Sanders: America must be prepared for when Trump refuses to leave office

[JoeOtterbein]

Politico

‘We need to alert the American people about what that nightmarish scenario might look like,’ the Vermont senator said.

By HOLLY OTTERBEIN

09/04/2020 05:59 PM EDT

Bernie Sanders fears President Donald Trump will refuse to leave office if he loses reelection and is calling on Congress and the media to take action to prepare for that scenario now, he said in an interview with POLITICO.

“This is not just idle speculation,” said Sanders, pointing to comments the president made at the GOP convention. “Trump was saying that the only way he could lose the election is if there was — let me get the exact quote — ‘the only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election.’ Now he is making that statement at a time when virtually every national poll has him behind.”

The Vermont senator said Trump also signaled the possibility of refusing to concede after defeat in a July interview with FOX News’ Chris Wallace, in which he was asked whether he would accept the election results. Trump said, "I have to see. Look, you — I have to see. No, I’m not going to just say yes. I’m not going to say no, and I didn’t last time, either.”

Trump has floated delaying the presidential election, and made false claims that mail ballots are fraudulent and that he lost the popular vote in 2016 because of ballots cast by millions of undocumented immigrants.

snip

more from the best political reporter everrrrr! at link

[TwilightZone]

1. Nope, it's a Trump pipe dream.

And we should really stop giving it attention.

[JoeOtterbein]

4. "be...

...prepared"

[sheshe2]

11. Be afraid?

Be very afraid?

This all should have been considered last go around in 2016.

Democratic votes matter.

I remember a quote back in 16. It doesn't matter who you vote for...it only matters that you voted. Loose quote, yet memories fade.

Fact is it does matter how you voted. This is how we got trump.

[soothsayer]

2. Well I don't think the military is going to help him now

[rzemanfl]

3. That's for sure. n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

9. The scary scenario is if he gets some red state legislature to buy his "stolen" shtick.

We could have a mess on our hands that could end up being decided by the President of The Senate - aka Mike Pence.


This was written in 2019. Very long but interesting.

I was looking for procedures for certifying a Presidential election and how fuck face might try to take advantage of an election night lead to claim victory.

This reads like a horror novel.

It’s long.

They lay out several scenarios. One scenario is a state with a Republican run legislature, like Pennsylvania, could certify a different set of results based on Trumps call to arms. This could send conflicting Elector counts to The Senate President. Mike Pence could conceivably be the arbiter of what Elector count to accept

Preparing for a Disputed Presidential Election: An Exercise in Election Risk Assessment and Management

Loyola University Chicago Law Journal
Volume 51
Issue 2 Winter 2019

https://lawecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2719&context=luclj

This Article considers the possibility that a major dispute over the outcome of the 2020 presidential election could arise, even without foreign interference or some other extraordinary event, but rather just from the ordinary process of counting ballots. Building upon previous research on the “blue shift” phenomenon, whereby adjustments in vote tallies during the canvassing of returns tends to advantage Democratic candidates, it is easy to imagine a dispute arising if this kind of “blue shift” were consequential in the presidential race. Using examples from both Pennsylvania and Arizona, two states susceptible to significant “blue shifts” in previous elections, the article shows how the dispute could reach Congress, where it potentially might metastasize into a full-fledged constitutional crisis. The most frightening scenario is where the dispute remains unresolved on January 20, 2021, the date for the inauguration of the new presidential term, and the military is uncertain as to who is entitled to receive the nuclear codes as commander-in-chief. In order to avoid this risk, Congress should amend the relevant statute, 3 U.S.C. § 15.

AXIOS piece on potential “blue shift” in this election.

[TheRealNorth]

13. I think this is the greatest danger as well.

As it has an air of constitutionality that would give excuse to Republicans in the Military and law enforcement.

Now, I don't know if each state has laws or constitutional rules as there may be state laws against state legislatures going rogue with regards to appointing a different set of electors from the candidate that was democratically elected. Of course, if that state's Supreme Court is owned by Republicans (like in WI), those statutes or Constitutional requirements could be moot as well.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

16. Yep. That article goes over several possibilities . Some states have contingency plans that go...

... to the legislature in the event of a dispute. Then to the Senate President Pence for counting.

[Tribetime]

10. Excellent point 👍

[W_HAMILTON]

5. You don't leave the office -- the office leaves you.

[struggle4progress]

6. Nobody has to pay attention if he says he's not leaving. And for anyone who tries to help him stay,

let us quote: Treason against the United States shall consist .. in levying war against them

Do they really think they could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?

[oasis]

7. "In like a lion, out like a lamb".

Coward Trump's crumbling before our very eyes. I'm not sweating a damn thing.

[sheshe2]

8. This has been discussed for months.

Okay.

[George II]

12. I can't believe this is even being discussed as a serious possibility.

[sheshe2]

15. IKR?

[George II]

18. I think Senator Sanders and the reporter should bone up on the United States Constitution...

When January 20, 2021 rolls around, if a new President hasn't been sworn in, Speaker Nancy Pelosi will assume the office of the Presidency.

Does trump REALLY want to be responsible for the first woman President?

[sheshe2]

20. "I think Senator Sanders and the reporter should bone up on the United States Constitution..."

True dat.

Does trump REALLY want to be responsible for the first woman President?

I don't think so.

[Sogo]

14. Nonsense.

Last edited Fri Sep 4, 2020, 11:53 PM - Edit history (1)

On January 20, 2021, a new President will be sworn in.

At that point, the Secret Service will remove any trespassers who might try to remain in the WH.

[sheshe2]

17. THIS

[brush]

22. Actually Jan. 20 at noon.

[Sogo]

23. Thanks. I corrected it.

I remember thinking "20" when I typed the post....

I need to go to bed!

[George II]

32. Yes. And if a winner between Biden and trump hasn't been determined, Speaker of the House...

...Nancy Pelosi will be sworn in as President, in accordance with the United States Constitution.

[kentuck]

19. Bernie may be on to something here!

Election Day should be changed to Election Season. They should attempt to have all the votes counted by the last week in November. But the USPS will need to be inspected and repaired before the November 3rd election. That will give Trump time to move out of the White House if the numbers come out against him? That would also give the House and Senate time to reach a compromise for governing. The new Congress would not take over until January 3rd, 2021. The Republicans will be given an ultimatum: They can either persuade Mr Trump to leave the People's House or they can agree to remove him by impeachment? Otherwise, they hold all accountability to remove the vagrant from the People's House.

(I doubt whether the Democratic or Republican leaders have given it much thought?)

[George II]

24. See post #18 - if a new President isn't determined by January 20, 2021, Nancy Pelosi becomes #46.

[GeorgiaPeanut]

21. A 6 month old story .. even DU's LBN won't allow it

but obviously Politico does.

[Gothmog]

25. There is a ton of legal talent gaming out situations

There was a conference call for LFB last week with 285 lawyers on the call. There are a ton of work being done to game out situations and scenarios

[lapucelle]

26. People have been talking about this possibility for months. It's good to know that LFB members

Last edited Sat Sep 5, 2020, 10:59 AM - Edit history (1)

are already working out scenarios and first steps, rather than just waking up to the potential problem. That's grassroots activism at its best.

*****************************************************************************************************

Here are links to relevant articles from June, July, and August.

Speaker Pelosi, Rep. Clyburn, and Senator Warren have already addressed the possibility.

Rep. Clyburn: Trump won't leave White House if he loses the election

https://www.axios.com/clyburn-trump-wont-leave-if-he-loses-election-7118712f-90db-4c68-a7fe-78ead3b5f384.html

Pelosi says Trump will be 'fumigated out' if he refuses to leave after White House loss

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-pelosi/pelosi-says-trump-will-be-fumigated-out-if-he-refuses-to-leave-after-white-house-loss-idUSKCN24L2DP

Warren calls for pledge of no deployment of federal agents on protesters if Trump refuses to leave office

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/509516-warren-calls-on-officials-to-pledge-not-to-deploy-agents-if-trump-refuses-to

What Could Happen If Donald Trump Rejects Electoral Defeat?

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-could-happen-if-donald-trump-rejects-electoral-defeat

If Trump loses and won't leave, it could get ugly

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/17/opinions/if-trump-loses-and-refuses-to-leave-callan/index.html

Trump Could Still Break Democracy’s Biggest Norm
Some of the president’s opponents fear that he’ll refuse to leave the White House if he loses the election. Here’s why.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/when-does-trump-leave-white-house/613060/

What If Trump Refuses to Leave?

https://atlanticsentinel.com/2020/08/what-if-trump-refuses-to-leave/

A new campaign is organizing people to fight back if Trump refuses to leave the White House

https://www.good.is/Politics/new-campaign-is-organizing-people-to-fight-back-if-trump-refuses-to-leave-the-white-house

What if Trump loses but won't leave?

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/cotterell/2020/08/01/what-if-trump-loses-but-wont-leave/5557023002/

Trump’s Upcoming Refusal to Leave Office: The Good News

https://verdict.justia.com/2020/06/24/trumps-upcoming-refusal-to-leave-office-the-good-news

What if Trump loses but refuses to leave office? Here's the worst-case scenario

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/27/trump-loses-election-what-happens-possibilities

OK, assume Trump loses and won't leave …

https://www.startribune.com/ok-assume-trump-loses-and-won-t-leave/571691592/

Trump’s assault on election integrity forces question: What would happen if he refused to accept a loss?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-assault-on-election-integrity-forces-question-what-would-happen-if-he-refused-to-accept-a-loss/2020/07/22/d2477150-caae-11ea-b0e3-d55bda07d66a_story.html

Fearing jail and facing defeat, Trump will not leave office quietly

https://www.salon.com/2020/07/16/fearing-jail-and-facing-defeat-trump-will-not-leave-office-quietly_partner/

[betsuni]

27. Thank you!

This has been a topic for a long time.

[NurseJackie]

28. LOL! This is ridiculous. Totally absurd.

Last edited Sat Sep 5, 2020, 09:34 AM - Edit history (1)

more from the best political reporter everrrrr! at link

This is ridiculous. Totally absurd. It doesn't matter if Trump voluntarily "concedes" or not. Anyone who knows how things work will realize this. When Biden is sworn-in on Jan 20th, he will be the President. Trump will either leave, or he'll be escorted out.

‘We need to alert the American people about what that nightmarish scenario might look like,’ the Vermont senator said.

Honestly, I fail to see what's "best" about this article. These fears have no basis in reality. The intrepid "reporter" fails to challenge the absurd premise and also fails to explain to readers how the US Constitution makes such fearmongering absurd.

What useful purpose does it serve? It's just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of fear and hopelessness and negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

Honestly, all I'm trying to say is that this makes as much sense to get people riled-up about this as it does to create panic about a "Fear the Walking Dead" zombie apocalypse. That's hardly the "best political reporting everrrrr".


(Me... after reading shitty articles like this one from Politico. "I need a drink, Roz!'')

[betsuni]

29. ...

[NurseJackie]

31. LOL! Oh, Joe... How absurd. Nobody forces me to do anything.

JoeOtterbein
30. Poor nurses like you. You work so hard then are forced to...
...drink by reporters.

Sad!

LOL! Oh, Joe... How absurd. Nobody forces me to do anything. This isn't about me. It's about the shitty reporting from Politico. I haven't said anything personally insulting about YOU... why do you think you have the right to personally insult me? Fact of the matter is this: I always drink responsibly... and I never drink-and-post at the same time.

[George II]

33. Bazinga!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

34. K&R

[Me.]

35. This Again?

Politico must be running out of dems in disarray stories

[notinkansas]

36. I still haven't heard of a solution to the 12th amendment scenario.

From https://buzzflash.com/articles/worst-fear-trump-constitutionally-could-remain-president-even-if-he-loses-popular-and-electoral-vote-thom-hartmann-explains

On its surface, the question seems silly—nobody who has lost both the popular vote and an uncontested Electoral College vote has ever gone on to become president, right?

Unfortunately, it’s wrong. The GOP has done this before, an action that included multiple threats of violence and bloodshed on the floor of Congress, leading Democrats to cave in even though their candidate won the popular vote and had 22 more electoral votes than the Republican (who became president).

Additionally, the Constitution says that if a presidential election really turns into a mess with multiple claims of fraud or some other crisis, the president is selected by the U.S. House of Representatives.

While that sounds like good news, with Democrats controlling the House today, each state’s delegation only gets one vote—50 votes from 50 states determine the president. And a majority of the states are Republican-controlled, so this remedy would put Trump into office regardless of how badly he lost the popular vote, the electoral vote, or both.

[Towlie]

37. Don't forget that whatever nightmarish scenario Trump plans, he'll get lots of help from Russia.

In fact, Putin might be the one planning it.