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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBob Woodward sat on this audiotape for 7 months
New Yorkers were planning Mass burials a month after this tape was made because they were running out of refrigerated trucks to handle the volume of bodies piling up.... and Bob Woodward thought he needed to sit on this another 6 months to help his book sales.
Trump is an amoral piece of shit who'd kill his own supporters if it would get him re-elected. He bragged about that 4 years ago. We knew that about him.
But I would have expected Bob Woodward to do something a little bit sooner because it would have saved lives.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,686 posts)Bucky
(54,005 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
brush
(53,776 posts)trump on Feb. 7 about being acquitted in the impeachment hearings and was surprised trump wanted to talk about covid, which at that time was seen by most, including Woodward, as a problem in China. He listened and recorded trump talking about how he had just spoken with Xi Jinping who told him that it was very serious and spread through the air but it was under control.
Woodward didn't know, and trump didn't share, that there was also a national security meeting in late January where trump was also alerted that covid was spreading in China and it was dangerous and had potential to arrive here. It wasn't until later on in May when Woodward found out about the January meeting that he realized what he had in the Feb. 7 recording. It was then that he sped up work on the book so it could be published as soon as possible before the election.
It sounds plausible as most people in Feb. had heard vaguely about a virus in China. I myself had flown to Phoenix on the 4th and came back on the 7th, not concerned yet about flying or mask wearing or social distancing.
BannonsLiver
(16,384 posts)So much god damn sanctimony.
TheBlackAdder
(28,193 posts).
I know right.
Everyone with half of a brain knew Trump was bullshit and mostly all of his followers would believe him over his own recording. There are a lot of revelations that came out that would never have come to light if Woodward spoke up earlier.
Deflecting to Woodward, as the scapegoat, does Trump and Russian troll bidding.
.
radius777
(3,635 posts)There's no way to impeach Trump, thus the only effective method of getting rid of Trump is what Woodward did, release it as a September surprise.
It was obvious that Trump was gaslighting the public about the virus, in order to prop up the stock market and secure his reelection.
Woodward's tape proves it but it was pretty clear this is what was going on.
Tribetime
(4,695 posts)radius777
(3,635 posts)do anything differently and there was no way to impeach him.
Trump would've simply gaslighted like he's doing now, and continued on with his 'downplaying' tactic while dogwhistling to his base that the virus is a hoax.
Tribetime
(4,695 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)Did this revelation made Trump supporters to all of the sudden wear mask? No.
Bucky
(54,005 posts)This could have accelerated the trend. This could have gotten just a few more people to take the precautions seriously at least.
Voting for Trump is a tragedy. But blowing the chance to wake someone up and possibly save their life is one also.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Numerous posts about this topic don't achieve anything other than to take blame off Trump.
Bucky
(54,005 posts)... that is what gave Trump political cover. 6 months of not having the conversation that he knew this all along was six extra months that all of us could have spent chipping away at more and more pro Trump denialism.
Imagine Rachel Maddow playing this tape over and over every couple of weeks. Imagine ABC, CBS, MSNBC, and maybe even Fox new shows making Republican senators squirm, and mass hating Republican governors face up to them carrying water for this liar.
Maybe the timing feels good for us a democrats, but Bob woodward, who is a Republican, sitting on this for the last 6 months has given a lot of Republican politicians time to run out the clock on an election when they're bleeding support.
But ultimately the real problem is, in a democracy people aren't supposed to make the decisions for you about what you deserve to know.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Imagining what could have happened does no good.
Bucky
(54,005 posts)I don't think it deters one person from turning against Trump to point out that Woodward sat on a story in a way that tactically helped Trump through the summer (inadvertently of course) and gave breathing room to the Republicans carrying water for Trump.
The fact that nothing can be done about it now doesn't mean I don't have the right to be outraged about it after the fact.
Of course I'm mad at Trump, but I've been living at him for the last 4 years. And I matter than hell at the Republicans who put their party interests above National Security for the same 4 years.
But I'm pretty damn sure I have the right to be mad at Bob Woodward for withholding damning information about Trump while people were dying and businesses were failing and families were being evicted.
raccoon
(31,110 posts)Pathwalker
(6,598 posts)Long live the murderous traitor!
Bucky
(54,005 posts)I just don't think failing to warn people, using Trump's own words, is an ethical way to do that.
Jetheels
(991 posts)doc03
(35,332 posts)said he was a low life, stupid, a Democrat and it was all lies. The right wing talking heads would have went on a full out attack discrediting everything he has ever wrote clear back to Nixon. I don't understand Trump lies and people attack the messenger.
Bucky
(54,005 posts)Moderate Republicans are jumping ship because of trump. This could have pushed more. Trump isn't doing his evil in isolation. This would have made more of those on-the-fence Republicans squirm a lot harder.
This would have been another cudgel to beat over Trump's head during the Democratic convention. His quotes could have been bumper stickers a lot sooner, and woken up more people a lot faster to the reality of Trump.
Knowledge is power, and Bob Woodward held the good guys back.
I agree. Look at how people are attacking Woodward now? Does anyone think they would have listened to him back then? He's not a doctor, he's not an expert. People only would have accused him of the same things they are accusing him of now.
Trump and the republicans would not have changed their behavior. They would have gone with exactly the same playbook and their cult would have followed them in exactly the same way. The media would have been acting out the same scenario and I doubt very much anything would have changed much. BECAUSE TRUMP WOULD NOT HAVE DONE ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY! He and Kushner and the rest of them wanted people to die. They wanted to blame the Democratic Governors and use this virus as a political wedge.
TRUMP was the president! He was the one with the power to change the response. Woodward could have screamed at the top of his lungs and I doubt very much it would have made one bit of difference. The same people who would have heeded his warnings are the same people who were likely to take it seriously back then. The media would have done a hatchet job on him and people would have been just as confused.
I don't think the guy (Woodward) is the most ethical person in the world, but I think his motives may have had more than just selling a book. Keep in mind that he did not have knowledge of how this virus was going to progress back then either. I just don't believe he was that prescient.
He is not an epidemiologist and did not have access to a fraction of the info that Trump did, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he did not know how devastating this disease would be at that point. He may just have held on to it as his "trump" card in case things got bad enough in order to expose Trump right before the election in order to finally get rid of him.
Trump sat on or denied the seriousness of the virus for how long?
Bucky
(54,005 posts)He's not doing it alone. The entire Republican establishment is enabling him. I want them gone too.
I don't know for a fact this tape has been released in April or may it would have saved that many lives.
Calculating how many lives you save by warning people is making decisions about who gets to be warned about a deadly situation. There's a reasonable chance Herman Cain would have gone to Tulsa without a mask anyway. An ethical person would have warned all of them, "Here's a tape of Trump admitting he's lying about how deadly the virus is just to get reelected."
If you have a capacity to give someone the chance to save their life, the chance to see they're being hoodwinked, as a human being you owe it to them.
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)but it looks like Trump had other priorities. I'm sure you can find out those other priorities without someone pointing them out for you. Because as you say, everyone knows Trump is a murderous POS.
I'm also sure you were pointing out to everyone the severity of the Covid-19 based on all the reporting in early February. I don't know one publication that was not reporting on Covid-19 in early February, everyone reading the news, or watching the news was aware. Why were more precautions not taken? Because as you say, everyone knows Trump is a murderous POS.
I guess we will never know, Monday morning quarterbacking and all.
I would also like to add, what is Trump doing now? There are cases surging all over the place, Trump knew it was airborne. What is Trump doing now?
still_one
(92,190 posts)Bucky
(54,005 posts)Response to Bucky (Reply #21)
still_one This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thekaspervote
(32,765 posts)Listened to a journalist??
Bucky
(54,005 posts)But it doesn't matter if they would have listened or not. You have a moral responsibility to warn people if you can wake them up.
I mean seriously,if you saw someone you disagreed with politically driving towards a cliff, would you warn them? I don't have to like someone in order don't use my voice to save their life.
The fact is you and I and Bob Woodward do not have the right to deny someone the information that could lessen this ongoing pandemic.
Saying "Oh but they would have ignored Trump's own words anyway" is lazy.
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)Trump had daily press briefing, why was it not stated daily that Covid-19 was airborne?
I guess we will never know what Trump knew and when did he know it.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)would anyone have listened to a journalist, especially when they thought he had a political ax to grind?
spanone
(135,831 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)Trump (and however many other people briefed) were informed early on and then Trump went and publicly lied.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)..in making sure that Bob Woodward stays spotless in this shit-cyclone.
Not sure why.
BannonsLiver
(16,384 posts)Give it a try sometime.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)Does not detract from the blame that rests on trumps shoulders.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
Bucky
(54,005 posts)over the last 6 months. I'm just thinking about the Republican governors who've been shillyshallying over masks and shutting down bars trying to explain away Trump's words while failing to protect their people.
If this revelation is the game changer that I hope that it is, I'm pretty mad that we didn't get these points on the board before the second half of the game, before 50,000 lives ago.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Pandemic is nowhere near over, in case you didn't notice.
Bucky
(54,005 posts)It takes a long time to turn around the ship, especially in a democracy when there's so many different oars in the water.
I don't know for a fact that having this information in April or May would have changed the big picture, but I do know the people Trump was misleading deserved to know this as soon as it could have become available.
I don't know if you've lost any friends or loved ones in this pandemic. But I have. A couple through their own a/o a family member's stupidity about the dangers. They didn't need to die, and playing politics and optimal political timing like this is playing with other peoples' lives.
samsingh
(17,598 posts)If it was really all that hopeless, we wouldn't have over 100 Republican public officials endorsing Joe Biden right now. Maybe it could have been 10 more, maybe could have been 100 more.
But it would have been six more months of people asking Republican governors why they're carrying water for Trump when -- in his own words -- he deliberately misled the public about the dangers that were taking American lives. I would have loved to see that question being asked for the last 6 months.
BannonsLiver
(16,384 posts)jorgevlorgan
(8,291 posts)than 9 months before the election when it would have been long forgotten by now.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)WE THE PEOPLE should have come FIRST
jorgevlorgan
(8,291 posts)It is having the effect of keeping the guy who did that from being re elected. If it were released 7 months ago, we would have forgotten it by now and it would have done squat at hurting Trump's re election. Look, I don't pretend to think Woodwards has anybody else's interest but his own at heart for anything, but the timing of this is far more helpful to the goal of making sure this never stops happening and never happens again -than not.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)ENOUGH ALREADY
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
*DONE HERE*
Bucky
(54,005 posts)Maybe Herman Cain would have died anyway. But how many people did Herman Cain pass the virus along to? How many lives would I save just a few more Republicans had worn masks? Just getting Trump to cave on that one's little stupidity would have saved lives.
jorgevlorgan
(8,291 posts)They re still spreading it. They are still defending him. Those people don't care about how he lies. But the timing of this release will convince more of his supporters who don't go to his rallies and are on the fence, to not vote for him. If this was released 7 months ago it would go the same way every other "bombshell" did: quickly forgotten in the media news cycle
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)IMPEACH Trump for lying DAILY that this was "all going away, like a miracle"
WE THE PEOPLE should have come FIRST. IMPEACH Trump.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)which makes it all the more sickening that others are not stepping forward
SHAME ON THEM ALL
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)We MUST HOLD Trump ACCOUNTABLE!!!! Don't you see we have the TAPES, the TAPES!!!!
We MUST IMPEACH, get Pelosi on the phone we have the TAPES!!!!
No waiting for the election, WE MUST IMPEACH, NOW!!!!
Skittles
(153,160 posts)NOTHING WILL CHANGE WITH THESE REPUKES, NOTHING
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)THEY ARE INVULNERABLE!!!! Woodward coming forward at any point BEFORE TODAY will make no difference in holding Trump accountable.
The only remedy we have besides impeachment is VOTING THE MFers OUT.
NO other way to remove the turds from the punchbowl.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)doing nothing is NOT AN OPTION when people are dying
over and OUT
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)WE MUST VOTE. THAT is the ONLY voice we have left.
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)to tell us all what he knows. Get the Trump tapes in the Congressional record.
Even if we don't start an impeachment hearing there are a lot of things Congress can do to prevent future presidents from committing the same failures and lying to the public as Trump has.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)no one has any freaking honor, no one seems willing to really put country first
BannonsLiver
(16,384 posts)Skittles
(153,160 posts)DONE HERE
Response to Bucky (Original post)
Skittles This message was self-deleted by its author.
Marie Marie
(9,999 posts)He did his job. Battling Covid is Trump's responsibility. He did not do his job. JMHO.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)that is sickening
Bucky
(54,005 posts)But if Trump's central sin in this is not warning people about how deadly and contagious this disease was when he had the duty and moral obligation to do so, surely the job of the press is to bring evidence of this wrongdoing in front of the public as soon as they can. Especially when lives are at stake.
If the firefighters aren't putting out a house fire, that doesn't justify me quietly standing at the corner and watching it burn. I can at least warn the residents. I can at least give them the information they need to decide what's best for themselves.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Really?
Skittles
(153,160 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)ON TAPE !!!! Dont you get it??? It will STICK THIS TIME!!!!
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Republican Senate won't convict him, no matter what.
ahoysrcsm
(787 posts)Witnesses must be called, impeachment must happen. We have the TAPES!!!! Damn the election, we must hold Trump accountable for his LIES!!!!
And, if I have to go back and add /sarcasm to all my posts. You can't see the forest for the trees, the exclamation points should be the give away!!!!
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)or yelled from the rooftops how Covid is a nothing burger. They are to blame.
Stop with blaming the journalists.
tinrobot
(10,899 posts)It is my understanding that there were something like 18 interviews on tape. In those, Trump incriminated himself on a lot more than just the virus response. Because of that, the book is incredibly damaging in multiple ways.
If Woodward had published in March, Trump would have shut up. As a reporter, Woodward did the right thing by letting him talk ad-infinitum.
Bucky
(54,005 posts)Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think politics comes before human lives and public safety.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Pandemic could very well get worse going into the winter months.
Did the tape change anything that Trump is doing? Yet you are arguing it would have changed things if it was released earlier? Well, we are still in the middle of the freaking pandemic and it might get worse.
Bucky
(54,005 posts)Trump doesn't act alone. He has circles of enablers, toadies, and water bearers.
And in case you didn't notice from the dozens of Republican officials supporting Joe Biden, Trump's lies and deceptions do have a cumulative effect.
But as I've discovered over the course of this discussion thread, my real complaint is that people who deserved to be warned with this fairly damning evidence didn't get warned about those tapes, because Woodward wanted to sit on the story till the "right moment".
So I respect your right to be cynical about human nature and assume it wouldn't have saved any lives. It's certainly more dramatic with the news coming out 8 weeks away from the election.
I'm at about a lot of things and I don't like Bob Woodward giving Trump's enablers even temporary comfort and shelter. If it had been a couple of months, it wouldn't bother me so much. A reporter needs to get the story right. I just don't think the 6 months (counting from the March "I wanted to play it down quote" is justifiable.
tinrobot
(10,899 posts)At the time of the interviews, Woodward didn't know what Trump was going to say in the next interview. So, does he cut him off from admitting all of these things and publish early, or does he let him keep talking? The good reporter lets him talk. You never know what your subject will say next.
Bucky
(54,005 posts)But by the March quotes, Trump had connected all the dots in his own words. There's nothing really explosive after that. There'd be no loss to this story's impact if it'd come out in early April, after Woodward did his due diligence as a journalist. It would have given us an additional 5-6 months of chipping away at Trump's base... and additional 5-6 months of making Republican governors squirm to justify reopening over the summer, which is when the death toll really started to climb.
What you're using as a justification for Woodward's silence is that it was worth it for him to trade other people's health and lives for his own personal access to the White House. That's not a very strong argument.
Caliman73
(11,738 posts)Let's yell at the guy interviewing the "leader of the free world" instead of focusing our ire at the actual guy who failed to do anything with all the information at his disposal.
That will help the situation.
Bucky
(54,005 posts).
I don't know for a fact that having this information in April or May would have changed the big picture, but I do know the people Trump was misleading deserved to know this as soon as it could have become available.
I don't know if you've lost any friends or loved ones in this pandemic. But I have. A couple through their own a/o a family member's stupidity about the dangers. They didn't need to die, and playing politics and optimal political timing like this is playing with other peoples' lives.
So yeah, if someone gets hurt through their own stupidity and some stranger could have warned them, could have made the case a little stronger, but didn't, I'm going to be pissed at that stranger. They did a shitty thing
The whole reason I'm a Democrat is because I think I am my brother's keeper.
Caliman73
(11,738 posts)Woodward is not pristine, but this focus on "why didn't he?" let's the real responsible parties point the finger at him.
There is going to be a great deal of soul searching after we are out of this danger. We can have our reckoning then.
Whether I have lost anyone to the pandemic or not, I understand loss and anger. I also know that anger and hurt tends to blind people and make them susceptible to misplacing responsibility.
This pandemic did not start in January or February, it started earlier and remember that Trump was bragging about taking out the Pandemic Response Team in 2018. Think about how having people on the ground in Wuhan could have made a difference, then think about Woodward.
I am sorry for your loss. Use your anger and hurt on the right people.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Do you really think Trump was the only person briefed? Frankly many of us figured out this was very serious just based on public reports coming out of China.
Why blame a reporter for something known to many people, including those in positions of power in US government?
Sewa
(1,255 posts)That doesnt jibe with the info was out there.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)When we were told not to wear masks, it was not for our benefit, but a way to make us not to purchase whatever PPE was out there.
People are still being told to wear homemade masks and not actual PPE (N95s). Do you think we are being told that because it's actually good for us, or because we still have a shortage of N95 masks?
Considering studies show that N95s work best in both preventing droplets from going out and coming in, the answer is clear to me.
BannonsLiver
(16,384 posts)JI7
(89,249 posts)even now after we know and have huge number of deaths and cases they still aren't doing anything.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I can't believe the people who aren't placing the blame square in the laps of Trump and the republicans. They are 100% responsible. Period. They have been all along and they still are.
Have they done one damn thing to make things any better? No. The pandemic is still out of control and they still have no plan except to try to find a way how to do away with Social Security and Medicare and to steal the election. Too many people here focus on the wrong things.
JI7
(89,249 posts)tenderfoot
(8,431 posts)They're the problem.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I know of at least one other person who posted this who was also attacked.
I cant believe these long time DUers are getting so upset over this. I too have questioned Woodwards actions. It doesnt mean I think hes an enemy. It just means I would like to hear from him why he watched 200,000 people die while Trump actively worked against doing anything about the pandemic to stop the deaths.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)If he had spoken up though, he would have had to disclose the tape recording, which would have jeopardized any further tapings for his book. The result would be that we wouldnt have the usual explosive information which is contained in the book. Woodwards entire life has been about exposing Presidential wrongdoing and he and Bernstein did the world a huge favor by exposing Nixon. He hasnt played favorites either.
Perhaps in a historical sense this book may be important in its impact on Trump and the country. But theimpact of exposing Trump based on one tape is probably negligible. Perhaps Woodward sensed this. It could be a reason since so many things that would have ruined any other politician havent come anywhere near touching Trump.
Bluesaph
(703 posts)And in late March/early May we knew Trump had been briefed about the virus back in November. None of this is news to me.
The news is the tape. Thats it. And Woodward is not responsible. Trump is. Stop helping Trump.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)Demonaut
(8,915 posts)Certainly it takes no blame away from dump and his enablers to say this although it is not a popular thing to say here currently. Anyone who knew anything should have made it public. I believe others knew from early briefings as well how bad it could be. Lives would have been saved with more info leaking.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)moondust
(19,981 posts)Others behind the scenes may have known about all the lies and deception at some point and they share the blame for not coming forward. Without a tape, though, their story would have been dismissed by many as "fake news."
Woodward, on the other hand, had Dumbo on tape admitting early on that he knew it was very serious. I don't know how Woodward could sit by for months and watch the daily flood of lies, deception, and dereliction costing tens of thousands of lives and not understand that releasing the incriminating tape could potentially save thousands.
TeamPooka
(24,225 posts)How will Trump change? What will Republicans do now?
You really think this changes how Trump handles the virus now or then?
I wish Woodward had sat on it until Oct 12th.
This will blow over too quick.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)tape is really going to change things. Oh wait...
whistler162
(11,155 posts)what we already knew? Other than Trump vocalizing the knowledge it changes nothing.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)that's a DISTRACTION.....we can't "blame it all on Woodward" - OMFG
rockfordfile
(8,702 posts)Bucky
(54,005 posts)Go home, troll
Sogo
(4,986 posts)Congress had already impeached the MOFO.
Do you think the MOFO would have changed his ways?
IMHO, it's all on Trump, not Woodward.....
Bucky
(54,005 posts)I for one would have loved to read another four months of this sort of story chipping away at Republican morale, enthusiasm, political fundraising, and hypocrisy.
https://www.salon.com/2020/09/12/donald-trumps-fatal-flaw-of-his-many-defects-bob-woodward-may-have-identified-the-worst/
Who could have done anything? The people who weren't wearing masks and social distancing could have. The Republican enablers who were denying the existance or threat of the virus could have figured out they need to at least shut up and keep their paranoia to themselves--especially those who were advising Republican governors across the Sun Belt on how to navigate this crisis.
The Dunning Kruger effect is a thick layer of armor built around Trump's incompetence and veniality. We need all the weapons we can muster. This story is a strong sword. I would like to have had it sooner. Turning people around from their chosen ignorance is a slow process, like turning the Titanic around from its trajectory.
Don't forget that every time a Trumper wakes up, the first thing they do is put on a mask. An earlier release would have saved lives. At the end of the day, Woodward prized his access to Trump over those lives. Of course we can never know the exact number. But seriously, why haven't YOU personally stayed silent about the danger Trump presents to the republic? Why haven't you waited until a more politically dramatic moment to denounce his recklessness and thievery?
I think it's because you do know that an ethical person knows they have an obligation to warn people about the dangers they're in, even if they doubt the potential victims won't take the warning seriously. You owe that to your fellow human beings.