If You Care About the Court, Don't Talk About It - The Atlantic

[DonaldsRump]

I don't particularly like the notion of "giving up on RBG's seat". However, there is a greater issue here, and it's possible the Rs will self-destruct on this if they rush it.

If I were Joe, Kamala, Nancy, Chuck et al, I would bash the Reputincan hypocrisy on this vs. Merrick Garland.

Fixating on the open Supreme Court seat will provoke a culture war.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/dont-make-the-election-about-the-court/616417/

[radius777]

1. This is fearful and outdated thinking.

RBG is so universally admired because of her appeal for a more just society - which anyone can relate to. Biden's Philly speech on Sunday did just that, linked all of the issues together (including jobs, healthcare and covid).

The idea that we would just roll over and not talk about this would only send the signal to voters that we're weak and afraid.

[DonaldsRump]

2. RBG cannot be the focus of this election

That's the point of the article: it will take away from the many, many easier ways to slam Trump. Keeping this going on the hypocrisy is good enough for now. The Rs have already lost 2 votes, at least until November 3.

No one is saying "roll over" except you. The point is that it cannot become the focus of the election, as it is a muddier issue than Covid-19 etc.

Neither is it "outdated" as you say: the same thing happened with Brett Kavanaugh and some Senate races (e.g, MO, TN) turned, to a degree, on this issue in November 2018. We cannot let that happen in November 2020. RBG is not universally loved by Rs.

The fact of the matter is that they can run this through without Ds. We already have at least 2 R senators expressing some modicum of cold feet, at least until November 3. Let the Rs self-destruct on this.

[radius777]

5. Biden's speech managed to do all you talk about.

He spoke of RBG and what she meant for justice, the Republican hypocrisy and breaking of democratic norms, while at the same time speaking of what SCOTUS means for healthcare and workers' rights.

Basically we should fight for both issues, put pressure on Repubs so they don't ram through some RW justice, and then Biden wins and appoints RBG's successor.

Another flaw in the article is that it's not only 'liberal enclaves' with a stake in this - the soccer moms and moderates generally are culturally liberal and pro-choice - and they're the ones who drove the 2018 blue wave.

[Cha]

6. TY for the summary of Biden's Speech. I think

Joe Biden should also make very Clear that trump plans on doing away with our Social Security, too.

[DonaldsRump]

7. The other thing

Let's see who the Fat Boy nominates. That person needs to check out in a background investigation. That could greatly change the dynamics. I hope the oppo research team for the Ds goes into overdrive in vetting this appointment.

The problem with the Kavanaugh "investigation" was that the allegations, as horrible as they were, were older. There was clearly no investigation, since the Rs controlled everything related to the SCOTUS appointment, as they do today. It made us look weak and petty, which was of course how the Rs designed to be.

Trump was able to use this as a wedge issue to gain enough Senate seats that led to the complete disaster since November 2018. I literally saw the well-liked 2 term D governor of Tennessee Phil Bredesen miscalculate on the Kavanaugh issue. He was leading against the truly awful Marsha Blackburn around the time of the Kavanaugh "investigation". When asked, he said he didn't think there was enough to reject Kavanaugh's appointment. That cost him dearly with D voters in liberal cities like Nashville and Memphis. That was a seat we could have picked up, but now we are stuck for six years with "Senator" Blackburn.

An over-fixation on RBG just now is what I am saying should be avoided. It is, of course, a crucial issue. My limited point, and the point of the article, is that it cannot become the central point of this election. It can be A POINT, but not the MAIN point (the women's rights issues and pro-choice, for example, cannot be ignored by Joe and Kamala).

It's too polarizing and gives Trump an issue he shouldn't have to divide us. We just need to tread a bit carefully with it.

Now, however, if the Trump appointee has recently done something bad....well, that's a different issue!

[radius777]

12. I believe it will be Amy Coney Barrett.

R's would put her up to attempt to trap Dems/Biden into appearing anti-Catholic (she's a far-right Catholic) but we're much smarter than that.

Agree to some extent on Kavanaugh as to some people what he did seemed to some like 'drunken mistakes' while partying in college, etc. But this is a vastly different situation to Kavanaugh hearings, which is more about RW hypocrisy and abuse of power, especially while dancing on the grave of an icon like RBG.

Listen to the entire Biden speech, you'll get a feel for how he and Dems are going to approach this, which I think is brilliant. RBG and women's rights are one point - but he turns his focus squarely on kitchen table issues like healthcare, jobs, the pandemic and the overall chaos and division Trump creates - and how the GOP abuse of norms further 'drives us into the abyss'. That is where the article goes wrong, thinking that somehow 'the Supreme Court', 'liberal issues' and 'real issues' are all different things.

[DonaldsRump]

14. I'm thinking Barbara Lagoa

Who is of Cuban descent and from Florida. I would be sure Trump wants to score points here. Apparently, evangelicals like her too, so that allows him to shore up that part of his base.

I'll listen to Joe's speech. It's all about balance, and if he is striking that, it's fine. Thanks for posting.

On edit:

Lagoa's husband was Charlie Crist's counsel when he was governor of FL. Her father in law was appointed as federal district judge by Clinton. Perhaps wishful thinking, but maybe she's not an off the meter RWNJ?

[gab13by13]

10. Too bad Dems don't control the narrative,

look how quickly Trump's bashing of the military fell off the table. Trump controls the narrative with the help of the MSM.

Dems can do as you suggest but there is nothing to debate, Republicans lied and are hypocrites, so what, we already know that, it's already baked in. Republicans don't run on their records, they run by throwing dirt at Democrats.

[DonaldsRump]

4. Don't get me wrong

I am appalled at the hypocrisy at play here, and I am devastated that our beloved RBG is gone, at least physically, from us.

But the idea is to win the election at all levels resoundingly. We will then be able to get things sorted after January 20, 2021. The fact of the matter is that the Rs can force this through and we can't stop them. Let them stop themselves, which is destructive in its own right, and let the righteous outrage at the hypocrisy grow.

That helps us greatly to achieve big wins on November 3 and then reverse some of this on January 3 and January 20, 2021.

[dixiechiken1]

13. THIS.

The fact of the matter is that the Rs can force this through and we can't stop them.

I would take it a step further - not only can they force this through, they will force this through. One need only look at what McConnell has prioritized above all else these past 3-1/2 years: judicial appointments. And to have an opportunity to ram through yet another SCOTUS appointment? HELL. YES. No way is this not going to happen. This is not being pessimistic, this is being realistic.

But the idea is to win the election at all levels resoundingly. We will then be able to get things sorted after January 20, 2021.

THIS. Exactly this. We use the hypocrisy of the Rs to stoke the outrage. We GOTV. Then - THEN - once we control the House, the Senate and the White House, we keep up the pressure on our elected officials to right the many, many wrongs we have suffered. And we have to be as ruthless as the Rs in doing so as we can only safely count on having two years to do it.

[druidity33]

3. K&R, some good points. nt.

[xfreedom2020]

8. Seems unlikely

that confirmation hearings for a scotus nominee will even begin prior to the election only weeks away

[DonaldsRump]

9. Not so sure about that.

I think they are going to try to draw the Ds into a trap. They are quickly running out of time, and they are going to do everything they can to use this to polarize folk.

[PurgedVoter]

11. Remember when the Supreme Court Stole the Election for Bush?

I would not be complacent on this issue. We know that Republicans are cheats, liars and thieves. Remember when corporations became people with zero precedent or logic involved? We know that Republicans are cheats, liars and thieves.

After years of watching things go by while pundits advised us to be silent or become Republican light I find arguments like this very disturbing. There is already a culture war going on. Armed vigilantes are being given free rein to terrorize communities and disrupt peaceful protests.

You can expect the evangelical hoards to start screaming pro life no matter what happens. That is one of the cards in their hand and they are certain to play it. We need to be ready to ask them where they were when children started to be put in cages and given inadequate medical care.

[Pobeka]

15. k/r. Well written, and excellent points. It's the coronavirus election.

Get the votes, that's the first hurdle. We do that by keeping R's minds off their tribal instinct and seeing the how the POTUS threatens their lives every day.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. "Provoke" a culture war? Are we...not already in one?

[Pobeka]

17. Rekicking this, I think it's important an a worthy consideration today. n/t