How Trump will steal the election in a perfectly legal manner and why you can't do anything about it

[DetlefK]

TL;DR The US has an antiquated fucked-up political system full of ridiculous legal and constitutional loopholes.





Step 1:
Put another republican judge on SCOTUS. The congressional Democrats have no procedural or legal tool with which to stop him. Because, while seating Gorsuch was blatantly unconstitutional, ramming through a replacement for Ginsburg is not.

Step 2:
This will fire up the democratic voter-base. The Republicans lose bigly at the polls.

Step 3:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_2:_Method_of_choosing_electors

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

In the states that are ruled by a republican majority, and which are at the danger of electing Biden, the republican legislature will simply declare that THEY give all the electoral votes to Trump, popular vote be damned.

Step 4:
The Democrats raise a fuzz and the republican SCOTUS declares that all is fine and dandy. Trump wins.




What follows is 4 more years of Trumpian chaos, as he controls White House and SCOTUS while the Democrats control Congress.

[superpatriotman]

1. So now what?

Florida will give their votes to hair furor, but I will vote anyways. What to do?

[Roland99]

2. Forbes article on this:

Report: Trump Campaign Actively Discussing Radical Measures To Bypass Election Results
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/23/report-trump-campaign-actively-discussing-radical-measures-to-bypass-election-results/#6fb91cc24800

A jarring new report from The Atlantic claims that the Trump campaign is discussing potential strategies to circumvent the results of the 2020 election, should Joe Biden defeat Donald Trump, by first alleging the existence of rampant fraud and then appointing electors in battleground states where Republicans maintain a legislative majority, whom Trump would ask to bypass the state’s popular vote and instead to choose electors loyal to the GOP and the sitting president.

The Atlantic report claims that sources in the Republican Party at the local and national levels confirm “the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors” in red battleground states.

“The push to appoint electors would be framed in terms of protecting the people’s will,” an unnamed Trump-campaign legal adviser tells The Atlantic, adding, “The state legislatures will say, ‘All right, we’ve been given this constitutional power. We don’t think the results of our own state are accurate, so here’s our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state.’”

The chairman of the Pennsylvania Republican Party says, on the record, that he has discussed appointing loyal electors with the Trump campaign: "It is one of the available legal options set forth in the Constitution.”

OMG!

[FelineOverlord]

3. How Trump will steal the election in a perfectly legal manner and why you can't do anything about

I will NEVER accept 4 more years of Trump.

NEVER.

They try that crap, it will get ugly.

We will NEVER just accept it.

Trump will lose in the end.

[world wide wally]

24. America loses in the end...

Permanently

[Fullduplexxx]

4. Take enough of congress and trump will get nothing done

That being said why do people feel the need to post this doom and gloom crap . Is it just so if it happens they can point to it and see lookit i told you? And there nothing you can do about it so you might as well stay home.. i dont get it

[skip fox]

39. But

I don't think it can hurt to know. If people suspect this will occur they may stay home, you're right, but it gives Democratic lawyers working for us a heads up and they might well think of ways to circumvent this.

Generally I'm for freedom of knowledge and freedom of speech.

[Thekaspervote]

5. This is at least the 6th time this has been posted and it gets more ridiculous each time

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/07/14/supreme-courts-faithless-electors-decision-validates-case-for-the-national-popular-vote-interstate-compact/

[Mike 03]

10. Thanks for posting this.

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. It's not really about faithless electors, but competing slates of electors

Biden electors aren’t going to flip to Trump, but GOP legislators could attempt to appoint a competing slate.

[YessirAtsaFact]

22. Each state has a law or laws laying it's method for selecting electors

You can't just throw that out because Trump gets a bunch of rednecks riled up and bullying people. If Biden gets the most votes in a state, he will get the electors.

[Thekaspervote]

23. I realize it isn't about faithless electors.

Here’s where this issue is addressed by the SCOTUS in July of this year!


And second, the Court’s decision reinforces the validity of the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Under National Popular Vote, states that combine for at least 270 electoral votes agree to award their electors to the presidential candidate who wins the most individual votes across the nation. (Fifteen states and the District of Columbia, totaling 196 electoral votes, have already passed the measure.)

In the 18 states currently without faithless elector laws, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact would operate in a manner identical to the system that they have been using for over 200 years. In these states (which currently use the state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes), the presidential electors are chosen by the political party whose presidential candidate receives the most popular votes inside the state, and there are no additional requirements placed upon the elector.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/07/14/supreme-courts-faithless-electors-decision-validates-case-for-the-national-popular-vote-interstate-compact/

[Rule of Claw]

6. It simply isn't remotely possible

The guy in PA can dream all he wants-no court, none, zero, nada, is going to allow the legislatures to change the rules of the game AFTER THE GAME has been played.

Not happening.

[DetlefK]

51. Oh, you are so cute! Still believing that a politicized SCOTUS wouldn't play politics.

How do we know that SCOTUS has been politicized? Because 20 or 10 years ago it was inconceivable to view SCOTUS as held by republican judges and democratic judges. They were simply "judges".

You don't even realize how much George W. Bush's faux patriotism, the Tea Party and Trump have radicalized US society against each other.

[radius777]

63. +1. GOP/Trump will do anything to stay in power

and if legal and Constitutional loopholes give them the chance to do it they will. The SCOTUS is 5-3 conservative even without the new justice. The GOP has assembled an army of lawyers to work this, as most of the mail-in votes will be Dem and they are looking for ways to invalidate such votes on technicalities. The Atlantic article is eye opening as it exposes flaws in our thinking about this topic. Institutions and norms didn't save us from Trump being 'elected' and they won't necessarily save us from him being 'reelected'.

[Yavin4]

7. Won't ever happen.

At least not in that way. I don't see state legislators putting their careers and their lives on the line for Trump. I don't see it. Why would some random PA state legislator do this for Trump? What would they gain?

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. You left out several important details

Including if GOP legislators attempt to send a slate of electors contrary to the popular vote, the state’s Democratic Governor/SOS (In the case of most rust belt states) can certify the official results and appoint electors according to the laws that existed on Election Day. If Dems Control both house and senate, then they can choose which slate to accept/reject.

Also, this would have to happen in multiple 2016 Trump states that flip to Biden.

To think this could happen in a vacuum, without protest from millions and negative coverage from the media, is delusional.

[FBaggins]

9. That's pretty far fetched

It would have to be ALL of AZ/FL/NC/PA (and republicans do control those legislatures).

The problem is that "as the Legislature thereof may direct" isn't "whatever they feel at the moment". All of those legislatures already "directed" through legislation. Legislation that they can't change without the governors' signatures (democrats in NC/PA).

[Thekaspervote]

18. Dem governors in WI, MN & MI as well

[beachbumbob]

12. I highly doubt this will happen and if it does, democracy is over and its not going end on a whimper

even conservative judges can have a moral and LEGAL center not ruled by ideology.

[Thekaspervote]

15. This

[beachbumbob]

43. the rush to fascism will not go unchallenge at any level, if this is GOP wants,

[ace3csusm]

13. Yea this wont fly if it tired

I think independent voters would all abandoned the republican party, i cannt think of when this was last used and many will view it as a start of authoritarian government ... if its done you may finally see who true Americans are...

[Thekaspervote]

14. Electors are chosen by their perspective party's. Not by legislators

Where do you get this nonsense

Review the link in post 5

And please, could you at least state this is your opinion and not mix up partial facts with what you think will happen

[radius777]

62. Bush v. Gore asserted that the Constitution gives state legislatures

the final authority in selecting the slate of electors if the legislature feels the official vote can't be trusted or is somehow in doubt.

If you read the Atlantic article several ugly scenarios are possible, knowing what Trump/Barr/GOP are capable of at this point.

As the OP correctly points out, our system is rickety and the Constitution does not spell out or much less guarantee a fair election (based on the will of the people) or peaceful transition of power. Much of what we view as a 'normal election' is based upon custom.

[cayugafalls]

16. Nice try. Next.

[vercetti2021]

17. Jesus Christ

Why every fucking day is like another like one of these pops up

[Thekaspervote]

19. If you find an answer would you share it...please!

[vercetti2021]

21. I wish I could

My mind is boggled by the amount showing up. Like if Biden pops over 300. You won't be able to throw out multiple states...like be real people

[StarfishSaver]

56. I know the answer

I think you do, too.

I'm just amazed that anyone is falling for this crap this time around. Or maybe they're not falling for it themselves but on a mission and expecting us to.

[Kitchari]

20. No

Not going to happen

[world wide wally]

25. I see Trump using the courts to appeal every decision until he gets it to his stacked

Supreme Court.
Republicans won't mind because they won't have to deal with those pesky little elections anymore.

[doc03]

26. So we don't even bother to vote. He will be

sure to win then.

[Kaleva]

27. Repubs in Michigan legislature don't have the votes to override Whitmer's sure veto.

[BannonsLiver]

28. Alternate headline: "Give up everyone. Don't vote. Your efforts don't matter."

My ignore list runneth over.

[TeamPooka]

29. The revolution in the streets will be a sight to see, and be part of.

[budkin]

30. If he tried that shit the majority of the nation would riot

We would remove him ourselves.

[Dan]

31. Americans can't do anything about it - if we choose to accept it.

That is true...

[treestar]

32. The right has us running around with hair on fire

about this, when we don't know all of state laws. What state would allow its popular vote to become completely irrelevant and let the legislature choose?

This is the media allowing Dotard to make issues where there are none. Dotard makes an outrageous assertion and people take it seriously and run around thinking about it.

[flamingdem]

33. Best to keep the focus on the GOP killing of over 200k Americans

That's a fact, not speculation.

[Kaleva]

34. Only the people who want to run around with their hair on fire are doing so.

The rest of us choose not to waste our time doing that.

[BGBD]

35. Sounds to me

like the dream of one nutty dude in PA.

Republicans want to win, but I dont think they would openly try to subvert the election amin such an obvious manner.

It would start a real, honest to God, war.

[creeksneakers2]

44. It already almost happened

In 2000 the GOP in Florida's legislature vowed that if by votes or by court decision Gore was named the winner of FL they were still going to give the electors to Bush. In Bush v. Gore the Supreme Court said they could do it. I was amazed that the there was so little complaint about it. Republicans have no souls and you can't put this past them. If war breaks out they'll win because they all have guns and are willing to use them.

[BGBD]

47. They don't have anywhere close

to all the guns.

[creeksneakers2]

50. They have way more than we do.

[blm]

36. My gut tells me Roberts is not keen on ushering in King MobBoss the First.

[ProfessorGAC]

37. This Is Getting Tedious

There may be arcana in the laws that make this a greater than zero probability, but as a practical matter it won't occur.
It would require a conspiracy of epic proportions, including state legislators who have nothing to gain and everything to lose.
We need to dump this CT into a landfill, where it belongs.
Just because they're planning it, doesn't mean they can do it.
We've got plenty of evidence that, aside from the unneeded tax cuts, nothing they plan works out.
Geez, the whole administration was an accident. Even THEY didn't expect to win!

[roamer65]

38. Colorado, 1876.

Colorado had just become a state earlier that year and decided “they didn’t have the time” to setup an election. Why bother with a “messy” election when we Repukes can just appoint them ourselves?
So they, of course, appoint the Repuke electors via their state legislature. The 3 EV’s were the winning margin for a hotly contested election where Hayes was given a 1 EV vote win by a Congressional commission.

[Chainfire]

40. If the worst case predictions came true

we would have no choice but to throw the tea in the harbor.

[jorgevlorgan]

41. If Biden wins by just one state, that is a possibility. But even then they would need the votes

It is hard to imagine enough people would risk their careers for the purpose of overriding democracy.



Not just that, but we are close to flipping the Florida legislature. The new legislature swears in the day after the election. If that were the case -even if Biden loses FL, we can cancel out PA by doing the same there.


Also the new legislative session in PA is on the first of December, but they are sworn in in January. If we flip PA, I don't know if Democrats would be in charge to appoint electors or not before the electoral college casts their votes.

[jmowreader]

42. One minor problem with this scenario

Republican state legislators aren't insane enough to try it.

State legislators are generally seated for two-year terms. If a state legislature tells the voters, "we don't care who you voted for, we're putting Trump back in office," the voters WILL clean house in two years.

Remember my First Rule of Politics: An elected official's first loyalty is to his seat. I do not believe there is any feasible scenario that would result in a state legislator endangering his seat to put that worthless fuck back in office against the will of the people.

Besides, President 021 has got a bevy of lawyers, and lawyers can file continuances, objections and procedural meddling designed to ensure Trump never has to spend a day in a courtroom. The broke-dick fuck will spend the rest of his miserable life giving speeches to his flock and playing golf.

[creeksneakers2]

45. The GOP rank and file would all support the coup.

Trump would tell them that its just a restoration of what was supposed to happen but was circumvented by fraud. Republicans always believe the narrative they are given. State legislators would lose nearly zero GOP votes.

[Demsrule86]

54. It won't happen.

[radius777]

64. Agree, nobody ever thought the GOP would fall in lockstep behind Trump,

who was supposedly an abberation (he's not) to what their party is. Trump's approval rating amongst Repub voters has held steady despite all of his obvious lawbreaking. They will go along to get what they want, and care little about democracy. And for us to believe that institutional norms will protect us (they have not to this point) is naive.

[StarfishSaver]

57. Exactly

State legislators are very different than House Members and Senators. They are closer to, more dependent upon and responsive to their constituents a
and considerably more susceptible to pressure from home.

This doomsday scenario is just stupid and, I am quite certain, being sowed by Republicans, trolls, and hostile foreign entities to intimidate, demoralize and de-stabilize Democrats. It's pretty interesting to see people spreading it around on a Democratic website.

[Volaris]

46. And step 5 will likley be that he gets impeached again by valentine's day,

And pence as well for good measure.

If Dems control the Congress, he can screech which hunt all he wants, and the SC cant do shit about it.

[MoonlitKnight]

48. Please stop this nonsense

Congress ultimately decides if they will accept a state’s electoral votes. And it is the new Congress not the outgoing one.

If anything, Democrats could wrest the Presidency away if they win the House and Senate and want to give the Republicans a taste of their own medicine.

[onenote]

49. First, seating Gorsuch was not blatantly unconstitutional And Second, the state legislatures already

have enacted laws that govern how electors are chosen.

Was blocking Garland despicable? Absolutely. Unconstitutional? No. So seating Gorsuch wasn't unconstitutional either.

And the state legislatures have decided how electors are to be chosen by passing laws -- laws that would have to be changed by enacting another law. Among the many problems that legislatures would face: overcoming a veto by a Democratic governor (for example, the governor of Pennsylvania). Also, issues regarding retroactive lawmaking.

[dansolo]

53. Blocking Garland was unconstitutional

Mitch McConnell declared that a Supreme Court Justice couldn't be seated in the last year of a President's term. That was the unconstitutional part. The Senate could have had hearings and blocked him in committee. Or even voted him down in the full Senate.
But by refusing to even have a hearing at all, they went against the intent of the Constitution, because they refused to consider any candidate at all.

However, once the vacancy was there, seating Gorsuch was not unconstitutional.

[StarfishSaver]

58. It was reprehensible but it wasn't unconstitutional.

The Constitution does not require the Senate to confirm - or even consider - a president's nominees or to do so within a particular timeframe.

[onenote]

61. correct.

[Demsrule86]

52. That is a bullshit article.

GOVERNORS CAN VETO. Maybe stop demoralizing voters.

[StarfishSaver]

55. Why are you posting this suppressive bullshit on a Democratic website?

And don't tell me it's because we "need to know" or such other excuses.

And, FYI, the state legislature elector threat has been debunked countless times.

What is your purpose/goal here?

[Tarc]

59. It's really getting tiring, to see this on the DU over and over

Many of you are acting like Facebook boomers chain-forwarding the same debunked meme, over and over and over.

[Trumpocalypse]

60. Step 3 is bs

https://electoral-vote.com/#item-1

[marie999]

65. Okay everyone, listen to the person who keeps bringing it up.

Trump will steal the election so let's all not bother to vote. Let's just stay home. How many of these people are really Democrats. How many of these people want Trump to win. The only reason to keep bringing these things up is to keep Democrats so depressed they won't bother to vote. Don't listen to them. Get out the vote. If trump does win at least we know we did everything we could to elect Biden. Do everything we can to vote in a Democratic House and Senate. And do what I am going to do. This is the last article I will read about trump stealing the election.

[Statistical]

66. Biden doesn't need any states with full Republican control to get to 270 EV.

Do you think your doom porn does anything other than supress the vote?

Why do you like suppressing the vote to ensure Trump wins fair and square?