DeJoy Tells Judge Mail-Sorting Machines Can't Be Reassembled

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

(Bloomberg) -- Postmaster General Louis DeJoy told a judge the U.S. Postal Service can’t reassemble the hundreds of high speed mail-sorting machines that were taken apart this year, a project that more than a dozen states allege was intended to undermine the upcoming election.

A nationwide injunction issued last week in Yakima, Washington, should be amended to acknowledge that the machines can’t be put back together, DeJoy and the USPS said in a filing in the case on Wednesday. The machines, dismantled under a DeJoy initiative, were stripped for parts to improve or repair other machines, they said.

“It is therefore not possible to return such machines to service,” the USPS and DeJoy, a major Republican donor, said in the filing.

The Sept. 17 injunction granted by U.S. District Judge Stanley A. Bastian, requires the USPS to reverse disruptive operational changes implemented by DeJoy, including restrictions on overtime and changes to the handling of election mail, such as absentee ballots applications. The order was sought by a group of Democratic state attorneys general who have sued the postal service.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/dejoy-tells-judge-mail-sorting-machines-cant-be-reassembled/ar-BB19nX71?li=BBnb7Kz

[soothsayer]

1. Well get the damn parts

Lying liar

[Blue Owl]

2. Make that fucker pay for new ones out of his own goddamned pocket

And then he can go fuck himself after that.

[world wide wally]

34. Any other employee would have to pay for the damages.

[live love laugh]

54. 💯💯💯💯💯

[Zoonart]

3. Wanton destruction of public property.

[we can do it]

4. He can reach into his damn pockets and buy new ones then.

[Silent3]

23. New sorters would never be available in time...

...and DeJoy knew that when he destroyed them. This is specialty equipment -- there aren't warehouses full of standardized USPS sorting machines, waiting to go.

I'm pretty damn sure this is the kind of thing made-to-order, in pre-specified numbers when ordered.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Fine. Buy new ones, and pay for them himself.

[lpbk2713]

6. ALL of hundreds of machines were cannibalized?

He's full of shit.

[dchill]

10. Ya think?

[vlyons]

7. Absolute BS

Any competent mechanical engineers with the rights part and schematic plans can reassemble them. The manufacturer could probably send some contractors to do it. He is a liar.

[Silent3]

26. I saw some video of a trashed sorting machine, out behind a post office

Thick, complicated wiring assemblies had been slashed apart to break pieces of the machine apart -- not gingerly unplugged so you could easily plug one piece back into the other again. This is the kind of damage where fixing the machine could take as long as building a new one. And that's not fast.

This was deliberate sabotage, with a mind on making sure quick repair wasn't possible.

[dsc]

8. then hold him in contempt

and put him in jail until the machines are replaced. I bet he will find the parts damn fast then.

[dchill]

12. Destruction of government property.

[Walleye]

14. Yes jail. It's the only way to get his attention

[Hoyt]

9. USPS has far more capacity than it needs. They won't and shouldn't reassemble the removed machines.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable for timely mail delivery.

[intheflow]

15. What in the world are you basing this on?

[Hoyt]

22. Rather than simply accept junk I read on internet, I like to do a little research.

We have roughly 6,000 flat sorting machines. They operate about 17 hours per day. They handle 35,000 pieces of flat mail per hour.

But let's be conservative and assume it's:
5,000 machines
30,000 pieces per hour
8 hours a day.

To save you the math, that's 1.2 Billion pieces a day, running at less than half of average.

The Postal Service processes and delivers 472.1 million mail pieces each day. We have a lot of excess capacity.


Unfortunately, there is no one article that provides all of that. Here are a few that provide the stats above, and I have verified it with other articles over the months:

https://facts.usps.com/one-day/

https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/fss-comes-short

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/19/903982558/dismantling-mail-sorting-machines-could-leave-a-lasting-mark-on-the-postal-servi

Or you can simplify a bit of the math from this statement by the American Postal Workers Union (which should know):

"According to a grievance filed by the American Postal Workers Union and obtained by The Washington Post, the USPS was poised to decommission 671 of the massive machines, roughly 10% of its inventory, and capable of sorting 21.4 million pieces of paper mail per hour. The Postal Service, by comparison, processes as much as 500 million items each day.

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/08/20/heres-why-the-postal-service-wanted-to-remove-hundreds-of-mail-sorting-machines/


I'd suggest questioning a lot of stuff you read on the internet.

[2naSalit]

31. Thank you!

I agree, critical thinking and fact checking is necessary if you are looking ti find real information n=and not garbage and CT junk.

[machoneman]

33. Ah, but you missed a key point. Virtually all the machines were in heavily Democratic areas!

Let's get the USPS unions to declare if any machines still operate in our areas.

Think: I'll venture all the removed mail boxes were in heavily Democratic areas.

I'll believe the union folks and no others at the USPS until a.) Dejoy gets fired by Biden and b.) the 3 man USPS Board, all Trump lackeys, also lose their posts.

[Hoyt]

42. Not true, other than that is where the major population centers are. Fact is, there are too many of

those machines and people didn't even look to see the true story.

No wonder the Russians are successful spreading BS.

[lostnfound]

36. How wasteful leaders were in 2009-2016 to buy them?? But Christmas peak is 801 million

https://blogs.loc.gov/inside_adams/2017/12/ready-set-mail-the-christmas-rush-is-on/

And some of those machines are out of service at any given time.
Some machines are in cities where they have one machine that only gets 50% use on peak days.

It’s not perfectly fluid / miscible.

[Hoyt]

43. We have almost 3 times the number of sorters needed, and it's more when run17 hours a day.

[Traildogbob]

37. Whoa!!!!!

That’s some damn fine smack down for some one questioning your post. You are what White House press needs. Well done. That snack will leave a bruise.

[budrg]

44. FSS vs DBCS

I believe the machines scheduled to be pulled were DBCS (delivery bar code sorters) and not FSS (Flat sequencing sorters). Your stats and articles refer to flats, correct?

[Hoyt]

58. Flat mail sorters are what were being removed. Not package sorters.

Reason is obvious. Flat mail is dropping, packages are increasing.

[budrg]

60. It's the letter sorters

It’s the letter sorters being removed, not the flat sorters. That’s why everyone is so upset. There will be an increase in letter volume due to mail in ballots and less machines to sort them.

[Hoyt]

62. So what, we have enough capacity to handle 800M pieces a day, easyily.

How many voters do you think there are? There are significantly less than 200 M voters.

We’ll have no difficulty handling that, absolutely none, and a hefty percentage of that won’t vote by mail.

Heck, there are 600 K postal workers. They could do it by hand while taking breaks and eating lunch. And that’s not necessary.

[budrg]

73. 600 K

Do you think they’re all clerks? You know, the people who sort the mail at the plant to get it to the station where the clerks sort it to the carriers?

[ecstatic]

56. Then why are we having delays? Major delays?? nt

[Hoyt]

57. It's not the sorting machines, maybe it's overtime and/or some poor

management at upper and mid-levels.

[budrg]

59. DeJoy changed times

DeJoy changed transportation times and mandated carriers had to leave and return by a certain time whether the mail was ready or not.

[GP6971]

61. Welcome to DU!

You seem pretty knowledgeable of the USPS. Are you an employee or retired employee?

[budrg]

63. Thank you

Recently retired

[Hoyt]

64. Yeah. If you were a local postmaster, would you send out trucks unloaded

became of something The head postmaster said? If you were a route person, would you leave with no mail because the trucks that feed you are 15 minutes away?

[budrg]

65. Yes

If you wanted to keep your job.

[Hoyt]

67. I think the union could make a good argument on your behalf.

I’d hate to be afraid my local postmaster is going to fire me because my mail was a few minutes away and I waited.

I think employees have more sense than that. If there are some that scared, they’d probably be better off elsewhere.

Dejoy basically set a goal for trucks to leave on time to avoid excess overtime. Do you expect him to say, “But, if you want to lollygaggle, that’s Ok.”

[budrg]

68. You don't work at the Post Office, do you?

The unions are fighting it all but you have to follow a directive. It’s insubordination if you don’t.

[Hoyt]

69. Do you? I'm sorry, I think you are wrong. The directive to leave on time wasn't aimed at you

specifically. If you got one — as a postal worker — please post a copy.

[budrg]

71. Didn't answer the question

But okay. I’m recently retired from the Post Office. I know how it works and there have been the “Stand Up Talks” regarding this all over social media. In case you’re wondering, that’s a directive.

[Hoyt]

75. Hopefully, they'll become a little more efficient and raise rates a few percentage

points to be profitable, cover the pension requirements (as unfair as it may be), shut up GOPer criticism because they supposedly lose money “on paper,” and provide better service.

What would you do if several bags of ballots were about to arrive at your take-off time? Would you leave because of some directive?

Please post a link to that directive.

[budrg]

76. Election Season

During election season you are required to report any political mail that arrives late. In the old days, they would tell you to deliver it no matter the cost. You’re going to have to look that up yourself. It’s not something I saved but saw it in several places and heard about it from my numerous friends who are still working at the PO.

[Hoyt]

78. So, they told you not to deliver ballots? I don't think so. If they did,

would you leave them?

[budrg]

79. You mean IF they told us not to deliver?

If they told me that I’d go up the chain of command but that never happened with political mail in either direction while I was working. I’m not confident in how things would go now. I know the people I worked with would say deliver still. Don’t know about the rest of the people out there.

[notinkansas]

17. Being postmaster general

doesn't mean he can destroy government property. If he can't/won't get them reinstalled, he needs to pay for replacement out of his own pocket.

[Hoyt]

24. If you have three times as much capacity as you need, it's not destroying government property.

Did you know that we've been removing Blue Mailboxes since the high of 400,000+ in 1985. Why? People ain't using them. That saves money.

[budrg]

46. Yes, but

People are using them less but you can’t just pull them willy nilly. You have to do mail volume studies and you also have to consider where they are and how many are in the area. It doesn’t sound like that was done.

[Hoyt]

47. If you've got 3 times capacity nationally, I suspect the local USPS admin

could do that study in a week, if not less, especially if machines are taken out a few at a time, with spares a day away at most.

In fact, local sorting facilities ought to have those figures already studied. I’d fire them if they didn’t.

But do agree some decent studies need to be performed. But it shouldn’t take as long as a climate change or economic impact study.

[budrg]

49. Blue boxes

I was referring to collection boxes not machines. That’s not something you can do nationally.

[Hoyt]

51. There were over 400,000 of those boxes in 1985. Now, there are like 200,000.

The mail person on the route can tell you how much mail fills the boxes. Where there are two or more boxes, it’s easy make a quick decision to move a box. What I understand, they are mostly moving boxes where are two or more.

And it’s not like if you can’t find a box, it’s a COVID death or something.

[budrg]

53. Not the way it works

I’m just pointing out to you that’s not the way it works and believe it or not it’s important to many people to have a box within walking distance.

[Hoyt]

66. Show some citations that low volume mailboxes aren't being removed and most

are where 2 or more boxes aren’t present.

Besides, just about every residence is a box, where they can send and receive mail. Thing is, people are not mailing much. I — and tens of millions — do just about everything that used to be mailed on-line.

[budrg]

70. That's not what I said

I was explaining how removal works and was commenting that people had the impression they were just being pulled without reason. You’ve stated previously the volume of mail the PO handles, obviously people other than you use the PO and not just their computers. Did you know that technically if a carrier doesn’t have mail to deliver they’re not required to pick up the outgoing? Most will do it anyway but that’s one of the reasons there is a collection box. I didn’t make the rules, just explaining them.

[Hoyt]

72. So if there are two collection and only one third is used, do we need two?

Before trump, 6,000 on average were removed per year.

[budrg]

74. Again, not what I said

I was not debating the necessity to remove low volume boxes. I was pointing out the procedure. I had to jump through hoops to just change the time on one of mine that had virtually no volume at the end of the day.

[Hoyt]

77. Another reason to make things more efficient. I don't doubt the system

is a nightmare. I worked for government too. And we could screw up pouring a glass of water. Not really any better in large companies, although I liked working for government a lot more.

Removing 671 letter sorters isn’t going to hurt the PO.

[MichMan]

50. They know every day which ones have mail volume and which ones don't.

Mail carriers would know which ones have higher usages based on how much mail is in them

[budrg]

52. Right

That’s correct that they would know but the study has to be done over a certain period of time on every collection and recorded. If there are over a certain number of letter pieces, it stays. The point is, you can’t just pull it one day because you want to.

[VicNEO]

35. Downtown CLE main post office - partially shredded received Monday

So. Coworker and I half-heartedly joked about a somewhat important piece of mail that was in Company PO Box on Monday.
It comes in a 8x4 envelope. Papers inside are 8x14.
It was chewed up.

Only part of account numbers could be read/retrieved from the enclosed docs.

Hasn’t happened in decades.

We joked that they may be trying to get sorters working

Guess I can’t respond to that CC chargeback...

(And I love the folks that work at my USPS- especially Red and her crew- good people- and still no music allowed in NEO USPS stations. I fill out survey at least once a month.. these folks deserve at least tunes).

[abqtommy]

11. Well, DeJoy, we'll add that to the List Of Things You Never Say To a Judge!*

* to Night Court

[stillcool]

13. Oh yes he can..

He can get them back from whoever he sold them to.

[jorgevlorgan]

16. That's called "contempt of court"

Arrest the motherf*cker



And if they cannot replace the property is called "destruction of government property". Send ice in to beat and teargas this thug vandal.

[GemDigger]

18. Next time I will know to take apart a newer car for parts to fix a rusted junker... nt

[Gothmog]

19. Lock him up for contempt of court

[procon]

20. Wait a sec... That makes no sense.

If he says he can't reinstall the machines because he ordered the working machines striped of their working parts to repair nonworking machines. That's ridiculous and no one in their right mind would do double the work like he's describing.

So why is he lying? Maybe he ordered the working machines deliberately sabotaged so workers could not put them back in service. Or did he sell off the parts as scrap?

Something doesn't pass the sniff test here!

[crickets]

21. Dejoy should have been fired weeks and months ago.

He has committed crimes against the American people: willful destruction of property and national infrastructure intended to tamper with a national election. The financial hit to taxpayers alone should have him behind bars. The ruin of mail order businesses, the threat to life and health from mail delays, as well as the attempt to sabotage an election should put him away for years. Fire this man and charge him with his crimes.

[Hekate]

25. Yes, well, he destroyed them, you see, & they are complex machines with computerized bits ...

You can’t just walk into Home Depot and get one fully assembled off the shelf, as it were.

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE BASTARD WAS HIRED TO DO.

Prison is too damn good for DeJoy.

[Native]

27. I seem to recall reports of a brand new machine being disassembled.

[GoCubsGo]

28. Make that motherfucker pay for new ones out of his own pocket;

And, then lock him the hell up.

[spanone]

29. the fix is in at the usps

[lame54]

30. Buy new ones and bill DeJoy

[lagomorph777]

32. Well then, DeJerk, pay out of your pocket to replace them.

[Traildogbob]

38. Trump may be

Responsible for getting more billionaires imprisoned than all corruption prosecutors in history. This may be a bright spot in the hell he brought down on us. The 1 percent may go down to .68 percent or lower. Everything he touches, grabs, or puts a spotlight on. Any pussies that got grabbed, not a good prognosis.

[world wide wally]

39. Those were OUR machines and we want them back, motherfucker.

[Lars39]

40. So that means the slow down is permanent?

[marlakay]

41. Well then they can hire more people

And have overtime until after all votes counted.

[mshasta]

45. Because he fking trash them

That’s why they can’t be resemble...he should be in prison for it

[Vivienne235729]

48. No. Put the onus on him. He dismantled it. It is HIS responsibility to get it going again

or he does time for his crime.

[ecstatic]

55. SEND HIS ASS TO PRISON!!

Who the fuck gave him permission to dismantle millions of dollars worth of machines, paid for by our tax dollars?

Seriously, lock him up NOW! They send regular folks to jail for much less. Cops have KILLED due to random accusations of a counterfeit $20 bill. I'm sick and tired of the double standards!

LOCK HIM TF UP!!!!!

[EndlessWire]

80. This just PO's me so much.

During one of those wars (Gulf? Iraqi?) there was an outstanding female captain (?) who was in charge of supply convoys. That might be important, right?

Well, she had vehicle problems, and she ordered other vehicles to be stripped of the parts needed to keep her vehicles going. The vehicles she used were scrapped and abandoned. She made good use of them.

For that, she was stripped of her command, sent home to San Diego, and PUT IN PRISON. Her second in command was also put in prison, but he got out. Eventually, she got out.

This is how we rewarded that hero. She accomplished her mission with clever thinking and the will to win. Yet, she was punished.

Along comes the rich buddy of Trump's, who owns stock in rival companies to the Post Office, who deliberately destroys working equipment with the lame excuse that he was using WORKING MACHINES to fix broken ones, and he is still in that position. He did exactly what Trump wanted, didn't he?

I would CHEER if he were to be put in prison for the willful destruction of US Gov. property. But, the world is crazy right now, and he'll probably get away with it.

Maybe Joe can have him arrested.

[Wicked Blue]

81. Give this pig an orange jumpsuit and a screwdriver

and a deadline.

Or fine him for the cost of replacing each one