Who remembers life for women before RBG?

[wnylib]

What are your personal memories and experiences?

I remember job listings in the newspaper in separate columns labelled: Jobs for Men and Jobs for Women. The men's column listed openings for engineers, hospital staff doctors, accountants, department managers, retail managers, skilled trade jobs. The women's column listed office clerical positions, hairdressers, nurses.

I have a copy of Life Magazine from 1968 with an article about a "women's lib" call to eliminate gender divisions in job listings. The article ridicules the idea and says it is highly unlikely that such a radical idea would ever come to pass.

When I left my husband and filed for divorce, my father went with me to help choose a used car. I was steadily employed throughout my marriage and paid most of our bills because my ex could not hold a job for long. The car dealer said I could not get a bank loan in my name so my father co-signed. The next day, I took out a personal loan from my employer's credit union, with the car as collateral, and paid off the bank to get the car and the loan in my name

I divorced my husband because he was violent. A co-worker asked me, "Well, is it serious? Or does he just slap you around a little?"

So what do DUers here remember about the old gender attitudes and laws?

[Raven]

1. A number of my friends graduated from college in 1966 and immediately

enrolled in Katy Gibbs Secretarial School to learn how to type so that they could find jobs.

[leftyladyfrommo]

76. There only s few jobs open for women.

Teacher. Secretary. Nurse. Clerk.

Pretty much had to be able to type. My first job made all the women to to a modeling agency to take classes in proper deportment hair and makeup. We wore uniforms that matched the bank decor.

It was a different world.

[spooky3]

2. I had to drive a friend to another state because

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Abortion was forbidden in our state.

Lots of pay equity issues throughout my career.

When I was separating from husband, a Realtor said he wasn’t willing to show me a house I could easily afford on my income, unless my husband was present.

[DownriverDem]

38. A friend of mine

went to New York alone for an abortion. She and her boyfriend could not afford to pay for it and he come too.

[MurrayDelph]

42. I remember my dad having to tell his best friend

that he'd just taken best friend's daughter to the hospital because she was afraid to tell her father she was having complications from a botched back-alley abortion.

[Budi]

3. 'The pill'

Iwas only in grade school, but remember my mom & her devout Catholic church ladies talking about it in their meeting at our house.

There was a certain excitement & they were all willing to forego the wishes of the Pope & free themselves from calculating the 'Rythm Method' every month.

They were all for it!

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

4. 2 job offers in my twenties

One was working for an attorney and he told me I would accompany him when he traveled and we would stay in a single hotel room. The picture of his wife and kids were visible on his desk.

Another, I was flat out explicitly told that blow jobs were part of the job duties.

1975
I was 20
1976
I was 21

[smirkymonkey]

43. How sick!

How did you handle that? What a nightmare!

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

61. I stood up and walked out

Both times.

[smirkymonkey]

77. Good for you!

I am sorry that you ever had to deal with such behavior. It must have been a horrible experience.

[murielm99]

5. I remember applying for a summer job in a factory when I was in college.

I was told they only hired men. The receptionist asked me, if I could type. I would be allowed to fill out an application for a clerical job if I could type.

[irisblue]

6. 👋👋👋👋👋

[sinkingfeeling]

7. I was legally fired from my job when I became pregnant with my

son in 1969. My father, also, had to co-sign my home loan. I can recall when people could refuse to rent to single women. When restaurants could refuse to seat single women, etc.

[wnylib]

13. I remember, too, when women could not

enter a lounge or restaurant without an escort. The "explanation" usually given was that unescorted women might be prostitutes looking for business.

I also remember when I was in high school, pregnant teachers were not permitted to work past their 4th month. My pregnant chemistry teacher was replaced by a chauvinist male halfway through the school year.

The year after I graduated, girls were allowed to wear slacks to school. My younger sister's friend had the chauvinist chemistry teacher for homeroom. He would not allow her into the room when she wore slacks and he marked her as an unexcused absence (truancy). She went to all her classes anyway and another teacher finally went to the administration about it.

[maddiemom]

39. I also began teaching when a pregnant woman, (married, of course) couldn't teach after she began to

"show." During an interview, wearing a wedding or engagement ring made it OK for the interviewer to ask about your plans for children. Little more than twenty years later, pregnant, unmarried students were welcome in class. This always cracked me up.

[dawg day]

44. It was amazing the transformation through the 70s.

By the time I had my children in the early 80s, there were even a few laws protecting me from being fired!

We still have a LONG way to go, of course. Like should parents today really have to pay $1200-1500 a month for decent infant care?

[whistler162]

41. I have someplace a photo

of a side door of a building, used to be a bar or restaurant, which had a sign painted on it Woman's Entrance. This, IIRC, was in the 1990's and the building wasn't whatever it had been for years. The sign is gone now after a renovation.

[Ms. Toad]

74. I remember in the late 60s how unusual it was to see a visibly

pregnant woman.

[wnylib]

80. Not in public, true. I saw lots of them, though,

because my father's younger siblings' were having children (8 siblings). There were some young couples in my neighborhood starting their families. Lots of pregnant women having Boomer babies. My sister, one of my brothers, and I were Boomers on the leading edge of our generation. The other brother was a war baby, conceived before my father left for the Pacific..

But they were very discreet about it, as if it was something to hide. No pregnant teachers, store clerks, secretaries, etc. Women were supposed to stop working when they got pregnant. So you didn't see them in public. I don't even remember seeing them out shopping much.

They usually wore skirts with expanded abdominal panels and tent-like blouses with puffed sleeves, littyle cutesy bows, etc. I thought they looked like adults in little girls' clothing, or life sized dolls.

ON EDIT: Oops! I originally read your post wrong and thought you said the 50's. Yes, I remember noticing that there were fewer pregnant women in the late 60's. Young women were in college, out protesting, or both. Or just enjoying independence or struggling against social restrictions to get established in careers.

[maddiemom]

88. In the Seventies,some "cool" maternity clothes FINALLY began to appear.

I actually had a leopard-print top with solid maternity slacks and a long,"" cocktail" type caftan . Doctors actually told you that if you went out on special occasions, you might have a drink,or maybe two--no more and not often. Remember "moo moos?" They were popular at the time (Ugh, but a godsend for pregnant women).

[wnylib]

89. Moo moos. OMG. I remember

my sister-in-law wearing a moo moo psychedelic print when she was 8 months pregnant for my nephew. She is 5'1" tall, small frame. I swear it could have been re-puposed for a queen size sheet.

Yes, maternity clothes did get better. I think part of the reason was that more women were continuing to work through their pregnancies and needed more stylish prego outfits.

[smirkymonkey]

8. I don't, but I do not want to go back to that ever.

Too many young women take our rights for granted these days. They don't understand how much of a fight it took to get them. And now it will take a fight to keep them.

[DownriverDem]

40. Young women

will find out soon enough with a 6-3 Supreme Court.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. I remember those old want-ads, too.

During the '60s and most of the '70s the men's job listings had all the professional positions that paid well, while the women's jobs were limited to clerical help, nurses, elementary school teachers and babysitters. I graduated from college in 1969; during my last semester I went to my academic advisor to get some help about future jobs, and he told me, "Don't worry about it; you'll just get married." Even with a degree from a highly-regarded liberal arts college, the only job I could get at first was as a copyreader for a newspaper.

While I was able to get a car loan on my own, I was treated like an idiot by salesmen when I was shopping for one. I remember one car I was interested in that had manual transmission (which I was was familiar with), but when I took it for a test drive with the salesman he said "You shift pretty good for a girl." And that was the end of that. No sale.

I got married about five years after graduation, but my husband (now my friendly ex) wasn't making a lot of money either, so I had to keep working full-time. Eventually I realized that a woman with a BA degree was doomed to a life of shitty clerical jobs, so I went back to grad school for awhile, then law school. By this time there were a lot of women in law school so things were improving somewhat - but even by graduation the men were snapping up the jobs in the prestigious law firms while the women were getting few, if any, offers. I recall one story - possibly apocryphal but I like it anyhow: A woman applied for a job at a snooty law firm and somehow managed to get an interview. At the interview she was asked whether she could type, and she responded, "Yes, I can type. I can also fuck, but I won't do either for money," and walked out the door.

It has taken a very long time to get where we are now, and I do fear that we could lose a lot of what we worked for.

[smirkymonkey]

48. It's horrifying to think this is what we could go back to.

I am fortunate enough to not have grown up in those days and I am so grateful for the feminists who came before me who fought for our rights to be recognized as full human beings in the workplace and beyond.

When young women discard the label of "feminist" it really angers me because they have no idea what kind of debt they owe to those who fought for their rights to be what they are today. They take so much for granted and they don't know what an effort it took to afford them the rights they now enjoy.

If anything decent comes out of this, it will be a renewed feminist movement because I can't imagine that most empowered women are going to willingly go back to the 1950's.

[colsohlibgal]

10. I Sure Do

It got better bit by bit for the longest time, it has gotten considerably better but still not there. Bless RBG, she helped big time.

[mantis49]

11. I, too, remember the gender separated job ads.

Also, I was floored the first time I wanted to apply for a credit card in my name. It required a male co-signer.

[Ohiogal]

12. I don't know if this qualifies exactly....

But here goes.

The family who lived next door to us when I was a child were Catholic like us and we all went to the same church.

There were 4 kids in the neighbors’ family.

The mom had some kind of internal problems after child #4, and ended up in the hospital scheduled to undergo a hysterectomy the following morning. (back then they let you stay overnight the night before an early morning surgery)

Years later,when I was an adult, Mom told me the parish priest came to the hospital that night when he learned that Mrs. Neighbor was a patient there who going to have a hysterectomy, and, without her knowledge or consent, talked to her male doctor beforehand to make sure that this was indeed a valid medical situation and that Mrs. Neighbor wasn’t just getting this done in order not to have more any more children. This was in the early ‘60s.

[mrs_p]

21. I ... just ... I ... what?

[Ohiogal]

22. Yep.....

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

14. i didnt get a job i was a shoe-in for.

at a hospital lab. an entry level job.
i had most of a 2yr science degree. my mom worked there for 40 yrs. she was the queen of the xray dept, tho her title was 'secretary'.
the head of the lab saw my engagement ring, and asked me about birth control. unbeknownst to me at the time, i was already pg.
i never got a call back. not even the courtesy of a no thanks.

[dawg day]

15. I remember when I first started teaching in the 80s

An older woman teacher told me that in 1968, she and her husband were getting divorced, and she wanted -- after 4 kids-- to get a tubal ligation instead of worrying about birth control.

The hospital had a rule. A woman could not get a sterilization unless her age X her number of living children was more than 100.
Well, she was 30 and had 4 kids, so okay! (Imagine, however, if not-- let's say she had 5 miscarriages and no live births and wanted to end the heartbreak... "no luck. Need living children-- Four of them!&quot

Then they said she couldn't have it unless her husband signed off on it. "But we're getting divorced!"
Well, they said, if you're not married, you can't get it at all.

She knew her husband now had leverage over her. In order to get his signature, she had to agree to a worse divorce settlement.

This was apparently quite common.

Oh, and in my state, until 1975 or so, it was legal for a man to beat his wife (as long as the rod was no thicker than his thumb), and legal for him to rape her.

[wnylib]

26. That is why I never use the phrase

"rule of thumb." I know its origin. But I thought that was true in Medieval Europe. I did not know that it was law in any of the states.

I also remember the arguments about whether it was "legally" possible to charge a husband with raping his wife. This was based on the assumption that she owed him sex on demand as part of the marriage obligations, so, if she refused, he had a right to take what was his. Some churches backed up that belief in their doctrines.

[agingdem]

16. I remember

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(1) broke, weeks pregnant with a fetus that was not "viable", I had to endure a 20 hour round trip bus ride to another state for a termination....(2) unable to make a hotel reservation in my name without a written confirmation from my husband...(3) the hell of convincing a bank to issue me a credit card without my husband as a guarantor...(4) as executor of my parents estate and armed with a signed document from the court, I was denied access to my parents safety deposit box because "you're a woman and executor is a man's job"... I remember

[wnylib]

83. The executor being male is one of the things

that RBG successfully fought to change.

[Beringia]

17. My mother was big on feminism, but she never cared about it for her daughters

She cared about it for herself.

My father was the champion for becoming someone in life and he put a lot of horsepower, as he would say, into all of us kids. I suppose just the fact that my mother, born in 1927 was a big feminist, influenced me greatly. But it was my father who put feminism into action, just by being egalitarian as far as men and women were concerned.

As far as discrimination, I encountered more of that just by wanting to stand up for my own rights as a human, and ran into several bosses who wanted to fire me for that. Two did, my first two jobs.

I enjoyed watching the RBG documentary, where she took on a man's right case, where the man was denied social security death benefits, that automatically went to a mother, but not a father.

[frogmarch]

18. In the early 1960s

I decided I wanted to become a forest ranger, so I wrote a letter of inquiry to Western New Mexico University in Silver City, asking what courses were available relating to forestry.

I received a reply from a woman in the admissions department telling me that only men are forest rangers, but that I could either marry one (yes, she really said that!) or I could attend secretarial school and become a secretary for the forest service.

[LizBeth]

19. A man and I got promoted as department heads in a store at the same time. He got a three dollar

raise, and I did not. We were not making that much to begin with so $3.00 was significant. I asked to get the same thing. My boss literally told me, he is taking care of a family, you are not, I can give you a .50 raise. I quit and went elsewhere.

[soldierant]

54. They pulled that line on my mother once.

She was a widow supporting me and her mother (who was playing the stay-at-home parent role.) She responded, "What am I then, chopped liver?" I don't think the raise she got was really comparable, but her boss did go to bat for her , and she did get a raise.

Personally, I went into the USMC in 1966 as a commissioned officer, and I knew I was't suited for combat. I did what I could for the equality all military women have now, of course. In my job I pretty well already had it.. Sadly, there were women who didn't want equality, and some of what I fought for was lost.

I do remember, in high school, being admonished by an aunt that I shouldn't get such good grades or I'd never find a husband. I made it clear I would have no use for any man who didn't want me to be intelligent.

[snowybirdie]

20. My girlfriend's husband

had left her for another woman while she was pregnant. She wanted a tubal ligation after her child's birth, but needed his signature to approve the procedure. 1972

[PlanetBev]

23. Couldn't get a credit card until I was 29

My father had to co-sign for a loan when I was 28. Only 9% of all doctors were women. When I found a female gynecologist in 1973 (I was 23) other women giggled nervously and assumed that a women in that field must be a lesbian.

Women didn’t deliver the mail, there were very few women reporters at that time and they didn’t anchor the news. In 1977, Barbara Walters became the first female news anchor and Harry Reasoner resented sharing the ABC news anchor chair with her.

I could go on and on...

[TicketyBoo]

62. I was applying for a job with the post office in 1974.

One of the interviewers brought in a letter carrier's satchel filled with mail (nominal weight was supposed to be 35 pounds), slung it over my shoulder and asked me, "Do you think you could carry that?" I said, "I have purses at home that weigh more than this."

I got the job.

Nobody asks a woman if they can carry a 35-pound toddler on her hip.

Yeah. Been there.

[RazzleCat]

24. I can remember back then, but here is one from the 90's

Quick background, worked as a project manager for a construction company. I had my site, my boss had his site, well we took on another job, so he told me as my job was almost finished I should take over his site. So we chat and he says I should go do a walk thru and see how things are progressing. So I grab the foreman from the site (who was in the office at that moment) to assist me in the inspection and off we go. We walk we the entire site, all stories, inside and out, what do I see and hear, a couple of things, comments about me (as in my body), whistles, even some WTF stares, plus some rude hip gestures. I ask a couple of questions, get condescending replies, or why you want to know hon? I complete my inspection, don't say a word. Now it's almost end of the day so the crews are moving to their trucks, packing up and getting ready to leave, one asks the foreman hey Joe how come you get the escort the "honey" round the site, many other add in some asides. I just look at them stone faced, then over at Joe, he got the biggest shit eating grin on his face and answered, Just showing the new boss and project manager around. So many deer in the headlight looks, it was priceless.

Going to toss in another incident same place, told you had a boss, well one morning I show up and there is a honest to god mountain of paperwork on my desk, paperwork I recognized as it had been on the floor next to bosses desk the night before. So I look at him and ask him why his crap is on my desk. He replied that one of my jobs was to assist him and heneeded assistance filling all theses specs, bids and proposals. I sat down and got angry, then I stood up, picked up of big pile of them and dropped them on the floor, looked over at him, and said I filed them, just like you. Give him credit, he laughed and said he deserved it, he also said it was wrong to assume I was a file clerk.

[csziggy]

25. I remember discrimination from a bank

I had a small savings account and a checking account. A male friend just had a checking account. We were both college students working part time jobs. I'd read that a good way to start building a credit history was to take a small loan and pay it off. My friend needed to borrow some money to repair his car.

We both applied for loans, he with no collateral other than his non-working car, me with my savings account as collateral. He got his loan, I did not. I was told that once I married, my husband could co-sign a loan for me. I promptly closed both my accounts with that bank and moved them to a different one that was happy to give me a small loan with my savings account as collateral and no male co-signer.

That was in 1973. The first bank is still in business but in the almost fifty years I have lived in this town, I have not done business with them and will never do business with them. I don't care if their policies have changed since.

[SamKnause]

27. I do.

I am the first single female in my family, on both sides, that has purchased a home and land.

It will be paid for in 3 months.

I paid off a 30 year fixed in 19 years.

[marybourg]

28. Pretty much all of the above,

except the medical issues.

One standout: in college public speaking course I gave a talk on radio astronomy- a pretty new field of science then, which interested me greatly. Though all of my classmates signaled me with an “A” from them, the teacher only gave me a “C”. When I questioned him, he replied” “ you plagiarized that talk. No *girl* could know anything about radio astronomy”. True story.

I have never tolerated the use of “girl” for a grown woman since. I even called out the all powerful Clerk of the Suffolk County (N.Y.) Court on it once, long after he should have know better.

[wnylib]

34. Reminds me if an incident when I was

in college, at the beginning of the first semester. I rushed into a classroom a little late and loaded down with books so I grabbed the first seat available. A male student, who had been at another students' desk chatting, told me that he had planned on sitting where I was. He ORDERED me to move. I was so annoyed by his attitude that I just opened my book and settled in.

He snapped at me, "If you weren't a girl, I'd smash your face." I was a few years older than most of the students and had just gotten out of marriage to a man who used to order and threaten me. I had vowed to myself, "Never again." So I stood up and faced him, hands at my side, and said, "I haven't been a girl for several years, so go ahead and take your best shot."

The professor for our class, a woman, was just coming into the room and had overheard our exchange. In front of the class she looked right at me, winked, and gave a big thumbs up to me. The rest of the class burst out laughing at the bully.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

29. While I was aware of a lot of the things talked about here,

I did not experience most of them. I didn't get married young, and as a single working woman had no problem renting apartments or getting a credit card in my 20s. No co-signers. I also had a job, airline ticket agent at National Airport in Washington, DC, where the men and women in the same job were paid the same.

I have still never forgiven the company for, when a round of lay-offs was occurring, to lay off the woman who was pregnant, rather than the one with less seniority, as would have been the case without the one being pregnant. I felt it was wrong then, and still feel it was wrong. This was in 1969 or '70.

I do recall, in the mid-70's, a male co-worker having trouble getting a mortgage for the house he and his wife wanted to buy, because the bank refused to count her income. Their reasoning was that at some point she'd get pregnant and quit working. While I could sort of see the logic, meanwhile she was working and making very nearly as much as he was.

I also well remember those help wanted male and help wanted female separate job listings, and some newspapers kept those separate listings for a very, very long time.

[Solly Mack]

30. K&R

[PoliWrangler]

31. Forwarded this to my Superior Other and daughter

I had a guess but didnt realize it was that bad.

[lillypaddle]

32. I remember well

I paid for the first year of my college because my parents said I was supposed to get married instead of going to school. I got pregnant shortly thereafter, I couldn't get birth control pills because I was unmarried, and then got married just as they said I would. (I finally got my BA when I was in my 40s- a real accomplishment for me)

NOW started up a chapter in OKC, and I was one of the founding members. I tried to become a real feminist, but the asshole I married (divorced later) wouldn't get his damn knee off the back of my neck. And of course I remember all the things wylib posted in their OP. It's hard to believe how far we've actually come. But a sleeping giant was awakened, and now we are facing ACB trying to fill the shoes of RBG. She has been set up for failure, and I will relish her falling, hoping and praying she doesn't take our rights down with her.

Remember Our Bodies, Ourselves?

So much more I remember, but I'm going to leave it here for now. It's painful thinking about and trying to articulate it all.

[wnylib]

36. Yes, I remember Our Bodies Ourselves.

I remember much more, but some of it is too personal to relate here.

[rickyhall]

33. I remember when my mother had to get a Power of Attorney to help my father conduct their business.

[dlk]

35. My college friend's mother decided to return to school for her master's degree in the 70's

Her father was required to sign the school registration paperwork and her loan applications. This was for a woman in her 50’s!

I also remember working for a large insurance company in the 70’s and only men were allowed to have chairs with arms. Women weren’t permitted desk chairs with arms.

The indignities experienced by American women were many, both large and small and too many continue to this day. It’s amazing after all of these years, the intensity of those who wish to return to those days. It’s no exaggeration to see the next steps as returning women to chattel status.

[TicketyBoo]

65. Oh, we're making America

"great again," doncha know?

[displacedtexan]

70. That chair thing was a survival from the Victorian era.

If you look at Victorian parlor furniture, the gentleman's chair has arms, and the lady's chair doesn't. Hers has to accommodate her bustle/ petticoats.
Those men in that company probably had no idea why their chairs had arms. Too bad they didn't consider the comfort of others.
The only survival I actually like is the row of useless buttons on men's jacket sleeves.

[dlk]

71. Ah yes, the Victorian Era

When women were chattel...

[stillcool]

37. the thing that most affected me..

was the 'package' of what a woman should be. How to, and how not to speak, sit, act, eat, walk, dress, wear makeup. Life was a mine-field, with no room for error. There was no "I"...just a reflection of what was expected at a particular time and place. My value was ascertained through the eyes of others.

[Lonestarblue]

45. One of my first memories was having to get a credit card in my husband's name.

Even though I was employed and had been shopping at that store for several years, when I married, my credit was suddenly no good. Prior to that, I remember job interviews where I was told that management jobs were for men. I could be a clerk, even though I wasn’t trained to be one. I was one of only about six women in my MBA class. I remember being most irate when one employer justified paying men more for the same job because men had families to support and women didn’t need the money, even when I had an advanced degree and men had only an undergraduate degree and no more, or even less, experience.

I also remember well the concept of the Peter principle, which of course refers to men who have been promoted beyond their capabilities solely because they’re men. I never remember it being applied to a woman because women had to be twice as capable as men in many organizations to get any promotion at all.

Things are definitely better today, but it feels as though the pendulum is turning backward. Thank goodness I’m retired and no longer need to fight corporate battles, but we only won some skirmishes. The war hasn’t been won until reproductive choice is law, not a Supreme Court opinion, women enjoy equal pay, and child care is both available and affordable.

[Crunchy Frog]

46. I only remember growing up in an atmosphere of shifting social attitudes on gender, and...

hearing and embracing the words "Women's Lib".

[Hamlette]

47. This is an important thread. We should never forget.

When I got married in 1974 I kept my maiden name but they insisted I sign his name on the marriage certificate. We were in the court house so after resisting for some time I threatened to go get the city attorney to tell them I was keeping my maiden name. They let me just sign my maiden name.

When I started practicing law (I am one of the first 100 women lawyers in my state) they called me by my first name but referred to men by Mr. I nicely told my favorite judge that it looked disrespectful in front of juries and he was humiliated. No judge ever called any of us by our first name in open court again.

I applied for a job as a public defender circa 1976 and the boss told 3 or 4 male attorneys that he had one woman lawyer and he was not going to have any more. All of the guys in the meeting came to me and told me what he said and offered to represent me in a lawsuit against him. Then they went to boss and told him that we would all sue him if he didn't hire me.

Ginsberg is, or should be, a hero to all women and we should remind the youngs what it would have been without her.

[smirkymonkey]

52. +1000

Absolutely! We owe so much to her. She is my hero.

[iluvtennis]

49. wnylib said: A co-worker asked me, "Well, is it serious? Or does he just slap you around a little?"

Wow, just wow ...does he slap you around a little... .

So, so happy that times have changed and DV is taken seriously.

BTW, I thank all of you who paved the way for those who came after you to have a little bit easier path.

[wnylib]

68. Believe it or not, that was a female co-worker

who considered herself independent and pro feminist, in the early days. Such was the conditioning among some women. It was also considered shameful then to admit to having an abusive relationship because people asked what a woman did to upset her husband/boyfriend. A "good" woman knew how to make her husband happy so "good women" didn't have abusive relationships, supposedly. I didn't buy that, of course. My parents relationship hadn't been like that. But once in a relationship like that, with someone who had the possessiveness and anger issues of my ex, it was very tricky getting out of it alive.

That same coworker, though, did help me get out of the marriage by letting me share her place, along with her German shepherd who did not like the ex. She literally saved my life on one occasion (the housemate, not the dog, although she used the dog to do it but that's a long story for another time).

I was determined to get free, but there were many social obstacles for me to fight against, in addition to the ex.

One thing that I did, to undercut his belief that he could force me to return, or kill me with impunity if I didn't, was to break the social taboo on talking about it. I told EVERYONE in my family, at work, all my friends, and all his friends so he could not continue the charade he put on that it was a friendly break up. He really thought that the friendly divorce story would prevent him from being a suspect if something happened to me.

There are too many stories about how I got out of the situation to tell about here, some of them funny in retrospect, although not at the time. I followed my instincts on what I knew about his behavior, and had help from people who dared to get involved.

[iluvtennis]

69. You're a strong woman wnylib. Look at all you've survived. I applaud you.

[wnylib]

72. Thanks, but I did have help and don't

think I would have succeeded without it.

[MineralMan]

50. I remember, but as a man.

What I remember was the unfairness of it all. I remember that unmarried women could not obtain birth control in California in the early 1960s. I remember that women could not borrow money for a house or a car. I remember women having to carry an unwanted child through birth, regardless of the circumstances.

I remember women in college getting expelled for just being in a man's apartment, even after turning 21 years of age, and women dorm residents getting penalized for being late getting back to the dorm. Men had no such restrictions.

There were many other ways women were restricted. At the time, I thought all of that was unfair and that it should be changed. During my lifetime, it did change.

[TicketyBoo]

66. Actually,

unmarried women probably need birth control even more than married women do. But any woman who wants birth control NEEDS it.

[GoCubsGo]

51. To this day, I am STILL mad as hell that all the boys got to go to a Cubs game in the 6th grade.

We girls were stuck going to see fucking "Godspell." (This was the early 70s. I went to the Catholic gulag.) I will go to my grave pissed off over that. And, when my dad got hockey tickets, only my brother got to go.

I remember that I had to take Home Ec in junior high, instead of shop. I had been helping my mother and grandmother in the kitchen since I was 4. The cooking part was piddly basic basic basic shit. And, the stuff they had us cook was nasty, for the most part. With the exception of the cream puffs, it mostly consisted of doctoring up frozen vegetables. But, what I really hated was sewing class. I had no interest in it or fashion. Boring as shit, and the teacher was an asshole who played favorites. I would have rather taken woodworking with the boys. Girl Scouts was the same way at the time, which is why I quit. All they did was train you to be a housewife. They didn't start doing fun things until years later.

[wnylib]

78. Oh boy does that bring back memories.

I hated home ec for the same reasons as you. I watched in the kitchen as a child. By age 10, I was baking cakes from mixes with my friends and later from scratch, along with some simple dinner dishes like goulash, and cookies, and coffee cakes. I had free reign to make what I wanted, as long as I cleaned up after myself and did not use up something my mother wanted for a specific dish or occasion. Our kitchen was cheerful, comfy, and fun. The school kitchen was like a commercial one, sterile looking. The lessons were boring beginner stuff.

I liked clothes, but had no interest in making them since I earned a lot of babysitting money to pay for fads that my parents refused to buy. I could sew buttons, do hems (plenty of practice since I'm short), and do darts and tucks.

I got more interested in the drafting classes that the boys took. I liked geometry and maps and it looked similar. The drafting teacher was ok with it, but said it would have to be approved by the counselor or principle for a GIRL to take drafting. They were ok with it (I babysat for the counselor's kids), but a couple male teachers objected that it would set a bad precedent and before you knew it, there would be boys in home ec and girls in woodworking. One of them told my parents that I needed counseling to accept being a girl.

My father called BS so I didn't have to go to counselibg, but also was not allowed to take drafting.

[IronLionZion]

53. RBG was great for men too as a part of her clever strategy to fight gender discrimination

some of her first clients were men who faced gender discrimination, like the bachelor taking care of his disabled mother because that was considered women's work back then, or the husband of a female soldier who was denied a housing allowance. For the bachelor, the patriarchal attitude was that he should go find a wife to care for his mother.

[wnylib]

81. Yes, she knew that equality goes both ways.

She also realized that she would be more successful by first pushing for male benefits of equality, since they were the ones who most needed convincing.

[Paper Roses]

55. Graduated from college in 1962..Best job I could find paid $65.00 a week.

I had to live with 3 other roommates and we all chipped for the rent. We rented our furniture, none of us could afford to buy anything. Split that cost too. Took the trolley to work every day, it was ..I kid you not, '20 cents!
Bought our own groceries and when I think back to what I ate then, Campbell's soup, TV dinners, anything cheap.

Seems we are reverting to old times. Prices are not the same, obviously but the situation is.

As I type this, I worry that our ASS-in-chief will screw up Medicare and I'll be back to the old days. Cheap eats. Trying to save to pay my house taxes(Nov 1) and living on SS is a challenge.
Widow for 12 years. Savings gone. Husband and I worked every year, no slouching! We were self-employed. Not something I would suggest to anyone.

This is not how I thought I'd spend my old age. Health issues keep me close to home every day. Of course, Covid is of concern because of pre-existing conditions.

I know I'm not alone. I wonder when the supporters of out idiot pResident will hit a point in their lives when they hit the same situation.

Wonder who they will blame then?

[trueblue2007]

56. I remember and life sucked.

[JonLP24]

57. I'm too young

But the moment she was gone I realized there are so many things we take for granted that wouldn't be possible without her. She was certainly one of a kind, irreplaceable.

[SunSeeker]

58. In the 1970s, my mom had to wear a skirt and pantyhose at her job putting price tags on clothes.

I remember how frustrated she was that her pantyhose kept getting snagged on the clothes and tags. Pantyhose weren't cheap, and it was a minimum wage job, so it really hurt to lay out money for pantyhose all the time. By the end of the month we would run out of money for food. And dumbest thing about it was she did not even deal with customers so it made no sense why they were so insistent on her clothing. She just worked in the stockroom, not on the floor of the department store.

[connecticut yankee]

59. I graduated from college in 1956 and went looking for a job.

At that time, the guys were put into Management Training, and the "gals" were given typing tests.

In 1970, I was in the middle of divorcing my husband. His lawyer had apparently notified everywhere we had charge accounts, so when I was shopping in Bloomingdale's, they refused to let me use my card, and actually tore it up in front of me.

In 1988 Walter "Fritz" Mondale was running for President and selected Geraldine Ferraro as his running mate. The Repukes referred to them as "Fritz and Tits."

[russiamommy]

60. I'm 55. Most of my memories are my mom telling me stories

Mom was a wonderful woman. She wanted to go to college. Her mom saw no need for a woman to go to college and kicked her out of the house. She struggled through and got her degree in microbiology. She was actually able to get a job in the state lab working on TB. She told me a lot of stories from those days, but a few stick out.

- A friend of hers wanted to be a vet. Top of her class out of undergrad, but there wasn’t a veterinarian school in the country that would accept a woman.

- She got married late in life. Very unusual in the late 50s. She and dad had trouble conceiving and adopted my sister. There was no such thing as daycare back then. Even though she made more money than my dad it was a given that it was her that was going to give up her job. She never held another professional position.

- When they bought their first house, mom was still working. Her income didn’t count toward getting the mortgage.

- She did end up getting pregnant (with me! ). Then again with my brother. That was 1968. She asked her doctor for a prescription for the pill. He wouldn’t give it to her. The explanation was that she was still young and healthy enough to have another child.

There were many more stories. I’m so grateful to women like my mom and of course RBG. The only real example I can remember of being treated differently was when I was 26 and was trying to buy carpet for my new condo. The guy kept asking where my husband was when I applied for the credit to buy the carpet. It was simply beyond his comprehension that a 26 yo single woman would be buying carpet. Needless to say, I bought the carpet elsewhere.

[eppur_se_muova]

63. My mother does. She was born in 1936. My sister refuses to believe some of the stories she tells.

She couldn't get a credit card or a bank account without her husband's consent. When she applied for a job, they asked her how much her husband made in salary. Things like that made it much harder for her to consider divorce, even though she had good reason to.

My sister seems to get most of her info from Faux, though she tries to say she doesn't. (Big surprise.)

Anyone remember this TV show from 1975 ? I was 15 when it aired, and I had to ask if employers really could fire a woman just for being pregnant. How little I knew.

[MustLoveBeagles]

64. I was too young to have it affect me directly

I know my mom had difficulties in the 70's and 80's. She worked for Kmart from 1981 to 1988. She didn't have problems with her first boss but the replacement who took over in 85 was awful. A horrible sexist in a goofy religious cult who thought women shouldn't work, even in crappy jobs, because they took work away from men. This jackass didn't even have the excuse that he was old and set in his ways. He was only a few years older than her. It also didn't help that my uncle (mom and him didn't get along at the time) was friends with the jerk and gave him pointers on how to get her goat.

Among the things he did: he took her off the forklift which she was qualified to do because it was "mans work". He made her scrub the men's room floor with a toothbrush while him and others mocked her. He made her retar the parking lot all by herself when it was a 3-4 job and once wrote up a male coworker who felt bad for her and tried to help. He often humiliated her and other female workers in front of customers. It got so bad that customers (this is a very conservative town, mind you) called into their complaint hotline threatening to boycott the store until he was gone. He often threatened to fire her and ruin her chances for getting another job. I often heard her crying in her bedroom with the door closed. I could go on and on about the abuse she and other employees endured. She wound up on Xanex to cope with the stress and went from 1 pack a day cig habit to 3 packs a day.

Needless to say there was at least one Class Action lawsuit against him and he eventually "encouraged" to resign. When she did quit she found out later he'd made good on his threat to give her bad evaluations. Fortunately she eventually found a place to work that didn't take the bait and sympathized with her situation.

I've dealt with sexism in the workplace but it was nothing compared to what mom endured. I did work as a temp (was later hired) in a bank that required women to wear skirts and dresses with pantyhose and dress shoes. Walking several blocks to the bus stop during wintertime was hell. The men were required to wear ties. What was so stupid was that we were in the basement and had no contact with bank customers. This was finally changed in the late nineties when the bank changed ownership when new dress code became business casual.

[displacedtexan]

67. My college applications required a physical exam, including Pregnancy Test

That was Texas in 1970. I also had to wear skirts or dresses until 1972. And tennis skirts on the courts. We also had unannounced dorm room searches.

[Ms. Toad]

73. While RBG was absolutely fantastic - just remember that she was but one woman.

The changes since she (and many others) are the product of a lot of hard work by a lot of women - some very visible, but a lot of other ordinary women just doing what needed to be done to move us forward.

As to the specific question (stripped from the RBG changed the world posture)

I did a survey in 1974 for my high school English/research project and asked superintendents of dozens of schools in rural Nebraska if they had the choice between hiring a woman math or physics teacher or a man, which one would they hire. To my surprise, many expressed a (then already illegal) preference for hiring men.

As an unmarried woman, I could not hold a credit card in my own name when I graduated from high school.

Until 1968, even though I lived on a farm in rural Nebraska and attended a one-room country a mile away from home, I was required to wear a skirt to school. As a compromise, those of us walking the mile (or more) to school in blizzards were permitted to wear pants as long as we changed out of them immediately when we arrived.

[wnylib]

84. You're right that RBG was one woman

and that many ordinary women worked hard to make changes. It's been a group effort all the way.

But RBG was in the courts fighting to give us the cases and rulings that became tools for us to use. She herself overcame obstacles and personal life difficulties to get into a position to set precedents for us. She gave us a marvelous example of continuing to fight without giving up.

[leftyladyfrommo]

75. I graduated from college in 1969

Things were just getting rolling. It was interesting. Women were interested but men weren't.

[Mossfern]

79. It was mid 1960's

I just started college. I chose my school because of the emphasis on the Arts. I volunteered to build stage sets because my goal was to be a set designer. I was told that couldn't be because set designers belonged to a union that did not accept females. Those in charge told me that I would more successful if I chose to be an actress - specifically a comedienne. After I graduated with a degree in Painting and Art History, the job market was very limited - at every interview they wanted to know how fast I could type - one interviewer commented on the outfit the previous applicant dressed. I insisted that I could not type - little rebel that I was.

I ended up taking a position as a receptionist at a commercial production company and was literally chased around the desk by a male employee with no repercussions to him. I was aghast that when the President of the company's wife called and his mistress was with him in the office, I was told to tell the wife that he was in a meeting. Yes I was that naive.

So, things being as they were, I went to graduate school to get my MFA - ha!
I worked for the vice president of an advertising agency and I was in charge of the 'bullpen'. He actually was great in that he would come to my desk to neaten it up claiming that's what I did for him. However, when I had to jump up on the couch in his office to pin up something on the wall for him to consider he would comment about how wonderful it was to have a nubile young woman jumping on the couch in his office. ( think Madmen)

I eventually succumbed and got my teaching license - worked in a school without walls in the 1970's (reference Fort Apache), was assaulted a few times and just left for cause. I ended up renting studio space to paint and working as a waitress in a cafe in Greenwich Village. OMG lots more,, but some of it may be too disturbing for many.

Sorry if this is too long....didn't edit.
This response actually triggered me.

[wnylib]

82. Not too long. Thanks for sharing your

experiences. I can relate to some of them.

I'm sorry if the thread opened up unpleasant memories or old wounds. I wanted us to be able to reflect on how much we've achieved, how much we've worked for, and how important it is to hold onto the advances made.

[Mossfern]

86. Ah yes,

I did go on to marry, raise four amazing,free thinking children, institute an Office of Environmental Affairs for my County and was the Director of that, helped with the building of an Environmental Center and became Mayor of my Town in spite of all that. Lots of other stuff too. I don't know how much of that I could have accomplished without the brave women before me.

I'm retired now and have gone back to painting and gardening.

[wnylib]

87. Well, you've accomplished more than

I have. A life well lived. Enjoy your retirement.

[llmart]

85. Like many other posters, I have too many incidents that I could write about.

Many of the ones already mentioned affected me. When I married my husband was a college student and I was a full time executive secretary. I carried the health insurance for both of us and paid all the bills including his tuition. However, I couldn't get a credit card in my name. The apartment we rented had to be in his name. When I got pregnant I was told that I would have to quit before I started "showing". I needed the money and the health insurance and fortunately for me I had a terrific male boss. When I told him I couldn't lose my job he said, "Well, we won't tell the big shots in the front office and by the time they realize you're pregnant we'll have already broken the rules." So I kept it a secret as long as I could and he was right. I was able to work up until one month before I gave birth. However, I was not allowed to come back. Meantime, my husband got his notice from the military to report to basic training when my child was only 8 weeks old. I had to scramble to find a new job and the hiring agency told me in my interview, "Do not tell anyone that you have a baby or they won't hire you." Now, I'm one of those who has a real problem with lying, but I was desperate so I was willing to not tell that little secret. The guy interviewing me came right out and asked me if I had any children and I fessed up that I had a baby. I also went on to tell him that I never missed work at any of my jobs which was true and fortunately he offered me the job.

I always worked with mostly men in my younger days and the harassment was pretty standard fare, everything from comments on my figure, clothing, weight, you name it. Nothing was off limits. When I got married I worked in a department of thirteen men and me. For awhile after I got married one guy would greet me every day with "Smile if you got some last night."

As I said, I have a gazillion stories, all of which I've told my two children many times so that they know what it was like for women back in the 60's.

[mnhtnbb]

90. I remember being declined a department store credit card in my name

in the early '70's because of my husband's poor credit rating. It was the first I knew that I could be denied a credit card in my name, not based on my credit history alone without regard to my husband. After I divorced him in 1979, I was able to get my own credit cards.