After months of responding to posts with "He's NEVER going to resign!",

[Aristus]

I'm starting to turn around on the possibility.

If he waits until Inauguration Day, there will be agents posted in every major airport on the Eastern Seaboard. They'll have him in custody before you can blink.

Right now, he has the advantage of time to prepare a skedaddle to a country with no U.S. extradition treaty. He could be spirited away in the night with relative ease.

I wonder if that has occurred to him yet...

[First Speaker]

1. I've long thought he might flee the country if the shit ever really hit the fan...

...I also think that one of the things he's terrified about is that, once out of the White House, here or in exile, Mr Putin might just decide that he--Trump--is a Loose End. And we all know what Putin does with Loose Ends...

[Aristus]

3. Well...he's already fallen from a great height.

All that's left now is that sudden stop at the bottom...

[hvn_nbr_2]

34. My nightmare scenario

He cooks up some fake "wonderful new international agreement" with Putin and goes to Moscow for a big signing and celebration. Takes the whole grifter family along for this enormous new achievement. They all defect, Putin blocks Air Force One on a tarmac somewhere, and gets his hands on all the secret stuff on AF1.

At that point, Putin has no further use for him and his klan so he no longer supports them in the style they've become accustomed to, but he does provide them enough to live modestly and free from prosecution back in the US, similar to whatever arrangement Snowden has. Putin's only reason to do that much for them at that point is simply to provide assurance to his other assets around the world that they'll be protected.

Presumably AF1 has some kind of self-destruct mechanism for such a scenario, to limit the damage.

[MineralMan]

2. Oh, yes, it has occurred to him.

I have been predicting a resignation following his loss in November for a very long time. It is the only way he can escape prosecution. Pence will issue a blanket pardon for all federal crimes Trump may have or did commit, dating back to before he became President. Trump will resign and leave the country immediately to wait out whether any state indicts him on a state crime.

He can head for any number of countries, including Russia, North Korea, or China. None would extradite him. There are some Middle Eastern countries also where he might go.

The plan is probably already fully formed and will be executed when it is clear that he has lost the election. He will be on a plane the same day he hands his resignation over. He'll probably take his family with him, since most of them are also liable to be prosecuted.

[Miguelito Loveless]

33. I can't see that any of those countries would want him, except maybe

Russia, who would see to it he had a very fatal health "incident" shortly after arrival. Trump would be very stupid to go to Russia. Putin is not likely to keep his mistakes around.

[Lars39]

49. Russia might want to keep him around as a propaganda tool.

We all know that this family isn't going to shut up once he's out of office. Trump has quite a following of evangelical nutjobs here and in other countries. What better way to keep the chaos going than to keep Trump and family broadcasting their special brand of hate?

[getagrip_already]

4. what's to keep him from....

boarding af-1 and heading to country with no extradition and which we can't send missiles into, along with c130's loaded with gold and crates of cash?

He owns scotus, and can self pardon at will. He doesn't need pence to pardon him. A biden admin couldn't even try to extradite him on federal charges.

It is much more his psyche to attempt to rule in absentia for his remaining term. What would stop him? The military? They have to follow his orders and they likely wouldn't know very far in advance. His cabinet?

I've always thought this will be his final FU. He will become a "leader" in exile, fomenting violence and civil war. That is putin's way.

[Aristus]

5. What's to keep him?

Oh, entire squadrons of F-22 strike fighters, I'm guessing.

"Put down at the nearest airport and surrender your passenger, or be shot down, over!"

[getagrip_already]

12. and WHO would issue that order?

He would still be potus. NOBODY could legally issue that order but potus himself. No military commander would fire on their own cic without congressional action.

The key here is he absconds but doesn't resign. The constitution doesn't have a provision for that other than impeachment or the 25th amendment.

And we all know the likelihood of the senate going along with either of those, even if he pulls that stunt, which would likely be billed as a troop visit with a last minute change of orders. His plane would be down and he would be taking a golden shower before anyone even put the pieces together.

The press on the plane would simply disappear.

This would be simple. How often does a potus just appear in a war zone? Who knew in advance? All the infrastructure is there to pull this off. No one piece would know the whole plan except a few corrupt travelers.

[Ms. Toad]

17. And where is he going to get the gold and crates of cash?

If he absconds, I am relatively confident that Pence and Republican idiots in the senate have solid enough preservations instincts that they know - AFTER - he has lost, that there is no political gain to be had by continuing to protect him.

So while he could abscond, I doubt the outcome you are suggesting post-absconding.

[getagrip_already]

20. the us treasury... they have lots of it...

Remember during the wars in iraq and afghanistan? The us military shipped billions of dollars in cash on c130's under cia cover ops. The money was meant for reconstruction and cooperation but largely just disappeared.

So the apparatus is there. Nobody on the ground knows the full sequence of orders. The treasury workers are told to put x crates of cash on a truck. They don't know where it is going. The truck is told to take a load they don't know the contents of to an airfield.

The soldiers at the airfield are told the number of crates and the weight, and which planes to load them on, but they don't know contents or even destination.

The crew is briefed just before flight of a long distance flight. They don't know what they are carrying. They have a flight plan but no destination.

The crew gets a course change towards the end of their flight plan and finally know where they are going to land, but don't know why.

And that is how that all works. Compartmentalization and secrecy. Only a few people know the whole. And the crews will follow orders.

[Ms. Toad]

29. The president doesn't have the authority to access it.

The key to that sequence was that it was ordered by the military, not the president.

Aside from which, once it is clear he is gone - political survival instincts will kick in. Regardless of what he has been able to accomplish from the White House - and how successfully he has been able to bully others - he will not have that power after he has been defeated and has left the country.

[getagrip_already]

35. does mnuchin? potus has the ultimate authority to do anything i the exec branch or military....

As long as it isn't an obviously illegal order.

Could he order the postal service to tear out sorting machines? Could he order DHS to force hysterectomies' on detainees or strip children from their families with no traceability?

Not directly. But he can make it happen. Or, more accurately, the evil enablers he has around him in the wh can; but it still ends up happening.

Don't wonder how 6-10 million soul's were murdered in WWII. This is exactly how it happened.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. No, Mnuchin Does Not

The treasury secretary does not have unfettered access to crates of cash.
The fed controls the cash flow of the country, not him.
And, the fed accounting system documents the use of every penny.
And, the movement of gold reserves is done in concert with congressional finance committees.
Congress controls appropriations so it's clearly illegal for any one person in government to order the transport of gold reserves, whether in Fort Knox, NYC, or Denver.
They can't just load a C4 full of gold & cash.
They just don't have access to it.

[getagrip_already]

43. that is a very old simplistic view I fear...

When you say the fed controls it, that in effect says people control it. And those people are not the civil servants of old, or even the governors of old. They are the appointees who willingly follow orders regardless of what they are.

And it still doesn't get past the fact that this has been done before; albeit for different reasons. We quite literally took billions of dollars in cash and loaded it onto transport planes and shipped it overseas never to be seen again. So it can be done within the system.

The people who print the money and put it on trucks don't know where it is going to end up.

Sure, there are audit trails, but they eventually end and when inspectors go looking for the crates they just aren't where they are supposed to be. Inspector generals have been fired over much smaller investigations.

The whole point in all of this is that it may be illegal, but the people who are responsible don't seem to care. The law doesn't apply to them. The internal controllers don't want to know.

There are hundreds of examples you have already seen in this administration where money congress allocated for x was shifted to y - even when y was explicitly denied. Unless and until the senate will act on those issues, the laws will be ignored.

Please don't be so simplistic. This isn't that world right now.

Congress isn't being told anything. Nothing has oversight. It just isn't so.

[ProfessorGAC]

50. An Insult Is All You've Got?

Consider your advice ignored.
I'm right, you're wrong.
End of conversation.

[getagrip_already]

51. what insult?

No offense meant to you personally. It's just a very dated view of how people are running things in the gov't.

We wouldn't see people openly defy a federal judge and end the census early if things work the way they once did.

Sorry if that offends you. I'm not attacking you, just pointing out the reality.

[Captain Zero]

28. More likely he leaves on his own plane or a Russian oligarch's plane.

than AF1.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. What's to keep him is the fact that the guys up in the sharp end of AF-1 are Air Force officers.

Do you really think those officers would do that?

With all due respect, I refer to your username.

[getagrip_already]

13. yes, if he were still potus ....

They couldn't refuse a lawful order. And it's likely there would be pilots on board to replace any crew that would balk and stand down.

Also keep in mind the crew wouldn't know in advance. They would be nearing a destination then just get a change in orders. orders. not a request.

Just how do you think the military works anyway?

[A HERETIC I AM]

22. "Just how do you think the military works anyway?"

Well, I clearly don’t think it works the same way you do.

If you think ANY of the small group of pilots, and it is a small group, that fly those aircraft would be complicit in helping Trumpy in a blatantly illegal act, you’re fooling yourself.

Air Force 1 doesn’t just simply change destinations on a whim, except in situations of national emergency, like when they flew Bush around on 9/11

But you go on with your bad self.

[getagrip_already]

24. the pilots and crew are soldiers - and they follow orders

The orders come from many places, but flow from the top.

And yes, he could on a whim decide to go to saudi arabia instead of florida, and the plane would change course, and fuel transports and escorts would follow along.

It's what they do.

[A HERETIC I AM]

38. "It's what they do."

No, it isn't, not in the way you suggest.

The President of the United States does not simply fly to a foreign land on a fucking whim. That is NOT how it works.

Advance teams are sent ahead, fuel for the plane(s) needs to be arranged for and secured, Secret Service has teams on the ground before he arrives, the limo's and Secret Service vehicles need to be there before he arrives, etc. etc.

In a case like you are suggesting, he can and would be told "we can not do that". If he was flying somewhere in the United States, then yes, he could probably ask to change destinations, but overseas?

Hey, for all I know, you used to be with the 89th Airlift Wing out of Andrews. Maybe you are privy to knowledge no one else is.

But I somehow doubt that, because much of what you have typed in this thread is straight out of some Hollywood Action film, and has little basis in the reality of how the POTUS is moved around.

Not to mention there is no way in fucking hell he could take a cargo plane full of cash and gold with him.

[getagrip_already]

44. not with him.. just in parallel....

Simplistic? Only to make it understandable.

All of those advance teams are there to keep the president safe, but they are still under his or her ultimate command. Simplistic? Not really.

If you work for a company, you will do what your manager/vp/ceo directs you to do, or you will resign or be fired. It doesn't matter that you disagree with it. As a citizen you can refuse to do something, but as an employee at will you can be terminated over it. But at least you get to ask "why". In a lot of companies, you can even argue your point. You can try to persuade your team and manager. You are allowed to try at least, in some companies.

The military is different. You aren't given all the answers, you are just given orders. You can't ask why and you certainly don't get to say no. It doesn't have to make sense. You just have to do it. And if the chair of the joint chiefs sends down an order to change course and head east. That is where you are going to take your plane. Or you will stand down and be replaced and court martialed.

Look up the term "brought before the drum head" for what can happen quite legally within the system.

It's not hollywood. Hollywood follows how things work and glamorizes it, but they don't make up the system.

Organizational behavior, especially in the military is a fascinating study. It works because the people in the system have been trained to behave in a particular way, without all the information you would get in the real world. And they are trained to do it from their first day on the job in ways that breaks down free thought and demands obedience.

[EndlessWire]

30. Didn't the House

recently introduce a bill to prevent self pardoning?

[getagrip_already]

37. dunno, but what effect does the house introducing a bill..

have when the senate won't even bring it up, and trump would surely veto it?

And then there is the whole issue of the constitution, which congress can't over ride with legislation. It would have to be a constitutional amendment. And even in the best of cases, takes years.

[EndlessWire]

41. Wow, you

give up easily. Sometimes, an action is still useful even if it won't succeed. I don't think that it hurts to have legislation pending during a time when the big Orange Turd might be tempted to pardon himself. It's an obstacle, a speed bump.

It was my understanding that the C. is silent as to whether a pRes can pardon himself. Also, it should be very interesting to see the blanket, overreaching pardons he lays out over the whole GOP, family, and friends (he doesn't really have any, so, acquaintances.)

Sometimes you just have to try.

[getagrip_already]

45. not giving up.... being realistic

The question seemed to be that because the house introduced a bill, the potus couldn't do something. It doesn't. It just puts members on record for a particular issue, but it isn't law until the senate passes the same bill and either the potus signs it or both houses over ride the veto.

You do have to try. It is usually a craftily worded bill to put the other party on record in opposition. The senate does it also. I'd call it politics but that would be redundant.

You can read the constitution. The section mentioning pardons is brief and absolute. It uses the phrase "for any and all crimes against the united states" and ends there. It doesn't say one way or another if there are any limits, but it such a clear statement that it could legitimately be argued tht a potus can pardon anything or anyone, even themselves.

But it is much more murky than that in real law apparently. I'm told you have to look back at English legal history, at the definition of what a pardon is, and then you find what it can and can't be used for. That's why he can't pardon future crimes, only past ones. And there is a case to be made that you cant issue a pardon to a coconspirator, or issue one with corrupt intent (you can kill my opponent and I will pardon you).

But that is a decision the 6-3 scotus will eventually be asked to make.

[Tom Traubert]

6. He may have to . . .

If he wants a pardon from Pence. Biden already committed to not pardoning Trump. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/15/joe-biden-pledges-not-to-pardon-trump-260147.

Trump and Ivanka look to be facing some significant legal peril. Whether Trump tries to negotiate something is a question. He’d have to negotiate with various State governments too.

[getagrip_already]

14. trump could simply pardon himself.....

The constitution doesn't forbid it and it has never been tested. There was a doj ruling at one point that a potus could. But it would end up in scotus. a 6-3 scotus.

[Tom Traubert]

18. I'm not buying it.

It is contrary the basic tenet that no one person is above the law. Don’t you think Nixon would have tried it were there any chance that it would hold?

In any event, even were he to pardon himself, that would not preclude New York State or NYC DA Cyrus Vance from prosecuting him. If he fraudulently filed federal tax returns, he almost certainly defrauded the State of NY too.

[getagrip_already]

26. but not if scotus blocked that as well....

But lets say scotus didn't act to block it and vance did try to extradite him. So what? He would be in a country where he couldn't be touched, even if he were charged with child pedophilia and murder. That is true of any person in a non-extradition country.

As long as he is potus, he can get away with an awful lot. It's a weakness and a strength in our system. But he can get away.

[Tom Traubert]

32. If you're suggesting Trump will leave everything behind and move to Russia

Great. Good riddance. The reality is Chief Justice Robert’s likely would never agree to allow Trump to pardon himself irrespective of the makeup of the Court. Robert’s is extremely concerned about the institutional integrity of SCOTUS under his watch. Allowing Trump to pardon himself would undermine that entirely. I doubt even conservative ideologues would allow that.

[getagrip_already]

36. I hope you are right, but roberts is just one vote, and we only have 3.....

We would need one other to swing over. That vote doesn't seem to exist, but who knows. Maybe one will be so afraid of what would happen next they would stop it.

So far, the tea leaves don't point that way, but we can hope and prepare.

[Jirel]

7. Nope. Still is never going to happen.

Narcissism will always trump common sense and survival instinct. This was a pustule who bankrupted a casino and still thought he was the greatest businessman ever. The same thing will hold true here - he’ll be convinced they can’t touch him, it’s fake news, and he can just bluster it away.

[C_U_L8R]

8. Mike Pence may want to renegotiate

The price of a pardon just went way up.

[5X]

10. Putin might just consider him used and damaged goods on Nov. 4th.

[LisaL]

11. He is not resigning.

First of all, he is already on the ballot. People are already voting.
I don't think he could be taken off the ballot at this time.

[Statistical]

15. Never going to happen. People don't realize narcacsism isn't just a trait it is a disorder

Narcissists genuinely believe the world revolves around them and they are the smartest person in the room. Narcissism is a mental disorder which disrupts normal thinking and logic. Someone without narcissism for sure would make plans like that. They would have a way out, a backup.

Trump would more likely eat his own gun to avoid prison after it becomes too late to do anything else then to "plan to fail". How can he fail he is the smartest guy in the room? How can he fail he has run a con for 40+ years now and gotten away with it. How can he fail he even got the stupid IRS to pay him $70M? How can he fail he won the Presidency when he wasn't even trying to win?

Predictions for 2020/2021
1) Trump will not resign
2) Trump will not flee to an extradition country.
3) He may (not 100% of this one) not see a day in prison. This a country built on different rules for the rich.

[LisaL]

19. But Trump isn't rich.

[Tom Traubert]

16. He may have to . . .

If he wants a pardon from Pence. Biden already committed to not pardoning Trump. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/15/joe-biden-pledges-not-to-pardon-trump-260147.

Trump and Ivanka look to be facing some significant legal peril. Whether Trump tries to negotiate a pardon is a question. If he gave up on the Supreme Court and he and Pence both agreed to resign immediately and turn over the Presidency to Pelosi, it may be worth considering. But he’s never going to do that. He’d have to negotiate with Gov. Cuomo and the NYAG too.

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

21. do we have a treaty w dubai?

you know it will be a place w a drumph property.

[getagrip_already]

27. he wouldn't go to an arab country......

Too much chance something could happen to him. He would want a country we wouldn't invade or send missiles into. A nucular country with an advanced threat system.

That list is short.

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

31. indonesia then?

eta, course, princess ivanka might have something to say about it.

[Johnny2X2X]

23. Not because if his taxes

This story is embarrassing to him, but it’s not going to bring him down.

[gristy]

25. I think he'll just kill himself

Hitler in the bunker and all that.

[Aristus]

40. For all the talk of "Narcissists won't do this or narcissists won't do that",

suicide is definitely something they do.

Roman Emperor Nero's dying words upon his suicide: "What an artist the world is losing!"

[rusty fender]

39. So which agents posted all

over the Eastern Seaboard are going to take him in to custody? On what charge?

I guess that you are assuming that Vance or James will have indicted him before January 20th, but that is a huge “if”.

It is comforting to think that Trumpass will be arrested an will go to jail, but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of steps to be taken before we get there, and the odds that we get there are enormous and stacked against us.

[Amishman]

48. yup, won't have charges ready to go on the 20th.

and I don't expect it to ever happen. Here is why.

We are a deeply divided country, about to elect a man dedicated to mending the fabric of our nation. I don't expect Biden to want the unrest and possible violence from Trump's diehard supporters when he is preparing to try and fix the damage done by Trump's presidency. As satisfying as it would be to see Trump behind bars, I don't see it happening. Trump will be left off the hook to protect the greater good of this country.

[onenote]

46. He's never going to resign

You can take it to the bank

There have been countless predictions on DU that Trump was going to quit, going all the way back to before the 2026 republican convention. They’ve all been predictably wrong. And so are suggestions that he’s quitting before or after Election Day.

[Le Roi de Pot]

47. He won't flee .. but will get pence to pardon him.

I doubt that will cover any criminality over tax evasion though

[Awsi Dooger]

52. You had it correct all along

Don't succumb to the sucker adjuster mentality. That will screw you up for the rest of your life...overreacting in absurd fashion.

Trump is not going to resign. He's not going to run. He is in far less legal jeopardy than posters here like to pretend. Even phony billionaires have massive benefit of a doubt within the legal system, and high priced skilled lawyers