Just so we're all clear, many Germans heard hitler speak and thought he was nuts and a clown, too

[unblock]

The combination of fervent support from maybe 30% of the country plus enough violence and threats from his supporters plus some norm-breaking executive actions was enough for him to get complete control over Germany.

We need to vote Donnie and the republicans out bigly in November, of course.

But more, we need to not pretend like this is a normal election against normal people. They do not play by our rules. He is already trying to steal the election and he is already fomenting violence.

The "enabling act" that gave hitler dictatorial powers was passed with hitlers armed thugs intimidating Germany's equivalent of Congress. We need to be prepared for him to try to "win" the election that sort of way.

Think "brooks brothers riot" from the election of 2000, but this time with heavily armed proud boys.

Any other election this would be wacky tin foil hat stuff. But Donnie has said all the elements of this.

This time, the tin foil hat scenario is to think Donnie and all his supporters will sit back election night, let the chips fall where they may, and graciously accept losing.

*that* you'd have to be crazy to believe.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Yikes. Well, I wasn't scared before...

But this possibility does scare me.

There is nothing gracious about tRump or his followers.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Here we go again...

There is little to compare the US in 2020 with Germany in 1920.

Germany had just lost WWI and was in the midst of a severe recession. The Soviets were massing on the western border and drooling at the thought of taking over what was left of German industry, leading to bloody takedowns of Communist parties in Germany.

Those German industrialists left around were more afraid of Stalin than they were of Hitler. Hitler as a local lowlife who they thought they could control. Thought they could...

The SA was a paramilitary group of up to 3 million. They were crude and badly trained, but they did have some sort of organization. Boogaloo, and Proud, Boys and others aren't anything like the SA or SS. They do not have the sense of mission those others had; nor do they have the discipline. And it was the SA that made the rest of it possible.

No doubt someone like Bannon could try to be our Rohm, but even he could fall way short. The rest of Trump's crew falls sadly short.

So, no. We have over 300 years of a very stable democracy. We have problems, but nothing near the instability of Germany in the 20s and 30s.

In Germany, the Nazi Party was a cancer that spread to the world. In the US, Trumpistry is just one more blip in our history.

[unblock]

4. I'm not suggesting everything about Hitler will repeat in the form of donnie

Yes there are differences and many things will play out differently. I'm not suggesting he'd try to violently conquer the world to systematically exterminate millions.

I am suggesting that he's an authoritarian sh*t who has nothing but contempt for democracy and the voting process, he wants to win by any means necessary and has zero problem with violence, in fact he likes it if it's in support of him.


In short, just because this situation isn't exactly like 1930s Germany doesn't mean there aren't similarities and it doesn't mean that *some* of the events from the rise of other authoritarians can't happen here.


Fact of the matter is, we are already under weak authoritarian rule. We can't just fight to win an election. We have to fight to make sure the election counts as well.
That is not a given with today's Republican Party and their control of certain state offices and certain courts

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Yes, he is. But he is also a weak one with no vision or reason for being except power itself. I am..

suggesting that our system is strong enough to defeat him, even though it might be messy.

We have always had to fight to keep elections honest. Remember the voting machines dumped in the Chicago River by Daley and the Democrats? Nixon wanted to make a point of that, but was reminded that Republicans were doing worse things down around Cairo and he shouldn't wake up the press about that.

Jimmy Walker bragged about stealing votes, and the NYC Tammany Hall machine ran things for years. He was pretty popular, though, since he actually did good things for New York. The attitude was that all should share the wealth.

Down South, we all know the story. It was so bad congress and the courts had to step in to stop it. Now that those sanctions are gone, we'll see how the black vote goes down there.

In short, as far as vote stealing goes, Trump is an amateur and will likely prove to be as bad at it as he is at everything else.

But keep our eyes open and out powder dry-- always.

[NNadir]

16. Thank you for addressing this hydra.

Every day around here, we have people assuming that Trump is competent enough to bring down a 200 + year old democracy.

He can't even engage in clear linear thought for 5 minutes.

He WILL be swwpt away.

[msongs]

3. one suspects overwhelming majority of germans shared his beliefs and doubters were few nt

[unblock]

5. Most historians put his support around 30% afaik

Well once he became a dictator, of course very few people dared say they didn't support him...

[qazplm135]

12. That doesn't mean the other 70 percent

thought he was crazy.

His initial stuff was relatively tame compared to what he ended up doing. He didn't start with kill the Jews, even after he gained power he did it in stages like a frog in hot water.

[uriel1972]

14. oh many shared his anti-semitism that's for sure

I must point out that Stalin's instructions for the German Communists not to interfere did a lot of harm.

[malaise]

6. The difference is that there is public outrage in the US

and that is a huge difference

[unblock]

7. There needs to be, and we need to make sure it is enough.

[DBoon]

8. also financial support from wealthy German industrialists

helped the Nazi Party gain power.

[treestar]

9. Good point though Hitler was more coherent

And could organize better - Hitler would not have appointed incompetents to positions they knew nothing about.

The House went Democratic, so Twitler could not get his "Enabling Act."

[dalton99a]

10. Don't ever, ever give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt.

[KentuckyWoman]

11. I only partly see it.

I believe he has a path to steal the election and will try. Controlling the country on the level of Nazi Germany will be next to impossible tho.

My hope if he manages to steal it, McConnell loses. That would really screw up that whole family.

A girl can dream.

[UTUSN]

15. K&R