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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis 1988 analysis of Trump's handwriting is terrifying
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/10/this-1988-analysis-of-trumps-handwriting-is-terrifying/Many have commented on the oddity of Donald Trumps huge and illegible signature. When Trump announced his candidacy, I was reminded of the time in about 1988 when his handwriting was analyzed by Felix Klein, a world-renowned graphologist, author and court-recognized document examiner. It was during a master-level seminar that I attended in NYC while pursuing my doctoral degree in clinical psychology. I had become interested in graphology several years earlier after reading that it was taught in European and Israeli graduate-level psychology programs and used clinically and for business personnel selection. I was further intrigued after learning how clinical projective tests, such as the House-Tree-Person and Kinetic Family Drawings Test, shared many interpretative similarities with gestalt handwriting analysis. Although children learn cursive using a standard writing form template (New York schools through the 1960s taught the Palmer Method or one of its derivatives), within a year or so most childrens writing starts to differentiate from that model. These writing changes, which are unconscious symbolic representations, can reveal a persons developmental history, either positive, when their physical and emotional needs were met, or traumatic, if they were not. Personality characteristics and subsequent behaviors are largely determined by our primal and childhood experiences, for better or worse.
Klein had presented our study group with a full page of Trumps adult handwriting, with only his gender, age (about 40) and handedness (right), but without his signature which might identify him. We were all taken aback, having not seen anything quite like it before, and we each took a turn analyzing it. After this exercise, Klein revealed who the writer was and showed us Trumps overly large, narcissistic signature (with which we are all too familiar now, as he loves to show it off when he signs bills). Klein began his analysis saying that Trumps writing revealed his immense insecurity, aggressiveness and rigid inability to think and perceive the world accurately. He said Trump was grandiose, extremely narcissistic and paranoid, so much so that he considered him delusional. Moreover, Trump was unable to relate to other humans with any degree of emotional attachment or consideration. People to him were objects, only useful to feed his insatiable need for adoration and attention. In looking specifically at his signature, Klein explained that Trumps rigidly angular letter connections formed what he called sharks teeth, which is indicative of rage and the capacity for extremely aggressive, acting out behaviors.
Now I should explain that Felix Klein was a very soft-spoken and mild-mannered gentleman in the old-school Viennese tradition. However, as he continued to speak, he became visibly upset and agitated which surprised me. Attempting to calm him, I said something to the effect that, since Trump was just a vulgar real estate developer, there was no need to get upset. He continued that Trump was a very dangerous individual, capable of all manner of criminal behavior and was a menace to society. He went on to say that Trump was hypomanic and determined to get whatever he wanted, describing him as a screaming locomotive running down the tracks without breaks, adding, and God help anyone who tries to stop him! Once again I tried to talk him down without success, whereupon he stopped me in my tracks, with these unforgettable, exact next words: Ive probably examined well over 200,000 handwriting samples over more than 60 years, and Trumps writing is one of the worst Ive ever seen. In fact, the only writing that comes to mind that is as bad is Charles Mansons.
To say I was dumbfounded would not be an exaggeration, but I have had a long time to reflect on why Klein became so upset, as this presidency has proven him right. I believe Trumps writing triggered such a strong emotional reaction because of the year Klein had spent in Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps where he was forced to entertain his captors by analyzing their handwriting at their parties. I cannot imagine if he were still alive how he would have reacted to Trump becoming president, not to mention his setting up his own concentration camps and traumatizing little children by separating them from their parents and placing them in cages.
One more paragraph at link.
R0ckyRac00n
(84 posts)Graphology is a pseudoscience.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)The poster is correct. Graphology is AT BEST junk science. It is at worst evil and undemocratic when it has been used to convict innocent people. Empiracal shows it to be junk science, unless it's used as a cool party trick. Then, it's just entertainment.
Forensic document examination is a forensic science. That is not the same as graphology.
You are mistaken.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)warmfeet
(3,321 posts)We must always try to be aware of the potential for confirmation bias. Just because something seems to confirm our beliefs about someone does not mean it is true, necessarily. Fact checking is important and graphology is pseudoscience, not actual science.
kiri
(794 posts)Handwriting "analysis" is a total nonsense. In a test conducted by James Randi, 70% of the 'experts' could not even tell the difference between a male and female writer.
obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)That Felix Kline really knows his stuff--and this was from over 30 years ago.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)I'm not going to waste time & effort refuting everybody who flames me for having posted this article, but I can assure you that banks, etc. would not waste money if this wasn't real.
My friend was amazingly gifted and very well trained.
And extremely accurate, as was Felix Klein.
For those doubters out there, I challenge you to open your minds just a teeny bit to the realities that exist beyond a very narrow scope of perception.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)Wicked Blue
(5,832 posts)I do feel handwriting can give some insight into a person.
My own is messy and the ends of words are often not finished. I freely admit it shows I'm disorganized and impatient.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Thanks for sharing your own insights.
Handwriting definitely does not "lie."
PatSeg
(47,445 posts)an exact science, but I do believe personality traits can come through a persons handwriting. Too many people here are quick to condescendingly call something junk science. Graphology has been with us for a long time and though limited in its use, it is not totally without merit.
Thanks for posting the article. It was very interesting. I've always found Trump's handwriting very disturbing.
Glad you found the article interesting & of value.
I agree about his signature. Disturbing!
PatSeg
(47,445 posts)I've ever seen and watching him sign it really looks threatening. Like some villain in a horror film.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)It's as if he is inflicting pain (and enjoying it!) When signing.
I found the shark teeth comment interesting. Creepy!
PatSeg
(47,445 posts)something or someone. Very aggressive and mean. The shark's teeth observation says it all.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,611 posts)Graphology shouldn't be mistaken for Forensic analysis or used in a court of law but it has its place. I found the article interesting.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,346 posts)TheRickles
(2,063 posts)If he'd been blinded about the author (as his students were), then those conclusions would have been even more striking. Still, if Trump signature stood out over 200,000 others, that says something.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)I find it fascinating as well.
tanyev
(42,559 posts)Goodheart
(5,324 posts)on this board in the past.
It's the signature of a RAGING NARCISSIST. One doesn't need to be an expert to see that.
"I'm here, I'm big and bold, I need to be noticed, I'm the strongest signature ever".
He's one sick asshole.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)The "shark teeth" aspect is just creepy - beyond "its" narcissism.
Yes, he is one sick asshole!
FM123
(10,053 posts)The truth is that Felix Klein was spot on.
Everything he said turned out to be true - Klein saw it in trump's writing while we all saw it in trump's real time behavior.
He continued that Trump was a very dangerous individual, capable of all manner of criminal behavior and was a menace to society. He went on to say that Trump was hypomanic and determined to get whatever he wanted, describing him as a screaming locomotive running down the tracks without breaks, adding, and God help anyone who tries to stop him!
niyad
(113,315 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)niyad
(113,315 posts)nearly choked. Appallingly, he has exceeded even my most dire expectations.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Fascinating you used to do this! Would love to hear more about the process.
Yikes. This asshole is really "something else" for lack of any other term to define the narcissistic, murderous jerk.
Gives me the chills.
Thanks for sharing your own experience! Most appreciated!
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)llashram
(6,265 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)It is really creepy as hell, isn't it?
kskiska
(27,045 posts)3catwoman3
(23,988 posts)...at all. Not a chance.
He and his first sister both went to Catholic grade schools and learned cursive by the Palmer method. Their handwriting is exactly the same, to the point that, on one occasion, when she mailed him a letter, I wondered why he had mailed something to himself.
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)Her handwriting looks like the charts above the blackboard back in the day. Nearly every letter Palmer perfect, every letter connected.
Mine is highly affected. Neat & readable, but many flourishes.
Now, my signature is different.
Early in my career I was responsible for air quality sampling on the exhaust hoods of the laboratory.
I did some of the analyses, and some folks from Analytical did the bulk.
Anyway, I was filling out all the paperwork (no laptops or networks in those days.
Signing everything for both federal & state 3 times.
My sig changed to do it very fast. Now, you make out the "G" at the begininng. Somehow though, I do it more or less the same each time, 43+ years later.
I could mimic my wife's. She wouldn't even bother trying to do mine!
NJCher
(35,675 posts)based on the book written by a friend and business associate who Melania screwed over, I would say she is. The friend said Melania is Donald's biggest supporter.
I know how to analyze handwriting. I am self-taught. Another interpretation of the signature is that it's all about money. Whenever you find arrows in a person's handwriting, be on the lookout for that.
I don't like to do handwriting analysis because, for want of a better expression, it takes a lot out of you. However, I used to do it a lot on my own behalf and also for my spouse, who regularly does business deals with people and he wants a "take" on them. Should he sign a contract with them, do business with them? He also used to ask me to analyze the handwriting of people in particular situations and to see if I could see something that would explain the behavior. Having lived in Italy and France for 20 years, he knew that it was regularly used on employment applications.
I have never heard of anyone being convicted in a court of law based on handwriting analysis.
Also, I can get a certain amount from a signature, but I need a full page of writing to do an analysis.
When I used it for my own purposes, I did so at job interviews and also in my part-time occupation as landlord. At job interviews I would analyze the interviewer's handwriting and I could do it upside down, from my position on the other side of the desk. I could spot who I wanted to work for and with whom the job work not work out. In the days before instant online references on tenants, I used to use it to select tenants for longevity and financial stability (as seen through handwriting that was methodical).
As a teacher and in the days before computers, I used to have to read essays of students that were written by hand. This was on the cusp of when students started using computers, and thank heavens because I hated reading those essays. I would get information that I didn't want to know. I taught students in community colleges, state universities, and prestigious, expensive schools. In every situation I saw situations and conditions in the students' backgrounds that bothered me tremendously, such as living in a family that did not necessarily support the student's goal for a higher education. I saw mental dysfunctionality, depression, ech, I don't even want to think of it.
I still use handwriting analysis every day of my life, but only for "additional information." When I find "garland" handwriting, then I know that's a person I will enjoy knowing.
As far as Trump's signature, I, too, got what they are saying but interpreted it a little different, such as the money example I cited above. I also perceived him as a show-off, hungry for attention, and I also got his indifference and lack of caring for other people. He just doesn't have the "human" dimension.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)But a well-trained, fully-qualified expert would be able to discern her bs as forgery.
Perhaps they teach this style in russian ASSet school?
edhopper
(33,580 posts)Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Intersting.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)But, a a psychotherapist of many years, I prefer the projective tests such as Rorschach, to the quantitative testing modalities.
Seems many here are compelled to attack this perspective. Interesting.
niyad
(113,315 posts)The analysis read that I was coldly, clinically logical, with no emotions. I know that they are very useful, of course. But there always has to be one weirdo!
That's not my perception of you. But, hey, I'm not analyzing your handwriting.
niyad
(113,315 posts)Cozmo
(1,402 posts)It looks identical to her husband's. Not only does never have an original thought or deed, she's a psycho just like him. I do believe that your handwriting tells a lot about you, just look at the signatures of serial killers, especially Adolf Hitler. Just saying.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)in Russian ASSet school, since they both have similar signatures. Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
I know, it's creepy as hell.
FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)Interesting. Thanks for posting!
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Ty for the kick.
Glad hou found this of interest.
DavidDvorkin
(19,477 posts)And what does the Ouija board have to say?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)or his daily horoscope.
Rubbish.
That's your opinion & you are certainly entitled to it.
Please be aware not all share your perception.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Stay away from the brown acid.
Silent3
(15,212 posts)And evidence does not favor the validity of graphology.
ecstatic
(32,704 posts)that might make graphologists think poorly of me. The lettering style used in my signature has no relation to my everyday handwriting. Everything is different--from the size, to the number of arches and the shapes. I'm not sure if that would make me come across like a psycho or what.
The way my signature came about was I really admired my dad's signature which was small and delicate with fancy lettering.
I love the look of my signature but it's becoming harder to maintain.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)But a qualified professional would be able to tell.
Thx for sharing.
Kaleva
(36,301 posts)"The Glaring Difference Between Graphology & Forensic Handwriting Expert
Confusing a forensic handwriting expert for a graphologist can land you on the wrong end of a correction lecture. The practice of graphology requires relatively a simple certification, which can be completed in just a few months while to become a certified forensic document examiner one is required to train a minimum of two years before embarking on certification which could take another year and a half to two years. Whose analysis and opinion would you trust in a court of law?"
https://www.drexdoclab.com/the-glaring-difference-between-graphology-forensic-handwriting-expert/
"Graphology was also dismissed as a pseudo-science by the skeptic James Randi in 1991.[32]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphology#:~:text=of%20this%20hypothesis.-,Professional%20status,considered%20to%20be%20a%20pseudoscience.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,611 posts)Thank you for posting.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and phrenology. Sad to see people embracing embarrassing pseudoscience.