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SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 08:33 AM Oct 2020

This 1988 analysis of Trump's handwriting is terrifying

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/10/this-1988-analysis-of-trumps-handwriting-is-terrifying/

Many have commented on the oddity of Donald Trump’s huge and illegible signature. When Trump announced his candidacy, I was reminded of the time in about 1988 when his handwriting was analyzed by Felix Klein, a world-renowned graphologist, author and court-recognized document examiner. It was during a master-level seminar that I attended in NYC while pursuing my doctoral degree in clinical psychology. I had become interested in graphology several years earlier after reading that it was taught in European and Israeli graduate-level psychology programs and used clinically and for business personnel selection. I was further intrigued after learning how clinical projective tests, such as the House-Tree-Person and Kinetic Family Drawings Test, shared many interpretative similarities with gestalt handwriting analysis. Although children learn cursive using a standard writing form template (New York schools through the 1960’s taught the Palmer Method or one of its derivatives), within a year or so most children’s writing starts to differentiate from that model. These writing changes, which are unconscious symbolic representations, can reveal a person’s developmental history, either positive, when their physical and emotional needs were met, or traumatic, if they were not. Personality characteristics and subsequent behaviors are largely determined by our primal and childhood experiences, for better or worse.

Klein had presented our study group with a full page of Trump’s adult handwriting, with only his gender, age (about 40) and handedness (right), but without his signature which might identify him. We were all taken aback, having not seen anything quite like it before, and we each took a turn analyzing it. After this exercise, Klein revealed who the writer was and showed us Trump’s overly large, narcissistic signature (with which we are all too familiar now, as he loves to show it off when he signs bills). Klein began his analysis saying that Trump’s writing revealed his immense insecurity, aggressiveness and rigid inability to think and perceive the world accurately. He said Trump was grandiose, extremely narcissistic and paranoid, so much so that he considered him delusional. Moreover, Trump was unable to relate to other humans with any degree of emotional attachment or consideration. People to him were objects, only useful to feed his insatiable need for adoration and attention. In looking specifically at his signature, Klein explained that Trump’s rigidly angular letter connections formed what he called shark’s teeth, which is indicative of rage and the capacity for extremely aggressive, acting out behaviors.

Now I should explain that Felix Klein was a very soft-spoken and mild-mannered gentleman in the old-school Viennese tradition. However, as he continued to speak, he became visibly upset and agitated which surprised me. Attempting to calm him, I said something to the effect that, since Trump was just a vulgar real estate developer, there was no need to get upset. He continued that Trump was a very dangerous individual, capable of all manner of criminal behavior and was a menace to society. He went on to say that Trump was hypomanic and determined to get whatever he wanted, describing him as a “screaming locomotive running down the tracks without breaks,” adding, “and God help anyone who tries to stop him!” Once again I tried to talk him down without success, whereupon he stopped me in my tracks, with these unforgettable, exact next words: “I’ve probably examined well over 200,000 handwriting samples over more than 60 years, and Trump’s writing is one of the worst I’ve ever seen. In fact, the only writing that comes to mind that is as bad is Charles Manson’s.”

To say I was dumbfounded would not be an exaggeration, but I have had a long time to reflect on why Klein became so upset, as this presidency has proven him right. I believe Trump’s writing triggered such a strong emotional reaction because of the year Klein had spent in Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps where he was forced to “entertain” his captors by analyzing their handwriting at their parties. I cannot imagine if he were still alive how he would have reacted to Trump becoming president, not to mention his setting up his own “concentration camps” and traumatizing little children by separating them from their parents and placing them in cages.

One more paragraph at link.
61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This 1988 analysis of Trump's handwriting is terrifying (Original Post) SheltieLover Oct 2020 OP
Graphology R0ckyRac00n Oct 2020 #1
That is your opinion. SheltieLover Oct 2020 #2
No, that is a fact, nit an opinion obamanut2012 Oct 2020 #9
You are correct. I have a friend who is a graphologist and she says it's crap. Happyhippychick Oct 2020 #18
Quite so. warmfeet Oct 2020 #23
Handwriting "analysis" is a total nonsense kiri Oct 2020 #24
Yup obamanut2012 Oct 2020 #10
Wow--so interesting. panader0 Oct 2020 #3
I had a friend years ago who was contracted with numerous fiancial institutions for hiring decisions SheltieLover Oct 2020 #5
LOL, this belongs in Creative Speculation. nt USALiberal Oct 2020 #6
Yup, graphology is proven to be junk science obamanut2012 Oct 2020 #11
+100 Wicked Blue Oct 2020 #21
Interesting! SheltieLover Oct 2020 #31
I know that handwriting analysis is not PatSeg Oct 2020 #53
Yw SheltieLover Oct 2020 #54
That is the weirdest signature PatSeg Oct 2020 #56
I couldn't agree more! SheltieLover Oct 2020 #57
Yes, he looks like he is attacking PatSeg Oct 2020 #58
That my take too MustLoveBeagles Oct 2020 #59
We don't need pseudoscience to tell us what is easily observable. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2020 #4
Too bad Klein knew who wrote the Trump samples. TheRickles Oct 2020 #26
Fascinating!! Thanks for sharing this. nt LAS14 Oct 2020 #7
YW! 👍 SheltieLover Oct 2020 #8
Very interesting. tanyev Oct 2020 #12
Now, I don't claim to be a "graphologist" but I've voiced similar opinions about trump's signature Goodheart Oct 2020 #13
Quite discerning on your part! SheltieLover Oct 2020 #32
Regardless of how anyone wants to paint this FM123 Oct 2020 #14
Fascinating. Thank you for posting! niyad Oct 2020 #15
You are most welcome! SheltieLover Oct 2020 #33
I used to do graphoanalysis, and the first time I saw the murdering orange traitor's signature, I niyad Oct 2020 #36
Shivers... SheltieLover Oct 2020 #39
Apropos of Manson, there is that gif comparing tRump & Manson's identical hinky expressions. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2020 #16
Gives me the chills! SheltieLover Oct 2020 #34
this llashram Oct 2020 #17
Thanks for the kick. SheltieLover Oct 2020 #40
Melania has copied his handwriting style. kskiska Oct 2020 #19
I would not be able to mimic my husband's handwriting... 3catwoman3 Oct 2020 #25
My Wife & I, Too ProfessorGAC Oct 2020 #49
maybe we have two sociopaths NJCher Oct 2020 #29
Interesting! SheltieLover Oct 2020 #35
Sorry, Graphology Isn't a Real Science edhopper Oct 2020 #20
Thanks for posting Sherman A1 Oct 2020 #22
I thought it was interesting, too, Sherman SheltieLover Oct 2020 #37
For my own amusement one time, many years ago, I took one of those kinds of tests online. niyad Oct 2020 #41
Lol SheltieLover Oct 2020 #45
Snort! niyad Oct 2020 #46
Lol SheltieLover Oct 2020 #48
Check out Melanoma's signature! Cozmo Oct 2020 #27
Maybe they teach how to sign your name like a psycho SheltieLover Oct 2020 #38
K & R Recommended FakeNoose Oct 2020 #28
Yw! SheltieLover Oct 2020 #43
What about his astrological sign? DavidDvorkin Oct 2020 #30
Kooky pseudo-science. May as well post about his most recent palm-reading Tarc Oct 2020 #42
Well SheltieLover Oct 2020 #44
It's your own trip, Wavy Gravy Tarc Oct 2020 #47
Whether something is pseudo science or not is a matter of evidence, not perception Silent3 Oct 2020 #50
That was really interesting. And now I see I have an issue ecstatic Oct 2020 #51
Interesting! SheltieLover Oct 2020 #52
Interesting but graphology is pseudoscience Kaleva Oct 2020 #55
K&R MustLoveBeagles Oct 2020 #60
Absolute garbage. Right up there with astrology Codeine Oct 2020 #61

obamanut2012

(26,076 posts)
9. No, that is a fact, nit an opinion
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:49 AM
Oct 2020

The poster is correct. Graphology is AT BEST junk science. It is at worst evil and undemocratic when it has been used to convict innocent people. Empiracal shows it to be junk science, unless it's used as a cool party trick. Then, it's just entertainment.

Forensic document examination is a forensic science. That is not the same as graphology.

You are mistaken.

warmfeet

(3,321 posts)
23. Quite so.
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 11:12 AM
Oct 2020

We must always try to be aware of the potential for confirmation bias. Just because something seems to confirm our beliefs about someone does not mean it is true, necessarily. Fact checking is important and graphology is pseudoscience, not actual science.

kiri

(794 posts)
24. Handwriting "analysis" is a total nonsense
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 11:14 AM
Oct 2020

Handwriting "analysis" is a total nonsense. In a test conducted by James Randi, 70% of the 'experts' could not even tell the difference between a male and female writer.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
5. I had a friend years ago who was contracted with numerous fiancial institutions for hiring decisions
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:28 AM
Oct 2020

I'm not going to waste time & effort refuting everybody who flames me for having posted this article, but I can assure you that banks, etc. would not waste money if this wasn't real.

My friend was amazingly gifted and very well trained.

And extremely accurate, as was Felix Klein.

For those doubters out there, I challenge you to open your minds just a teeny bit to the realities that exist beyond a very narrow scope of perception.

Wicked Blue

(5,832 posts)
21. +100
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 11:09 AM
Oct 2020

I do feel handwriting can give some insight into a person.
My own is messy and the ends of words are often not finished. I freely admit it shows I'm disorganized and impatient.

PatSeg

(47,445 posts)
53. I know that handwriting analysis is not
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:03 PM
Oct 2020

an exact science, but I do believe personality traits can come through a persons handwriting. Too many people here are quick to condescendingly call something junk science. Graphology has been with us for a long time and though limited in its use, it is not totally without merit.

Thanks for posting the article. It was very interesting. I've always found Trump's handwriting very disturbing.

PatSeg

(47,445 posts)
56. That is the weirdest signature
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:17 PM
Oct 2020

I've ever seen and watching him sign it really looks threatening. Like some villain in a horror film.


SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
57. I couldn't agree more!
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:19 PM
Oct 2020

It's as if he is inflicting pain (and enjoying it!) When signing.

I found the shark teeth comment interesting. Creepy!

PatSeg

(47,445 posts)
58. Yes, he looks like he is attacking
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:28 PM
Oct 2020

something or someone. Very aggressive and mean. The shark's teeth observation says it all.

MustLoveBeagles

(11,611 posts)
59. That my take too
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:35 PM
Oct 2020

Graphology shouldn't be mistaken for Forensic analysis or used in a court of law but it has its place. I found the article interesting.

TheRickles

(2,063 posts)
26. Too bad Klein knew who wrote the Trump samples.
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 11:21 AM
Oct 2020

If he'd been blinded about the author (as his students were), then those conclusions would have been even more striking. Still, if Trump signature stood out over 200,000 others, that says something.

Goodheart

(5,324 posts)
13. Now, I don't claim to be a "graphologist" but I've voiced similar opinions about trump's signature
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:09 AM
Oct 2020

on this board in the past.

It's the signature of a RAGING NARCISSIST. One doesn't need to be an expert to see that.

"I'm here, I'm big and bold, I need to be noticed, I'm the strongest signature ever".

He's one sick asshole.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
32. Quite discerning on your part!
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 06:47 PM
Oct 2020

The "shark teeth" aspect is just creepy - beyond "its" narcissism.

Yes, he is one sick asshole!

FM123

(10,053 posts)
14. Regardless of how anyone wants to paint this
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 10:33 AM
Oct 2020

The truth is that Felix Klein was spot on.
Everything he said turned out to be true - Klein saw it in trump's writing while we all saw it in trump's real time behavior.

He continued that Trump was a very dangerous individual, capable of all manner of criminal behavior and was a menace to society. He went on to say that Trump was hypomanic and determined to get whatever he wanted, describing him as a “screaming locomotive running down the tracks without breaks,” adding, “and God help anyone who tries to stop him!”

niyad

(113,315 posts)
36. I used to do graphoanalysis, and the first time I saw the murdering orange traitor's signature, I
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 06:52 PM
Oct 2020

nearly choked. Appallingly, he has exceeded even my most dire expectations.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
39. Shivers...
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 06:59 PM
Oct 2020

Fascinating you used to do this! Would love to hear more about the process.

Yikes. This asshole is really "something else" for lack of any other term to define the narcissistic, murderous jerk.

Gives me the chills.

Thanks for sharing your own experience! Most appreciated!

3catwoman3

(23,988 posts)
25. I would not be able to mimic my husband's handwriting...
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 11:21 AM
Oct 2020

...at all. Not a chance.

He and his first sister both went to Catholic grade schools and learned cursive by the Palmer method. Their handwriting is exactly the same, to the point that, on one occasion, when she mailed him a letter, I wondered why he had mailed something to himself.

ProfessorGAC

(65,042 posts)
49. My Wife & I, Too
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 08:07 PM
Oct 2020

Her handwriting looks like the charts above the blackboard back in the day. Nearly every letter Palmer perfect, every letter connected.
Mine is highly affected. Neat & readable, but many flourishes.
Now, my signature is different.
Early in my career I was responsible for air quality sampling on the exhaust hoods of the laboratory.
I did some of the analyses, and some folks from Analytical did the bulk.
Anyway, I was filling out all the paperwork (no laptops or networks in those days.
Signing everything for both federal & state 3 times.
My sig changed to do it very fast. Now, you make out the "G" at the begininng. Somehow though, I do it more or less the same each time, 43+ years later.
I could mimic my wife's. She wouldn't even bother trying to do mine!

NJCher

(35,675 posts)
29. maybe we have two sociopaths
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 11:44 AM
Oct 2020

based on the book written by a friend and business associate who Melania screwed over, I would say she is. The friend said Melania is Donald's biggest supporter.

I know how to analyze handwriting. I am self-taught. Another interpretation of the signature is that it's all about money. Whenever you find arrows in a person's handwriting, be on the lookout for that.

I don't like to do handwriting analysis because, for want of a better expression, it takes a lot out of you. However, I used to do it a lot on my own behalf and also for my spouse, who regularly does business deals with people and he wants a "take" on them. Should he sign a contract with them, do business with them? He also used to ask me to analyze the handwriting of people in particular situations and to see if I could see something that would explain the behavior. Having lived in Italy and France for 20 years, he knew that it was regularly used on employment applications.

I have never heard of anyone being convicted in a court of law based on handwriting analysis.

Also, I can get a certain amount from a signature, but I need a full page of writing to do an analysis.

When I used it for my own purposes, I did so at job interviews and also in my part-time occupation as landlord. At job interviews I would analyze the interviewer's handwriting and I could do it upside down, from my position on the other side of the desk. I could spot who I wanted to work for and with whom the job work not work out. In the days before instant online references on tenants, I used to use it to select tenants for longevity and financial stability (as seen through handwriting that was methodical).

As a teacher and in the days before computers, I used to have to read essays of students that were written by hand. This was on the cusp of when students started using computers, and thank heavens because I hated reading those essays. I would get information that I didn't want to know. I taught students in community colleges, state universities, and prestigious, expensive schools. In every situation I saw situations and conditions in the students' backgrounds that bothered me tremendously, such as living in a family that did not necessarily support the student's goal for a higher education. I saw mental dysfunctionality, depression, ech, I don't even want to think of it.

I still use handwriting analysis every day of my life, but only for "additional information." When I find "garland" handwriting, then I know that's a person I will enjoy knowing.

As far as Trump's signature, I, too, got what they are saying but interpreted it a little different, such as the money example I cited above. I also perceived him as a show-off, hungry for attention, and I also got his indifference and lack of caring for other people. He just doesn't have the "human" dimension.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
35. Interesting!
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 06:52 PM
Oct 2020

But a well-trained, fully-qualified expert would be able to discern her bs as forgery.

Perhaps they teach this style in russian ASSet school?

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
37. I thought it was interesting, too, Sherman
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 06:55 PM
Oct 2020

But, a a psychotherapist of many years, I prefer the projective tests such as Rorschach, to the quantitative testing modalities.

Seems many here are compelled to attack this perspective. Interesting.

niyad

(113,315 posts)
41. For my own amusement one time, many years ago, I took one of those kinds of tests online.
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 07:41 PM
Oct 2020

The analysis read that I was coldly, clinically logical, with no emotions. I know that they are very useful, of course. But there always has to be one weirdo!

Cozmo

(1,402 posts)
27. Check out Melanoma's signature!
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 11:33 AM
Oct 2020

It looks identical to her husband's. Not only does never have an original thought or deed, she's a psycho just like him. I do believe that your handwriting tells a lot about you, just look at the signatures of serial killers, especially Adolf Hitler. Just saying.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
38. Maybe they teach how to sign your name like a psycho
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 06:56 PM
Oct 2020

in Russian ASSet school, since they both have similar signatures. Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

I know, it's creepy as hell.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
42. Kooky pseudo-science. May as well post about his most recent palm-reading
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 07:43 PM
Oct 2020

or his daily horoscope.

Rubbish.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
44. Well
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 07:47 PM
Oct 2020

That's your opinion & you are certainly entitled to it.

Please be aware not all share your perception.

Silent3

(15,212 posts)
50. Whether something is pseudo science or not is a matter of evidence, not perception
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 08:13 PM
Oct 2020

And evidence does not favor the validity of graphology.

ecstatic

(32,704 posts)
51. That was really interesting. And now I see I have an issue
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 08:47 PM
Oct 2020

that might make graphologists think poorly of me. The lettering style used in my signature has no relation to my everyday handwriting. Everything is different--from the size, to the number of arches and the shapes. I'm not sure if that would make me come across like a psycho or what.

The way my signature came about was I really admired my dad's signature which was small and delicate with fancy lettering.

I love the look of my signature but it's becoming harder to maintain.

Kaleva

(36,301 posts)
55. Interesting but graphology is pseudoscience
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:16 PM
Oct 2020

"The Glaring Difference Between Graphology & Forensic Handwriting Expert

Confusing a forensic handwriting expert for a graphologist can land you on the wrong end of a correction lecture. The practice of graphology requires relatively a simple certification, which can be completed in just a few months while to become a certified forensic document examiner one is required to train a minimum of two years before embarking on certification which could take another year and a half to two years. Whose analysis and opinion would you trust in a court of law?"

https://www.drexdoclab.com/the-glaring-difference-between-graphology-forensic-handwriting-expert/

"Graphology was also dismissed as a pseudo-science by the skeptic James Randi in 1991.[32]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphology#:~:text=of%20this%20hypothesis.-,Professional%20status,considered%20to%20be%20a%20pseudoscience.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
61. Absolute garbage. Right up there with astrology
Fri Oct 30, 2020, 09:43 PM
Oct 2020

and phrenology. Sad to see people embracing embarrassing pseudoscience.

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