I think the pandemic and the lockdowns hurt us

[Azathoth]

This election will be studied for years, but I'm going to predict that Dems misread the electorate on the pandemic.

There is *a lot* of economic pain and uncertainty right now in many sectors of the economy, particularly among younger and less-skilled workers who had jobs in hospitality/entertainment/retail/labor etc. Many of these people suffered under Bush's Great Recession, and now they're being decimated again a decade later. And their pain is going largely unnoticed because it's being lost in the maelstrom of chaos we're in right now. In any other election cycle, Disney laying off 26 THOUSAND employees on one day would be a top election headline for weeks. This year it was just another blurb in the business section, along with many similar stories.

As irresponsible and reckless as Trump has been, he's managed to telegraph clearly his desire to "open it all up", which has forced Democrats into becoming the pro-lockdown party. In their rush to position themselves as the pro-science and pro-evidence alternative, they've convinced the public they're willing to shut things down again repeatedly on the word of government doctors. As Trump flagrantly disregarded guidelines on wearing masks, Dems became the scolding parent telling their kids they have to eat their broccoli even if they don't like it because it's good for them. That's partly why the mask issue is such a flashpoint: it's symbolic of Trump being willing to just barrel through recklessly to the other side as quickly as possible, while Dems are hunkered down trying to be responsible parents and preparing for the current state of affairs to last years.

This just isn't a tenable situation and people are getting progressively more tired of it. Most of them also intuitively understand that absent another huge stimulus, the prospect of which is frankly remote if the government remains divided between the two parties, their only hope is to keep the economy open so they can keep some kind of employment. They're not deluded by Fox; they're desperately afraid another round of lockdowns would be catastrophic for them.

Even in deep blue areas, where people once walked around with rubber gloves and tight-fitting surgical masks, I'm seeing people now cramming onto buses and trains with loose masks and scarves hanging down around their chin. It's just a subtle but noticeable change that signals pandemic fatigue has set in. This is the point where people stop listening to the Debbie Downer medical doctor who keeps telling them there's nothing that can be done about their chronic back pain, and they start paying attention to the optimistic-sounding guy on the late-night infomercial who's selling miracle spring water that cures back pain guaranteed for five easy payments of $49.95.

[Hoyt]

1. Think that is very possible. A lot of people -- including Democrats -- weren't into lockdowns. But

trump's admin could have avoided that by pushing masks, testing, tracing, select lockdowns, etc.

Also think the "law and order" BS had an impact, as well as polling errors.

[JCMach1]

3. Social justice protests had a big negative effect

In some places like Miami-Dade

[Hoyt]

5. I agree. People don't like to hear that here, but it didn't help that close to an election. trump

definitely stoked fear. On the other hand, it's hard to tell protesters to cool it when their cause is just.

[JCMach1]

13. Not just fear. It directly stirred ANY racism

Colorism and racism is also a real thing in Latinx communities...

Not to mention white people

[Hoyt]

14. Totally agree. Racism is what won 2016 for trump and kept 2020 close.

[Azathoth]

12. I've heard that repeatedly from a lot of voters

Dems all-out embracing the protests convinced a lot of people their concern about the pandemic was situational and hypocritical rather than genuine.

I've heard that from people I know voted for Biden.

[JCMach1]

15. And frankly, the pandemic has still only directly touched a small %

Of the country.

Once it does, you freaking know. Until then...

[Boogiemack]

18. The Senate not working to relieve the pain on the lower economic folks hurt us.

The Pandemic is not partisan. It has killed many on both side.

[Hoyt]

20. I'll be interested in who the voters blamed for not getting some relief for unemployed even

if GOPers wouldn't go for the entire House stimulus plan. I think we should have separated out enhanced unemployment from the other needs -- like state relief -- and gotten that to people. I get trying to use leverage to get the whole package, but maybe it was too much.

Hopefully, something will get enacted soon.

There is going to be a lot of soul searching on our side. I wish I felt GOPers would do the same.

[Initech]

24. I'm one, I have literally *HATED* every second of this nightmare.

I hate the lockdowns. I hate the distancing. I hate having to constantly wash and sanitize my hands 24 hours a day. I hate the fucking masks. I hate the fact that I can't go anywhere and all of my favorite events and things to do have been canceled, and a lot of my favorite places have gone out of business. I have not been myself since this pandemic began and I am in really bad mental shape because of it. And I feel like until things start getting better with the virus, I will still be like this. It fucking sucks.

[Hoyt]

34. Honestly, I think a lot of folks just decided to take their chances with the virus. Take care.

[Dawson Leery]

2. A hard national shutdown from March to early June was needed.

It did not happen and now hundreds of thousands have died. Many Americans very much like to pound their chests about how tough they are, but once put under strain, they buckle quickly.

[ScratchCat]

4. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just telling you what I hear

Probably 75% of my friends and 90% of my family vote GOP, and based upon them, I can tell you two things that hurt:

1) Most believe, at minimum, Covid-19 is "overblown" and the numbers are not really as high as reported.

2) Most believe that there is certainly discrimination and racism in America, but that "BLM" is a completely false narrative.

To put it all together - while being out of work and inconvenienced due to Covid, they sat home listening to the talking heads on television pretend its 1963 instead of 2020 and said "F this BS, Democrats aren't getting control". This is probably what lead to the larger than expected numbers for the GOP.

Just telling you all how they see it.

[Demsrule86]

6. Covid was not overblown and we are entering the most dangerous part.

I think not making a deal on stimulus was a problem.

[JCMach1]

16. I agree. Deal on standalone stimulus did not help

[Demsrule86]

31. I was livid about this and wanted a deal. Hubs got a job a week ago Monday after seven

months...we were panicked. I can't imagine how folks are dealing right now with no stimulus. Let me be clear, I didn't blame Nancy but I know that others did.

[PoliticAverse]

7. Do you know anyone that didn't vote for Trump in 2016 but did in 2020? n/t

[LeftInTX]

41. I do

He was freaked out over "defund the police"

Mods removed my post over it.

[qanda]

23. I'm sorry your family is racist

As a Black person I find it entirely offensive that so many people keep trying to pin this election on the BLM movement and not the racist behavior of RACISTS.

[rusty fender]

37. This!

[Caliman73]

36. It is sad that people are so ignorant.

This is not directed at you and meant with no offense. It is merely an answer to what you observed in your friends and family.


1) COVID-19 under reported if anything. The deaths are undercounted because there is no standard methodology on how to do so. Also, Trump and Republican Governors began deliberately under reporting data related to COVID-19 because it hurt the optics.

2) Racism is built into American society. Black Americans ONLY received full legal protection and representation 55 years ago or less. That is within our lifetime.

There is ONE thing that hurts. Ignorance. Your friends and family are ignorant because they likely listen to right wing media as their source of information or they have at minimum bought into the right wing false narrative.

Conservatives absolutely know that their ideas benefit only a very narrow and small group of people so they HAD to create a vehicle for misinformation. The actual facts of reality support a progressive mindset because change is the only constant. From the Nixon administration on, the concerted effort has been to construct a media environment specifically designed to promote the conservative agenda. We need to understand that there is no "Liberal" media as the conservatives portray it. There is media based on liberal concepts such as empiricism, study, verification, falsification, etc... There are corporate influences that try to steer journalism into marketable information that brings in ad revenue. Conservatives have created a narrative where ANYTHING that does not promote a strictly conservative view point is "liberal" media and is therefore false. This is what has created the ignorance that led your friends and family to think that COVID-10 is overblown and that BLM has a false narrative.

[dustyscamp]

39. Sounds like some of my family members n friends

[genxlib]

8. I am afraid this is completely the case

I have had almost the exact same thoughts coalescing in the last 12 hours after worrying about this for weeks.

It also means we need to tread lightly going forward. If we come down too harshly on this issue, we risk being blamed for all of the negative economic consequences despite almost all of those consequences being already baked into the system.

[StarryNite]

9. A big problem is tRump's constant lying.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels

[mr_lebowski]

10. There's also the fact that Democrats have done better with fresh young faces as opposed to

political re-treads, and Biden is, no offense, just about the ultimate retread.

We win POTUS with charismatic younger men like Clinton and Obama. We lose with guys like Mondale, Kerry and Gore.

That's been recent history.

I think there's also an element of sexism and racism in play esp. when our candidate is older, and hence a Women of Color (from San Francisco no less) is a heart attack away from POTUS.

But this thesis is still a good one.

[My Pet Orangutan]

22. 'We win POTUS with charismatic younger men like Clinton and Obama'

I agree. But at the same time, Clinton, Obama (and JFK) were absolutely outstanding candidates.

[R B Garr]

11. Yes, you could see Trump made a calculated decision to pin the pain of the lockdown

on Democrats and especially Democratic governors. He started that when he was done playing national Covid helper when he realized that Cuomo was getting too much attention for being so competent and it made Trump jealous.

It's been a few months of his brainwashing that Democrats are keeping you all locked down. It was very calculated on his part.

[Blaukraut]

17. Silver lining: GOP won't be able to rely on covid fatigue voters forever

The pandemic WILL be over at some point.

[maryellen99]

19. A lot of those people also thought Covid was going away today nt

[BlueLucy]

21. I just moved from Portland to Kelso...

It was not the lockdowns. It was republicans exaggerating the riots, protest and crime in cities. FOX news humped that shit all day long.

[PTWB]

25. I kinda think it is the other way.

The COVID mismanagement may be the only reason we are clinging to narrow leads.

If Trump had knocked the pandemic response out of the park I think he would be on his way to 350+ EVs right now.

[crickets]

26. Agreed. nt

[Jspur]

28. Agreed I think Trump's mishandling of COVID made this a lot closer

then what it would have been. Had COVID not happened I believe Trump would have easily won. A lot of these people believed in Trump because the economy was allegedly "great" with the stock market booming. Covid wrecked the economy and a lot of people flipped from believing in Trump granted that flip was good enough to deliver a blue wave but it made it a lot closer then it would have been. According to exit polls Trump did worse with white men than he did in 2016. That was the only base he didn't expand on. So that should tell you something.

[Azathoth]

29. Sure, if Trump had suddenly become a responsible human, he'd have gotten a major bounce

Although he would also have lost the enthusiasm of much of his base.

But he wasn't a responsible human and there was never any real chance he would become one. Dems, on the other hand, got so into positioning themselves as a contrast to his behavior that they became the I-know-better-than-you parent willing to keep everyone in permanent lockdown till the egghead doctors gave the OK.

[PTWB]

30. He could have been the exact same guy and said, from the beginning:

“This China virus is gonna be real bad. Wear a mask, stay 6 ft apart” and he would have been seen as competent. He could have easily played it up with his anti-China rhetoric while still managing it.

Instead of chose to tell the scientists to fuck off and flout all the guidelines.

And I think it cost him.

[Azathoth]

35. This is historical revisionism

No one here thought that Trump -- impeached, disgraced, locked at 42% approval -- was on-course for likely re-election before the pandemic hit. The conventional wisdom was that his reelection was a long shot, and everyone assumed once he botched the pandemic response so badly it would be the final nail in his coffin.

His handling of the pandemic may not have helped him with swing voters, but it definitely fired up his base, and it may have hurt us with a lot of working class constituencies.

And let's be honest, him talking about the "China virus" while promoting lockdowns and telling everyone to wear a mask wouldn't have been the Trump his base supports. He would have been deferring to science and doctors and "elitists" while Infowars articles and videos like Plandemic Part 47: Democrat Tyranny Unmasked surged through his base. They'd have branded him a sellout "establishment RINO".

[kwolf68]

27. We are NOT doing a good job of framing BLM

It's like the Socialist bullshit. When attacked you have to defend it.

For the love of all that is or isn't holy, I even had my right-wing mother agreeing that shooting unarmed black men in the streets by rogue cops is not good and by extension of that gained "some" sympathy for the BLM movement.

There is a way to approach it, but just as the civil rights protesters were often called "communist n****&s", that's what they see the BLM as, maybe just "communist", though I am sure many exploit that other word still.

It is NOT hard to understand BLM, but the movement was certainly sullied with the accompanying riots/looting. Whether that was actual BLM people (almost 100% doubtful), just a bunch of hooligans, or false flag operations to destroy BLM credibility, we need to defend BLM tactfully and confidently. ALSO, CALL OUT rioting and looting. Democrats should admit people that destroy shit should be prosecuted. Being "for peace" is universal.

[Caliman73]

38. Who within the Democratic Party has NOT called out the rioting and looting.

The right wing narrative is so deep that we even use their words to frame our own arguments.

There have been individual protestors and people who want to "burn the motherfucker down", but none of the candidates or officials or anyone that has ANY standing within the Democratic alliance has supported rioting and looting.

Also "rogue cops" my ass. There are mostly good people who are police, but the system they ALL work in is based on racism and toxic masculinity where authority of the White man is the norm.

We do not need to defend BLM, we need to keep calling out the systemic racism in the country.

[jcgoldie]

32. Because a lot of people like Trump want to wish it away

...instead of coming to grips with the fact that dealing with it responsibly might be hard.

[Initech]

33. Actually I think the protests and the violence hurt us.

Because it gave Trump and his army fuel to paint us as "violent out of control lunatics" when it was really their side that was doing the looting, but they were able to amplify this because they have an AM radio and social media army of trolls that can carry out their message to millions of people.

I really think the Democrats need to step up our game in the propaganda field. If we can get the message out there, then we win. If not then it's the other way around.

[JCMach1]

40. I can't count how many times I heard the term, 'Defund the Police' in ads here in TX

That term was a gift to the GOP

[Initech]

42. Yeah I don't want to "defund the police".

What I want is - fire all of the white supremacists, encourage more diversity in departments, and hold them accountable when they discharge their weapons. Also, take away their military toys. You don't need armored tanks to patrol the suburbs.

Doesn't that sound more reasonable?

[JCMach1]

43. Sometime shite sticks and this was a good example... even 'Defund the Police' advocates

Last edited Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:54 PM - Edit history (1)

don't precisely advocate what the term seems like...

But it sure as heck sound sounds scary...

This issue may have cost us TX-24 (Still too close to call, but R is up by 5K)

[Initech]

44. John Oliver has done some great segments on the police that should be our platform: