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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJoe Scarborough is an ass.
He is blaming Democrats for what clearly are the results of voting machine cheating.
Fuck him, paper ballots follow the polls.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)malaise
(268,967 posts)I turned him off ages ago. Lemon and Cuomo are light years ahead of the Morning JoeScum crew
mucifer
(23,539 posts)of brainwashed cult members.
Nimble_Idea
(1,803 posts)He is just like the Never Trumpers who will stab that back of liberals.
He is no friend or ally of the left. He has a platform to poison daily. I will be turning off MSNBCrazy after this election. Not that I watched it much at all, but it is the only one I'd watch for the results.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Why tf should we ever take his advice on anything?
madaboutharry
(40,209 posts)I think what he said was absolutely correct.
Losing seats in the House and not getting Senate seats had nothing to do with voting machines. In the state I live in the republican incumbent won re-election in a race that got major national attention and we also lost at least one house seat. We vote on paper, by mail and in person.
MoJoe is an ass and I don't know why anyone watches him, but the Dem message did not resonate with about half of Americans and the leadership needs to pay attention to this.
Americans are ready for a real alternative. They can look to their new Trump party or they can look to a truly progressive Democratic party, but will Democrats be able to share their message effectively?
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)Almost a clean sweep. We did keep one House seat. The ads regarding defunding the police were brutal. Ernst was successful in taking advantage of the inaccurate Presidential polls to make the case that losing her would concentrate all the power into liberal hands - her ads presupposed that Trump would lose. I am still not entirely sure how she got away with it.
I lost my Representative after only two years.
I lost Abby F.
Lonestarblue
(9,981 posts)And much as I like Mayor Adler, it did not help that he took some money from the Austin police budget for new recruits and moved it to other needs. Critics and state officials immediately jumped on him for defunding the police. Whoever came up with that label did a real disservice to the whole conversation about police reform.
Ur side needs to learn about better messaging because Republicans lie through their teeth and say whatever voters want to hear. Their actual policies rarely are mentioned.
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)My brother was a Pastor out in Farming Country..
I tuned in CNN long ago. Easier to keep up with. The Kornaki hyper wears thin!
doc03
(35,328 posts)lose the house in 2022. I don't think Joe Biden is going to let the far left radicals run his administration.
That was Trump's argument that Joe was a puppet to the far left. That may be why we didn't do as well as expected.
Joe isn't going to let that happen. Anyway they lost me I switched to CNN.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Anyways, I voted for Biden so don't abandon those already on your side.
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I also live in Arizona.
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Of the Police. I also want decent gun laws to protect them
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)mahina
(17,649 posts)Reform the police
pazzyanne
(6,551 posts)A much better way of expressing what needs to be done! This is the one issue that could not be discussed because many of the people I know shut down and stood by their reactions to the word "defund". It meant abolish police to them.
RicROC
(1,204 posts)Reform the police
Democratic Capitalism, not Socialism
Medicare for All, not Single Payor Health Care (because what the hell does that mean?)
Bring the Troops home.
add your own talking points.
jaxexpat
(6,820 posts)then adopt them. Is it payment for media air time? Defending/explaining the term, "defund the Police", did more damage than a dozen Trump rallies. About as much damage as the FBI report of investigating nothing in 2016.
The fact that Trump is such a horrible excuse for a human being is what got Joe Biden elected. Voters didn't choose between the lesser of two evils this time. They expediently voted to reject the asshole, the evil.
However, on the healthcare angle, I might disagree. The term "single payer health care system" is easily translatable. It means that you don't have a doctor bill, a pharmacy bill, a surgery bill, a hospital bill, a copay or any limit of care based on your ability to pay. The screaming and groaning come from health insurance companies, doctor's conglomerates, hospital conglomerates, the pharmaceutical industry and all other profit generators whose business model rests on the health needs (the suffering, if you will) of people. The confusion about it, the acceptance of the status quo, the social frustrations which get twisted and end up aimed at progressives are the net product of "talking points" created by the current health care industry.
These are points which we have been trained to accept as legitimate without fair examination or rebuttal. Their most popular talking point is a question, "how are you going to pay for it?" The answer is simply, "by ironing out the inconsistencies in your profit margin." "But that's socialism! The tax burden on the American people will be outrageous", they will steadfastly aver. "No, that's good business! Federal taxes, the only means of funding the national single payer plan, will be less than our current health care costs and you know it", we reply.
Our talking point should be, "The health care industry, not unlike the funeral industry, gleans it's final profit, it's sure money, from looting the estates of terminally ill senior citizens. It's a bad business that relies on the ruin of its clients, people who depend on their good intentions, to fill their bottom line."
On Tee-Vee, predictably, the whole argument devolves into their mercenary finger pointing and accusations of poor life choices and just deserts, law of the jungle, etc. Highlighted by crazily illogical scenarios of overcrowded emergency rooms and bankrupt pharmacies, the host offers excuses and, "we'll have to get back to this when we have more time".
That's where we are now. I hope Biden can move the moment forward a bit. It's about the talking points.
SunnyATT
(56 posts)We have always allowed the republicans to get out in front of the talking points with an onerous label of their choosing.
That one didnt do us any good.
HootieMcBoob
(3,823 posts)Democrats have a lot to learn about framing issues. Defunding the Police was a losing way of framing something that many people would support if it was framed in a better way. A way that emphasizes taking the burden of social services off of the shoulders of already overtaxed officers. Be smart. Be strategic. I love AOC and shes great for her district but middle America responds better to the way that Mayor Pete explains complicated issues, thats why hes so important to have on Fox News. To make progress on the issues that are important to us we cant give them ammunition to use against us.
wcollar
(176 posts)Unfortunate phrasing seems to be a Democratic Hallmark.
Packaging is important.
i.e.
Think how much easier it would have been for Darwin if he had called it "The Ascent of Man"
What if it had been "BLM2"? ( I am in no way denigrating the BLM movement, it needs to continue)
And as you said, "Defund the Police" was a loser.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)Progress is made in incremental steps and very rarely, especially in a democracy, with major changes. Major issues should be carefully explored before jumping in with such calls for massive defunding of the police when programs to correct the abuses are far more constructive than outright demolition. In this regard I believe that although our health care system to wholly inadequate change is more possible through building on the AFCA than massive reforms that will be met with intense opposition.
StaunchDemocrat1957
(66 posts)Im keeping my fingers crossed!
bullimiami
(13,086 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)just takes up space and never got around to watching them
634-5789
(4,175 posts)Pachamama
(16,887 posts)I was just watching and listening to him...
Even his wife Mika was rolling her eyes.
Nothing he said surprises me and I actually fully expected it. Never Trumpers and life long Republicans who voted for Biden, their first and likely only time in their life, will now be coming out and attacking Democrats again now that they think Trump is finally being run out of town.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)wcast
(595 posts)They want to influence Democratic policy and long to go back to the casual racism and dog whistles of the past where they have plausible deniability.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)Scarborough, love him, hate him said what he said as its factual, the attack on democrats as "socialist" worked. The fact that FEAR works is a FACT and why democrats have to remessage their policies in a much better way. THis should have been a tidal wave
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)Our candidates never used the big gun - Social Security. Under Trump and the GOP controlled Congress SS checks go away in three years. We should have run that all the time.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)that was SS and Medicare going away as part of the FICA tax holiday. That cost democrats FLORIDA
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)I kept waiting for those ads. They never arrived here in Iowa.
I don't think either party wants folks to understand how SS actually works.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)no upside for "democratic party" not having the people know how SS/Medicare works
It was a golden opportunity.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,337 posts)HAVA ushered in lots of electronic voting and there is ample evidence of the ease of manipulating these devices. We simply can't have elections that are verifiable by both voter and the public without paper or some other physical ballot. People can watch and guard paper ballots; they can't watch and guard electrical states in an electronic device.
Voter suppression is a significant factor -- purges, selectively reduced polling places, intimidation, photo ID, registration red tape, gerrymandering. The GOP has been refining and spreading its efforts for decades.
There is a propaganda network from AM radio to "social media" which has been refined in its messaging by data collected by various institutions to target customized messages right down to individuals. There is no worry that the messages targeting one group contradict those aimed at another, because logical consistency is not the goal -- an emotional reaction is the goal. "Socialism" and "socialist", as you indicated, was a significant emotional trigger that the propaganda machine pounded on.
One thing that very likely inspired an uptick in voting by racists, Nazis and misogynists (together, forming a significant chunk of RW Republicans) is the fact that we have a black woman on the ticket. This has to be a nightmare scenario for those who raged about Obama.
Fear is big.
SmartVoter22
(639 posts)Every single state uses a paper ballot. Most voting machines only mark a paper ballot, which is them processed like a regular ballot.
Trump would blame the color yellow when he realized he cannot peel a banana.
https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_state
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)There are states that use DREs that don't print ballots. In the cases where the ballots are printed, how are the ballots presented to the voter (do they just go into a pile or does the voter actually receive them and view them). The same can be said about BMDs.
All ballots are counted by machine. How often are the ballot counts audited through another method (such as hand counting).
I know it is messaging as well. I saw it Iowa. We also ran a lightweight as a Senate candidate (she barely had the resume to run for Representative).
cerebrate2006
(32 posts)The minute the never Trumpers realized that they were rid of the a-hole, they resumed their real purpose in life to promote conservative ideas and trash everyone elses. They have questioned what the base saw in this guy, but never trashed them. Trumps base is their base - they just hated where he was taking them.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Hes still very much here.
Yeehah
(4,587 posts)What would we do without the telescreen updates!
Hav
(5,969 posts)and then we do the same thing without any evidence at all. People just make up shit instead of trying to accept reality. Yes, it seems that this election didn't help in the fight against gerrymandering and it might take 10 years to get another chance.
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)exboyfil
(17,862 posts)Any system in which an audit is prevented from happening or greatly restricted is also suspicious. I know some of it was vote mining, but I still remember Jill Stein begging to have a certain set of ballots in Wisconsin hand audited. While I detest her, I think she definitely had a point.
I also agree that the messaging had more of an impact. We blew it Iowa. It appears we blew it Florida as well.
It was always going to be difficult to beat the down ballot Trump effect. At the national level we had the regular Democrats and never Trumpers voting against Trump. On the down ballot races you had the never Trumpers and Trumpers both voting for the other candidates - (R is good, D is bad for low information Trumpers).
helpisontheway
(5,007 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 6, 2020, 09:16 AM - Edit history (1)
Im happy. I knew some of the never Trumpers would eventually turn on us. I thought they would at least wait until he was elected though. Whatever...In the face of all his complaining he still had confidence in Pelosi and Biden. We will see. They are not ruining my day though. I have been waiting FOUR YEARS to get this asshole out of the White House! Pack your bags Donnie!
My Pet Orangutan
(9,244 posts)They have repeated that they have said they will keep fighting the GOP in 2022 and 2024.
helpisontheway
(5,007 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)they have a lots of young people doing the video magic. They has said they have no party and its better to work together at this moment in time to unfuck what Trumpers have done.
Darwin2019
(217 posts)Read John Dean's book Authoritarian Nightmare
It explains how Hitler did it and how authoritarians like Trump and Fox news work.
Most repubs live in a world devoid of facts.
See : https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214348842
gab13by13
(21,323 posts)more people voted this election using paper ballots and we won. The Senate is still undecided.
I voted for decades into a black hole with no paper trail, not that it mattered. If voting machines are rigged, they are rigged in favor of Republicans.
We don't even know who owns the machines we vote on. Hell Ivanka manufactured voting machines in China, we could be voting on her machines. Give me paper ballots over voting machines any day of the week. The voting machine I used to vote on couldn't even do a recount, all it could do was recount the final tally.
I voted by mail for the first time in Pa. I tracked my ballot request on line, I tracked my ballot when I sent it back in, and I tracked that my vote was recorded. I will do mail in voting from now on.
brooklynite
(94,519 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)he is insignificant. No one. Last watched him 12 yrs ago. Same old.
Illumination
(2,458 posts)that tell you?
GO JOE!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)of millions reveal them to have become the scary "mean people" who bring down nations. And this proves Democrats have failed. We need to do better. WE need to change.
We hear that all the time from idiots reciting groupthink and LW hostiles. Everything the right does and/or goes wrong in our nation is the fault of Democrats. We have to do better.
If we could stop runaway change through technological advances, that would help, so why the fuck didn't we freeze time for society to catch up, or at least catch a breath? Pelosi and Schumer are incredibly incompetent.
Backing off on that equality for all thing here would placate a lot of people on the right, but also left, who're willing burn down our national barn to reverse the changes that greater equality for women, blacks, Hispanics, LGBTQ, etc., bring. The talking heads aren't nearly honest enough to admit that huge seminal factor in the Republican conflagration, though, so the blame for the giant cultural backlash against the continued march to equality of all gpes to: Democrats, reason unspecified.
We of course are at fault for not somehow managing to stop global warming against all opposition. If we'd cared we've have stopped it by ourselves. And of course now that it's undeniable, the angry RW deniers are the most fearful and anxious of all. If we didn't want them to overthrow our democracy in their mindless search for an escape to safety (and smash us in the process), we shouldn't have "let" it come to this.
And on and on.
Nostra culpa.
brooklynite
(94,519 posts)Show us a candidate who lost who claims voting machine cheating.
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)for a long time. Always a red shift, never blue.
brooklynite
(94,519 posts)The voting machines you claim were "hacked" in 2020 won us the House in 2018.
And apparently they couldn't overcome the razor-thin Presidential campaign margins this year?
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)Obama and 2018 proved whatever they've been doing to get the red shift can be overcome by massive turnout. There have been too many weird outcomes, always favoring the Repukes. Something stinks. Let's celebrate today and think about that tomorrow.
brooklynite
(94,519 posts)I was on a private call with DNC Chair Perez yesterday. No claim of vote hacking.
In fact, there's no elected official, candidate or Party leader who has ever claimed this is happening.
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)voting people say, "I will vote for a trump humping POS because the Dems message isn't clear."
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)so now that the election is all but over we're supposed just throw him under the front wheels of the bus for some comments he made today?
StaunchDemocrat1957
(66 posts)Told everyone how she had face lifts. But you know Trump.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)but yes, Trump's crazy accusations about them only served to intensify Joe and Mika's attacks towards Trump
lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)Botany
(70,501 posts)See Florida 2000 aka Bush v Gore
Joe helped to make sure the vote wasn't counted in Florida.
padah513
(2,502 posts)Those true colors came shining through
iluvtennis
(19,852 posts)energy to keep sending vibes for Biden to take over Georgia and Penn. I had to turn JoeS off.
I want to celebrate the impending win for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Yes, we lost a few reps...but we still have control of the House. And we have a chance to get two more senate seats with the Ossoff and Warnock runoffs in January.
AllaN01Bear
(18,191 posts)lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)What a fickle bunch.
God forbid we do any introspection. Yer either fer us or agin us!! Right? Whatever you do, do NOT hold any contrary opinion.
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)you know, one that only uses talking points that agree with you in every way. Why does that sound familiar? hmmmm. I wonder.
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)yaesu
(8,020 posts)rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)cilla4progress
(24,728 posts)Reading this thread...dems have one garbled message - defund the police- and it is doom. While Rs support the pussygrabbing traitor. Yet they live to see another day?
Sorry. I don't think thats the answer.
I think it's about white people's fear of losing dominance and power: white supremacy.
Why isn't it transsexuals in our bathrooms - as McCaskill says. Or marriage equality. Or commonsense gun laws? Or any other single issue?
Why do Rs get a pass, but Ds, we have to be so oh so careful of our "framing."
Sorry..there are other entrenched underlying currents here. And we torture ourselves and sell our souls to always try to accommodate.
This is the eternal struggle of the Dem party here.
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)cilla4progress
(24,728 posts)We believe in and follow the rule of law. It's our undoing.
My fondest hope is the republican party splits in half - trumpers and nevers.
I think this is a possibility.
Earthshine2
(4,002 posts)Mika does a fine job running the show without him.
Sunsky
(1,737 posts)These so-called "Never-Trumpers" will become just Republicans and will be back to their old ways.