Trump lawyer admits in open court that there is no election fraud.

[yellowcanine]

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/trump-attorney-openly-admits-to-judge-under-penalty-of-perjury-that-theres-no-election-fraud/

During the oral arguments, the judge asked Goldstein if the campaign is alleging fraud.

“Your Honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step,” Goldstein said. “And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board or the DNC or anybody else involved in this a liar.”

“I am asking you a specific question,” the judge pressed, “and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?”

“To my knowledge at present, no,” Goldstein replied.

“Are you claiming that there is any undue or improper influence upon the elector with respect to these 592 ballots?” the judge asked.

“To my knowledge at present, no,” Goldstein conceded.

To paraphrase another judge in Wisconsin, "then why are we here?"

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. All of these republican bastards need to be thrown out of court.

We are way past due to be tolerating this craziness.

We need to call a halt to it.

NOW.

[2naSalit]

6. And disbarred!

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

9. And thrown in prison for life.

I’m out of patience with anyone cooperating with the attempted theft of an election. They should be in solitary with no outside time until they expire.

[cstanleytech]

16. Usually I would oppose such a thing but trying to be reasonable with such unreasonable and

unethical, immoral, vulgar and vile people like them has caused me to say enough and that is saying something seeing as I would occasionally vote for a Republican 30 years ago.

[Maraya1969]

2. I imagine the judge was not very pleased.

[marble falls]

3. Fighting for a portion of 592 votes. At least it will be over in 20 days.

[wnylib]

11. They think that, if they can prove

an irregularity with a few votes, whether accidental or intentional, they can generalize from there that none of the votes are to be trusted.

[Arthur_Frain]

4. We need to let this play out in the courts

And then we need to use the courts to nail their coffin shut. At the very least, put Adam Schiff in at A.G. and let him go mad dog on these treasonous pricks.

[Mr. Ected]

5. The bill assessed to Donald Trump for these frivolous suits needs to be immense and crippling

It's impossible, though, to estimate punitive damages based on the long-term effects of undermining the validity of the electoral process.

[2naSalit]

8. Start with pulling license to practice...

For life. Then some jail time would be fitting.

[gopiscrap]

12. totally agree

[NCjack]

13. Only if he pays his bills. Be nice if his progress checks bounce and his

hired guns balk.

[Barbara2423]

7. Trump always use the courts for his shenanigans, usually the little guy don't have the money

to fight back.

[Ms. Toad]

10. The claim in this case is not fraud, so the testimony is irrelevant.

It's a nice bonus admission, but not legally relevant to this case.

The case is about whether the details of the absentee ballot law must be strictly complied with for the ballot to count.

The ballots in question did not have a handwritten address on the appropriate envelope - BUT - did have identifying information elsewhere so the ballots could be verified as authorized ballots.

The contention is that the handwritten address is an election safeguard, since people voting absentee never have to come face to face wtih an election official there must be more safeguards to prevent fraud and that any put in place must then be strictly complied with for the ballot to be counted.

So whether these ballots were fraudulent is completely irrelevant - the issue is a question of law: Does the law require strict compliance as a precondition to counting ballots.

Context is important.

[StarfishSaver]

14. It may not be specifically relevant in this case BUT

Trump's lawyers have alleged in federal district court in Pennsylvania that the Pennsylvania officials have engaged in outright fraud to secure Biden's election. And we all know that Trump and his acolytes have been claiming all over the public airwaves that Biden's win in Pennsylvania and elsewhere were the result of fraud.

So a Trump attorney admitting under oath that there was no fraud involved in this matter is more than just a nice bonus admission. It's a bfd.

[Thekaspervote]

15. Indeed!

[crickets]

21. +1

[Ms. Toad]

22. I'm not aware of any case in which fraud was alleged.

They have been very vocal about fraud outside of court, but the main PA case is simply a question of constitutional interpretation: Is the court permitted to change the date by which ballots are received, or is a change like that under the exclusive control of the legislature. The second case also is not a fraud allegation - but disparate treatment/irregularities.

Same in Michigan in Michigan, the allegations are of irregularities - not fraud.

So unless you are aware of a specific court case in which fraud has been alleged, it is merely a nice bonus. (And, the court declaraton was limited to 562 ballots.)

ETA: The new case in PA claims disenfranchisement by vote dilution - that sufficient illegal ballots were cast to give the election to Biden). None of the evidence on which the claims are based, aside from one allegation, even suggest fraud - and it is not expressly claimed. That one was a second hand report that a poll watcher overheard a pollworker telling someone to vote under a different name than the registered name. Having a ton of familiarity with what goes on in a precinct on election day, pretty sure that would have been a name change due to marriage, divorce (or something similar). It may have been mishandled - but not fraud. The rest of the allegations were technical nonsense.

[StarfishSaver]

23. The campaign has alleged fraud in several cases, including in Pennsylvania and Michigan

Trump for President v. Boockvar: https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/2020-11-09-complaint-as-filed.pdf

Trump for President v. Benson: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/11/Donald-J.-Trump-for-President-Inc.-v.-Jocelyn-Benson-COMPLAINT.pdf

[Ms. Toad]

24. The actual claims are not that they committed fraud

Fraud is the risk that they are alleging if the allegations they have made about the elections are let slide. It's a subtle difference. All their claims in these cases are about guaranteeing equal rights, due process, and compliance with election laws ** in order to prevent fraud** (which in lay terms may not seem much different, but in legal terms it is a huge difference because of the heightened pleading standards for fraud.)

Boockvar

**Fourteenth Amendment U.S. Const. Amend. XIV, 42 U.S.C. § 1983Denial of Due Process On The Right to Vote Invalid Enactment of Regulations Affecting Observation and Monitoring of the Election
**Fourteenth Amendment U.S. Const. Amend. XIV, 42 U.S.C. § 1983 Denial of Equal Protection Invalid Enactment of Regulations Affecting Observation and Monitoring of the Election
**U.S. Const. Art. I, §4, cl. 1 & Art. II, § 1, cl. 2 Violation of the Electors & Elections Clauses
**Fourteenth Amendment U.S. Const. Amend. XIV, 42 U.S.C. § 1983 Denial of Equal Protection Disparate Treatment of Absentee/Mail-In Voters Among Different Counties
**U.S. Const. Art. I, §4, & Art. II, § 1 Violation of the Electors & Elections Clauses
**Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection Clause U.S. Const. Amend. XIV, 42 U.S.C. § 1983 Denial of Due Process Disparate Treatment of Absentee/Mail-In Voters Among Different Counties
**U.S. Const. Art. I, §4, & Art. II, § 1 Violation of the Electors & Elections Clauses

Benson

Secretary of State Benson and Wayne County violated the Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution and the corollary clause of Michigan’s Constitution.
Secretary of State Benson and Wayne County violated the rights of these Michigan voters under the federal Elections and Electors Clauses.
Secretary of State Benson and Wayne County violated Michigan’s Election Code.

[StarfishSaver]

25. Both complaints do indeed allege that actual fraud occurred in Michigan and Pennsylvania.

For example, in Boockvar, the plaintiffs allege, among other things, As part of the November 3, 2020 General Election, there are at least two Counties that had suspected instances of mail-in ballot fraud..."

In Benson, the plaintiffs accuse the Secretary of State and Wayne County officials "allow[ing] fraud and incompetence to corrupt the conduct of the 2020 general election."

The entire point of these complaints is not simply an allegation that the state officials' actions didn't follow the law and therefore, but that their actions failed to prevent and/or caused actual fraud occurred that resulted in harm to their clients.

And I'm not sure why you're referencing the heightened standard for pleading fraud since that doesn't apply here since defendants are not being accused of defrauding the plaintiffs.

[Ms. Toad]

27. None of the claims they actuall made depend on proving fraud. n/t

[StarfishSaver]

28. Did you actually read these cases?

If you did, I can't imagine why you'd keep arguing this point. You're just wrong about this.

The Trump campaign is claiming that fraudulent votes were cast and need to be thrown out (along with hundreds of thousands of other votes). That's the very point of their cases.

I don't know why you want to keep arguing that fraud is not an issue in these cases that allege that ballots need to be ruled illegal because they are supposedly fraudulent. Perhaps you just don't want to admit your initial claim that none of these cases involve allegations of fraud was incorrect.

But regardless how often you claim that fraud isn't an issue, the Trump campaign is alleging in these pleadings that voters and/or election officials engaged in fraud and if they want to win these cases, they will have to prove those claims, which, of course, they can't.

[Ms. Toad]

29. Yes, I read the cases.

There is a difference between claiming fraud, and claiming that procedures weren't followed that were designed to prevent fraud, or were designed to ensure voters were treated equally.

[StarfishSaver]

30. If you'd actually read the cases, you would see that they are alleging fraud

But, for some reason, you're determined to continue sticking to the same bogus claim.

I'll not waste any more of my time trying to convince you that complaints that demand ballots be disqualified because "there are at least two Counties that had suspected instances of mail-in ballot fraud" and because election officials "allow[ed] fraud and incompetence to corrupt the conduct of the 2020 general election" aren't alleging fraud and plaintiffs don't need to prove the existence of the the fraud described therein in order to prevail on the merits.

The complaints speak for themselves.

[Ms. Toad]

31. You are correct. The complaints do speak for themselves. n/t

[reACTIONary]

20. Thanks! The raw story..

... is sometimes undercooked.

[zaj]

17. I prefer: "Trump lawyer CONFESSES in open court..."

[Blue Owl]

18. K&R

[bucolic_frolic]

19. The lawyers are there because the agent provocateur sent them to appease the demons in his mind /nt

[Cha]

26. Boom!