Trump will put tremendous pressure on state legislators to overturn this election very soon.

[BlueNIndiana]

I know some have come out and said that is not an option but when this get closer to certification, the pressure (threats) will be overwhelming.

I do not care if its "not legal" that does not matter to him.

Trump wants to seat different electors that is the whole reason for these lawsuits. the lawsuits are just a delay tactic.

Trump wants to seat new electors and have the Supreme Court decide that is the end game.

I hope the GOP legislatures can wistand the pressure that is about to be thrust upon them, so far they have "pushed back" on the idea but they have yet to come to that fork in the road.

If they do succumb and the Supreme Court decides in their favor we will be in a civil war.


It may be long shot he can get this done but that is were this is heading.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

1. What, please, is the mysterious force he can exert on state legislators?

Welcome to DU.

[Laelth]

43. He can threaten to have them primaried.

That’s exactly what he did to Governor DeWine of Ohio earlier today because DeWine had the audacity to say that Biden won.

The Republicans who are currently in office are terrified of Trump.

-Laelth

[Statistical]

2. OH NOES DDDDDDDOOOOOOOOMEEEED I TELL YOU.

Joe Biden will win the electoral college 306-232 (minus maybe 1 or 2 protest votes on either side). Joe Biden will become the 46th President of the United States.

[joshcryer]

4. I expect him to win by 310 or more.

What he's done to the process won't garner him any favors. Remember Trump won by 304 because two defected last time. There will be more this time.

[Statistical]

7. Defected but not to the other candidate.

Faithless electors are almost always casting a protest vote. If they defect from Trump they will pick some person they like or someone at random. Romney maybe?

Remember Trump's electors are hardcore lifetime RNC members. They might defect from Trump to make a statement but they aren't going to vote for Biden.

[joshcryer]

8. Ah, I didn't realize that.

Fair point.

[AmericanCanuck]

60. I am trying to figure out

what drove the OP to make the post.

Some explanation would help me sort it out.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

11. Many people are saying that a tally of 306 to 232 is a landslide, the likes of which has never

been seen. *

* Or is that "have never been seen"? I don't know.

the likes of which has/have

[Moostache]

14. True...also overheard:

Biggest landslide beautiful victory in maybe forever. Truly a bigly victory.

[bluestarone]

22. Could be the 47th?

If Rump steps down, so Pence can pardon him. BUT Joe IS the next president NO DOUBT about that!!

[Thrill]

3. He can't overturn state laws and statues

[Laelth]

9. State legislatures can, and they might.

The OP is correct to suggest that state legislators will be under pressure from Trump to do so. Will they? Only time will tell.

-Laelth

[Thekaspervote]

17. No, they can't. He can pressure all he wants. In 2 states it's illegal others have flat out said NO!

[Laelth]

25. I am glad 2 states have said no.

But they could change their minds. Legislatures write the laws. By definition, everything that the legislature does is legal. They can change their laws at will. If someone challenges one of the laws passed by a given legislature, then the Courts may be called in to adjudicate the matter.

In this case, we are protected by Democratic Governors in PA, MI, and WI, all of whom have veto power. It’s unlikely that this gambit will work, but it could be done, and it wouldn’t be illegal. Nothing that any legislature does is illegal, by definition. Legislatures write the laws. Now, legislatures CAN write laws that are unconstitutional, but that is up to the courts to decide.

-Laelth

[LanternWaste]

51. Beyond domestic and sexually violent acts, ex post facto laws are difficult

to move through state legislatures quickly enough to be relevant in this cycle.

[NutmegYankee]

5. The Electoral Count Act of 1887 has procedures that make it an unlikely gambit.

Worst case is both the executive and legislature submit electors, in which case the house and senate separately vote on which to accept. If they disagree, the "governor's tie-breaker" applies and the executive certified results are accepted.

[MineralMan]

6. Legislatures cannot make laws for THIS election.

They can only make laws for future elections, you see.

This election is OVER!

You can't change the rules for it.

You are incorrect, and so will Trump be if he tries this.

[lapfog_1]

10. This was their plan... if it had been close

but its not close... the legislatures he counted on are not going to do it.

[Squinch]

12. You should probably worry a lot about that.

[LanternWaste]

53. Seems there's been a malodorous cacophony of worry and concern

around here ever since Biden became President elect.

I'm certain it's just a coincidence, though.

[Squinch]

61. They should take a pill.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

13. Yeah, good luck with that...

GOP leaders in 4 states quash dubious Trump bid on electors

Republican leaders in four critical states won by President-elect Joe Biden say they won’t participate in a legally dubious scheme to flip their state’s electors to vote for President Donald Trump. Their comments effectively shut down a half-baked plot some Republicans floated as a last chance to keep Trump in the White House.

State GOP lawmakers in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have all said they would not intervene in the selection of electors, who ultimately cast the votes that secure a candidate’s victory. Such a move would violate state law and a vote of the people, several noted.

“I do not see, short of finding some type of fraud — which I haven’t heard of anything — I don’t see us in any serious way addressing a change in electors,” said Rusty Bowers, Arizona’s Republican House speaker, who says he’s been inundated with emails pleading for the legislature to intervene. “They are mandated by statute to choose according to the vote of the people.”

[link: https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-legislature-pennsylvania-b199b2debc87fbb20612a48835bc0dba|

[Thekaspervote]

15. Please stop! This has been beaten to death here and is not doable

Of the four states that he would need PA and WI gop majority leaders have said there is no way they would overrule the popular vote in their states.

The other 2 it is against the law!

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/11/10/pa-electoral-college-popular-vote/


https://verdict.justia.com/2020/09/30/no-republicans-cannot-throw-the-presidential-election-into-the-house-so-that-trump-wins

[mahatmakanejeeves]

18. Every time someone brings this up, I pour another helping of chardonnay into a

Last edited Mon Nov 16, 2020, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)

drinking glass that used to hold a jar of Polaner All Fruit.

[dhill926]

26. Haha...you must have been continually buzzed...

the last couple months...

[Laelth]

27. It has been beaten to death, but your conclusion is wrong.

It IS doable, if the legislatures do it and the courts allow it.

I think it’s highly unlikely to happen, but I also thought that it was highly unlikely that the SCOTUS would rule for Bush in 2000.

The unlikely and the impossible are very different things.

-Laelth

[LanternWaste]

54. And in-between the two is where we stand... 'practically impossible.'

"The unlikely and the impossible are very different things."

And in-between the two is where we stand... 'practically impossible.'
Sure, it's not impossible Belgium will invade the eastern United States. But it is practically impossible.

[Laelth]

56. Fair.

I certainly hope that you are right.

-Laelth

[Tree-Hugger]

16. Let's give up and unelect Joe

[flibbitygiblets]

19. Only 26 posts, fear-mongering is not a great way to start on DU. /nt

[bdamomma]

33. like

your comment.

[Bradshaw3]

49. When I see another one of these threads I always check the post count

Uh huh.

[bullimiami]

20. Of course he will. It's his next obvious play.

[PSPS]

21. Relax. Your scenario is impossible.

[Laelth]

28. Highly unlikely. Not impossible. n/t

-Laelth

[PSPS]

59. The moon crashing into the Earth is also "highly unlikely, not impossible." But I think it's safe.

[hatrack]

23. He doesn't have "tremendous pressure" - he has tantrums

He has mean tweets, and stupid nicknames, and he can viciously withhold his magnetic presence at fundraising events.

He has less power today than he did yesterday, and he will have less tomorrow.

[maryellen99]

24. I'm worried about Michigan

The GOP may do it in retaliation for the MDHHS 3 week pause orders( they blame Whitmer)

[Kaleva]

35. I'm not. Repub leaders in the legislature have already said it's not possible.

[lindysalsagal]

29. Pennsylvania has made several public statements that they're done. On several levels.

He doesn't have PA, and he won't. Several red counties voted him out. It was no accident. Their locals went red, but not for frump.

[Laelth]

34. Let us hope that they abide by those statements.

Naturally, they could change their minds, at any time, and buckle under the pressure described in the OP. Those statements to which you refer are not binding in any way.

Mercifully, PA has a Democratic Governor who could veto whatever the PA legislature decided to do, but that doesn’t mean that the PA legislature can’t try to overturn the supposed will of the voters.

-Laelth

[Kaleva]

36. Repub leaders in MI said the law prevents them from doing what's suggested in OP.

They would first have to try and change the law, which they don't have the votes for, and then attempt to override a sure veto by the governor.

[Laelth]

38. Precisely. They would be unlikely to succeed if they tried this gambit.

That doesn’t mean that they won’t try it. Trump is desperate, and he has 72 million voters behind him.

-Laelth

[Kaleva]

46. It is not a fact that Trump has 72 million voters behind him. Some have accepted that Biden won.

And many others may not like the result but have moved on. Only 500 people attended the pro-Trump protest held in Lansing a few days ago. 500! That's it! Out of the over 2 million that voted for Trump this election in MI, just a tiny fraction could be bothered to go to Lansing.

[Laelth]

57. He will argue that he has 72 million voters behind him.

And it will be difficult to counter that argument.

-Laelth

[obamanut2012]

30. oooooommmmgggggggggg iii ammmmmmm sooooo concernnnnnned

But, not as concerned as you, methinks.

[Quiet_Dem_Mom]

31. NV legislature doesn't meet until Feb 2021

I'm sure their crack legal team ( ) is aware the NV legislature only meets on odd-numbered years.

Right?

Plus, Dems maintained majority in both Assembly and Senate.

[Laelth]

32. They could call an emergency session.

I don’t think that the scenario outlined in the OP is likely, at all, but it’s not impossible, either. Trump is desperate, and he has 72 million voters behind him.

-Laelth

[Quiet_Dem_Mom]

50. Gov (D) has to call them in to special, or 2/3 legislators sign petition

If the governor doesn't call it, the legislators can call themselves into a session. But, they would need to get 2/3 of legislators in each house to sign a petition to begin a special session. Not enough Rs in either house to meet that threshhold.

They are definitely desperate, but I think this avenue is closed off to the Rs.

I'm sure the Trump Legal Crew will try something else equally stupid. I should look up any "Four Seasons" properties around the state before the next scheduled presser...

[Laelth]

52. I don't think that they will be shooting for NV.

If they try this, they will shoot for GA and AZ, first, then PA, MI, and WS.

It’s not out of the realm of possibility.

-Laelth

[Kaleva]

37. OP makes an assumption, not supported by facts, that a majority of Repubs would go along with this.

I prefer to live in a fact based world.

[Laelth]

41. I don't see that assumption expressed in the OP at all. n/t

-Laelth

[Kaleva]

47. "but they have yet to come to that fork in the road."

[Laelth]

55. Exactly.

I see no assumption about what they WILL do, just speculation about what they COULD do (and what Trump will try to pressure them to do).



-Laelth

[SlogginThroughIt]

39. You say that

You say that these lawsuits are delay tactics. What are they, or what have they delayed? There is nothing being delayed.

[Kahuna]

40. The lawsuits are also to provide justification. But so far they're

not serving to provide that justification.

[brooklynite]

42. No, he won't

Trump will put tremendous pressure on state legislators

He'll tweet about it, and possibly rant in public, but he won't put any more effort into this than he has into any other half-baked strategy to stay in office.

[yellowcanine]

44. Nah, we have been over this ad infinitum. It is not happening. Many reasons.

But if I had to pick one. Ex post facto laws are not allowed by any state. All of the states have passed laws saying how their electors are chosen and those laws apply for all elections until the law is changed.

[Laelth]

48. All states allow Ex Post Facto laws.

CARES was an ex post facto law.

It’s only in the criminal realm where the Constitution’s prohibition against ex post facto laws becomes particularly relevant.

The scenario outlined in the OP is highly unlikely, but it’s not impossible. Trump is desperate, and he has 72 million voters behind him.

-Laelth

[lindysalsagal]

45. There must be some emotional payoff for these deniers

but I don't know what that is....

And, no, there won't be a civil war, as much as some like to imagine. That's just more irrational thought, from someone who has no idea how devastating it would be.

We didn't have civil war in 2016: But we did have many people wake up to the fact that MAGA is nothing but lies.

I certainly hope everyone who's posting here on DU has realized that everything frumps says is a lie. And his followers are the biggest gullible fools to keep sending him money that he just puts in his own pocket.

[Alhena]

58. They don't have the ability to do it under most states' laws, and federal law says

they can't change election rules after the fact. PA and WI both have Democratic governors and state Supreme Courts that would stop them from violating their state's laws.

Georgia is the only one I'm not sure about, and I doubt they want to fire up Dem voters right before the runoff by robbing them of their vote. Especially since the GA Secretary of State and Lt. Governor, both Republicans, have said the election was fair.

[FreepFryer]

62. Full ignore. (Nt)