General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBiden shouldn't investigate a single thing.
Biden shouldn't say a single thing about Trump, his administration, his officials, or his people, other than "no comment." Or "I will not be commenting on this subject."
Biden should hire a hardliner like Mueller (I'm not suggesting Mueller, I'm saying someone like him) for the head of the DoJ. I don't know who it should be, but it should be someone who will investigate every single dealing, every single crony bullshit that Trump has done.
Remember, the Republicans spent a hundred million dollars investigating the Clintons under Kenn Starr and his ilk. We need non-partisan, individual actors, to investigate, prosecute.
And Biden needs to not touch it. Not mention it. Not discuss it. "I will not be discussing any investigations that occur under my Department of Justice, thank you."
The DoJ should be separate from the White House, that's the whole point of a justice system, it should be non-partisan, distinct. By being impartial, Biden can bring back faith in the DoJ and in the system itself.
And Trump and his lackey's can wind up behind bars.
highplainsdem
(51,943 posts)Luciferous
(6,227 posts)joshcryer
(62,371 posts)...will take the wind out of his sycophantic Trumpist movement. Don't utter his name for the next 4 years.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)His name should never be spoken. If a reference is needed I am sure a work-around can be used such as predecessor or previous administration. I would also never utter the word republican simply find a work around for that as well perhaps like "the other party" because this group has strayed so far from republican values that they should not enjoy the name of the party of Lincoln.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Meadowoak
(6,056 posts)Griefbird
(108 posts)one turd president, also too.
PatSeg
(49,586 posts)Sometimes what you don't say is as powerful, if not more so than what you do say. Plus you aren't reinforcing "Trump" and "republican" with the public. It is less outwardly combative and antagonistic, while still moving ahead with investigations.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)He is a mass murderer after all with the way he's handled COVID-19.
Doreen
(11,686 posts)in order to not make them feel special. That would bother the hell out of donny.
A little added perk, driving Trump nuts due to lack of attention.
Skraxx
(3,128 posts)joshcryer
(62,371 posts)Act as if he never existed. The media can't report on a non-existent entity.
DonaldsRump
(7,715 posts)"Bobby 3 Sticks" was a wimp.
onetexan
(13,775 posts)the department investigates, including anything the Con-related.
kag
(4,100 posts)to head the DoJ.
onetexan
(13,775 posts)rickyhall
(4,889 posts)Duppers
(28,220 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2020, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)
Biden signals reluctance to investigate, prosecute Trump for his crimeshttps://occupydemocrats.com/2020/11/17/biden-signals-reluctance-to-investigate-prosecute-trump-for-his-crimes/
I take that to mean it includes his administration??
flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)Biden is no fool. He understands all this. I get that we want blood. But Biden cant hold the knife, its not the presidents job
yellowdogintexas
(22,648 posts)anything making Biden honorable and #45 look worse is fine in my book
Arkansas Granny
(31,782 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,862 posts)I don't know if he'll hire a "hardliner," but I can't imagine there are any people in his pool of potential candidates who would be willing to look the other way. Not to mention that most of the civil servants who remain in DOJ are likely to be pissed about what Trump did to their department. They are probably already chomping at the bit to expose everything.
redstatebluegirl
(12,454 posts)UCmeNdc
(9,649 posts)The DOJ might appoint an independent prosecutor to investigate.
You are right Biden should not be involved beyond telling his DOJ to find out if anything illegal took place.
Sucha NastyWoman
(2,873 posts)Hes not really supposed to have any say in the matter.
It all comes down to who he picks as Attorney General
mcar
(43,344 posts)That is not the role of a President.
mgardener
(1,882 posts)The JUSTICE Dept should determine the wrongdoing of the previous administration.
We the people pay for the Dept with our taxes.
Justice for all.
RicROC
(1,223 posts)he should be considered for head of DoJ. He's more of a hard-ass than Mueller is thought to be/have been.
UCmeNdc
(9,649 posts)He is an honest, hard working legal mind. He will work toward the betterment of government.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)PatSeg
(49,586 posts)Did you mean special counsel?
RicROC
(1,223 posts)moonscape
(5,269 posts)never be confirmed.
TNNurse
(7,084 posts)Letitia James, has a plan and evidence ready to go. Since no one in the federal government can do anything to stop her....let her get going.
Lochloosa
(16,384 posts)Let NY and other states handle Trump and his family.
avebury
(11,060 posts)that pardons only cover crimes up to the point that the pardon is granted. It does not cover future crimes.
What are the chances that the members of the Trump family will not commit crimes after he is booted out of the WH?
And handing out pardons like candy will not help members of Congress who might receive one when he/she is up for re-election.
Celerity
(46,154 posts)Mueller as a hardliner. He was weak, clearly past his expiry date in terms of overall capacity to function, and extremely disappointing in terms of upholding the constitutional rule of law. At the end of the day, he simply played the role of a cardboard cut-out, whether intentionally or not. I have very, very little respect for his performance in regards to his borderline shambolic handling of the investigation. He was in over his head in terms of his faculties and abilities at that point, IMHO. His final testimony showed him to be a shell of the person he used to be. Not everyone ages out well, and he is prime example of that.
Link to tweet
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)That's why I said not Mueller. But if you read the Mueller report, it is actually a case for impeachment and indictment, full stop. A very, very strong case. He just aged out (hate to say this). And in the culture of imagery and power he was rendered weak. We need someone who is very tough and can handle the bullshit that they spew. Thus 'hardliner.'
kentuck
(112,515 posts)There must be justice. Without justice, there is no peace.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)and I hope it is a pit bull with very sharp teeth, but I think Secretary of State is probably a bit more important. Just my opinion.
BComplex
(8,978 posts)to include some set in stone rules for how many voting places to allow per person in the area. We have to stop this 11-hour wait that some states had. I assume the Elections Commission handles that? I don't know.
WinstonSmith4740
(3,147 posts)It was always a toss up for me. I thought picking Kamala as his running mate was fucking great, and Adam was never a "back up" choice for me...they're both pit bulls. (A breed I love, BTW) I've been waiting 4 years to see Trump's head explode on national TV, and having "Shifty Pencil-Neck Schiff" throwing the book at him might just do it. But Preet Bharara would give him fits, too. Damn...we have so much talent on our side of the aisle, it's tough to choose.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)thesquanderer
(12,283 posts)...a case where bipartisanship in staffing would lead to, I suspect, a lot of scrutiny upon one Jared Kushner.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)ancianita
(38,073 posts)Both are aware of the intel, especially Goldman, and the broad scope of the AG
MoonchildCA
(1,337 posts)Chris Christie is a revengeful, crooked, bully. I wouldnt want to see him anywhere near the White House.
Botany
(72,223 posts)Glenn Kirschner, Adam Schiff, Lawrence Tribe, or Katy Porter.
lastlib
(24,646 posts)Botany
(72,223 posts)BTW Joe has been a lawyer and taught law @ the University of Delaware for years
and V.P. Harris has a J.D. from Berkley, was a D.A., California's A.G., and a US
Senator too so whomever they pick I will trust their judgement.
yonder
(9,990 posts)WinstonSmith4740
(3,147 posts)We have so much damn talent, Biden's going to have a hard time choosing for most offices. I love the idea of Katy Porter as the head of the consumer protection board that Elizabeth Warren started (and Trump destroyed). I'm getting the "warm fuzzy's" just picturing her interrogating the bastards that have been running roughshod over consumer rights.
Botany
(72,223 posts)She would make an awesome A.G..
WinstonSmith4740
(3,147 posts)Like I said...an embarrassment of riches. It going to be so nice to have smart, honest adults in charge again.
Botany
(72,223 posts)Schrier was born and raised in Los Angeles, California,[1] and earned a bachelor's degree from the University of California, Berkeley, graduating Phi Beta Kappa with a degree in astrophysics. She attended the University of California Davis School of Medicine, where she earned her Doctor of Medicine. She continued on to a residency at the Stanford University School of Medicine. from wiki
WinstonSmith4740
(3,147 posts)Thank you for the introduction! With those credentials, she's obviously a Democrat. I'm thinking now that a cabinet level position should be created...Science Secretary, or something on that line. Someone who would take all this shit seriously, who could lead real research on stuff like climate change and oh, I don't know...pandemics?
Botany
(72,223 posts)....the driving forces behind various departments and that would work its way to
cabinet leaders. But all that has changed under recent GOP presidencies.
I remember my father had to go to Asia and he was a professor and knew people
in govt. in D.C. and they set him up with some people from the State Dept. and
he said those people were awesome and got him up to speed on each of the nations
he was going to visit along with briefing books.
Funny, to get the C-19 pandemic outbreak under control we will need "big government"
and we should tell the dumb fucks to piss off.
DinahMoeHum
(22,412 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2020, 11:17 AM - Edit history (1)
. . .and as such, he will delegate that authority.
gab13by13
(24,574 posts)yes he was on Mueller's team but he stated in his book he wanted to go further than Mueller went.
Weissman took on the mob and that's the kind of AG that will be needed. He knows NY.
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)He should stay above the fray. Let the agencies do the jobs they're meant to do without interference.
Response to joshcryer (Original post)
CatLady78 This message was self-deleted by its author.
CaptainTruth
(7,156 posts)former9thward
(33,353 posts)It is part of the Executive Branch and it is not independent of the President. The President appoints the AG and dozens of top positions in the department. All of the approximately 90 U.S. Attorneys are appointed by the President and they are partisan. Always have been.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Until the Trump administration the DOJ has been independent.
It is against the established rules for a President to communicate with ANYONE in the DOJ on an individual case (like Trump did with the FBI n his NS Advisor).
If a President has an interest in a case the protocol is for the President to communicate to the White House Counsel who communicates with the DOJ counsel who communicates with the AG.
Richard Nixon famously broke this protocol with a comment about Manson's guilt which he had to walk back the next day.
The 90 US Attorneys are political appointees not partisan appointees and there is a very strong record of US Attorneys not acting in a partisan manner. In the Bush administration Rove contacted some (7 if I remember correctly) US Attorneys (violating the established fire walls described above) to get involved in close election cases and none of them did and were fired.
Even more significant was Barr's instructions to all US Attorneys to get involved in local election fraud and none of the 90 US Attorneys took the bait.
Beyond having fire walls the DOJ has maintained its independence by having any political case handled by career attorneys not politically appointed one's.
While the independence of the DOJ has been "bent" prior to Trump it has never been broken even during the Saturday Night Massacre. Under the Obama administration there was no bending and the DOJ worked independently as designed.
That doesn't mean that the administration doesn't have policy objectives that are implemented, like stronger enforcement of civil rights cases, it doesn't interfere with individual cases or the rule of law.
Nasruddin
(820 posts)Until it is no longer a part of the executive branch, it and its AG are creatures of the president.
Independent? Remember Mr Nixon. Bobby Kennedy was the president's brother & they were 2 peas in a pod.
I don't know about the others but those are 2 other obvious ones in my lifetime.
Maybe Justice should be in the judiciary branch with some other kind of process for assigning the job of AG than now.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)that insulate it from partisan abuse.
Just because it is in the Executive branch with a political appointee does not mean that it is a political or partisan agency. The FAA, CDC and FDA are all in the Executive branch but are not partisan or political.
The fact that you have to reach back 60 years to Kennedy proves my point not yours. Following Robert Kennedy's tenure legislation was passed and family members were prohibited from taking cabinet positions.
Nixon fired two AGs in an effort to eliminate the special prosecutor's push to force him to release the tapes. Sessions followed proper DOJ procedures when he refused himself, again showing how protocols create a fire wall be tween DOJ and the WH.
Trump/Barr have waged a partisan war to undermine DOJ independence. On 1/20/2021 we will reverse that and return it to its independent role.
citizen blues
(582 posts)There is still a stack of sealed endictments handed down by a Virginia and DC grand juries. NY prosecution will move forward.
What will.probably be the most interesting to watch is how his international creditors are going to descend upon him and his family like a pack of wolves.
Biden really wont have to do anything. Hell just need to step aside and let the wheels of justice turn.
Ingersollman
(204 posts)Schiff for AG. He already knows where all the bodies are buried. He is fearless and relentless.
BComplex
(8,978 posts)between the white house, the DOJ, and the IG's. Plus we need to make sure a presidential pardon can never extend to anyone associated with an investigation of an administration getting pardoned, including the president himself. If he commits crimes against any part of the united states, he should never be able to be pardoned.
That a president has ever been able to be pardoned in itself is a crime.
gibraltar72
(7,624 posts)machoneman
(4,121 posts)Cabinet members for graft, theft, lying to Congress and far more. All of his press secretaries for lying about EVERYTHING. Betsy DeVoid for favoring greedy loan companies and how she personally profited. Ben Carson, merely for being a stupid dolt!
Members of Congress with Russian and Saudi ties. Trump's entire crime family starting with Kushner, then Ivanka, then Jr....but skipping Eric since he's so, so dumb he could not have done anything wrong!
Oh, and back to press secretaries? Kayleigh McStupid-niny and Kellyskank Spinway need to be incarcerated in an all-male prison so they can spend the rest of their lives talking and lying their way out of...............
Happy Hoosier
(8,274 posts)Yes, appoint a new independent prosecutor with a mandate to follow the the evidence where it leads. The HANDS OFF.
avebury
(11,060 posts)and let him/her have at it while staying out of things.
If nothing is done to hold the Trump Administration (and Rethug enablers) accountable for all the crap that they have done that will piss off a lot of Democrats. They have committed some crimes against humanity (tearing children away from their families and either putting them cages or giving them away to who knows what); grossly mishandled the Covid Pandemic; been involved in countless efforts to interfere with the election; treated the US Treasury like it is their own piggy bank; voluntarily and/or monetarily sold who know how much information to our enemies; and so on and so on.
I would like to see people like Glen Kirschner, Preet Bharara, Sally Yates brought into the DOJ. Appoint a Special Counsel to investigate the Trump Administration.
I personally am sick and tired of Democrats expected to be the adults in the room and give the Rethugs a pass in order to try to bring both sides together. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting things to change. They don't and we get chewed up every time.
Biden has a tough road ahead to try to undo the damages caused by Trump, actually make progress for the benefit of the masses, deal with Republicans who will stonewall him at every time and not piss off the Democratic base at the same time.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)It is not his position to do that. It is the position of those who are actually qualified and who have been doing it for a long time. We have superstars, let them shine, and Biden needs to stay far away from it.
"No comment" should be his mantra.
avebury
(11,060 posts)He is in the position to totally stay out of it and let the right people handle it.
He just has to stick to "No Comment" and his Press Secretary sticks to "The President is far too busy trying to undo the problems created by the last administration with the COVID Pandemic and our relationships with our international allies to be concerned about the day to day operation of the AG and DOJ.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)I do think the press secretary can make some really good jabs while saying "no comment" so that would be nice to see. Love it!
fescuerescue
(4,465 posts)We don't expect the President to be out there interviewing people.
He hires someone to run it.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)People are freaking out about Biden and whether or not he'll prosecute anyone. It's not his job. And it shouldn't be his job. But I do think he needs a hardliner in the position to look in to these things.
fescuerescue
(4,465 posts)But I think that Biden is more likely to follow the path of pardons and asking NY to do so as well.
He wants to lower the tensions not raise them.
Plus Biden doesn't really want prosecutions to be the headlines right during the mid-term elections. Mid terms are always hard as it is.
That's not the way I want it. Just the way I see it.
malaise
(277,180 posts)Rec
Wounded Bear
(60,410 posts)The President should be "hands off" when it comes to investigations. Just appoint a bulldog AG and turn him loose.
seta1950
(936 posts)Andrew Weissman would be great
empedocles
(15,751 posts)barr has discredited the AG/DOJ. Need some separation, ala Mueller type.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)SunSeeker
(53,432 posts)Progressive dog
(7,193 posts)All I expect of Biden is that he appoint people who are competent and believe that the rule of law applies to everyone, without exception. I think he will.
Joe is going to end the crimality in palin sight of the Trump term.
Lock him up.
(7,423 posts)That should not be put in the hands of a partisan branch of the Government.
Was that a mistake by the Founding Fathers? (Another one?)
Imagine if LG was black and poor? He would be sitting in a jail (or worse) right now!
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)mcar
(43,344 posts)mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)Awesome post, joshcryer!
Ferrets are Cool
(21,743 posts)Nictuku
(3,843 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(11,755 posts)Mr. Biden should be seen as 'above all that.' That it's nothing personal that he feels the need for avenging. And then the AG should say as little as possible.
Sogo
(5,695 posts)refer to THE Justice Department as MY Justice Department....
Lasher
(28,222 posts)Biden is a Senate creature from the days when comity was real. It's where he's been, it's what he is. He's made it clear he wants to put all this behind us and just look ahead. It's a colossal mistake. He can't get along with people who have a deliberate intention that they are not going to get along with him. I hope he realizes this sooner than Obama did.
And now having rained on this parade, let's remember what a wonderful thing it will be to have Not Donald Trump in the White House.
Sogo
(5,695 posts)that he will not interfere with whatever decisions the Justice Department makes about whether to investigate or not.
Lasher
(28,222 posts)He's made a number of related statements. My opinion is, we're not going to see the scorched earth policies we hope for from his administration. The GOP declared war against us 5 decades ago, but there's a lot of Democrats who still don't know it.
Sogo
(5,695 posts)I personally wouldn't want to see that either....but I would like to see a healthy dose of vigilance in investigating the corruption.
Rebl2
(14,453 posts)with this approach. He will have enough to do and anyway, its not his place to investigate or suggest investigations. We didnt like it when trump demanded investigations now did we.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,440 posts)to involve Biden in Trump investigations, but Joe's job isn't to get "revenge" for us. It's the DOJ's job to get "justice". Biden and his WH should always direct those inquiries to the DOJ.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)Trump has upended all rational forms of justice.
Thanks for this great post. You are right on point!
Response to joshcryer (Original post)
AdamGG This message was self-deleted by its author.
crimycarny
(1,558 posts)I would love, love, LOVE Hillary Clinton for AG but Im realistic enough to understand shed be too controversial and would only fire up the right wing base for 2022. Second choice would be Preet Bharara.
Need someone tough, not milquetoast. I worry Sally Yates might be too cautious.
dlk
(12,234 posts)Who would be a good pit bull special prosecutor?
Liberty Belle
(9,598 posts)Becerra has been named by Biden as a possible nominee. He formerly served in the White House and knows the workings of Congress. He's a smart lawyer, progressive including on immigration issues, and has been very aggressive in filing many lawsuits that have helped halt some of the worst abuses of the Trump administration on everything from the environment to immigration policies.
I can't think of a better person.
Yes, Hilary would be karmic revenge, but too divisive and it would look too much like payback,not an impartial investigation with half the country not trusting her.
Blue Owl
(54,331 posts)This isn't really a 'personal' issue -- it's a legal issue involving broken laws, theft, fraud, obstruction, etc.
Let the judicial system do its thing, Biden doesn't have to be involved at all.
bucolic_frolic
(46,483 posts)1) at this stage it just might slow down the shredding operation at the current DOJ
2) as you say, let it be non-partisan and let if fall wherever it goes
3) I suspect the money trail, that Mueller didn't pursue, that they won't tell us about, that has origins somewhere over there geographically and historically, is so massive that it's been going on for decades, been investigated for decades, and they can only clean it up in bits and pieces lest the whole system, domestic and some international as well, collapses.
But I do read a lot of Robert Ludlum novels.
Nitram
(24,404 posts)LymphocyteLover
(6,499 posts)soldierant
(7,754 posts)Bookmarking and probably stealing.
Old Crow
(2,224 posts)I don't know how you missed it. Mueller dropped the ball by treating a wanna-be mafia don like a gentleman. The end of his investigation was one of the biggest miscalculations, and one of the biggest disappointments, in the history of the whole Trump saga.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)It is an absolutely skathing report and extremely detailed. That he couldn't/wouldn't come to a final conclusion which would've caused a constitutional crisis isn't a statement on him as an investigator.
Trump could be indicted federally simply on that report alone.
Old Crow
(2,224 posts)Can you elaborate on that?
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)If Mueller recommended indicting a sitting President based upon the facts of the report, the SCOTUS would've had to get involved, and because he'd already installed two of his own justices, there would've been a question of impartiality. It would've been nasty. They would've deferred to the Senate for impeachment, which the Senate obviously didn't do. Trump would've pardoned himself. Whole nine yards. Our hands were tied.
Old Crow
(2,224 posts)Joinfortmill
(16,174 posts)quakerboy
(14,092 posts)Biden needs to preemptively declassify as much information about previous presidents as possible.
I dont think we are done with Bush Cronys yet. Lets give the DOJ (and the population) all the information, and then let them work with it.
ucrdem
(15,700 posts)Biden ran on replacing Trump, not prosecuting him. That doesn't mean he won't be brought to justice, only that Biden won't let himself get drawn into an interminable pissing match which would become Top Stories #1-20 for the next four years, after which he'd lose in 2024.
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)We cannot heal without consequence of criminal action being enforced. Illegal acts are illegal no matter the perpetrator, no matter their position in our society. If bad actors are allowed to move on without consequence we will face much worse in the future. Possibly the very near future - like 2024. I hope we are not just going to put off the worst case scenario for 4 years.
Hekate
(94,160 posts)calimary
(83,894 posts)I know the New Yorkers are warming up in the bullpen.
But I want them cloned all over the country. And I want The Hague to look into what trump had done to all those immigrant children separated from their parents, in many cases forever.
I want EVERYONE and ANYONE who can investigate or is in a position to investigate to GET ON IT immediately, as of 12:01pm on Wednesday, January 20th, 2021.