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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am actually getting nervous
I knew Trump would act like this once he lost and I knew republicans would be complicit, but damn this is crazy....Michigan alone is getting crazy and Biden won that state more comfortable than any other of the states trump is trying to steal....its not a given that the State canvassers will certify the vote because it has the same partisan 2-2 makeup as the County canvassers and one of the republicans has already stated he has concerns and wants an audit.
Edit- and I dont trust the SCOTUS
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)They may succeed.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)They are foolish to assume it won't work.
They need to actively engage in this fight.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)Democrats are going to have to learn to fight!!! I am very concerned.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)I keep hearing this but how do you think they should be fighting?
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)They should have been countering all of this QAnon propaganda since the beginning. They need to stand up, tell the Republicans hell no and mean it.
Im not the strategist for the Democratic Party but I see NOTHING happening right now. If they are doing more, then I want to see it and know about it.
So, Trump wont cooperate with Biden and that means 150,000 more Americans may die from COVID between now and February first. THAT alone should be the talking point coming from every Democrats mouth right now. Flood the airwaves. Joe and Kamala should be on every network every day. Take the attention away from Donnie.
So, what are YOUR ideas? Or are you one of those who proposes sitting back and expecting it all to be okay come January 20th, and then acting surprised when it isnt?
The Trumpers are preparing for war with guns in my neck of the woods. How will Democrats respond to that? Calling the police who are all Trumpers themselves?
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Also the dems can call a press conference but if the press doesnt show up what good does it do?
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)You dont think the press will show up to a Dem presser? Somehow, I think they will.
Only one way to find out though...
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Not only are they fighting, they're kicking Trump's butt.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)I still want more visibility from the Biden camp on their efforts. Specific efforts. I think we are deserving of that. I dont watch news 24/7 like SOME people do, but I stay informed well enough. Tonights headlines have been all about Donnie, Jr. testing positive. As a die hard Democrat, I want the headlines to be about Biden/Harris. And that is up to Biden/Harris to make happen.
I dont need to be told how to feel or act, so Ill ignore your admonition.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)of people who seem unable or unwilling to look beyond the headlines to see that a significant amount of news coverage has been about what the president-elect, his allies and attorneys have been doing every day.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)If not, your opinion of what they have to do is no more valid than mine.
Your posts always seem to be confrontational and I tire of it. You need to consider that other people on this board have their own opinions which are just as valid as yours. I suggest if you dont like mine, that you put me on ignore.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Spot on.
yellowdogintexas
(22,252 posts)They have known Trump would try this BS stuff. They are not ignoring it
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Feckless lawyers aren't the solution.
When Michigan goes ahead and appoint their own electors which is clearly illegal and we say "we'll take that to court" we have already lost.
Cha
(297,190 posts)on the Front Lines Against trump's Fucking Lawsuits!
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)What are you calling for?
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)It is against DU rules to call for bloodshed.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)Bettie
(16,095 posts)Republicans today are not the same as they were. There isn't even a pretense of working together.
I can't count the number of times I said "he's going to do x" and my beloved husband said "Nah, that can't happen!"
It always happened.
There was never any real pushback.
He has shredded our entire system there are no checks and balances to speak of.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)The Election outcome doesn't derive from what HE decides to do, it derives from what the STATES decide to do. The STATES aren't recognizing his claims of fraud, aren't throwing out ballots, aren't delaying the certification of votes, and aren't changing laws to appoint alternative slates of Electors. Not it Michigan or Georgia or Pennsylvania or Arizona.
Honestly if someone else asks me to "talk them down", I'm going to suggest that they (metaphorically) jump, because they can't be convinced to look at the reality of the situation.
Bettie
(16,095 posts)I hope they don't succeed, but I'm not holding my breath on it either.
Too many things that "couldn't happen" have and have had practically zero pushback or consequences.
But, hey, "It's all going to be fine, that can't happen!" has worked so far, right?
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)If you believe that Trump can and will do anything, in concert with Republican Governors and the Supreme Court, then you believe they can also ignore any counter-strategy that Biden and the Democrats could up with. So, might as well give up.....
Cha
(297,190 posts)has Lawyers FIGHTING the FUCKING LAWSUITS.
Guess What .. Democracy 25.. trump 0
Pennsylvania Supreme Court Overturns Trump's Only Election Lawsuit Win
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214576996
You call that "Nothing"?
Oh & you have no idea what Team Biden is "assuming". They are assuming NOTHING. That's Not what they do.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)There is a DUer who has a son on one of the legal teams, and hes posted about it quite a bit.
Ill try to find a link.
PufPuf23
(8,772 posts)as not to cause an immediate blow up / worse national meltdown.
This is probably what is happening.
The wisest course then is to let the process continue until January 20 and Biden in office or until the process is deliberately broken by the Trump enablers.
If not, we may be looking at unimaginable world of hurt.
dchill
(38,482 posts)A Keystone Koup Klutz Klan Koup!
Which IS definitely dangerous.
catbyte
(34,376 posts)to overturn the election. They do not have more power than our Governor, Secretary of State & Attorney General. They're just throwing shit at the wall to see if anything will stick. Here in Michigan, it won't.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Whether or not it is "legal" they don't give a shit.
We will see if courts do.
My guess is only a maybe.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Thats what
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Oh my oh my.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Until then, I will remain worried.
Thanks.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Youll have to look elsewhere for right wing reassurance.
Good luck!
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Kaleva
(36,298 posts)You are assuming every Repub in the state legislature will go along with such a scheme. There is no evidence that that is likely to happen. There is evidence that it won't.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)trump will try to persuade, threaten, bribe, and beg them to do it.
we will see if they bend to his will.
so far, I have seen no republicans with a spine.
Kaleva
(36,298 posts)"But according to House Speaker Lee Chatfield, a Republican, impeachment proceedings will not advance in the House while he is the leader.
"It's no secret that I have disagreed with this governor. I have debated a lot with this governor. I have many differences with how the governor has handled COVID. We have a time and place to deal with differences that's at the ballot box. The voters of the state of Michigan will have a chance to choose in 2022," Chatfield said in a statement reported by WOOD-TV.
"Republicans are not the party of people who impeach just because they disagree with someone. We just saw that in Washington. We're not going to do that in the state of Michigan. With the facts that we have, the impeachment resolution is not going to get a vote on the House floor. It's not the right way to deal with this situation or this disagreement.
"The idea of impeachment would face another, likely insurmountable, obstacle even if it did proceed," Chatfield continued. "In the Senate there are 22 Republican and 16 Democrats. It would take 25 votes to convict. Even if the process was to make it out of the House, which it clearly will not, getting the votes in the Senate would be difficult if not impossible.""
http://www.tathasta.com/2020/11/michigans-republican-house-speaker-will_19.html
catbyte
(34,376 posts)"Republicans are not the party of people who impeach just because they disagree with someone. We just saw that in Washington. .."
Kaleva
(36,298 posts)dchill
(38,482 posts)A Keystone Koup Klutz Klan Koup!
Which IS definitely dangerous.
liberal_mama
(1,495 posts)I'm trying to be optimistic, but I keep getting a bad feeling about this.
Bettie
(16,095 posts)and, while I hope for the best, I know that this guy has one thing he's good at and that's gaming the system.
We've discovered that elected (and frankly, non-elected) Republicans, generally speaking, have zero ethics, zero integrity, but a whole lot of willingness to do anything to get their way.
Our side plays by rules that don't apply anymore because only one side accepts that rules even exist.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)Our side plays by the rules and then acts surprised when the other side does not.
Dems need to take control of this situation with a massive and effective media blitz. Joe and Kamala should have a press conference daily, loudly, and every Democratic Senator and Congressional Rep should be on prime time getting the word out as to what Trump is doing and what they are doing to counter him.
Someone. Somewhere. Needs to tell little Donnie no.
rurallib
(62,411 posts)walkingman
(7,609 posts)cilla4progress
(24,728 posts)here for me.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)they immediately said sure, why not, lets DESTROY THE COUNTRY for you, the biggest lying criminal on earth.
RAGE is the only thing I will have until justice is done.
He will destroy everything if he can.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)Proud liberal 80
(4,167 posts)But not state...and the state is just as partisan
leftieNanner
(15,084 posts)It's been sent up to the SOS office. Now Ass Face is trying to mess with the state Electors. Two high level R members of the legislature are traveling to DC to meet with him.
catbyte
(34,376 posts)Electors pledge to support the candidate they represent and may not vote otherwise. Michigan voters can be assured that all 16 Michigan electoral votes automatically go to the presidential candidate winning the popular vote.
https://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1633_8716-27662--,00.html
Edited to add emphasis
leftieNanner
(15,084 posts)But that doesn't mean the Idiot in Chief won't try. Somebody floated the idea of Republican legislatures replacing their Electors with Trumpies and he has latched onto it. He will try anything and everything to change the results of the election. I believe he thought he had the whole thing rigged beforehand. Sucks for you Donnie! We got our people out to vote!
catbyte
(34,376 posts)a bullshit move designed to delegitimize the election and it will fail.
leftieNanner
(15,084 posts)"it will fail" just like all of Donnie's other crap.
Cha
(297,190 posts)These Doom & Gloomers & Naysayers are Pissing me right the hell off.
catbyte
(34,376 posts)stolen, nullified, or voided. Neither will We The People of Michigan.
Cha
(297,190 posts)llmart
(15,536 posts)Without these amazing Democratic women, we would not be as confident that the right thing would be done. Our state is in good hands.
Let that be a lesson to everyone on here about how important midterm elections are.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)of the US population will believe this!
I don't think Trump will "steal" the election, but the damage he's causing is incalculable.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)70% will be more than enough to start rebuilding democracy with.
renate
(13,776 posts)It's so sad about the 30%. But thank goodness for the 70%.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)I wouldn't put it past them to help trump steal this. I however have some hope that John Roberts won't allow it.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)I've contacted mine. I've asked them to consider Impeachment. Trump has more than overstepped his bounds in directly contacting election officials in order to skew the outcome of the election in his favor. He needs to be removed from office ASAP. We simply cannot continue on this path for 60+ more days and expect our Democracy to remain intact.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)But Im expecting help from Ted Cruz and John Cornyn?
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)I'm so sorry!
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)I do routinely call them anyway. It makes me feel good to take up their voicemail space.
Fullduplexxx
(7,860 posts)N
philly_bob
(2,419 posts)1-representative-1-vote. This gives Republicans the House.
The issue goes to House if decertifications cause Biden's electoral votes to go below 270.
That's my understanding of the 12th amendment. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a lawyer.
Trump already has Senate and Supreme Court.
I don't think media and Dems are taking this threat seriously.
philly_bob
(2,419 posts)If a state refuses to certify, the target is not 270, as I say above, but a percentage of the remaining states with certified election -- less than 270.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)All other disputes that go to the House are settled by majority vote.
And if they don't get settled, the Speaker becomes president.
And if a state doesn't certify, the winner is the candidate who wins a majority of the certified electors, not the full 538.
philly_bob
(2,419 posts)grobertj
(187 posts)There is no legal means to change a certification vote. Michigan is done...nothing to worry about.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)That was the next step and opportunity to interfere.
Proud liberal 80
(4,167 posts)I think only the county has
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... he/she was talking about conties?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)She said the counties had certified and the state board of canvassers is required to certify those results. They don't have any discretion.
Lochloosa
(16,063 posts)Proud liberal 80
(4,167 posts)If he is doing these shenanigans there, what does he have planned for the others
Lochloosa
(16,063 posts)Proud liberal 80
(4,167 posts)The State Board of Canvassers still have to meet and certify...and they have the same 2-2 partisan makeup. And the Republicans on the board (norm shinkle and Aaron Van Langeveld) are already acting like they will vote no.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)brooklynite
(94,520 posts)PANIC!!!
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)Since trying the Legislature gambit is all they have left.
What are you thinking? (I sincerely want to know)
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)Biden's Electors will vote for him. End of story.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)You tend to be very pragmatic about this stuff, too, so was curious.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)It is far from "normal" and we are teetering on the precipice of a dictatorship.
Will it succeed?
One hopes not.
We may yet have a few bulwarks stand up and carry on normal election processes.
But I am not nearly so sanguine about those bulwarks holding.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)Despite Trump's tweets and legal machinations, NOTHING is happening to change the end result.
Cha
(297,190 posts)Gloomers are Not helping.
PufPuf23
(8,772 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)LeftInTX
(25,293 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)LeftInTX
(25,293 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Kaleva
(36,298 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)as there as many people much better at pretending to know the future than me, yet I remain boldly confident that our democratic system can resist and overcome the petulance and pettiness of sacred cows and demagogues.
mnmoderatedem
(3,728 posts)about Red Don burning down the house.
I'm worried about withholding or destroying records and information related to COVID or other critical national security information, for no other reason than spite, and sticking it to Biden and the dems. Of course this is immeasurably damaging to the country as a whole.
But to the trumpists, sticking a finger in the eye of the democrats is far more important to them than national security issues. Always has been.
spinbaby
(15,089 posts)My dentist said shes never seen so much tooth grinding.