General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUS compared to Germany Covid deaths
Germany has about 1/4 of the population of the US.
To date, they've lost 13,390 citizens to the virus.
13,400 x 4 = 53,600 is the number we could've had
US deaths to date: (rounded) 252,000.
252,000 - 53,600 = 198,400.
That's 198,400 people that would still be alive if not for crooked Donnie's intentional mishandling
A friend of a friend's response:
"This chart shows % of deaths per case which shows USA at 2.2% and Germany at 1.5%. USA avg. The avg. deaths per day/capita is only 2 for the USA and they are way below so many other countries. My point is that I know you all hate Trump but him saying to wear a mask was not going to change these numbers. Just be fair and transparent and say that this virus impacted every country."
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-us-coronavirus...
Math is not my strong suit but to my eyes, x 4 wouldn't it be 4 x higher or, 400% higher?
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Or at least not translating it into the appropriate words.
"The avg. deaths per day/capita is only 2 for the USA"
That would mean we've all died ... twice ... every day since it started.
Cha
(298,049 posts)& 72 million idiots still voted for the orange swamp blob.
I don't see how the Germany comparison can be interpreted any other way
Midnight Writer
(21,853 posts)unblock
(52,494 posts)Our deaths per cases numbers may be good because we have good medical care and facilities. If you get covid, you're probably better off in an American hospital than a foreign one.
But the main policy disaster here is that we let the number of cases spiral out of control. We've got public figures actually engaging in and encouraging behavior that increases cases.
Citing deaths per cases is stupid and misses the problem completely.
The problem is too many cases.
Pachamama
(16,887 posts)While they definitely have done better than the US and have at least in place health insurance for their citizens and pay 65-70% of their income even when to be at home, Germany is about to enter a very dark period in this story.
At first in March and the Spring, Germany had a lockdown and they were able to keep numbers low compared to the rest of Europe and certainly compared to the US. They had a mandatory mask regulation in all stores and public spaces that was mandated nation wide by law. The summer months were wonderful - beautiful weather and everyone was outside - dining at restaurants and bars and even going on vacation.
How do I know? Because I have been in Germany and came here to be safer than it was in US.
But that was then - this is now.
Germans got arrogant and somehow pandemic fatigue psychologically as is human nature. They too sadly have their Q conspiracy theorists and those that call themselves Querdenker. (Sideways Thinkers) and these people think masks are a joke, that the government and doctors are conspiring and want to chip them and alter them with a genetic modify through vaccines, that Covid is no worse than the flu, etc...
In September, there was no official Oktoberfest but oh how the Bavarians and many Visitors celebrated going to large (over 100 persons) gatherings of Oktoberfest parties and in restaurants and close quarters with no mask as they drank and ate. And schools were opened and people went to bars and clubs and acted like life was normal and the rest of the world was suffering but Germany spared.
Well - now they are paying the price and the Germans havent even grasped quite yet how serious things are. The numbers are jumping. And even though on November 2nd Germany announced a Lockdown Lite for the month of November where schools remained opened and all restaurants and bars closed, Germans are still gathering despite warnings and there have been more and more protests in Berlin and Leipzig with the opponents of mask measures and lockdowns and the spread continues. Many are delusionally here thinking that next week the lockdown will be lifted but I predict it will not be and if anything even stricter measures will be implemented- assuming Merkel doesnt have continued repudiation from the various Bundeslander (their state equivalents). But the situation is worse than Germans realize. And they really arent getting the message. When I walk down the street or bike, I always have my mask on. I have regularly been mocked randomly by people who say its more dangerous to breathe in CO2. I had someone tell me that Anthony Fauci and Bill Gates were behind this pandemic. My observations of the streets is only about 10% of the people are wearing masks outside when out and about on streets.
The rude and sad awakening will be coming soon to Germany and their dark winter coming. The Univ of Washington predicts that by March 1st Germany unless it takes extra measures and has 95% mask wearing and social distancing will have as many as 129,000+ dead. Half that if measures are taken. Still if right now on Nov 22nd Germany has approximately 14,000 dead over the course of 7 months and is about to jump in a matter of 3 months to such numbers, their hospital ICU resources cannot handle the load and their will be much suffering and sadness. Germans will be shocked and I assure you are not prepared emotionally and mentally for what is coming and it will be a very dark Winter - just as it is in many places and also in US.
So again - please do not sing the praises of Germany. This is false.
And as I write this, I am preparing to return to US to California. At least the Bay Area is doing better than the rest of California and the numbers have been level and its the only place exempt from the current state lockdown. But I will be safer there than Germany. I have a home with a garden and near nature where when I can go out safely I will walk in the Warmer weather than Germany. I plan to be alone and self quarantine initially and in general stay in and have minimal outside contact.
My hope and prayers will be that both Germany and the US (and rest of world) will be able to begin in the next few months the vaccinations and that maybe all these deniers and careless people will take care and mask up and stop spreading the virus and that we can all come out of a very dark and sad winter into a Spring with some light at the end of the tunnel.
But sadly there will be many dead in US....and yes....in Germany too...
Be safe everyone and stay healthy...
Hav
(5,969 posts)At the very least there seem to be some sort of lockdown measures in place while in the US with 150k new daily cases, the Repubs' stance is proudly announcing that there will be no lockdown.
If this is the prognosis for Germany, I wonder how catastrophic those expected numbers are for the US and also other countries who have been doing considerably worse than Germany.
Pachamama
(16,887 posts)I hope that I and all the data along with my observations are wrong
I really do hope I am wrong. But data and facts dont lie and I am telling you its worse than Germans realize. And its simple - masks work. Social distancing and minimizing and eliminating contacts - work.
Germans have not done what they should have and the numbers will show this.
Many Americans and certain states and of course Trump supporters have ignored these facts and guidelines and recommendations for mask wearing etc
So - yes, lets revisit and I hope I am wrong.
But I have not been wrong so far and was right when I came here in early summer and I am pretty certain that I am now. I hope I am wrong and that it will not be so bad. But I am afraid based on what I have seen, that it will be bad.
Hav
(5,969 posts)but because it is scary, not just for Germany. If it's true for Germany, it will be similar for many countries. I actually fear the winter with the usual flu mixed in which means many more people spreading viruses but that jump to 10 times the number of deaths is mind-blowing.
Shermann
(7,488 posts)It's not about praising Germany, it's about determining the range of possible outcomes for advanced countries with broad populist/nationalist/conservative support. Merkel has adhered to the science at the top level and has had a much better outcome as a result.
It's less useful in my opinion to compare our numbers with South Korea or China, that's just not realistic here.
If Germany finds a way to enlist their conservatives to join the battle, we'll be watching that closely as well.
Hav
(5,969 posts)Deaths per cases may be comparable but certainly not the number of cases and the number of deaths per capita. More people wearing masks would have reduced the spread of the virus. Fewer cases and fewer deaths would have been the result. It's extremely dishonest to argue solely based on one factor of the equation.
Further, hospitals getting overburdened with handling Covid cases also has negative effects on those patients who are there for other issues.
genxlib
(5,547 posts)The deaths per case number is relevant to the number of cases so the fact that we have so many cases is what makes our situation tragic.
But there is another dynamic at work here. There is an assumption that the 'death per case' statistic models how effectively we are treating the cases. I think that is part of the answer but I think the larger part of that statistic is a question of which cases we find.
In the early days, testing was so poorly executed that many people could never get tests. So many people never became a confirmed case until they got very sick. As testing became more widely available, that statistic started to normalize towards a true 'death per symptomatic case' figure. Over the last few months, there has been more proactive testing done so it is finding asymptomatic cases that were previously not identified. This further skews the number by including some essentially healthy people into the denominator of fraction.
The bottom line is that the statistic is meaningless unless it is compared to the testing protocols that determine the number of "cases"
malaise
(269,295 posts)Great post