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angrychair

(8,748 posts)
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:25 PM Nov 2020

Micheal Steele Just Turned

On Joy's show. He just signaled the flip back to normal republican politics when the ink wasn't even dry on the GSA paperwork.

He started arguing with Joy, defending people like Mike Lee and getting in a dig on AOC for good measure.
For her part Joy enthusiastically defended AOC as truly caring about not just her constituents but all Americans should have a Thanksgiving meal and food for every other day.

It was stark. That friendly joking Michael was not there anymore.

I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times again: FUCK REPUBLICANS.

115 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Micheal Steele Just Turned (Original Post) angrychair Nov 2020 OP
YEP, i saw it HAB911 Nov 2020 #1
and her follow up guest telling us what fine people repub senators are and we should reach msongs Nov 2020 #2
Like GOPer Senators attempted to work with President Obama? groundloop Nov 2020 #53
That was a very telling exchange. Steele must have some deal cooking. Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2020 #3
YES montanacowboy Nov 2020 #4
i dont think so. drray23 Nov 2020 #5
Thanks. Folks are quick to miss the point around here. Hoyt Nov 2020 #15
I respectfully disagree angrychair Nov 2020 #19
we will see if that continues. drray23 Nov 2020 #21
Yep. PragmaticLiberal Nov 2020 #29
Thanks. BannonsLiver Nov 2020 #43
All views should be discussed DownriverDem Nov 2020 #91
Thank you Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #106
AOC's voters and supporters are right. PTWB Nov 2020 #95
I saw it and said the same thing to my husband. There is not one good Republican. NOT EVEN ONE. onecaliberal Nov 2020 #6
Agree a million percent. blueinredohio Nov 2020 #7
That's where I am at this point too Bettie Nov 2020 #18
We cannot tolerate the segregating of people as "other" onecaliberal Nov 2020 #20
We cannot tolerate the segregating of people as "other" onecaliberal Nov 2020 #22
So how long before Nichole slides back to the comfort of her Republican ways??? eom a kennedy Nov 2020 #79
Already happened yesterday. onecaliberal Nov 2020 #82
Never could stand the pos SheltieLover Nov 2020 #8
I don't care. He is a Republican. He did help us oust trump. LakeArenal Nov 2020 #9
Yes. ShazzieB Nov 2020 #71
Exactly!!! Not entirely sure if Nicole Wallace will revert. Probably. She did have a stint on Fux. LakeArenal Nov 2020 #73
I saw it, as well as Nicolle's tell on her show. MoonRiver Nov 2020 #10
What did Nicolle say? oregonjen Nov 2020 #16
Yes shanti Nov 2020 #46
Yup..that did not take long! F him! Oh the looks Joy have him! 🔥 nt helpisontheway Nov 2020 #11
There's nothing new about Never Trumpers not liking AOC. highplainsdem Nov 2020 #12
I loved bdamomma Nov 2020 #13
Very noticeable. C_U_L8R Nov 2020 #14
Yes and.. Fpj Nov 2020 #17
Wait till Morning Joe comes on tomorrow, no need to watch that shit show anymore. dem4decades Nov 2020 #23
Joe has never changed his stripes. Fla Dem Nov 2020 #31
Yep Rebl2 Nov 2020 #39
Steele was used by the republicans, discarded and now he wants back in. Don't trust him. Barbara2423 Nov 2020 #24
Steele is an opportunist richdj25 Nov 2020 #34
If you think thats bad Mr. Sparkle Nov 2020 #25
Just wait till the Lincoln Project starts fucking us. marble falls Nov 2020 #26
And they surely will Kitchari Nov 2020 #38
Yes Rebl2 Nov 2020 #40
I never could stand him. ananda Nov 2020 #27
Same. Aside from the fact that he's a Republican, his personality is annoying. Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2020 #68
A tiny taste of what's to come mdbl Nov 2020 #28
yes and for the LOVE OF GOD will dems finaly realize the gop doesn't EVER want to cooperate? - n/t Locrian Nov 2020 #32
We tend to forget that Dem4Life1102 Nov 2020 #30
I thought similar things about Steve Schmidt the other day bucolic_frolic Nov 2020 #33
"Mr. Schultz? Steve Schmidt is on line 1, asking if he can get his old job back!" bullwinkle428 Nov 2020 #35
YES - SAW THAT. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY... calclar Nov 2020 #36
Welcome to DU ... aggiesal Nov 2020 #41
THANK YOU... calclar Nov 2020 #42
lol! Interesting! nt ecstatic Nov 2020 #37
no surprise - that's republicans for ya. useless. NRaleighLiberal Nov 2020 #44
I DO agree. BigDemVoter Nov 2020 #45
You can't rescue the hamburger that fell of the grill kyburbonkid Nov 2020 #47
Reality LiberalBear Nov 2020 #48
Could not disagree more angrychair Nov 2020 #63
Well said LiberalBear Nov 2020 #66
Me too, LiveralBear. ShazzieB Nov 2020 #72
I would welcome them too. Jakes Progress Nov 2020 #84
Good post, LiberalBear mtnsnake Nov 2020 #101
There will be nothing to return to. roamer65 Nov 2020 #49
No Republicans compromised Jimvanhise Nov 2020 #50
Can't criticize Doug Jones, though. halfulglas Nov 2020 #51
+1 BootinUp Nov 2020 #57
+1 million live love laugh Nov 2020 #52
WTF, Steele? BobTheSubgenius Nov 2020 #54
The Lincoln Project equals Operation Paperclip Woodycall Nov 2020 #55
Once a repug... Ferrets are Cool Nov 2020 #56
He's entitled Azathoth Nov 2020 #58
This is why I never wanted to welcome them into our party. Marie Marie Nov 2020 #59
He knows what side his bread is buttered on PCIntern Nov 2020 #60
Once a republican, always a republican. Doreen Nov 2020 #61
They are treacherous, slimy bottom-dwellers. lastlib Nov 2020 #108
For a second I thought you meant he renounced his party, and turned Democratic! LiberalLovinLug Nov 2020 #62
I saw that as well. Fuck all Republicans, forever and always. Coventina Nov 2020 #64
All of these Republicans, Bill Maher, etc are only exploiting R B Garr Nov 2020 #65
He didn't turn. Xolodno Nov 2020 #67
DUers didn't believe me when I posted this back in the day IronLionZion Nov 2020 #69
It's a free country. They're not obliged to agree with me, nor I with them. struggle4progress Nov 2020 #70
K&R for, yip they were only taking refuge for the duration. Back to being them. UTUSN Nov 2020 #74
If MSNBC & CNN think I'm going to tune in to watch disaffected repubs bash the dems, CrispyQ Nov 2020 #75
They can have him, Warren_Pointe Nov 2020 #76
Oh dear god no. Loki Liesmith Nov 2020 #77
A gradual change might come over some of them Redleg Nov 2020 #78
LET'S NOT REACT STUPID. Half this nation is conservative. Hortensis Nov 2020 #80
I suspect in Steele's case it's what in Spain they called being "more Catholic than the Pope" sandensea Nov 2020 #81
Oh, so what? Why does anyone care that much? CTyankee Nov 2020 #93
You and I may not - but minority Republicans (typically) do, and very much sandensea Nov 2020 #96
I just don't think they matter that much. We have SO MUCH talent on our side, we really don't CTyankee Nov 2020 #100
True. They had it all: Support from Big Biz, Wall Street, Russia, Israel, the Holy Rollers, etc. sandensea Nov 2020 #103
Yep. Watch for Lincoln Project ads attacking Biden. Jakes Progress Nov 2020 #83
YEAH ! Like their very latest one .... oh wait ... OnDoutside Nov 2020 #97
You go ahead and trust republicans Jakes Progress Nov 2020 #102
You're missing the point. The aim of that ad is towards "ordinary" republicans who are still in the OnDoutside Nov 2020 #104
You give them more credit than is due. Jakes Progress Nov 2020 #110
I would recommend you listen to the latest episode of the Battleground podcast with Schmidt and OnDoutside Nov 2020 #111
I would recommend you study the tea party movement Jakes Progress Nov 2020 #113
Blaming the Tea Party on Schmidt is a stretch, all because he was involved in the Palin VP selection OnDoutside Nov 2020 #114
Oh, dear. Reading into what isn't' there. Jakes Progress Nov 2020 #115
This is one for the "I told you so" department eleny Nov 2020 #85
I know this is a big deal to some...but honestly I don't care one way or the other. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #86
Show of hands. Who really thought Steele was here to stay? apnu Nov 2020 #87
Supply-siders never change their stripes pecosbob Nov 2020 #88
Amen Joinfortmill Nov 2020 #89
once a fuckhead, always a fuckhead - never got why anyone believes these assholes bringthePaine Nov 2020 #90
I saw it too. we can do it Nov 2020 #92
The whole Lincoln Project concept was traditional Republicans vs. Trump Republicans Mr. Ected Nov 2020 #94
Seriously, what planet are you on ? There's no going back for them, and Trump has an even bigger OnDoutside Nov 2020 #98
Here's hoping. I have come to really appreciate their opines. Evolve Dammit Nov 2020 #107
here's the video, it was far beyond just AOC, Steele was defending many of the Trump ass-lickers Celerity Nov 2020 #99
I saw that. No shock here XanaDUer2 Nov 2020 #105
The enemy of my enemy is not my friend. nt. BlueIdaho Nov 2020 #109
Wow what a surprise 🙄 NOT! nt Raine Nov 2020 #112

msongs

(67,465 posts)
2. and her follow up guest telling us what fine people repub senators are and we should reach
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:28 PM
Nov 2020

out to them

groundloop

(11,528 posts)
53. Like GOPer Senators attempted to work with President Obama?
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 10:52 PM
Nov 2020

We should give them just as much cooperation and consideration as they extended to President Obama....... ZERO.

montanacowboy

(6,107 posts)
4. YES
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:28 PM
Nov 2020

And now we have on Doug Jones extolling the virtues of the Republicans how they aren't as bad as we think, and they are honorable people and Joe will find a way to work with them.

FUCK THIS FUCKING SHIT, HERE WE GO AGAIN. WHEN OH WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN/??????? FUCK YOU MICHAEL STEELE

drray23

(7,638 posts)
5. i dont think so.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:30 PM
Nov 2020

he made the point that in deep red states people who vote for the crazy gopers believe they are good for them just as AOC's voters do. Essentially we have big divisions.

He was also saying that our party being a big tent party has frictions between strong liberals like AOC and others. We see it play out every day on twitter. The repubs tend to fall in line.

angrychair

(8,748 posts)
19. I respectfully disagree
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:50 PM
Nov 2020

But yours is the most charitable interpretation of that exchange between them.

It was stark in comparison to past exchanges.

BannonsLiver

(16,531 posts)
43. Thanks.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 10:13 PM
Nov 2020

I assumed the characterization by the OP was biased and inaccurate based on previous posts about TLP and others. It appears that was the case.

DownriverDem

(6,232 posts)
91. All views should be discussed
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 06:18 PM
Nov 2020

but get rid of the progressive label. We are the Democratic Party. Some of us lean more left than others. Hash ideas out without having some divisive wing.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
95. AOC's voters and supporters are right.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 06:42 PM
Nov 2020

If everyone in politics believed as she does we would be far better off as a society.

onecaliberal

(32,940 posts)
6. I saw it and said the same thing to my husband. There is not one good Republican. NOT EVEN ONE.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:35 PM
Nov 2020

Zip, zilch, nada, NONE.

Bettie

(16,134 posts)
18. That's where I am at this point too
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:48 PM
Nov 2020

there are none.

I don't care if they say "Well, I don't like most of their policies, but I don't want to pay taxes!" or

I am "pro-life" or

Any of the fucking excuses they have.

The fact is that if you are a Republican you are OK with racism, misogyny, anti-LGBTQIA people having civil rights...the telling thing is that they hate far too many groups of people to even easily list. Oh, and they love KKK and Nazis.

onecaliberal

(32,940 posts)
20. We cannot tolerate the segregating of people as "other"
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:51 PM
Nov 2020

I am against that and those who stand for it in every way, shape, form and fashion.

onecaliberal

(32,940 posts)
22. We cannot tolerate the segregating of people as "other"
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 09:00 PM
Nov 2020

I am against that and those who stand for it in every way, shape, form and fashion.

ShazzieB

(16,569 posts)
71. Yes.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 11:52 AM
Nov 2020

I am grateful for the Lincoln Project's help in getting rid of the Orange Plague. I never expected them to turn into Democrats or anything like that. I remember watching Michael Steele on Joy's show before the election and thinking "This is really nice. Too bad it can't last."

LakeArenal

(28,863 posts)
73. Exactly!!! Not entirely sure if Nicole Wallace will revert. Probably. She did have a stint on Fux.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:27 PM
Nov 2020

But I’m sure Steve Schmidt will and his barbed opinions will now be directed at Dems.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
10. I saw it, as well as Nicolle's tell on her show.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:40 PM
Nov 2020

Now that Idiot is gone, these people may slowly start cycling back to their roots.

C_U_L8R

(45,027 posts)
14. Very noticeable.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 08:42 PM
Nov 2020

But he's not going to be getting any Democratic consulting gigs. I'm not blaming him for going back home to find some work. We'll see if he stick with his morals.

richdj25

(164 posts)
34. Steele is an opportunist
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 09:36 PM
Nov 2020

He's using Republican spread to butter his bread. He obviously can't cut it in Democrat circles, because not smart enough to embrace/comprehend what constitutes real policy decisions. In GOP circles, he doesn't have to think about policy.........just stay the course as a token, ,

Mr. Sparkle

(2,953 posts)
25. If you think thats bad
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 09:06 PM
Nov 2020

wait until the media turn on the Biden administration in the next few months. There is no left wing media, we have no media.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,771 posts)
68. Same. Aside from the fact that he's a Republican, his personality is annoying.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:18 AM
Nov 2020

He has far too high an opinion of himself.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
32. yes and for the LOVE OF GOD will dems finaly realize the gop doesn't EVER want to cooperate? - n/t
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 09:32 PM
Nov 2020

bucolic_frolic

(43,393 posts)
33. I thought similar things about Steve Schmidt the other day
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 09:32 PM
Nov 2020

what these never-Trumpers will try is to push away the left and lead their Main Street Republicans in the way they always did. But they will find their ranks thinned, little cooperation, and no power. They are trying to lead a restoration that's not there anymore.

calclar

(55 posts)
36. YES - SAW THAT. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY...
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 09:39 PM
Nov 2020

...IS NOT A LEGITIMATE USA PARTY. THEY ARE, AND HAVE BEEN A MINORITY RULE PARTY SINCE REAGAN/THATCHER. JUST LOOK AT THE ELECTORAL VS. PARTY/NATIONAL VOTE SINCE REAGAN. LOOK AT REDISTRICTING, GERRYMANDERING, VOTER SUPPRESSION!!!!!!

THEY STAND AGAINST EVERYTHING THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS SEE AS ESSENTIAL.... SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE, MEDICAID, ETC, ETC, ETC...

BigDemVoter

(4,157 posts)
45. I DO agree.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 10:21 PM
Nov 2020

What was REALLY telling was when the "never Trumpers" would whine about Trump but would turn right around and start pining away for the good old days of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. . . Yeah, THAT is how we ended up with Pussy-Grabber.

I don't regret the Lincoln Project ads, but they are STILL repigs at heart.

LiberalBear

(24 posts)
48. Reality
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 10:26 PM
Nov 2020

Now I don't trust a rethuglican any farther than I could kick one the size of fat ass Chris "Roadblock" Christie, but politics has a reality and American democracy is about compromise and vote counting. Joy has it wrong and Steele has it right, and I cannot believe I am typing this but hear me out. REALITY: rethugs hold seats in the senate and congress. COMPROMISE: see Obama care, not the single payer I wanted but the program that could get the votes to pass....and it has helped a lot of people so not a touchdown pass but a first down. I am not saying we give into rethugs in any way shape or form, but if one or two join us to get background checks expanded or vote to pass Covid relief, or join to pass some immigration reform am I going to say no thanks, I do not trust you? No, I am going to say thanks for your vote on this bill, take what I can get, and move on knowing the same rethug will likely be fighting me tooth and nail on tax increase for millionaires and raising the social security cap.....because this is the reality and history of American political battle. We are not asking these rethugs to literally go to battle with us and protect our flank, of course they will not do that, but if we can get a few here and there, however unlikely, to join us in an isolated vote for which they feel either morally compelled (unlikely) or constitutent compelled (more likely), then hell yeah. I will hold my nose and take their vote, cause votes matter, votes effect change (see 2020 election) and votes prevent backassward moves (see McCain thumbs down on Obamacare repeal). Did I like or agree with McCain, shit no, but I celebrated his no vote! Do I agree with vulture capitalist Mitt Romney, of course not, but I welcomed his vote to hear witnesses in Senate impeachment trial. So, Joy, like the Trumpers she hates, has it wrong. American democracy works best when we do not adhere to broad brushed litmus tests but when we focus on getting and then cashing in the votes, even if the deciding vote comes from the other side. Pelosi is right to tell AOC (who I totally adore) that if she wants progressive policies go get the votes. This is how it works people. This is how it was designed to work. Look at Georgia, we got the votes, and I promise you I do not care if some of those votes were from disgruntled republicans who voted for Biden for whatever reason cause it doesn't matter why it just matters that the vote was in our column. So, don't trust the rethugs, don't ever turn a blind eye, maintain constant vigilance for their deficit busting, tax cutting, public infrastructure degrading, selling of the public square to corporatist donors.....but if one rogue Mike Lee wants to vote with us in a moment of WHATEVER, I will welcome that vote and for a brief, albeit very very brief moment, welcome him to the cause at hand......because this is how the system works.

angrychair

(8,748 posts)
63. Could not disagree more
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 11:40 PM
Nov 2020

Fuck Republicans. Always and forever. Every. Single. One.


There is a funny thing about how compromise works in the real world, especially when Republicans are involved. The saying goes:
Compromise is great as long as you are not the one being compromised.
The people being "compromised" way to often are PoC, the poor and other disenfranchised peoples. Especially when Republicans are involved.

It is impossible, in my opinion, to move forward and pretend to ignore the very real harm that Republicans have done to the ideals of responsible government
That trump has done. Their sycophantic, cultish devotion to trump. Their overt grifting and abuses of power

None of this, nothing Republicans have done this last 4 years, is normal and no one should pretend that it is. Ever.

ShazzieB

(16,569 posts)
72. Me too, LiveralBear.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:04 PM
Nov 2020

I was nodding my head as I read your post. Nothing you said equals ignoring the harm Republicans have done or pretending they are perfect.

Jakes Progress

(11,123 posts)
84. I would welcome them too.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 05:03 PM
Nov 2020

But I won't give away social security to get their vote. (Extreme example)

The reality you spoke of is the reality of 20 years ago, before mcconnell and his ilk. The republican elected in the last 20 years have no honor and are too afraid of their bosses to be reasonable. Obama trie for the first four years to be the uniter. It was in his nature. But I think by the end of his second term he had learned that that stuff doesn't fly any more. I hope that Joe will not think that he can rely on the good will of republicans to come together and help the country.

We will see right away if some republicans will be reasonable. Wish I were wrong, but I don't think so.

mtnsnake

(22,236 posts)
101. Good post, LiberalBear
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:05 PM
Nov 2020

I think that most mainstream Democrats who don't post on this forum would agree with you.

While I will never forgive the repubs like McConnell and Graham and the rest of their ilk, I will always remember the ones who spoke out against Trump including Michael Steele and Joe Scarborough who seems to be another one taking a beating around here lately. How soon some people forget....

Jimvanhise

(304 posts)
50. No Republicans compromised
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 10:34 PM
Nov 2020

The Affordable Care Act passed without a single Republican vote. They are proud of that fact and they boast about it. And Michael Steele lead the charge against the Affordable Care Act and attacked it mercilessly. During the Obama administration the RNC told its members that if anyone compromised with the Democrats that they would receive no campaign funds from the RNC.

halfulglas

(1,654 posts)
51. Can't criticize Doug Jones, though.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 10:44 PM
Nov 2020

Doug Jones is a southern Democrat who has to finish out his remaining 2 months and try to get some work done. He's a good man and outnumbered Democrats have to talk nice about the other side having good people with good intentions. His values are still intact.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,572 posts)
54. WTF, Steele?
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 10:53 PM
Nov 2020

Finally get sick of being irrelevant and impotent and thought that throwing some verbal punches might bring some attention his way. F him. Twice.

Woodycall

(259 posts)
55. The Lincoln Project equals Operation Paperclip
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 11:04 PM
Nov 2020

You can take the Nazis out of the country, but you can't take the Nazi out of the Nazis... (Little turn of an old advertising slogan).

Azathoth

(4,611 posts)
58. He's entitled
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 11:21 PM
Nov 2020

Unlike nearly every other Republican, he had the courage to criticize his party and endure career-ending abuse when they turned themselves into a death cult.

He's still an opponent, but he's one of the few opponents who have some core principles.

Marie Marie

(9,999 posts)
59. This is why I never wanted to welcome them into our party.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 11:21 PM
Nov 2020

They would water down the agenda that makes us Democrats and try to move us further right. They have a different idea of how to govern and what our priorities should be. That is OK on its own - they have differing beliefs. But that is the Republican viewpoint and does not belong in the Democratic party.

Now that Trump is gone, we will see how all of these never Trumpers behave. I didn't see the mentioned segment but it looks like, from what has been posted, we are getting a glimpse into what that behavior will be. Disappointing but not surprising. I will be real curious to see how Nicole Wallace will be in the future. She is intelligent and want to believe that she has seen the light but then I have to remind myself that she worked for and supported Bush. I guess we will soon see.

lastlib

(23,340 posts)
108. They are treacherous, slimy bottom-dwellers.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:27 PM
Nov 2020

It's why the word "republican" falls between "reptile" and "repulsive" in the dictionary.

NEVER trust one who doesn't have a stake through where its heart should be.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,178 posts)
62. For a second I thought you meant he renounced his party, and turned Democratic!
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 11:25 PM
Nov 2020

Hearing Kasich as well, with similar talking points.

The Never Trumpers and the other Republican cast outs from the Trump Party, are not only unsatisfied with finding bipartisanship, they want to influence how the Democrats make up their administration, and what kinds of policy they will put forward. They want to help to control the Democratic party from outside, with criticisms, and fear mongering to convince Biden and his advisors that going right instead of left will be better for them.

Coventina

(27,217 posts)
64. I saw that as well. Fuck all Republicans, forever and always.
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 11:47 PM
Nov 2020

They were never, are not, and never will be our friends.

R B Garr

(16,998 posts)
65. All of these Republicans, Bill Maher, etc are only exploiting
Mon Nov 23, 2020, 11:53 PM
Nov 2020

the party divisions and talking points handed to them on a silver platter...5 years ago,

Xolodno

(6,408 posts)
67. He didn't turn.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 12:13 AM
Nov 2020

He was and still is a Republican. Trump isn't a Republican, he's Trump. This was like joining forces with the Soviets during WWII, neither side trusted each other, but worked together to fight a bigger menace, the Nazi's.

IronLionZion

(45,580 posts)
69. DUers didn't believe me when I posted this back in the day
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:27 AM
Nov 2020

it's great that GOPers will agree with us once in a while on issues like Trump or racism or whatever but otherwise they will still always be GOPers on most other issues.

CrispyQ

(36,544 posts)
75. If MSNBC & CNN think I'm going to tune in to watch disaffected repubs bash the dems,
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 01:23 PM
Nov 2020

tell us what to do, or start chortling about the deficit, they are wrong. It will be interesting to see how Nicole Wallace handles the change in administration & if she can hang on to her viewership if the network decides to start disparaging the dems.

Redleg

(5,860 posts)
78. A gradual change might come over some of them
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 03:43 PM
Nov 2020

I used to be a Republican back in the 80s. My transition to liberal democrat didn't occur all at once. First I had to start to dis-affiliate with the GOP. For me, this was triggered by the Iran-Contra scandal and Col. Oliver North's actions. At that time I was a newly commissioned 2LT in the Army. There had been a time when I thought that ratfucking for a good cause was fine- a very utilitarian view on politics and governance. But Oliver North's violation of his military commission and oath caused me to think about what my commission meant and what my duties and obligations were in that regard. I became sickened by whole Iran-Contra affair, especially in how the GOP created "heroes" out of law-breakers and oath-breakers. I began to distance myself from the GOP and to question what I saw as their principles and values.

I didn't suddenly join the Dems though, I thought of myself as an independent and open-minded person. I still had some of my pro-right biases but I was more willing to listen to other voices since I had left the GOP echo chamber. After I completed my active duty service I went to work on my Masters degree and that experience gave me a broader perspective about many things, especially the economy and workplace issues. I was becoming more liberal in my thinking. Instead of arguing with my Democrat dad, I found myself agreeing with him more. At that time Bill Clinton was president and although I hadn't voted for him the first time, I was quite angry with how many of my right-wing co-workers spoke about him and Hillary. I was appalled by the kind of things that people like Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gringrich were saying and I became firmly convinced that the GOP was becoming a party of extremists. So I changed my party affiliation, voted for Clinton in the second election and have supported Democrats ever since. The GOP has continued to move farther to the right and now they are as extreme as some of the most extreme right-wing parties in other countries.

The point of my long post is that it takes time for people to change. If we use social identity theory as a framework to understand political affiliation, then a person first has to dis-affiliate with their party. Strong social identity with a group tends to produce two types of biases- a bias towards the group one identifies with and a bias against a group or groups seen in opposition to one's own group. Over time, as they leave the echo chamber, they get more information from other sources, and if they are open-minded and motivated enough, might suppress their biases sufficiently to consider this new information and inform their own judgments. Some people, likely Michael Steele, still sees himself as a conservative whose party has abandoned him. He hasn't abandoned the what he sees as the core principles and values of conservatism, he still identifies with those values. I believe that never-Trumpers who still call themselves conservatives are not likely to ever become democrat-adjacent.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
80. LET'S NOT REACT STUPID. Half this nation is conservative.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 03:53 PM
Nov 2020

That will never change. Orientation isn't a shirt to be changed, it's wired into us, including him.

All older people were born into a nation of stability and wellbeing we thought would always be built on. Today, our only hope for restoring that lost reality is for MODERATE conservatives to once again become dominant in the conservative party of the future. Liberals and conservatives have to be able to unite in solid majorities to defeat extremism.

The way we did and the way it used to be. Before we came to realize that "it" not only (unbelievably!) CAN happen here but IS happening.

All those who are not determined to form that majority are part of a very dangerous problem. The more people badmouth the entire right, the more they help feed the fires of the far right.

sandensea

(21,692 posts)
81. I suspect in Steele's case it's what in Spain they called being "more Catholic than the Pope"
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 04:06 PM
Nov 2020

During the Inquisition, anyone with any Semitic features was automatically suspect as being Muslim or Jewish - a finding tantamount to ruin or outright death.

So it became commonplace for people with such features to become adamant in their right-wing Catholic views - as a defense mechanism.

Sometimes deliberately; other times more out of an emotional need to belong (as well as fear of being outed).

And so it is with minority Republicans today:

They know they are suspect the second they walk into any room full of "master-race" type Republicans - and thus try that much harder to prove themselves.

sandensea

(21,692 posts)
96. You and I may not - but minority Republicans (typically) do, and very much
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 06:46 PM
Nov 2020

They use they GOPee for career advancement - and the GOPee uses them as props.

Beats paying locals $50 to show up at the conventions.

CTyankee

(63,914 posts)
100. I just don't think they matter that much. We have SO MUCH talent on our side, we really don't
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:04 PM
Nov 2020

need them any more to bolster our case. I believe we have brilliance in our party and I can't wait to see how much they accomplish. These turncoat republicans were useful, for sure, at one time. But now we have a new set of talent, raring to go. It's a new day.

sandensea

(21,692 posts)
103. True. They had it all: Support from Big Biz, Wall Street, Russia, Israel, the Holy Rollers, etc.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:17 PM
Nov 2020

And they still couldn't get Cheetolini re-elected.

Because in the end, competence matters - and incompetence shows.

Here's to them.

Jakes Progress

(11,123 posts)
83. Yep. Watch for Lincoln Project ads attacking Biden.
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 04:55 PM
Nov 2020

Morning Joke started his pivot on election night with lies about his time in the party of evil.

Just remember who gave us reagan, both bushes, cheney, gingrich, cruz, (gosh but the list goes on) as well as the culmination of republican machinations for the last three decades - trump.

They are evil and will cheat and lie. We have to start being smart, and we have to show solidarity.

Jakes Progress

(11,123 posts)
102. You go ahead and trust republicans
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:07 PM
Nov 2020

to do the right thing. I'll give them a month.

The ad says these are not republicans - that republicans are noble and do good things. The very point of the ad is that trumpers are not good republicans. They want their party back - the party of cheney and reagan, of nixon and bush. Remember that Steve Schmidt picked palin to be Vice President. They want softer racism, more tying corporations to national support, less police oversight.

Just because they aren't trump doesn't mean they are Democrat supporters. They want trump gone so they can get back their power. Notice no Lincoln Project ad complained about packing the courts with arch conservatives or trying to end the ACA. It was good to have them against trump, but they won't be Biden's allies.

OnDoutside

(19,982 posts)
104. You're missing the point. The aim of that ad is towards "ordinary" republicans who are still in the
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 07:21 PM
Nov 2020

GOP. Most of TLP have already left the Republican Party iirc Michael Steele is one of the only one who hasn't left, the latest was Tara Setmayer immediately after Nov 3rd, when the increase in the Republican vote became known. For Repugs like her, she was hoping for Trump to be ousted AND the GOP to get beaten out the gate. For them to get 72m votes, she said it brought it home to her that it is now the Trump Party, and with that she said she was no longer a Republican. They recognise what you can't seem to recognise, their old Republican Party ISN'T coming back.

And let's be clear here, they fully backed Biden, STILL back Biden, and only today welcomed Biden's admin picks. If you are going to accuse anyone of not being a Biden ally, for attacking his picks, you need to look a lot closer to the left of the political spectrum, in fact, it wasn't TLP who tried to take Joe down earlier this year.

Jakes Progress

(11,123 posts)
110. You give them more credit than is due.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 06:46 PM
Nov 2020

Let's just see how many change affiliations and start naming names of the republicans in office. Let's see steve scmidt begin endorsing Democratic Party platform moves. Let's see him champion environmental regulations and labor union advancement. I know he hates trump. I'm glad he does, and it helped.

But I await their epiphany that they were the ones who laid the groundwork for the orange one with their years of sucking up to corporations and welcoming bigots into their party.

We'll see in the next few months.

OnDoutside

(19,982 posts)
111. I would recommend you listen to the latest episode of the Battleground podcast with Schmidt and
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 07:20 PM
Nov 2020

David Plouffe. This episode features James Clyburn, who makes it clearer than anyone else in respect to Schmidt and TLP.

https://www.stitcher.com/show/battleground-with-david-plouffe-steve-schmidt/episode/house-majority-whip-james-eclyburn-79623543

36 minutes | Nov 23rd 2020

House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn

David and Steve are joined by House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn – the South Carolina Congressman whose endorsement of Biden, back in February, revived his campaign and signaled to the Democratic Party that it was time to stop playing the field and settle down with a dependable nominee. David and Steve ask Congressman Clyburn about divisions in Congress, how Biden should use the executive order, and the post-election autopsy gripping the Democratic Party. They also discuss Rudy Giuliani’s failing coup crusade, question why the G.O.P. still won’t take a stand for democracy, and conduct a lightning round quiz to see how far they think Trump and his cronies are willing to subvert America's democracy.


I think it was in this particular episode (might have been the previous) where Schmidt talked about the policies that he supported including HR1, Voting Right Amendment and that the US is one of the only Western Economies that doesn't have a National Healthcare system, and people are deluding themselves to think there won't be one with the coming decade.

p.s. the Lincoln project plan to be fighting against the GOP for at least the next 4-8 years, so don't expect to be proven right in 2 months !

Jakes Progress

(11,123 posts)
113. I would recommend you study the tea party movement
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 03:58 PM
Nov 2020

and the people who were responsible for bringing us this nightmare.

I have yet to hear scmidt admit his culpability or his part in making the world safe for a trump. I'm sure he is outraged at the shit that he has helped to bring about, and I'm sure he didn't mean for it to come this way.

But he espouses small government, lax regulation, lower taxes, and fiscal policies that have given us the economic inequality that we now "enjoy".

You posit that he has had a change of heart and now supports the Democratic platform. I maintain that as soon as the budget fights begin, we won't see TLP supporting Medicare for All, or an expansion of Social Security, or abolishing Citizens United, or a rollback of the trump/ryan tax cut for the wealthy.

I would welcome a TLP ad for HR1 and re-establshment of the voting rights act. Good for them if they really do that. I will consider myself wrong if they then produce ads for environmental reform, for an elimination of Citizens United, and a tax on the rich. I wouldn't mind an admission of guilt.

Just where did you see schmidt and the TLP say they will be attacking republicans for the next 8 years? I'm not saying that that wasn't said, but I would like to see it in print (still allowing my cynical self to know that years of political activism has shown me that republicans lie all the time. )

OnDoutside

(19,982 posts)
114. Blaming the Tea Party on Schmidt is a stretch, all because he was involved in the Palin VP selection
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 06:04 PM
Nov 2020

which he quickly regretted.



Former McCain adviser Steve Schmidt trashes Sarah Palin for ‘profound ignorance, brittleness and insanity'

In an interview with Tucker Carlson on Fox News late Wednesday night, the former Alaska governor lashed out at Schmidt for endorsing Joe Biden for president, suggesting he and MSNBC anchor Nicolle Wallace, who also worked on the McCain-Palin campaign, were never on “our team to begin with.”

Schmidt retweeted a video of the interview along with a savage counter-attack.

“Ok. I can’t help it,” he wrote. “It has been 12 years since @NicolleDWallace and I had to deal with her paranoia, pathological lying, profound ignorance, brittleness and insanity. We had to deal with her for 70 days.

“It has been amazing to watch her soar and prove all her critics wrong,” he added, sarcastically. “Over the last 12 years. Once she was able to rid herself of the treachery and disloyalty of her staff she soared like an Eagle.... Not.”



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/former-mccain-adviser-steve-schmidt-trashes-sarah-palin-for-profound-ignorance-brittleness-and-insanity/ar-BB18bZhI?pfr=1

I didn't say he "supports the Democratic platform", but he has outlined many of the issues that he does support the Dems on. He's probably closer to many of the centrist Dems than those on the far left of the Democratic Party are to them. As has often been said, the Democratic Party is a big tent party, and all sides need to build a bridge and get over their differences.

As regards where TLP say they'll be attacking Republicans, they've said it in many interviews, but to give one example

From the 7 minute mark, Reed Galen talks about their future and why they're not going back to the Republican Party or starting their own. If you're going to criticise them, at least do so after listening to this

https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-lincoln-project/episode/whats-next-79260297

Jakes Progress

(11,123 posts)
115. Oh, dear. Reading into what isn't' there.
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 04:49 PM
Nov 2020

I didn't say he was responsible for the Tea Party. My statement referred to the fact that his career was made by working for changes that the TP pushed, that his campaigns helped make the republican party into what it has become.

And it isn't criticism to call TLP participants former republicans; they will tell you that they were.

I'm all for people admitting their mistakes and apologizing for them. In fact, they could greatly benefit the country by being up front about the machinations of the rnc while they were there. They can name the senators that were aware of the dog-whistle, racist campaigns and chose to align themselves with bigots in order to get elected. They can talk about the rnc dirty tricks group. They know where the republican bones are buried.

Again. I am all for this group to work for economic and human equality. I will have faith that they are now telling the truth (while their careers at the rnc were based on telling lies) if they will tell us how they have come to their current epiphany. Were they always progressives who simply sold their souls for a living? Or did they come to realize that they were making money by making he world a worse place? A confession of either would go a long way to convincing us that their spots have changed.

As for the big tent. If Democrats must accept corporatism and mild racism in order to win elections, how is that different than republicans accepting the white supremacy in order to achieve a solid south.

We'll see.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
85. This is one for the "I told you so" department
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 05:19 PM
Nov 2020

Rs simply can't be trusted.

I'm glad he did this early.

Mr. Ected

(9,674 posts)
94. The whole Lincoln Project concept was traditional Republicans vs. Trump Republicans
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 06:42 PM
Nov 2020

In going against Trump, they necessarily had to side with his opposition on the Democratic side (because all the Republicans in Congress and otherwise capitulated to Trump). Now that he is out of the equation, they can go back to being themselves and attempt to regain control of the party.

We should be grateful to the extent that they helped put Trump out of business, but they were never Democrats. Never.

OnDoutside

(19,982 posts)
98. Seriously, what planet are you on ? There's no going back for them, and Trump has an even bigger
Tue Nov 24, 2020, 06:56 PM
Nov 2020

grip on the Republican Party now, than he did on Nov 2nd. 72 million Americans voted for him, despite the disgusting pig that he is. Republican Congressional toadies aren't going anywhere.

TLP's mission statement is to get rid of Trump and Trumpism. They've only started.

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