General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow often do you encounter assistant professors with JDs who go by Dr. professionally?
Link to tweet
msongs
(67,496 posts)YDogg
(6,683 posts)... but, yeah, she's a stooge.
paleotn
(18,012 posts)She's NOT a PhD. She didn't EARN the title. She stole it. At best she's Instructor Ellis, Ms. Ellis, or better yet, dumb fucking jackass.
YDogg
(6,683 posts)But *I* have only seen this in an academic setting, not that it is proper. I know at least three profs at a local college with JDs - no MD, PhD, or EdD - who use the title "Dr."
PCIntern
(25,642 posts)I have never heard of a JD being referred to as Doctor. Ever.
yardwork
(61,772 posts)Skittles
(153,298 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)BainsBane
(53,127 posts)and going by Dr. is common in academia, if they have a PhD. If they are a law professor with just a JD, then it might be odd. I'm not sure about that though, not having spent time in a law school.
ETA: I missed the tweet. Of course Trumpsters are frauds.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)The next First Lady is often referred to as
Dr. Jill Biden do I have a problem with that?
No
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)drray23
(7,638 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)Her linked in account and her Amazon author's page list only a BA and a JD.
drray23
(7,638 posts)She got a PhD in education in 2007 from the university of Delaware.
Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)I thought you were talking about Jenna Ellis in her academic setting.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Just sayin'...
drray23
(7,638 posts)greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Just being accurate here.
PCIntern
(25,642 posts)As befits her degree.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)The person I'm responding to said this, right there, in text: "She got a PhD in education in 2007 from the university of Delaware."
She did not. She earned an EdD in Education. That's all I'm saying.
PCIntern
(25,642 posts)First Lady: Oy
Second Lady: Oy yai yoy
First Lady: Oy yai yoy yai yoy
Second Lady: I thought we werent going to talk about the children.
former9thward
(32,136 posts)But only a MD should be putting Dr. in front of their name.
yardwork
(61,772 posts)I noticed it wasn't mentioned in her bio at Colorado Christian College or whatever it's called. I've never seen an academic bio that didn't mention where degrees were awarded. Weird.
Lots of sentences about the biblical law worldview, though.
FakeNoose
(32,884 posts)What kind of accreditation does "Colorado Christian College" have? Wikipedia has a listing for Colorado Christian University (not College) and it looks skeevy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Christian_University
Lots of mergings and buyouts, name changes, etc. but hey - they've got a football team.
Nothing mentioned about a law school though, accredited or not.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Ptah
(33,055 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)not Doctor.
drray23
(7,638 posts)in an official bio, the title Dr would be used. I am one of them ( Physics) and while I dont introduce myself or insist in using Dr in everyday's life a typical bio or introductions before a talk will use that.
Nevilledog
(51,281 posts)drray23
(7,638 posts)we are talking about somebody in an academic setting ( assistant professor) . That would be common there. Of course a regular practicing attorney is unlikely to do so.
Nevilledog
(51,281 posts)drray23
(7,638 posts)but if its in a bio before a talk its a given whomever writes it to introduce me will use Dr. Its standard practice in my field. Many not for law scholars ?
ProfessorGAC
(65,381 posts)And, where would i stop?
BS, MS, PhD, MS, MBA?
Would be kind of ridiculous.
And, NOBODY called me doctor!
llmart
(15,566 posts)The professors at the university occasionally use Dr. but not all of them do. At the law school none of them went by the term "Dr."
pnwmom
(109,024 posts)(In academia, most lawyers with JD's call themselves Professors, like everyone else.)
https://abovethelaw.com/2011/11/any-lawyer-who-calls-himself-doctor-like-a-ph-d-should-get-punched-in-the-mouth/
drray23
(7,638 posts)many law professors do have PhD's as well.
pnwmom
(109,024 posts)because it's a lot easier to get a PHD than a job as a professor.
drray23
(7,638 posts)my collegues who are german and are professors there are called Herr Pr. Dr. ( Physics) so they tack both titles into one.. 😁
Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)I've encountered encountered one.
Law faculty (regardless of what level - visiting, assistant, associate, full professor) don't call themselves Dr, absent a Phd in somethign else.
Even in a a non-law academic setting, I've never known anyone other than a PhD, MD or DO call themselves Dr.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)We are always referred to as "Professor."
yardwork
(61,772 posts)People with MDs and (some) people with PhDs refer to themselves as Dr., but I've never, ever seen somebody with just a JD refer to themselves as Dr.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,976 posts)Technically I suppose anyone with a J.D. degree could use "Dr." since it's a juris doctor degree. But none of my law school professors ever went by Dr., either in person or in their CVs. It seems awfully pretentious - but then, consider the source.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)I'm a dean, rather than a faculty member, and I still get called Professor all the time. About half my students call me by my first name, a quarter call me professor, and the remaining quarter call me dean. I don't recall ever being called Mr. or Ms. (or Dr.)
elleng
(131,370 posts)drray23
(7,638 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,976 posts)Lawyers who want to be called "Doctor" are rare and are generally considered to be pretentious dickwads. My law school professors were called Mr. or Ms. or Professor. Never "Doctor."
drray23
(7,638 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)It's not listed in her linked-in account or her Amazon author's page.
llmart
(15,566 posts)Not one of the professors at the law school where I worked referred to themselves as Dr.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Law professors are NEVER called "Dr." unless they have a Ph.D.
It's routine in Latin America for lawyers to be referred to as Dr.
But here? I imagine other lawyers must think she's a pretentious ass.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Anyone with a PhD can use the "Doctor" title, but often don't. In academia it might be more common in strictly academic settings such as formal communications and references. Most JD's tend to use the "esquire" title instead, although technically in an academic setting they are entitled to use Dr. It would be interesting to know exactly the context in which she decided to use the title.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)they commonly use the term doctor. In MN, rarely.
treestar
(82,383 posts)who said it was not proper for female lawyers to use "Esq." which was inherently male. Females should be Jane Lawyer, Attorney-at-law!
I usually don't even bother with either.
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)He is a lawyer...AND a surgeon. That's his schtick.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Only in Latin America.
And she ain't Latin.
marybourg
(12,648 posts)Frau Doctor and Dottora( something like that)
sandensea
(21,713 posts)I imagine that's where Latin Americans get the custom.
I can tell you that lawyers down there love being called Doctor at every possible opportunity.
Even presidents, if they happen to be lawyers, expect it in the intros (and with a little added emphasis).
El Señor Presidente de la Nación, Doctor ....
paleotn
(18,012 posts)She's at best, Instructor Ellis. More correctly, Ms. Ellis. PhD is earned with blood, sweat and tears. I know. I was here when my wife earned hers. It was a hell of a fight. She wanted to quit several times, but sucked up and and did it. But frauds like Ellis, a "Christian attorney", whatever the fuck that is, wants to steal it. These people are beyond pathetic. Trash. The absolute worst of us. After Jan 20, can we deport all of their sorry asses to Russia? Please?
rsdsharp
(9,234 posts)to refer to oneself as doctor with just a JD.
The degree is equivalent to an LL B a Bachelor of Laws Degree. Its my understanding that the LL B was phased out in the US and replaced with the JD, because holders of JDs were being paid lower salaries in nonlegal workplaces than holders of Masters or PhDs.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,976 posts)never has been, AFAIK, and maybe because the JD is the replacement for the LL.B.
rsdsharp
(9,234 posts)too new. I started law school 36 years ago.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,976 posts)A bit of a Google produced this:
Less than a year later, however, the ethics committee reversed course in light of the newly adopted ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibility. Disciplinary Rule 2-102 permitted a J.D. or LL.M. (master of law) recipient to use doctor with his or her name, the committee concluded in ABA Informal Opinion 1152 (1970).
Several states concurred with the ABAs new position, while others held to the prior rule. A Maine ethics opinion issued in 1979, for instance, advised lawyers that the title doctor is almost exclusively confined to certain health professionals and, to some extent, academics with a Ph.D. degree and clergymen, so a layperson who heard a lawyer referred to as doctor would assume that the lawyer was qualified in one of those professions.
The ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, which superseded the Model Code in 1983, dont directly address a lawyers use of doctor, nor do most legal ethics codes at the state level. As a result, guidance on the issue continues to come primarily from state ethics opinions.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Their law schools issued them new diplomas showing the JD. They have them displayed alongside their original LLB diploma.
Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)It is unethical to imply you are licensed if you aren't - so using Esq. would be a big no-no.
RicROC
(1,204 posts)Seems to me that only MD's can use the title Dr. without explanation. Others who normally are called Doctor are required by law to state which discipline in which they hold the doctorate.
For example, an Optometrist is an O.D. Doctor of Optometry, and is respectfully called Doctor. In advertising or business affairs, Dr. Such Andsuch, cannot stand by itself. It must be stated, Dr. Such Andsuch, O.D. or Optometrist. Ways to get around it would be, Dr. Such Andsuch, Family Practice of Optometry.
As long as it is clear, the doctorate is not M.D.
Same thing with dentists, podiatrists, et al.
Germany has a better method instead of all these initials: while in the USA Sidney Feinblatt, M.D. in Germany, would be Dr. med Sidney Feinblatt.
I could envision in the USA:
Dr. dent Shulman
Dr. opt Rodriguez
Dr. pod Hassan
ecstatic
(32,782 posts)Why the need to squeeze in additional titles/accolades?
Sounds like someone with serious insecurity issues!
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They are never called "Dr." in an academic or professional setting.
BlueNProud
(1,048 posts)Bio doesn't say.
yardwork
(61,772 posts)BlueNProud
(1,048 posts)Jersey Devil
(9,879 posts)I never did as a lawyer because I thought it was pretentious, but I know several who did, beginning back in the 70s when the president of the NJBA called himself "doctor" to highlight the fact that lawyers have advanced graduate degrees.
You have to understand that prior to the 60s lawyers did not receive a Juris Doctor degree. Instead they got a Bachelor of Laws degree because going back many years an undergraduate degree was not required to attend law school.
My law partner called himself "doctor" only when calling restaurants to make dinner resevervations, lol.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And any lawyer who tried to do that in front of any other lawyer would get laughed out of the room.
Jersey Devil
(9,879 posts)Maybe in your area they don't do it but it was pretty common in NJ and the NY metro area. Some lawyers felt they weren't getting enough respect for the advanced degree they had so they started using it when the law school degree changed from a Bachelor of Laws degree to Juris Doctor in the 60s. It never bothered me that they did so and can't understand why it would rankle others since many with doctorates in other fields do it routinely.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And I've spent quite a bit of time in the legal communities in New York and New Jersey - both among practicing lawyers and law professors - and I don't think I have ever encountered a single lawyer who calls themselves "Dr" unless they've earned a PhD. And I doubt ANY lawyer would use "Dr." in an academic setting - at least not at any reputable institution.
Obviously, your experience has been different - but I don't think it's typical.
Jersey Devil
(9,879 posts)As I said, I never used it myself, thought it was pretentious, and yes, few used it though enough that it should not be a surprise to see others doing it. I just don't think it is a big deal whether someone uses the title or not.
treestar
(82,383 posts)even though the degree is a "doctorate." So that's pretentious.