General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMichael Conway Why Biden should pardon Trump -- and we Democrats should want him to
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/why-biden-should-pardon-trump-we-democrats-should-want-him-ncna1247986American democracy cannot tolerate the prosecution of political opponents.
But the justification for a pardon can also be grounded in a higher purpose. The 73 million Americans who voted to re-elect Trump two weeks ago will be just as angry about a good faith federal investigation of Trump after he has left office as Democrats were angry about Trumps baseless chant to lock up his former political opponents.
Right now, even after the Trump presidency that Americans believe was divisive, polls suggest that enormous numbers of Americans still believe that we have more in common with one another than what separates us. There is an opportunity to rediscover our common ground with one another and the way forward does not involve relitigating the last four years in federal criminal court.
54 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Time expired | |
The author has a point | |
0 (0%) |
|
The author is a moron | |
54 (100%) |
|
1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
bdtrppr6
(796 posts)Bucky
(53,795 posts)I'll go ahead and read the article now. But the headline alone seems like it's either trollery or tomfoolery.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)I can only speculate as to whether the writer started the holiday drinking early.
Bucky
(53,795 posts)I did a little research on who Michael Conway is. I posted it down below. (#22)
He's not a Quisling. But he's definitely a Chamberlain.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Well played!
dweller
(23,559 posts)✌🏻
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)BainsBane
(53,001 posts)is why there are two options. One is sufficient.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)She then shouted "No Pardon! No Mercy!"
I'm guessing MSNBC is getting interesting responses.
Bucky
(53,795 posts)I think DU needs to be a safe space for unpopular opinions, even if that means allowing room for dumb ones.
dweller
(23,559 posts)✌🏻
htuttle
(23,738 posts)Whether Trump is charged is up to the Attorneys General and the DOJ.
spooky3
(34,302 posts)Hes a retired lawyer representing corporations against consumers and the IRS.
Quelle surprise, nest-ce pas?
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Go figure?
LeftInTX
(24,547 posts)Bucky
(53,795 posts)He's a Democrat. He helped prosecute the Watergate conspirators. And ever since then he's been raking in the bucks as an insider Washington lawyer.
People who grew up under Ike tend to think the modern Republican Party is more loyal to the country than to their partisan success. It's a charming anachronism.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)The NY charges are probably a clear path.
Trump has a dilemma though with Stone, Flynn, and Manafort. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it they are pardoned, they (by definition) can't incriminate themselves. So they can be compelled to testify and don't enjoy 5th amendment protection. But if they get caught lying under oath, perjury is on the table.
Bucky
(53,795 posts)Considering what Deutsche Bank probably intends to do to get their loaned money back from Trump, he might be better off going into the hoosgow
spooky3
(34,302 posts)Proud Liberal Dem
(24,355 posts)Biden may not actively pursue him but he sure doesnt have to give him a hand.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)I suspect people in government are going to come out of the f***ing WOODWORK with accounts of Mango Mussolini's illegal and immoral deeds, and Justice is going to have little choice but to act.
You know how much the NSA has probably been sitting on all this time? You think they don't have EVERY conversation he ever had on a secure server somewhere?
PJMcK
(21,916 posts)Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)Earl G would potentially have to delay certification. We would have to see if Hugo Chavez voted. Then we'd have to book Four Seasons Landscaping for the presser. It'd be a mess.
PJMcK
(21,916 posts)Yes?
Just kidding.
Bucky
(53,795 posts)OneBro
(1,159 posts)After the last 4 years, they either know what we know about Trump and his enablers and don't care, or they are so deep in the Right-Wing media's cosmic rabbit hole that they are unreachable without a 50/50 deprograming mix of LSD and electro-shock therapy.
fearnobush
(3,960 posts)Gotta be the stupidest article Ive ever read. And enough of these 73 million losers. Fuck them fuck you you fucking lost get the fuck over it.
meadowlander
(4,358 posts)AleksS
(1,665 posts)We shouldn't pursue real investigations for real crimes because it might hurt the feelings of the people who ACTUALLY DID THE FAKE INVESTGATIONS?
AM I IN CRAZYLAND??
They DID the bullshit investigations. They DID THEM! Why is THAT a reason for us NOT to do them? That article makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!!!
The author should be explaining to them why they should NOT do bullshit investigations...because they are bullshit, not explaining to us why we shouldn't pursue real investigations because we might hurt their feelings!
The author misses the fundamental difference here:
Trump, et. al. DID the crimes, therefore they have no moral standing to be offended by investigation.
Joe Biden did NOT do the crimes, and therefore DOES have moral standing to be offended by bullshit investigations.
Investigating those who did the crimes should not be dissuaded by thoughts of whose feelings will be hurt.
Bucky
(53,795 posts)
Michael has been Peer Review Rated as AV® Preeminent, the highest performance rating in Martindale-Hubbell's peer review rating system. He is a fellow of the American College of Trial Lawyers and is listed in Chambers USA: Americas Leading Lawyers for Business (2008-2014). From 1991 to 2014, he has been selected for inclusion in The Best Lawyers in America® in the field of first amendment law* and has been selected for inclusion in the Illinois Super Lawyers® lists (2005, 2007-2014). Only five percent of the lawyers in the state are named by Super Lawyers.*
For 38 years, he has focused his practice on media, commercial arbitrations, business disputes, corporate and federal tax litigation with a particular emphasis on emergency injunctive cases. More than 200 reported decisions in the federal and state court systems have involved civil cases in which he had primary litigation responsibility at the trial court or on appeal, including First Amendment, commercial, business tort, ERISA, RICO, airport environmental, and federal tax disputes
Tldr: big-business-friendly fatcat, specializes in making corporate malfeasance seem like exercising first amendment rights by Corporate-American-Citizens. Doesn't want to see Trump truly punished after all the favors he's done for corporate America
See this video of Conway being interviewed about his role in investigating Watergate. At 12:50 he describes himself as a mostly a political "moderate to conservative Democrat". Which is, of course, code for establishment big business from a very early age.
To be fair, he's arguing that prosecution Trump should be limited to state-level actions. As Mediaite summarizes:
https://www.mediaite.com/news/nbc-news-hot-take-watergate-lawyer-says-biden-should-pardon-trump-and-democrats-should-like-it/
The argument is, essentially, that a. Trump accepting a pardon would be an admission of guilt; b. Trump could still be prosecuted for state and local crimes; c. such a pardon would insulate Biden from the ugly whiff of political vendetta; and d. It would be a healing gesture that would mollify the 72 million or so people who voted for Trump despite his misconduct (or the election results).
The suggestion hasnt gone over well with blue-check Twitter.
Avoiding political vendettas is good advice, actually. But excusing an alleged criminal from all federal prosecution prior to any evidence in a trial of fact is an offense to law and order.
I would not want Biden to nominate any special prosecutor tainted by a desire to "get even with" Trump. But you have to punish criminals for their crimes, and do so in the appropriate jurisdictions. Duh.
LeftInTX
(24,547 posts)As a corporate attorney, he's done alot for big business..
He did serve on the Rules Committee at the DNC in 2016.... Does that count???
lastlib
(22,979 posts)And tRump.
Maybe pardon him after he dies in prison. MAYBE.
IsItJustMe
(7,012 posts)I don't believe that at all. Firstly, with a two party system, it's one or the other. Secondly, we end up voting for people we don't even like (I know I have). Thirdly, lots of people vote and takes who wins or looses with a grain of salt (because they don't believe that politics is going to truly change their lives or believe there is not a whole lot of difference in any of them). And lastly, my best guess is that about 20 to 30 percent of that 73 million are truly attached to dump and it will not make a bit of difference what Biden does or doesn't do because they are extremists. They live and breath Newsmax and pox news and have already boarded the crazy train.
Just my thoughts.
Vivienne235729
(3,373 posts)yonder
(9,631 posts)RainCaster
(10,677 posts)Really, words are not strong enough.
William769
(55,124 posts)Nuff said.
budkin
(6,688 posts)He belongs in prison.
ChoppinBroccoli
(3,764 posts)myohmy2
(3,118 posts)...not 'political opponents', criminals...there's a huge difference between imaginary crime and real crime...if we keep looking the other way, turning the other cheek, keep tolerating fascism, we will wake one morning to find our democracy and freedom gone...
...flirting with fascism is not the way to go...
...