"The campaign started with 'Abolish ICE' and ended with "Defund the Police..."

[brooklynite]

Charlie Cook's assessment today (private briefing call) on why the down ballot races broke for the Republicans: the "socialism" tag worked.

[jonstl08]

1. Agree

Since I heard the phrase "Defund the Police" I about had a stroke because I knew the GOP would run with this. Virtually every ad my GOP rep tied her opponent to this phrase along with socialism. Definitely why she won. Need to get rid of this phrase for good.

[DURHAM D]

2. Agree 100%. nt

[brooklynite]

3. Same with "Abolish ICE"

There will always be an Immigration and Border Protection agency; the key isn't the name, it's the leadership and corporate culture.

[melman]

12. ICE is less than 20 years old

Not something we've always had and will always have no matter what forever and always.


I'm sure you know this.

[LanternWaste]

51. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

And the mere relabeling of a department funded by billions does not deny the prior existence of a department funded by billions. "I'm sure you know this...."

Goodness gracious.

[melman]

53. "A rose by any other name is still a rose."

This may be true but it's not at all relevant.



Because ICE was formed in 2002. In other words it was a new thing and not something else renamed.


more info here

[brooklynite]

56. In 1912 when the Titanic sank....

...four Chinese citizens onboard were rescued and taken to the United States...where they were turned away.

ICE didn't exist. The policy did.

[JonLP24]

23. Democrats won the 2018 midterms on Abolish ICE

Abolish ICE is from 2018 not 2020.

[LeftInTX]

43. Really??? It was a pretty much a fringe idea that didn't get traction

[ehrnst]

44. I thought is was restoring the ACA.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/us/politics/health-care-democrats-2020-election.html


https://www.npr.org/2018/07/19/630260583/republicans-force-democrats-to-go-on-record-over-immigration-agency

[mcar]

49. Democrats won in 2018 on healthcare

[Under The Radar]

60. Nope- it 2018 was all about healthcare

[George II]

55. Interestingly "ICE" or it's predecessor, "INS", never had the reputation it has now....

....(which in some cases is unwarranted) under Democratic administrations or even reasonable republican administrations (rare, I know!)

As you point out, it's the leadership and manner in which the policies are carried out that has given it the presumed reputation that it has today.

No doubt we'll now see some examples of bad behavior posted as though they're a matter of routine.

[dalton99a]

4. "Open Borders" and "Defund the Police" are stupid labels that hurt Democrats.

Republicans wielded them very effectively

[NurseJackie]

11. It was a gift to the Republicans. Of course they're going to use it to their advantage.

[ehrnst]

46. +1000. (nt)

[Magoo48]

5. Reappropriate police funding after every officer passes strict psychological evaluations.

Let the fucking ICE evaporate.

[Under The Radar]

6. Dems suck so bad when it comes to messaging...

Defund the police was an ignorant statement that should have been corrected the moment that it was said by every democrat. But we just let it float out there while misinformation about BLM and ANTIFA were all scrambled into some sort of socialist omlet.
Ending Qualified Immunity - equal protection and accountability should have been the banner.

[frazzled]

9. Those slogans didn't come from the Democratic Party

And most Democrats did reject the term. Certainly Biden did. I know my Mayor Lori Lightfoot did. And many many others.

I don’t think Democrats have poor messaging. I just think nobody listens to them. That’s even evident here, where every a Tweet Trump puts out there, and every a Fox News utterance gets more threads and more attention than any Democratic voice.

[empedocles]

16. Most Dems, and nearly all pols up for re-election, reject the term. However,

what appears on fox et al, are some lw types using those 'bad' words.

No matter how emphatic Clyburn, et al were, those same types kept using those same 'bad' words - again and again.

[Turin_C3PO]

19. We can't control

what slogans a section of the electorate uses. Our strategy must take that fact into account and plan accordingly.

[frazzled]

22. So it's not Democrats who have the bad messaging

It’s people outside the party. So maybe more who are in our party need to go on Fox News. Mayor Pete did, and he killed it.

I’m so sick of the “Democrats suck at messaging” canard being bandied about here.

[JonLP24]

30. The Democrats that actually favor defund the police won their races

Cori Bush & Jamaal Bowman won primaries while supporting defund the police.

Biden never claimed he did neither did the Democrats who lost.

[empedocles]

32. Works in clear blue races. Not in the flip races, that we need so badly.

[JonLP24]

36. Defund the police is a local city budget issue

If one city supports it why is that a problem? Democrats with their "messaging" should make it clear it is a local issue.

[empedocles]

31. Be clear. What Clyburn was so against, was Dems who used 'Defund, etc.' terms, and

whose faces and words, show up on fox. I suspect you know who those 'some lw types' are. They do it for national publicity, name recognition for themselves.

[JonLP24]

34. Biden was advised Vilsack could cost Democrats in the Georgia runoffs

The reason why he is fired a respected civil rights hero because of a Brietbart smear.

I'm not worried about what shows up on Fox. It is propaganda.

Perhaps they support it because they support the policies. The "bad slogan" people are just looking for an excuse to not support the policy.

[Under The Radar]

58. Pete should be chairman of the Democratic Party

He does know how the game is played, and he has the ability to shut down right wing talking heads, he does need to teach all Democrats running for office how to use the talking points, because Dems still very much suck at it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

48. Dem's messaging was "We didn't say that, uwu"

[marylandblue]

10. As messaging goes, I'd say "Accountability and Social Services.'

These are traditional Democratic messages and they easily tie into many of our current problems, not just policing. If we repeated it ad nauseam Republican style, it would have been heard.

[gratuitous]

7. Still disagree

But then, it wasn't anyone else's city victimized night after night by police riots, so what would anyone care anywhere else? Those leopards will never, ever eat your faces.

[brooklynite]

8. Did "defunding the police" solve the problem?

We're going into a year with Mayor's races in almost every major City; I'm willing to bet that "Defund the Police" won't be a winning strategy for any Mayoral candidate.

[JonLP24]

24. It passed in LA

Why are you railing against a local city budget issue anyway?

[brooklynite]

33. I'm addressing why we barely held on to the House and didn't win the Senate...

[JonLP24]

38. There could be a lot of different reasons

More voters blamed Democrats than Republicans for failed stimulus negotiations according to polls. Not sure why, I blame Mcconnell for the failed stimulus negotiations.

[Under The Radar]

57. Correct. City sales taxes funds city police, not the fed gov...

Off that basis alone the statement was ridiculous.
2nd- laws without law enforcement are not worth the paper they are written on.

[maxsolomon]

13. Here we go again, DU.

Please embrace the new (old) phrase, FUCK THE POLICE!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

15. Does anyone know the year it was that Baby Boomers forgot

their hatred of the police?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

14. Can we stop punching left? Please?

Remember the "we need to win an election, so we need to go to the middle but once we do, we'll do the progressive thing." Except now it's "we needed to win an election and said what we need but anything bad that happened is the progressive's fault, so shut your mouth."

[JonLP24]

25. Yes BLM protests was a big part of encouraging me to vote for Biden

[NewJeffCT]

37. You've been on DU for 12 years

and you need BLM protests to help convince you to vote for Biden over Trump?

[Turin_C3PO]

17. Well,

we can’t control what slogans protesters take up so we’re going to have to have a work-around strategy that involves trying to not let us get defined by the GOP as supporting such actions.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. Police abolition is not a tenet of socialism, and plenty on the left embrace the carceral state.

I'm definitely down with abolishing both ICE and police, though.

[JonLP24]

20. Democrats won the 2018 midterms on a platform of Abolish ICE

Of course they backed away from it after they won but they certainly used it while the right used fear mongering about the caravan.

Defund the police is actually good policy. I prefer @prisonculture takes on defund the police over any of your posts.

Link to tweet

You're not going to stop DSA from calling themselves socialists or conservatives from calling you socialists so good luck with that one.

[brooklynite]

35. Nonsense...

We won the House in Suburban districts with moderate candidates who weren't yelling "Abolish ICE". That was coming from Democrats like AOC winning safe Blue seats from other Democrats in the cities.

[mcar]

50. You keep saying this without one drop of proof

It still is not true.

[jayfish]

21. Oh Boy.

When will we learn that it doesn't matter what nomenclature we use? The Thugs will demonize it all the same. If we said "reappropriate funding for law-enforcement" they would eventually arrive at "defund the police". Regardless of what the sentiment is they will call it what they please.

[uponit7771]

29. +1, that doesn't explain the losses of dbd polling ahead outside of MOE days before the....

.... election

If slogans were really beating them then what was their reactions to them?!?!

There's something wrong in down ballot races and"it as a slogan" sounds like an easy scapegoat

[ck4829]

39. Yep

[treestar]

26. Abolish ICE was dumb too

There are immigration laws - there are people who by law are deportable. We fight the accusation we are "open borders" and abolishing ICE essentially promotes that.

[JonLP24]

28. A majority disapprove of Trump's immigration policies

Listen I'd rather be a Democrat than a Republican right now. Trump is fracturing the party and they have far worse policies. The right wing populism scares the hell out of me. Not policies like Abolish ICE.

You all realize Trump is a wannabe dictator that hasn't conceded?

[treestar]

41. Yes I realize Dump is a wannabe dictator that hasn't conceded.

What has that to do with the price of eggs in China?

[LanternWaste]

42. It does not follow

You're arguing against a point no one (I'll repeat that just in case, "no one" ) here is making.

[uponit7771]

27. Thats not an explanation of why down ballot Dems underperformed polling outside of MOE .

.... nationwide.

If slogans etc were really hurting Dems that much why wasn't there a national reaction in the DNC to them?

No, some shit happened down ballot against Dems and a slogan or word doesn't explain it.

[ck4829]

40. This is why we need to deplatform Republicans who rant about "socialism"

“Buying stuff before a blizzard is soc...” “nope”

“Not wanting to get shot in school is soc...” nope”

[Hortensis]

45. Cook wouldn't have said socialist dissidents deliberately sabotaged

Democratic chances, but I do. We all know the names of socialists fully intelligent enough to know those terms were being used against us but promoted them publicly instead of using others. They knew that was a very possible result with razor-thin electoral margins in this era, just as they knew the same sabotage in 2016 threw the nation to Trump and the Republicans.

Revolutions must smash what exists to impose what they plan to impose next.

[JanMichael]

52. Honestly I think it was the lack of door to door (or in person) outreach. Not TV or web messaging.

Which was ethically correct during a pandemic. Liberals or the left candidates did everything remotely; no rallies. Which again is the only intelligent and responsible thing to do. However the conservative candidates (or proxies) did go door to door almost everywhere and churches kept brainwashing. And most places (states) in the US are pretty 50/50. Counties are a different animal.

That was the margin. Not scientific just a hunch. I think we put too much belief in the TV and interwebs. Most races in non-70% one way counties (Left or Right) are not won electronically. People are weird. they like talking to other people face to face. Which now is a bad idea...

The door to door outreach and church/rally worked on the margins.

[George II]

54. Both were HORRIBLE slogans and have cost us votes and seats in Congress.

[cwydro]

59. Absolutely.

Some here will say otherwise, but it’s clear that was a lousy slogan that hurt us badly.