I had a discussion with someone today

[malaise]

I challenged him on when we can call someone a racist. I cited several examples of Killa Con's racism. The person said that I don't know what is in his heart. When I told the person that he was being irrational he said you libs always call people irrational when they don't agree with you. I then spent several minutes defining the word rational and presented several more examples of KK's racism.

Then it hit me - they want to redefine the meaning of words - they aren't even interested in the notion of reason and what defines knowledge. We can present all the evidence based facts we want. They don't care.
The worst part is that this person has an Ivy league education. Something is seriously wrong.

[TheBlackAdder]

1. I bet the guy can't differentiate between what conservativism and liberalism is.

.

Happy New Year, malaise.

.

[malaise]

4. It was scary

for real

Happy New you to you and yours TheBlackAdder

[DanieRains]

2. Never Give An Inch

When you discuss reality with the inhabitants of crazytown.

[malaise]

6. He told me nothing I said woul change his views

[Karadeniz]

9. That's a radical conservative mindset you encountered. They won't change their views, instead

Use their energy in finding ways to justify their comfort zone.

[malaise]

33. We shouldn't allow them to change agreed concepts

The Assault on Reason is scary.

[DanieRains]

117. I Like To Ask The Questions The Can't Answer

How many times would Jesus vote to repeal Obamacare?

How is it someone can support a person who has told 23,000 documented lies?

Now answer my question.

That is my top 2.

You won't rip them from their cult, but you might make them feel uneasy. That's about all you can expect.

[malaise]

123. It's sad

There is no society without some sense of reason

[aggiesal]

62. A "friend" of mine said the same thing ...

haven't spoken with her, in over 3 months.

I will not deal with racists in my life, no matter if they're family or close friends.

[SharonAnn]

58. If their actions are racist, who cares what is in their heart.

[plimsoll]

133. That is the final and only point.

Their actions speak louder than words.

[smb]

114. It's All Just Point/Counterpoint With Them, Regardless Of Observable Reality

[iemitsu]

3. Ivy League educations aren't worth what they cost.

[unblock]

30. It's more a matter of you get out of it what you put in.

If you study hard and bring an open mind, those schools are phenomenal for learning.

But all a school can do is give you opportunities. It's up to the student to make the most of them.

Sadly, the ivies are hardly immune from the typical college student's desire to party and drink and try to coast through the four years....

The trust fund babies are often the worst offenders. Their money and connections and that Ivy League diploma is all they need. They're not particularly interested in learning, other than information they can quickly profit from....

[The Wizard]

48. Prestigious universities

are where the wealthy elites send their progeny for networking purposes. An education can be had anywhere if you're willing to work for it.

[soldierant]

52. I grew up in public schools.

My mother, in teaching me work ethic, taught me to consider my schooling my jiob, as she considered her employment her job, as a commitment. I think for K-12 that's excellent advice.

But in college, I found it liberating to realize that I was now the employer, and my profs were mu employees. Any class I moissed, any assignment I blew off, was simply throwing away money.

[unblock]

72. Interesting way of looking at it

I certainly agree that the people who get the most out of college are the ones who fully appreciate how much it costs and how it's only four short years and you usually only get one crack at it.

Most of these people were on work/study. Those who didn't have their parents giving them a free ride, those who had to work for it, are the ones who take it seriously and get the most out of it. They realize they're paying for it so they don't let it go to waste.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

115. The students I saw working the hardest were the Vietnam vets.

I guess there's something about being shot at that tends to focus your attention on what really matters.

[malaise]

83. Fabulous post

Great mom
Happy New Year

[soldierant]

111. Wow - that is praise from Sir Hubert

Happy New Year to you too!

[iemitsu]

64. What you say is correct.

One can get a great education at a more affordable State School if one wants. Or at the library.

[unblock]

73. That is certainly true, but it takes more effort at a big state university.

The big state universities make it very easy to get lost in the shuffle and to coast through or drop out. They all have great professors but you have to look for them. They have very informative courses but they also have a lot of fluff. The ivies have their duds as well, of course, just not as many.

I think it's MIT that has all their courses online for free (not an ivy, but certainly a prestigious university). But it's so much easier to learn when you're in an environment that more of less forces you to attend classes and study for tests and so on.

Still, effort matters. I was always amazed how many seniors took only two courses in their last semester, as if they were semi-retired. I took six! Had to get my money's worth!

[iemitsu]

74. Again, what you say is true but it is still up to

each student.
The smartest professor can't inspire a dullard and a anyone or anything can inspire someone who is interested in finding answers.
Some environments make it easier to learn but ultimately one's education is a personal responsibility.

[unblock]

75. Agreed. You can lead a horse to water...

[Beringia]

92. The best art teacher I had was at San Francisco State

I was a biology major but took art classes, and the Entomology professor at San Diego State said don't go to San Francisco State, it is a Mickey Mouse school. So you're right, a not so great school can have individual outstanding teachers.

[unblock]

98. And the worst teacher I've ever had was my art teacher at Princeton

Useless and arrogant. Lectures were completely redundant with the reading. The course was little more than memorization.

I spoke to him after the course and all he could do was rant about engineering students taking his course hoping it was going to be easy. I took as many courses outside engineering as I could and wanted my money's worth. But just running through famous works without analysis and organization and without tying them to eras of world history was such a waste.

The whole course was like flipping through a catalog.

[Beringia]

99. This is off topic, but I was listening to the Richard Diebenkorn interview

With Archives of American Art and he was saying how he had a job teaching in the beginning at Univ of Illinois and they required the architect students to take an art course and he would end up with many of them. And he said some of them showed leanings toward being real artists, so he encouraged them in that direction, and then they were judged by a team who ran the program for the architects and they would give the students he had encouraged in their artistic pursuits, Ds. And Diebenkorn felt bad about that.

I remember a wonderful calculus teacher I had, that taught very much in a creative, use your own mind kind of way and the students who needed A's (such as pre-med) really didn't like her class, because they had no way to guarantee getting an A.

p 36 in the PDF

https://www.aaa.si.edu/download_pdf_transcript/ajax?record_id=edanmdm-AAADCD_oh_216520


https://www.aaa.si.edu/collections/interviews/oral-history-interview-richard-diebenkorn-11813#overview

[Newest Reality]

5. That is not only a good observation, but dangerous ground to tread upon..

[malaise]

13. Happy New Year

Why is it dangerous ground to tread on?

[Newest Reality]

19. Oh, sorry...

When certain factions try to take over the narrative by redefining terms.

That can only go so far and then it takes a drastic turn, so thanks for that effort.

Happy New Year malaise!

[smirkymonkey]

7. It's called gaslighting.

He is just trying to f**k with your mind, malaise. Do yourself a favor and stay far away from this person in the future if you can. At least avoid trying to have a rational discussion with him. He will always try to make you seem like the irrational one, even when he is 100% in the wrong.

BTW, Happy New Year!

[malaise]

10. No I don't think he was effing with my mind

He really didn't want to be called irrational for throwing reason through the window.


Happy New Year to you and yours

[Cosmocat]

59. Right

They have been brainwashed with right wing propoganda for do long they genuinely dont know reality, facts or reason, and the more wrong they are the more sure they become of how right they are.

[malaise]

77. Sure looked that way to me

Happy New Year :hi

[Karadeniz]

8. Intelligence and morality don't always come in the same package. By the way, we may not know

Precisely what's in someone's heart, but is that important? If a person's words and behavior promote a cultural aspect that is not only illegal but also harmful to a smooth, happy society, that's enough to make that person objectionable. To me.

[malaise]

11. I don't care what's in Killa Kon's heart

What I know is that he is a racist once empirical evidence is presented and anyone who values reason will come to the same conclusion.

The assault on reason is palpable.

[Karadeniz]

15. Exactly!!!

[LakeArenal]

27. Think what should be his ❤️, is a sack of bile.

🇺🇸🤜🏻2021🤛🏻🇺🇸

[Baitball Blogger]

12. This is a dilemma caused by perspective.

For example, if you look up the word "Anglo" in the dictionary, you'll only grow more confused. To the Irish, it means one things. To White Americans, another. And to Latin Americans, something completely different. So, it comes down to this: we have to stand strong and defend our perspective. It exists, because we exist. And our perspective defines how we view the world.

[malaise]

20. Can't disagree with you re words like Anglo but I thought we all had

a shared understanding of concepts like reason, empirical evidence and knowledge.

Happy New Year Baitball Blogger

[Baitball Blogger]

22. Happy New Years to you, malaise.

[ismnotwasm]

14. It is the human condition

People have always been malleable, crowds turned to mobs have always been scary. I often think the paths of altruistic development must have been stunted, because as early humans, we certainly worked together.

It’s almost a cyberpunk world, we are just a few decades from it. I think of the book “Snowcrash” a lot. It’s dated, sure, but it painted a bleak picture of individualism.

[malaise]

21. This is profound

I often think the paths of altruistic development must have been stunted, because as early humans, we certainly worked together.

Looks like everyone wants her/his own definition of common words and concepts.
I haven't read that book.

I get so angry when I hear people calling Democrats socialists - there are very few socialists in the Democratic Party and M$Greedia does nothing to correct the disinformation or at least present an objective definition of socialism.
Happy New Year ismnotwasm

[SheltieLover]

16. Of course they want to redefine words to suit their purposes

Just as they redefine confederate generals ae heroes. They were traitors!

Just as they redefined "elitists" in 2016.

All in their own sick minds, of course.

So they voted in a purported tv star billionaire, rather than
Hillary because she is well educated, intelligent & accomplished, hence an "elitist."

They will never "get it."

Happy New Year, Malaise!

[malaise]

25. Same to you SheltieLover

and yes they can't turn traitors into heroes.

[SheltieLover]

35. Right!

I received a call just after election from former friend in SC bitching that some friend who had just moved to SC was not allowed to vote, as if it were my fault. (?)

I ended up just hanging up. I never ever enable pathology, I do not accept pathological projections, & I make a lousy "victim."

So I receive a big, long, presumably drunken, text storm to the effect that this person's (slave-owning!) Ancestors "lost blood to fight for this country."

Then I was informed by the drunk that I am "just a peasant."

Hu?

I think these rednecks really believe this shit!

Btw, I'm from Chicago. No confederate nonsense here.

Hard to follow the "logic."



PS: I'd much rather be a "peasant" than a traitor any day!

[RockRaven]

17. That whole "what's in his heart" is bullshit. Diversionary bullshit. What matters is what people DO.

What's in someone's heart, or mind, or unvoiced thoughts, or whatever you want to call it, is bullshit because it is not verifiable. Utterly impossible to confirm or refute. Nobody has acces to others' internal monologue. And, btw, it does not itself act on any person or object and as such has no effect on the world whatsoever. "What's in his heart" is content free, it is vapor, is is a phantasm, it is an illusion. Appealing to this ghostly idea is an attempt to create an irrefutable get-out-of-jail card.

What people should be judged by are their words and deeds. Because those are observable, recordable, and they affect people and objects in the world. Cause and effect, playing out right before our eyes every day.

And by that metric Donald Trump is an overtly enthusiastically racist piece of humanoid trash.

[malaise]

23. Precisely

What people should be judged by are their words and deeds. Because those are observable, recordable, and they affect people and objects in the world. Cause and effect, playing out right before our eyes every day.

Happy New Year RockRaven

[RockRaven]

28. Happy New Year to you as well!

[reACTIONary]

61. +100 nt

[unblock]

36. Intent is overemphasized in America. This is probably due to puritanical heritage

Or maybe Christianity in general.

Big emphasis on what's in your heart, what you meant to do, over what you actually did.

Don't get me wrong; intent is often important. Big difference between intentional murder and an accidental that results in death. But often it doesn't matter. If your in an abusive relationship, it hardly matters if the abuser is deliberately cruel or just can't help himself. Either way, just get out.

It doesn't much matter *why* anti-maskers engage in behavior that spreads a lethal disease. It matters that they do.

[JDC]

47. It is total bullshit. you are so right.

[unblock]

18. The ontological war is a key component of the so-called cultural war

Their hierarchical view of society includes not only whites over blacks, men over women, etc., but also the notion that those higher up in the hierarchy dictate the facts and the truth.

It's no small coincidence that this is the religious fundamentalist's ontology as well. The truth is given from authority figures and those lower down in the hierarchy are expected to show their loyalty by accepting it without question.

There's no room for skepticism or inquiry or science or objective reality. If Donnie had said, nearly a year ago, "if any terrorists come here and refuse to wear masks, we'll glass their country," the very same magats who now refuse to wear a mask in the name of freedom would not only be wearing masks but they'd be itching to shoot anyone who didn't.

Words mean whatever their authority figures tell them it means. That's how whatever democrats propose, it's "socialism". That's how they believe there was "election fraud" because Donnie says a vote for Biden is fraud.

[malaise]

24. THIS

Words mean whatever their authority figures tell them it means.
You nailed it

happy New Year Unblock

[unblock]

46. And that's why nothing you say can change their minds

We lack the authority, in their worldview, to question facts or the truth as told to them.

Hny, malaise!

[Eko]

26. Here is Hitler with love in his heart for his Dogs.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YmQeCo4Qbpk/T_IJpsd9kfI/AAAAAAAAF00/XG8512ZOcR0/s1600/Hitler+and+Blondie.jpg
Ask that person what the fuck that changed in the end? When someone tells me that I dont know what is in someones heart I know they are full of shit and just quit talking to them period.

[malaise]

29. I rarely engage in this sort of BS

but I'm actually glad I did. It left me in a state of stunned incredulity.
Billions are needed for remedial education. This is madness

Happy New Year Eko

[Eko]

31. Madness it is.

Happy New Year to you also Malaise!

[SheltieLover]

40. Debriefing from the cult is needed

Otherwise they are 100% uneducable. Waste of oxygen at the least.

[stillcool]

32. I don't know what to think anymore...

so many people are heavily invested in their own view of reality. They can not bear to look out the window and see an uncomfortable truth that may require to them to think. Questioning life, what one believes not what one was taught, has no upside if it requires you to go against the tide. Can't get off the merry-go-round, so just hold on tight, and don't look to hard. Life....but anyway...Happy New Year!

[niyad]

37. Plato's cave comes to mind.

[malaise]

39. Their own view of reality is correct -

Happy New Year to you as well Stillcool

[niyad]

34. Ivy League education? Was he a legacy admission, like bush the lesser?

Wishing you a happier, safer, saner new year.

[malaise]

41. No

Earned his way

[malaise]

43. Good point - I had an argument with a sibling

who insists she's not a senior citizen. She's in her 70s - of course she is a senior citizen by every definition.
Happy New Year Bloom

[42bambi]

42. Their amygdala hasn't evolved to the level of critical thinking; IMHO - Rush and Fox took

advantage of those who are subjected to feeling versus thinking, overpowering them with a simple minded lifestyle. There are millions of them still crawling instead of walking.

[modrepub]

44. Their BS-meter Has Been Short Circuited

Most normal folks can tell when someone is blowing sunshine up their arse. They see the flaw in the logic. There's even a way to test for it using math/statistics.

What you're confronting is someone who has had their BS-meter short circuited. In stead of trying to find a fault in the logic they've been trained to find the fault in the person. You can't possibly be right because you're a democrat/liberal. They can then discard anything you say.

[NotANeocon]

45. Don't bother arguing with people like this -

- they'll bring you down to their level and defeat you with experience.

You just can't reason with somebody who did not reach their conclusion through reasoning.

[paleotn]

49. Cultists...

Logic and reason mean nothing to them. They believe only what they want to believe. They can't be reasoned with only overwhelmed with turnout. That's what we did in November.

[Joinfortmill]

50. They don't have the courage to admit

What they really are.

[Demonaut]

51. i have found reasoning with the educated is very similar to to reasoning with the uneducated

reason has lost them both

[Hoyt]

53. Like Bill Maher said, "There are two things Republicans can't stand,

Being called a “racist,” and . . . . . Black people.”

[BigBearJohn]

66. OMG laughed for 5 minutes. Truth hurts

[malaise]

78. Nailed it

Happy New Year Hoyt

[Renew Deal]

54. The problem is that they probably are racists and don't want you to notice it.

They don't want to be held to the same standard.

[relayerbob]

55. That's what cults do

[iluvtennis]

56. The person may have an Ivy league in education, but the cultist

in them overrides critical thinking.

[malaise]

79. The absence of critical thinking is a major problem but they could start with the meaning of

uncomplicated words like rational. If someone does racists things simple deduction should make others draw a rational conclusion.
Happy New Year iluvtennis

[iluvtennis]

101. + agree.

Happy New Year malaise!!

[BasicallyComplicated]

57. You had the wrong conversation.

This old video explains the best how to "have a conversation about race".

[malaise]

81. Perfect

Happy New Year BasicallyComplicated - love your user name

[mtnsnake]

60. AFAIC, the "educated" cultists are by far the worst ones to try and reason with and

by far the most dangerous because of the way they spread the propaganda around like a wild fire. At least the ones I've stumbled into are like that. Sounds like you ran into one like that as well.

[TexasBushwhacker]

63. You don't know what's in his heart?

Now I've known plenty of people who play a good game if being non-racists, but now and then something will slip. They're usually what I call Racist Butts, as in "I'm not a racist but...".

But there's little that's covert about Trump's racism. As for what's in his heart, why would someone who's NOT a racist categorize every undocumented person crossing our southern border as drug dealers and rapists? How would someone be with a good heart make fun of a disabled person?

[BigBearJohn]

65. An educated idiot is still an idiot

[malaise]

80. Indeed

Happy New Year BigBearJohn

[BigBearJohn]

95. Same to you my friend, and many more!!

[dlk]

67. They live in a fact-free world

If the facts don't suite their agenda, they just create their own "facts" that do. It's no understatement to say there is an epidemic of untreated mental illness in the United States.

[PatrickforO]

68. Racism is pretty insidious. I was raised white suburban in the sixties and seventies.

I know my parents (rest their souls, for they are both long dead), as well as the neighbors of my youth, would never have even thought they were racist. In fact they would have denied it vehemently.

Yet, my parents often told me that other people 'weren't as good as us.' My mother told me to 'stick with my own kind.' When MLK was assassinated by that jerk, all the white men in my neighborhood made barricades in anticipation of 'colored riots.' Nothing happened, but they made the barricades.

My dad, in fact, moved us out to the suburbs when Denver started busing kids, because he said he would die before he let me be bused.

Now, the effect this had was to isolate me, and other kids in my neighborhood, so we never really interacted with any people of color. I did not have any meaningful interaction with any non-white people until I was in college.

That is what racism looks like - one of its faces.

Essentially, I think, it is isolation from those who are different culturally, or by virtue of skin color, coupled with fear of 'other' based on ignorance - if you are isolated from 'other,' then it is easy to begin to fear them, followed quickly by hatred.

But you know, I just had an argument with a guy on the Hill that blamed legislation reforming lending practices for the housing bubble that created the Great Recession back in '08. Seriously. The guy actually blamed 'unqualified single mothers and blacks' making $30K and getting loans for $300,000 homes. Now, that is just bullshit. You know it and so do I, but this guy actually believed it to the extent he forwarded the argument in the face of my contention it was the repeal of Glass-Steagall that was the primary causal factor.

Trump is just a symptom. I know I am not the first to say this, but we got Trump because the racists absolutely could not stand that Obama was president, and was actually a good president. They just could not stand it. So we had birthers. Guys that called out, "Liar!" during State of the Union speeches, Congress members saying they could barely stand to be 'in the same room' with Obama, horrible criticisms of Michelle. It makes me sick.

It makes a lot of people sick. I don't know how to fix it. I think we can re-legislate - pass a new Voting Rights Act. We can retrain and reculture, demilitarize police departments. And we can work to make college more affordable and accessible. But in the end, we are going to have to implement educational policies like Germany did, making every kid learn what Germany did in the Nazi era, and have strict laws against white supremacy. Then, it will take a generation, but perhaps racism can be defeated.

[malaise]

82. I get what you're saying but unless I know that your parents prevented others

from achieving what was available for white kids, I'd call them prejudiced. You see they moved you to keep you away from bussing, but they did not deny the African-American kids the right to be bused.
Racism is denying others their right to equality.

Happy New Year PatrickforO

[PatrickforO]

96. I never thought of it that way. Thanks.

Happy New Year to you too!

[demigoddess]

69. some people like to identify as an underdog. That way, anything they do is justified.

redefining words is leading into that! Democrats become socialists or communists etc. Voters become cheats. And everyone you hate is out to get you. That makes you the poor victim. and then you can do anything you want.

[live love laugh]

70. They don't care about words ... or anyone or anything but themselves. nt

[DFW]

71. Republicanese

Go to a Dictionary if the English language and look up the most common definition of „liberal“ and „conservative“ and then ask any Republican what they think those words mean.

[Mopar151]

76. Education, for many, is a painful experience.

Never to be repeated. They all got Ph.D`s in in rectal engineering, pulling numbers out of their lyin' asses!!!

[patricia92243]

84. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

[malaise]

124. I like that

Happy New Year

[moondust]

85. Ivy League "educated":

[malaise]

86. That asshole in the first pic didn't even sit his own SATs

Great reality check
Happy New Year Moondust

[moondust]

89. Kinda disturbing.

Methinks Ivy League standards may have been compromised somewhat over the years. Maybe a little too much focus on the endowment or something.

And a Happy New Year to you, malaise!

[DENVERPOPS]

112. LOL

I think the Ivy League Schools need to examine their curriculum if what they are teaching turns out individuals like these....LOL

[moondust]

121. When the head of the class

is a con man with no respect for the truth or democracy or science or the law beyond his ability to weaponize it, it's time for an overhaul.

[KitSileya]

87. Intent ("what is in his heart") is irrelevant

If someone steps on your foot, it doesn't matter whether they intended to hurt you or not, they are hurting you, and if they start arguing about how they didn't mean to hurt you, all the while keeping their boot on your foot, instead of immediately removing their foo and apologizing for the hurt they caused you, they are a bad person. Period. So you know that the person you were arguing with is a bad person, because they refuse to acknowledge the hurt of the actions, but would rather discuss the intent behind them, even when it is a pattern, and not a one-time mistake. The Jerk-in-Chief is stepping on so many feet, grinding his boots down on their toes, and he would rather discuss is he really intended to hurt them?

This is not something new, because this is par for the course in discussions with people of privilege. The person you were talking to is a man - check. Was he white? Another check. He has an Ivy League education - so middle class or higher. Check. People of privilege - cis straight white men, mainly - have never been too concerned with facts, and their education hasn't been meant to teach them to discern them, but rather they have been taught a curriculum that reinforces their 'superiority' over subaltern groups. Something is indeed seriously wrong, but that is not something new. What is new is that minorities are fighting back, and people with privilege are showing that they are indeed willing to burn the house down rather than share it. They are willing to kill indiscriminately if it reinstates their privileges and positions. Those with privilege are always willing to kill those who threaten our privilege - that is why white men and women voted for Trump.

[malaise]

90. Great post

This is not something new, because this is par for the course in discussions with people of privilege. The person you were talking to is a man - check. Was he white? Another check. He has an Ivy League education - so middle class or higher. Check. People of privilege - cis straight white men, mainly - have never been too concerned with facts, and their education hasn't been meant to teach them to discern them, but rather they have been taught a curriculum that reinforces their 'superiority' over subaltern groups. Something is indeed seriously wrong, but that is not something new. What is new is that minorities are fighting back, and people with privilege are showing that they are indeed willing to burn the house down rather than share it. They are willing to kill indiscriminately if it reinstates their privileges and positions. Those with privilege are always willing to kill those who threaten our privilege - that is why white men and women voted for Trump.

Happy New Year KitSileya

[KitSileya]

113. Happy New Year to you too, malaise

2021 can only be better than 2020, at least on my part. Last year started with caring for my dying sister, and we just managed to hold her funeral with not too many restrictions before we went into lockdown in March. It never got better from that. The only good thing is that none in my family have gotten covid (we're in Norway, most of us, and those who are in the US are in a Blue state).

As for my post, as a middle-aged white woman (where did the years go - I was in my 20s when I started posting on DU) I learned a thing or two from brilliant members of the African American Group, most of whom where chased from DU because they refused to support a certain Presidential candidate who never managed to get the support of the base of the Democratic Party. I follow many of them on twitter, these days, and am still learning a lot from them. Vote like Black women is the best advice ever given on Al Gore's internet, and the second is to follow and read what Black women write as well.

[panader0]

88. One of the biggest casualties of the trump years has been truth.

from Kelly Conway's "alternative facts" to trump's constant use of "fake news",
to the insistence of "deep state" being hidden behind every rock, the truth has been
seriously wounded. Like redefining words, people now believe almost anything.
I cite Sidney Powell and Lin Wood as examples. To have to try and convince some people
that day is day and night is night is crazy. Facts and truth are due for a rebound.

[malaise]

91. It started with Spicer and the inauguration crowd size

It's not what you see it's what we tell you - that was the standard for their alternative facts.

[Beringia]

93. I think I would be hard pressed to find any example of a person

I have ever known, that couldn't be called a hypocrite in some way or other. If you get down to personal relationships, it becomes a quagmire.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

94. I don't waste my time arguing with them.

I already know that the only thing we can do is unite in mass numbers, like we did to elect Joe and Kamala, and organize, recruit everyone we can to increase our numbers, and vote to prevent people who are out of touch with reality from having any power over us.

They are an immediate threat, and a clear and present danger, to democracy, our country, and all life on the planet, and they have to be quarantined from power.

End of story.

[Wounded Bear]

97. Control the language, control the dialogue, control the people...

[murielm99]

100. They have gotten away with redefining words for quite some time.

Lakoff showed us this with "Don't Think of an Elephant." Limbaugh has gotten away with it for years. When I read an opinion piece in the New York Times that used the word "feminazi," I was furious. I emailed the writer. He shot back that the word was now a part of accepted discourse. Like hell it is.

We need to refuse their reframing and redefining of words AND ideas.

I am a liberal. I don't call myself a progressive, because I think many people have their own definition of progressive. Also, I think many people use the word progressive because the word liberal has been tarred and feathered, made to look ridiculous. I will stick with being a proud liberal, as defined by JFK:

"But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us on our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I am proud to say I am a "Liberal."

We need to pin them down and ask them what they mean. Maybe we will have to cut many of them out of our lives. We will most certainly have to be sure we outvote them.

[malaise]

103. Well Democrats have allowed them to rename the party

so clearly they have been emboldened.
Happy New Year Murielm99

[Roy Rolling]

102. So True

Control over the language is essential to the propaganda effort.

It’s how political salespeople turned “liberal” into a four-letter word. Or “profit-making corporation” into an altruistic charity.

We need to repurpose the word “conservative” to “pessimist”. As in, “pessimists can’t strangle the economy back to prosperity”.

[MadLinguist]

104. Orwell "animal farm" and "1984" both deal with this aspect of totalarianism

In a futile attempt to control reality, the inevitable strategy of the authoritarian mindset is to distort the language we use to describe reality. Any and every instrument will be used to try to control the narrative

[Kid Berwyn]

110. Precisely.

The Christmas Eve Confessions of Chuck Todd

That disinformation was going to overtake Republican politics was discoverable years before he says he discovered it.

Jay Rosen
Dec. 26, 2019

Excerpt...

It’s not that he was naive. He did not care to listen. I am going to use my own writing to show what I mean, but there are many others who could be quoted in similar fashion. On January 22, 2017, two days after Trump was inaugurated, I wrote about Sean Spicer’s crowd size spectacular. There are several audiences for it, I said. One of course was the press. For them the message was…

We are not bound by what you call facts. We have our own, and we will proceed to put them out regardless of what the evidence says. It’s not a problem for us if you stagger from the room in disbelief. We’re not trying to “win the news cycle,” or win you over. We’re trying to demonstrate independence from and power over you people. This room is not just for briefings, announcements and Q & A. It’s also a theater of resentment in which you play a crucial part. Our constituency hates your guts; this is the place where we commune with them around that fact. See you tomorrow, guys!

Another message went to core supporters:

To the core Trump constituency — and an audience primed for this over years of acrid ‘liberal media’ critique — two things were said. “We’re going to rough these people up.” (Because we know how long you have waited for that.) But also, and in return, you have to accept our “alternative facts” even if your own eyes tell you otherwise. This too is a stark message. The epistemological “price” for being a solider in Trump’s army is high. You have to swallow, repeat and defend things that simply don’t check out.

https://pressthink.org/2019/12/the-christmas-eve-confessions-of-chuck-todd/

[AllaN01Bear]

105. they have never cared for facts .

ive had profs from college this dumb.

this is going to be used in the next 30 days for some posts about trump,
ive even had one of those at one time who claimed to be a " nuke engineer for the airforce who said it was ok to steal from the us govt.

[treestar]

106. Like "socialist"

Once some people leave college, they stop thinking. They only know their profession.

[ancianita]

107. He and his ilk live in Wonderland, where Humpty Dumpty said to Alice, "The words mean

what I want them to mean when I say them."

“The question is, ” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty. “which is to be master—that’s all.”

Your someone doesn't care about honesty, agreement or acceptance -- least of all, win-win communication.
He believes what Limbaugh once wrote an article about 35 Undeniable Truths -- that "words mean things."

But words also DO things.
If your someone were honest about the idea that we are more what we say and do than what we believe ourselves to be, they'd know what you meant by 'irrational.'
Regardless, now YOU know that he projects his same "master of words" attitude onto liberals, as if they're not rational, either. Pretty Trumpy, isn't he. Where every discussion is about win-lose, not win-win.

Most of us rightly think that no matter what words are used, as long as the ideas conveyed by the individuals that use those words are understood by the individuals that receive them, then communication takes place and they have understanding (win-win). Doesn't mean they have agreement or acceptance, but they're understood and there's communication.
If one cares to use the same words their audience uses, they tend to be understood more easily, even if they don't accept or agree on the topic.

Rational or not, your Ivy league someone intends to be the Humpty Dumpty master of words he says, and so fails to communicate. It's a feature of narcissism. And a narcissist doesn't care if s/he communicates. Which breaks Communication Rule #1 I used to teach in my English classes.

You won't change him.

Glad to read your post, though.

[curthayden]

108. Good job

Keep up the good work!

[Maru Kitteh]

109. Did you ask him what the functional difference is between

someone who displays and promotes racism and a racist? If someone promotes worship of Jesus Christ, does that not make them a Christian?

[malaise]

127. No there was no such discussion

I'm still trying to process how anyone who has had a decent education has a problem with simple words like rational. I mean good effin' grief they abandoned reason and/or logic? I can't communicate with people who don't even speak my fucking language

Happy New Year Maru Kitteh

[Maru Kitteh]

135. Happy New Year, dear Malaise. Who knew we

inhabited the world with so many malfunctioning robots?

[sdfernando]

116. This person is likely racist

they cannot call out tangeranus' racism because if forces them to face their own.

[aikoaiko]

118. I didn't see Republicans becoming philosophical social constructionists either.

But here we are.

[pat_k]

119. We must cultivate a more truthful -- and useful -- understanding.

Ibram X. Kendi defines what it means to be an antiracist (and a definition of racist)

In this extract from his 2019 book How To Be an Antiracist, historian Ibram X. Kendi breaks down exactly what the term means – and why clear language is a vital first step in the battle against prejudice.

RACIST: One who is supporting a racist policy through their actions or inaction or expressing a racist idea.

ANTIRACIST: One who is supporting an antiracist policy through their actions or expressing an antiracist idea.

Definitions anchor us in principles. This is not a light point: If we don’t do the basic work of defining the kind of people we want to be in language that is stable and consistent, we can’t work toward stable, consistent goals. Some of my most consequential steps toward being an antiracist have been the moments when I arrived at basic definitions. To be an antiracist is to set lucid definitions of racism/antiracism, racist/antiracist policies, racist/anti-racist ideas, racist/antiracist people. To be a racist is to constantly redefine racist in a way that exonerates one’s changing policies, ideas, and personhood.

So let’s set some definitions. What is racism? Racism is a marriage of racist policies and racist ideas that produces and normalizes racial inequities. Okay, so what are racist policies and ideas? We have to define them separately to understand why they are married and why they interact so well together. In fact, let’s take one step back and consider the definition of another important phrase: racial inequity.

Racial inequity is when two or more racial groups are not standing on approximately equal footing. Here’s an example of racial inequity: 71 percent of White families lived in owner-occupied homes in 2014, compared to 45 percent of Latinx families and 41 percent of Black families. Racial equity is when two or more racial groups are standing on a relatively equal footing. An example of racial equity would be if there were relatively equitable percentages of all three racial groups living in owner-occupied homes in the forties, seventies, or, better, nineties.

A racist policy is any measure that produces or sustains racial inequity between racial groups. An antiracist policy is any measure that produces or sustains racial equity between racial groups. By policy, I mean written and unwritten laws, rules, procedures, processes, regulations, and guidelines that govern people. There is no such thing as a nonracist or race-neutral policy. Every policy in every institution in every community in every nation is producing or sustaining either racial inequity or equity between racial groups.

--------------------------------
The people who actively spout white supremist clap trap and hateful racial epithets aren't the only "racists" in this country.

We have been raised in a racist society maintained by racist policies. We all have been inculcated with racist beliefs. For example, a notion that characteristics of a group are responsible for the inequality we see. The focus is on "fixing" the members of the group, rather then implementing policy that produces and sustains equality among racial groups.

These sorts of ideas are deeply rooted in people across the political spectrum -- and across ethnic groups. In the introduction to his book, Ibram relates a speech he gave in an MLK competition -- one filled with racist ideas. ("I remember the MLK competition so fondly. But when I recall the racist speech I gave, I flush with shame." Link to excerpt here.)

When we recognize that everyone harbors biased or racist views of some sort, we realize we don't need to feel ashamed or guilty when we uncover them in ourselves. On the contrary, when you start from the understanding that we all have biases, your job is just to find them. Whatever you discover, you should feel good that you made the effort, because identifying these notions is the first step in stamping them out. The effort allows you to take a more realistic look at our world and how racist, sexist, ageist and other attitudes and policies are maintained -- even by the most well-meaning people. And when you see more clearly, you can be part of the solution.

As long as we comfort ourselves with the notion that we are free of racism, we will remain part of the problem.

I highly recommend Ibram's book.

Also highly recommended,
White Fragility:
Why It’s So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism, Robin DiAngelo

[58Sunliner]

120. It's like they don't want to be honest, so you get feeble excuses.

You know they can't be that dumb, so it must be about prejudice and/or fear.

[milestogo]

122. Orwell predicted this.

“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, 1984

[gulliver]

125. You really can't ever call someone a "racist" without losing ground.

It's considered a slur and, effectively, a fighting word at this point. Racism obviously still exists and needs to be eradicated, but it has to be called out more skillfully than just crudely categorizing someone with a label. Would that it were that easy.

[Evolve Dammit]

126. "Alternative Facts" built to support their white entitlement. White groups (wink) are patriotic.

[malaise]

128. But WTF does patriotism mean when your cult leader is responsible for the deaths of

over 350,000 deaths and 20 million infections? Does it mean standing for the anthem and waving a flag? or is it about the lives, health. security and welfare of all Americans?

[Evolve Dammit]

137. Many are too blind or brainwashed to know the distinction. Cult 45 is just that. Willing.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

129. It's the natural tendency of humans, but especially low info/not very intellctually gifted people

to believe what they believe and reject proof that they're wrong. But in RWers it's been cultivated by RW media propaganda. Especially in the way that they present completely flawed and illogical arguments as valid proof of whatever they're selling. And the way they can say one thing and the next day say the complete opposite. And the blatant hypocrisy. Their cult doesn't spot the problem with any of this.

I do wonder sometimes how these people manage to keep jobs and, basically, stay alive. If they choose their doctors, lawyers, car mechanics, partners, and friends with the same lack of reason, their lives must be a mess.

[appleannie1]

130. Just like educated people can lack common sense, the same applies to education and racism.

Either you care about your fellow human beings or you don't and color should not matter. Just the fact that somehow giving a damn about other people is cause to sneer and call someone a libtard. It is all the same. It is a form of selfishness and somehow thinking thyself is somehow better than thou art. You really can't reason with that attitude. It is usually instilled at a very young age and becomes a part of the person.

[Rebl2]

131. Having an ivy

league education doesn’t necessarily make you smart. Look at all the republicans who have ILE that don’t seem intelligent at all.

[jimlup]

132. They have been about redefining words from way back!

This is what they do now. They learned awhile ago that it worked because propaganda works. They are the masters of propaganda and the fools of governing.

[DAngelo136]

134. Nope. That's How Conservatives Roll.

Take this excerpt from the essay "What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong With It"

"Conservatism has opposed rational thought for thousands of years. What most people know nowadays as conservatism is basically a public relations campaign aimed at persuading them to lay down their capacity for rational thought.

Conservatism frequently attempts to destroy rational thought, for example, by using language in ways that stand just out of reach of rational debate or rebuttal.

Conservatism has used a wide variety of methods to destroy reason throughout history. Fortunately, many of these methods, such as the suppression of popular literacy, are incompatible with a modern economy. Once the common people started becoming educated, more sophisticated methods of domination were required. Thus the invention of public relations, which is a kind of rationalized irrationality. The great innovation of conservatism in recent decades has been the systematic reinvention of politics using the technology of public relations.

The main idea of public relations is the distinction between "messages" and "facts". Messages are the things you want people to believe. A message should be vague enough that it is difficult to refute by rational means. (People in politics refer to messages as "strategies" and people who devise strategies as "strategists". The Democrats have strategists too, and it is not at all clear that they should, but they scarcely compare with the vast public relations machinery of the right.) It is useful to think of each message as a kind of pipeline: a steady stream of facts is selected (or twisted, or fabricated) to fit the message. Contrary facts are of course ignored. The goal is what the professionals call "message repetition". This provides activists with something to do: come up with new facts to fit the conservative authorities' chosen messages. Having become established in this way, messages must also be continually intertwined with one another. This is one job of pundits."

http://www.takeoverworld.info/conservatism.htm

[Aussie105]

136. Beware the sub-humans out there!

It has nothing to do with politics or education.

It's to do with early childhood upbringing.

Some kids are taught that being kind and considerate to others is an important moral compass to live by.
Others are taught the zero sum approach, for them to get ahead they need to knock down others.

That is carried forward throughout life. Education just doesn't touch that.

The world's religions focus on the first. Even Zoroastrianism, an ancient religion that predates Christianity by 3,000 years, preached Heaven was in the day to day things you did - kindness, consideration and helping others.
I guess early Christians had a hard time putting that into practice, so Heaven was moved along to the after life.

But the fake religious people worship money and power. And treading on others.
It's seen in many of the modern day churches they build. Sterile places of non worship of the true values of their religion.

Sorry for the rant, but I had to . . .