How did the WaPo get a recording of the conversation between Trump and Raffensperger?

[Laelth]

Easy answer—Georgia law. In Georgia, you must assume that any phone conversation you have is being recorded by the person to whom you are speaking. A third party can not legally record a conversation between two people who are unaware that they are being recorded, but the actual parties to the conversation have every right to record (and subsequently publish) their own conversations (with or without the permission of the person to whom they are speaking).

In this case, it is almost certain that Raffensberger recorded the conversation (without Trump’s permission) and then published it via The Washington Post. This is entirely legal under Georgia law, and, while I expect that Trump’s knickers are in a twist about it, there’s nothing that he can do.

Note that the laws on recording phone conversations vary widely by state.



-Laelth

[lame54]

1. I'm sure there are 2 recordings of this

[Yoyoyo77]

25. Lordy There are Tapes!!!!!

[soldierant]

58. Possibly three.

[GopherGal]

86. Or more

Does Team Treasonweasel record everything? Or to they forbear to do so, fearing it could be subject to subpoena? (not that they'd comply...)
Certainly VladdyDaddy has a copy, without or without Agent Orange's cooperation. (most likely with)

[soldierant]

94. Indeed.

I was thinking Raffensberger had his general counsel on, and they could have both recorded it - that's legal.

I didn't realize when I typed it that Trump* had half the White House on the line, starting with Mark Meadows.

[turtleblossom]

76. Tяump is really taking a big swing at the swing states.

I imagine the other swing states that received the same call from Tяump. Will there be others coming out?

[demmiblue]

2. Well, this was his tweet this morning:

Link to tweet

[Cha]

15. trump Always Fucking LIES.. Rt TY.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. Still Doing "Respectfully"

Why? Guy throws him under the bus, calls and tries to bribe & threaten, has a follower who, without direct condemnation, posts he should he should hanged for treason, and it's "respectfully".
I'm not seeing the courage in that.

[brush]

30. What's courageous is that Raffensberger recorded the conversation...

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:55 PM - Edit history (1)

with trump and released it. It graphically details trump's corruption and criminal behavior.

There are other threads right her on DU where you can hear the recording.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. I Heard It

He likely recorded it as ammunition. He knew they were going to trash him, and he had audio he can use to say "Watch yourself, folks.". Then Wood goes the next mile, so Raf had to drop a dime.
Not seeing the courage there either.
The right thing? Sure.
But, courage would have been releasing the recording the same day. He released it after the pushed him against the wall.
And, I still don't understand " respectfully ".

[brush]

48. I disgree. The safe thing to do was nothing. No one would've found out...

about the conversation. He released it to WAPO and knew if would therefore get out, as would his name. And now it's blown up all over the news.

[ProfessorGAC]

68. That's Fine

We don't agree on this. No reason we have to. Just different opinions. Have a good rest of your day.

[ToxMarz]

52. I think releasing it AFTER Trump lied about the conversation

was much more damning. Doubly damning.

[brush]

73. Yes. His release directly contradicted trump and grapically...

displayed his corrupt criminality.

[lunatica]

79. I say, "With all due respect" every time

I nail someone to the wall. I want to make sure they know I just told them to fuck off or that they’re lying and I know it. It keeps it all just shy of extreme expletives. In my experience it works. Especially if you’re talking to management.

[reACTIONary]

69. His lawyer was in on the call...

... you don't need courage, you need a good lawyer.

[brush]

72. A good lawyer helps. But he could've opted to just play it safe...

Last edited Mon Jan 4, 2021, 01:15 AM - Edit history (1)

and not release the call. He released it, probably with the attorney advising him it was a cya move. That still, IMO, took courage because he as the source of the release came out.

He has a family and still has to live in Georgia.

[reACTIONary]

74. You are right. nt

[misanthrope]

95. It's called CYA

with a good dose of exasperation. Raffensperger and Germany were likely guarding themselves against possible charges from Trump's end of things. They were likely tired of being hectored by him as well.

[brush]

97. Yes, cya. I edited my post.

[brewens]

96. I'm thinking he had some major assurances that Trump will not be able to stay in power.

I think he could have been confident of that without hearing from any of the higher up republicans, but he knows he's safe from at least any long term trouble. I would be shocked to see Trump at least try and have him arrested and charged with something though.

[Tommymac]

40. Oh I see it. This is a masterful use of 'politeness'.

referring to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

[Laelth]

53. That's Georgia for you.

In Georgia, “bless his heart” is the equivalent of “f*** that dude!”

Understatement rules!



-Laelth

[MustLoveBeagles]

66. Love this

[ProfessorGAC]

70. That Could Be

I hadn't considered he would be clever enough for that.
Perhaps he is.

[Laelth]

80. Cleverness isn't required.

In Georgia, “bless his heart” means “f*** that mother******.” Raffensberger’s message is quite clear to a native Georgian.



-Laelth

[ProfessorGAC]

81. I'm ProfessorGAC...

...and I approve this message!

[Laelth]

83. Thank you. It's nice to be heard. n/t

-Laelth

[SergeStorms]

43. "HE has no clue"?

Donnie, I'm sure you look in a mirror at least 100 times a day, and you never see the REAL LOSER on any of those occasions?

[TNNurse]

54. Mary Trump said her Uncle Donald

is the only person who can gaslight himself.

[reACTIONary]

71. I hope he's the only one...

... there may be a few up-and-comers amoungst the repugs. Eternal vigilance ....

[dutch777]

3. Putin got an early copy too

[servermsh]

4. I don't know, but CNN and MSNBC need to put lawyers on NOW!

CNN has the journalist, who is not a lawyer, commenting on the legality. MSNBC has Kaine.

Get the lawyers on!

[dhol82]

78. MSNBC had Joyce Vance on earlier

She was talking slow down and listen to all the evidence. We need to hear the entire tape and then investigate everything.
Standard law speak.
She was hopefully thinking, “Fuck that son of a beyotch! We got him good this time.”

[Atticus]

5. Thank you for that info. Your post made me grin from ear to ear! Trump was not just being a

thug---he was bring a careless thug.

Arrogance bit him in the ass again.

[Laelth]

8. Nothing new there.

Note that Raffensberger said very little in the conversation. He was more than happy to allow Trump to bury himself with his own words.



-Laelth

[Mike 03]

12. Ha. I noticed that too.

[Atticus]

13. "Please proceed---" nt

[malaise]

6. The article says Georgia officials

so Raffensberger was not the only person present for the call

In a one-hour phone call on Saturday with Georgia election officials, President Trump insisted he won the state and threatened vague legal consequences if the officials did not act. These are excerpts from the call.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

[Laelth]

10. Raffensberger's attorney was also on the line.

It may have been the attorney who published the conversation, but I would assume that Raffensberger personally consented to the conversation’s publication.

-Laelth

[Tommymac]

42. No, The Entire World is on the party line now!

I love the internets. Thanks Al!

[malaise]

57. Ha

Indeed

[Solly Mack]

7. Yep. Raffensberger did it. They may say it was his "office" or Ryan Germany that did it.

But it was him and the lawyer that did it.

[MineralMan]

9. Trump's Head Is Gonna 'Splode.

[PJMcK]

16. Imagine Trump's inner monologue

Well, it's probably more like a cacophony of different voices, each screaming insanely. In what would have been a soul, he has a hot cauldron of hate, fear, anger and knowledge of his own incompetence. There ain't nothin' pretty in there!

[sarge43]

46. Nope. It's filled with chain saws and komodo dragons.

(With thanks to The Ferret)

[erronis]

60. URGENT: Command from Komrad Putin! Do as I say, not as your sniveling other voices say.

I wonder if the radio linkage gets a bit f'd up every now and then. Or if SStephen Miller hasn't figured out short-circuiting it.

[Dr. Strange]

77. I suspect his inner monologue sounds something like...

Stage 5 of Everywhere at the End of Time.

[GopherGal]

84. Or, as SNL would have it

Kimberly Guilfoyle at the RNC

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/10/snl-cold-open-maya-rudoph-kamala-harris-jim-carrey-joe-biden-presidential-debate-1234590428/]

[Tommymac]

44. So are his depends.

[MineralMan]

45. TMI Right There...

[exboyfil]

11. Raffensperger might want to look under his car

When he turns it on because the whole thing sounds like something from the mob.

[Laelth]

14. He's rightly concerned.

His best defense, at this point, is to get everything out into the open. That way, if he does meet misfortune under mysterious circumstances, it’s clear who the perpetrator was.

-Laelth

[GopherGal]

88. That was my thought as well

not that I have any special subject knowledge (other than having watched too many crime dramas).

But the safest thing for him to do to minimize danger to himself is to get the solid evidence out there. Anything anyone does to Raffensperger risks increasing their criminal exposure for a cover-up of what is now something that's already in the open.

[Boomerproud]

19. Is Raffensperger still a Trumper after this?

On Faux he sounded like a total lapdog.

[David__77]

23. It is probably beneficial for him to be, for now.

...

[Laelth]

24. Presumably and mysteriously, yes.

He’s still an ardent supporter of the President, despite all of this. That said, it appears that his personal integrity is greater than his loyalty to the President.

A principled Republican ... who knew?



-Laelth

[groundloop]

49. He's still a GOPer, and as S.O.S. he's in charge of voter suppression in Georgia

[sarge43]

47. Be sure to check the brake lines, Mr Secratary n/t

[StarfishSaver]

17. Mrs. Betty Bowers may have the answer:

Link to tweet

FYI, Georgia is a one-party recording state - as long as one party consents to being recorded, the recording is legal.

[PJMcK]

18. A question about telephone recording laws

The Georgia law you cite is pretty clear cut. But what if the call is an interstate call? Which state's laws dominate? I assume D.C. has its own phone call recording statutes. How do they interact with Georgia's?

Thanks, in advance.

[Laelth]

20. It's a question of venue.

A defendant may only be sued in his or her state of residence (unless the alleged offense occurred outside of the state of residence of the defendant). That’s venue, and it’s Constitutional (the most powerful law we have). Thus, Raffensberger could only be sued in Georgia, and Georgia law would apply to this alleged offense. In addition, Raffensberger was in Georgia when the alleged offense occurred. For both these reasons—two, separate venue defenses—Raffensberger should prevail and Georgia law should apply.

I feel certain that Raffensberger’s attorney felt completely safe publishing this conversation because Raffensberger’s venue defense is rock solid.

-Laelth

[lindysalsagal]

26. Regardless of law, imho, such a conversation by an elected official should be allowed

since it involves the attempt to maintain power by illegal and unethical means.

[Laelth]

34. It might be.

Venue is a complete defense, but a Court of Equity could violate the law and refuse to sanction a particular violation of the law if doing so served the greater interests of justice.

In this case, the cat is already out of the bag. Courts could sanction Raffensberger (unlikely but possible), but the damage has already been done. The Courts have no remedy that they could grant Trump at this point.

-Laelth

[MyOwnPeace]

39. I'm thinking that Gohmert and Cruz

will file a suit because that kind of stuff is only legal with RepubliCons in Texas!

[PJMcK]

27. Thank you for the clarification! (n/t)

[Laelth]

35. You're welcome. n/t

-Laelth

[Sgent]

93. Even if venue were met

Sovereign immunity might also come into play since he was acting in is role as SOS at the time. It *might* keep the tapes out of federal courts as evidence but in no way would he be liable for anything.

Note, the above is just speculation.

[pnwmom]

64. DC also has a one-party consent law, so this broke no law on either end. n/t

[PJMcK]

65. Thank you (n/t)

[SledDriver]

22. Raffensperger should have invited the entire press pool to sit in on the call

Let them stream it live

[lindysalsagal]

28. This guarantees the orangatan won't do any more live appearances.

For that we can be grateful.

[Laelth]

29. That he could not do without Trump's permission.

Third parties can not legally record conversations between people, under Georgia law, without the consent of the persons being recorded, but, under Georgia law, Raffensberger is free to record and publish his own conversations with or without the permission of the person to whom he is speaking, and that’s exactly what it appears he did.



-Laelth

[BGBD]

32. Yup

One person on the call has to know about the recording, but not both.

Since Trump clearly didn't think he was being recorded that means the tapes come from Raffensberger. Very easy to see how these tapes made their way to WaPo.

Raffensberger recorded them and when Trump started lying about the conversation he handed the tapes to the paper.

[erronis]

61. Wasn't a legal representative in on the call also? Where is the line drawn?

Not that I'm arguing with the analysis or the outcome...

[Mr.Bill]

31. I wonder if it's possible someone in the White House

leaked the phone call.

[BGBD]

33. I think when you look at the tweet

Raffenberger sent would the truth of the call coming out, it's obvious they came from him.

[LiberalArkie]

37. It is legal by the communications act of 1934. Linda Tripp should have been jailed as neither party

knew what she was doing.

[Warpy]

38. "This call may be recorded for quality assurance"

Most calls to corporations or government have the same warning.

My guess is that it was leaked by Raffenperger's office.

[ancianita]

41. Ah, why he accepted the call now makes sense.

[Laelth]

50. Yep. Trump has been attacking Raffensberger for weeks.

Raffensberger just built and published his defense. It was a savvy move.

-Laelth

[Sogo]

51. Georgia saving the nation, over and over again!

[Laelth]

56. We argued against the Civil War.

The confederacy made Alexander Stephens, a Georgian, Vice President just to appease the anti-war southerners.

Georgia has always been different from its Southern neighbors. Slavery was forbidden in the original charter of the Georgia colony.

“Wisdom, justice, moderation, constitution,” is the state motto. I am proud to be a native Georgian. Compared to our peers, Georgia is liberal. On the whole, Georgia is moderate ... now as always.

-Laelth

Edited to add: It gives me great joy seeing Georgia being the lone, sane, blue state in the deep South in the 2020 election.

[Sogo]

59. Love it!

[Laelth]

63. I would also add ...

that Georgia has given the nation one, and only one, President ... James Earl Carter, Jr., a DEMOCRAT, and one of which I am perpetually proud.



-Laelth

[Squidly]

91. I dont care what anyone says

He is one of this nations greatest presidents. A truly kind and caring man and a blessing to humanity.

[Cozmo]

55. This feels like an episode of The Twilight Zone

On NYE, I tried to watch Andy Cohen and Anderson Cooper but couldn't, so I watched The Twilight Zone instead. Who knew we would get a real life episode like this one. That spooky music is playing in my head!

[pnwmom]

62. AND ALSO the AP and NPR. Someone wanted to make sure this got out there. n/t

[dlk]

67. Raffensberger may be a Republican but he's no fool

Imagine being in the crosshairs of the president. That would intimidate anyone.

[bullwinkle428]

75. You learn VERY EARLY when working in the corporate world - when you're dealing with

someone who's proven themselves to be a low-life, underhanded piece of shit, that you do everything you possibly need to do, in order to make sure your own ass is covered.

[onetexan]

82. the Con will attempt to sue Raffensberger for releasing the recording i'm sure

[MustLoveBeagles]

87. He is

The dumbass doesn't know that what the Georgia SOS did is perfectly legal.

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/politics/elections/trump-phone-call-brad-raffersperger-lawsuit/85-a0c1c287-b69f-470e-a8b6-d1cdf9df1b11

[apnu]

90. Of course Trump will do this. It is his M.O. after all.

Sue! Sue! Sue!

Fuck around in the courts and force his opposition to spend so much time and money fighting frivolous lawsuits or endless procedural delays and appeals that they go away in defeat.

Trump is famous for weaponizing the legal system.

[Laelth]

98. He is remarkably, sickeningly good at it. n/t

-Laelth

[Hekate]

85. I'm sure as soon as Raffensberger heard who was on the line he hit the Record button...

And as soon as it was over I think he hit the Send button to CNN and WaPo.

[apnu]

89. I recall reading, in 2016, about Trump's own lawyers would routinely record him

In any and all meetings. They also went in pairs, two lawyers from the firm Trump retained. No this is not Cohen I'm talking about, but some fancy NYC real estate legal frim.

This was because he lied so much, changed his story so much, even changed what/why/how he hired them.

This was his own counsel! They were on Trump's side!

[UnderThisLaw]

92. Legally - nt.

[Laelth]

99. Correct. n/t

-Laelth