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Laelth

(32,017 posts)
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:13 PM Jan 2021

How did the WaPo get a recording of the conversation between Trump and Raffensperger?

Easy answer—Georgia law. In Georgia, you must assume that any phone conversation you have is being recorded by the person to whom you are speaking. A third party can not legally record a conversation between two people who are unaware that they are being recorded, but the actual parties to the conversation have every right to record (and subsequently publish) their own conversations (with or without the permission of the person to whom they are speaking).

In this case, it is almost certain that Raffensberger recorded the conversation (without Trump’s permission) and then published it via The Washington Post. This is entirely legal under Georgia law, and, while I expect that Trump’s knickers are in a twist about it, there’s nothing that he can do.

Note that the laws on recording phone conversations vary widely by state.



-Laelth

99 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How did the WaPo get a recording of the conversation between Trump and Raffensperger? (Original Post) Laelth Jan 2021 OP
I'm sure there are 2 recordings of this lame54 Jan 2021 #1
Lordy There are Tapes!!!!! Yoyoyo77 Jan 2021 #25
Possibly three. soldierant Jan 2021 #58
Or more GopherGal Jan 2021 #86
Indeed. soldierant Jan 2021 #94
Tяump is really taking a big swing at the swing states. turtleblossom Jan 2021 #76
Well, this was his tweet this morning: demmiblue Jan 2021 #2
trump Always Fucking LIES.. Rt TY. Cha Jan 2021 #15
Still Doing "Respectfully" ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #21
What's courageous is that Raffensberger recorded the conversation... brush Jan 2021 #30
I Heard It ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #36
I disgree. The safe thing to do was nothing. No one would've found out... brush Jan 2021 #48
That's Fine ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #68
I think releasing it AFTER Trump lied about the conversation ToxMarz Jan 2021 #52
Yes. His release directly contradicted trump and grapically... brush Jan 2021 #73
I say, "With all due respect" every time lunatica Jan 2021 #79
His lawyer was in on the call... reACTIONary Jan 2021 #69
A good lawyer helps. But he could've opted to just play it safe... brush Jan 2021 #72
You are right. nt reACTIONary Jan 2021 #74
It's called CYA misanthrope Jan 2021 #95
Yes, cya. I edited my post. brush Jan 2021 #97
I'm thinking he had some major assurances that Trump will not be able to stay in power. brewens Jan 2021 #96
Oh I see it. This is a masterful use of 'politeness'. Tommymac Jan 2021 #40
That's Georgia for you. Laelth Jan 2021 #53
Love this MustLoveBeagles Jan 2021 #66
That Could Be ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #70
Cleverness isn't required. Laelth Jan 2021 #80
I'm ProfessorGAC... ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #81
Thank you. It's nice to be heard. n/t Laelth Jan 2021 #83
"HE has no clue"? SergeStorms Jan 2021 #43
Mary Trump said her Uncle Donald TNNurse Jan 2021 #54
I hope he's the only one... reACTIONary Jan 2021 #71
Putin got an early copy too dutch777 Jan 2021 #3
I don't know, but CNN and MSNBC need to put lawyers on NOW! servermsh Jan 2021 #4
MSNBC had Joyce Vance on earlier dhol82 Jan 2021 #78
Thank you for that info. Your post made me grin from ear to ear! Trump was not just being a Atticus Jan 2021 #5
Nothing new there. Laelth Jan 2021 #8
Ha. I noticed that too. Mike 03 Jan 2021 #12
"Please proceed---" nt Atticus Jan 2021 #13
The article says Georgia officials malaise Jan 2021 #6
Raffensberger's attorney was also on the line. Laelth Jan 2021 #10
No, The Entire World is on the party line now! Tommymac Jan 2021 #42
Ha malaise Jan 2021 #57
Yep. Raffensberger did it. They may say it was his "office" or Ryan Germany that did it. Solly Mack Jan 2021 #7
Trump's Head Is Gonna 'Splode. MineralMan Jan 2021 #9
Imagine Trump's inner monologue PJMcK Jan 2021 #16
Nope. It's filled with chain saws and komodo dragons. sarge43 Jan 2021 #46
URGENT: Command from Komrad Putin! Do as I say, not as your sniveling other voices say. erronis Jan 2021 #60
I suspect his inner monologue sounds something like... Dr. Strange Jan 2021 #77
Or, as SNL would have it GopherGal Jan 2021 #84
So are his depends. Tommymac Jan 2021 #44
TMI Right There... MineralMan Jan 2021 #45
Raffensperger might want to look under his car exboyfil Jan 2021 #11
He's rightly concerned. Laelth Jan 2021 #14
That was my thought as well GopherGal Jan 2021 #88
Is Raffensperger still a Trumper after this? Boomerproud Jan 2021 #19
It is probably beneficial for him to be, for now. David__77 Jan 2021 #23
Presumably and mysteriously, yes. Laelth Jan 2021 #24
He's still a GOPer, and as S.O.S. he's in charge of voter suppression in Georgia groundloop Jan 2021 #49
Be sure to check the brake lines, Mr Secratary n/t sarge43 Jan 2021 #47
Mrs. Betty Bowers may have the answer: StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #17
A question about telephone recording laws PJMcK Jan 2021 #18
It's a question of venue. Laelth Jan 2021 #20
Regardless of law, imho, such a conversation by an elected official should be allowed lindysalsagal Jan 2021 #26
It might be. Laelth Jan 2021 #34
I'm thinking that Gohmert and Cruz MyOwnPeace Jan 2021 #39
Thank you for the clarification! (n/t) PJMcK Jan 2021 #27
You're welcome. n/t Laelth Jan 2021 #35
Even if venue were met Sgent Jan 2021 #93
DC also has a one-party consent law, so this broke no law on either end. n/t pnwmom Jan 2021 #64
Thank you (n/t) PJMcK Jan 2021 #65
Raffensperger should have invited the entire press pool to sit in on the call SledDriver Jan 2021 #22
This guarantees the orangatan won't do any more live appearances. lindysalsagal Jan 2021 #28
That he could not do without Trump's permission. Laelth Jan 2021 #29
Yup BGBD Jan 2021 #32
Wasn't a legal representative in on the call also? Where is the line drawn? erronis Jan 2021 #61
I wonder if it's possible someone in the White House Mr.Bill Jan 2021 #31
I think when you look at the tweet BGBD Jan 2021 #33
It is legal by the communications act of 1934. Linda Tripp should have been jailed as neither party LiberalArkie Jan 2021 #37
"This call may be recorded for quality assurance" Warpy Jan 2021 #38
Ah, why he accepted the call now makes sense. ancianita Jan 2021 #41
Yep. Trump has been attacking Raffensberger for weeks. Laelth Jan 2021 #50
Georgia saving the nation, over and over again! Sogo Jan 2021 #51
We argued against the Civil War. Laelth Jan 2021 #56
Love it! Sogo Jan 2021 #59
I would also add ... Laelth Jan 2021 #63
I dont care what anyone says Squidly Jan 2021 #91
This feels like an episode of The Twilight Zone Cozmo Jan 2021 #55
AND ALSO the AP and NPR. Someone wanted to make sure this got out there. n/t pnwmom Jan 2021 #62
Raffensberger may be a Republican but he's no fool dlk Jan 2021 #67
You learn VERY EARLY when working in the corporate world - when you're dealing with bullwinkle428 Jan 2021 #75
the Con will attempt to sue Raffensberger for releasing the recording i'm sure onetexan Jan 2021 #82
He is MustLoveBeagles Jan 2021 #87
Of course Trump will do this. It is his M.O. after all. apnu Jan 2021 #90
He is remarkably, sickeningly good at it. n/t Laelth Jan 2021 #98
I'm sure as soon as Raffensberger heard who was on the line he hit the Record button... Hekate Jan 2021 #85
I recall reading, in 2016, about Trump's own lawyers would routinely record him apnu Jan 2021 #89
Legally - nt. UnderThisLaw Jan 2021 #92
Correct. n/t Laelth Jan 2021 #99

GopherGal

(2,031 posts)
86. Or more
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 10:38 PM
Jan 2021

Does Team Treasonweasel record everything? Or to they forbear to do so, fearing it could be subject to subpoena? (not that they'd comply...)
Certainly VladdyDaddy has a copy, without or without Agent Orange's cooperation. (most likely with)

soldierant

(7,365 posts)
94. Indeed.
Mon Jan 4, 2021, 01:48 AM
Jan 2021

I was thinking Raffensberger had his general counsel on, and they could have both recorded it - that's legal.

I didn't realize when I typed it that Trump* had half the White House on the line, starting with Mark Meadows.

turtleblossom

(504 posts)
76. Tяump is really taking a big swing at the swing states.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 06:14 PM
Jan 2021

I imagine the other swing states that received the same call from Tяump. Will there be others coming out?

ProfessorGAC

(66,688 posts)
21. Still Doing "Respectfully"
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:53 PM
Jan 2021

Why? Guy throws him under the bus, calls and tries to bribe & threaten, has a follower who, without direct condemnation, posts he should he should hanged for treason, and it's "respectfully".
I'm not seeing the courage in that.

brush

(55,118 posts)
30. What's courageous is that Raffensberger recorded the conversation...
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:04 PM
Jan 2021

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

with trump and released it. It graphically details trump's corruption and criminal behavior.

There are other threads right her on DU where you can hear the recording.

ProfessorGAC

(66,688 posts)
36. I Heard It
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:30 PM
Jan 2021

He likely recorded it as ammunition. He knew they were going to trash him, and he had audio he can use to say "Watch yourself, folks.". Then Wood goes the next mile, so Raf had to drop a dime.
Not seeing the courage there either.
The right thing? Sure.
But, courage would have been releasing the recording the same day. He released it after the pushed him against the wall.
And, I still don't understand " respectfully ".

brush

(55,118 posts)
48. I disgree. The safe thing to do was nothing. No one would've found out...
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:53 PM
Jan 2021

about the conversation. He released it to WAPO and knew if would therefore get out, as would his name. And now it's blown up all over the news.

ProfessorGAC

(66,688 posts)
68. That's Fine
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:50 PM
Jan 2021

We don't agree on this. No reason we have to. Just different opinions. Have a good rest of your day.

brush

(55,118 posts)
73. Yes. His release directly contradicted trump and grapically...
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 06:05 PM
Jan 2021

displayed his corrupt criminality.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
79. I say, "With all due respect" every time
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 06:22 PM
Jan 2021

I nail someone to the wall. I want to make sure they know I just told them to fuck off or that they’re lying and I know it. It keeps it all just shy of extreme expletives. In my experience it works. Especially if you’re talking to management.

brush

(55,118 posts)
72. A good lawyer helps. But he could've opted to just play it safe...
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:58 PM
Jan 2021

Last edited Mon Jan 4, 2021, 02:15 AM - Edit history (1)

and not release the call. He released it, probably with the attorney advising him it was a cya move. That still, IMO, took courage because he as the source of the release came out.

He has a family and still has to live in Georgia.

misanthrope

(7,560 posts)
95. It's called CYA
Mon Jan 4, 2021, 01:52 AM
Jan 2021

with a good dose of exasperation. Raffensperger and Germany were likely guarding themselves against possible charges from Trump's end of things. They were likely tired of being hectored by him as well.

brewens

(14,054 posts)
96. I'm thinking he had some major assurances that Trump will not be able to stay in power.
Mon Jan 4, 2021, 01:59 AM
Jan 2021

I think he could have been confident of that without hearing from any of the higher up republicans, but he knows he's safe from at least any long term trouble. I would be shocked to see Trump at least try and have him arrested and charged with something though.

Tommymac

(7,266 posts)
40. Oh I see it. This is a masterful use of 'politeness'.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:42 PM
Jan 2021


referring to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
53. That's Georgia for you.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:06 PM
Jan 2021

In Georgia, “bless his heart” is the equivalent of “f*** that dude!”

Understatement rules!



-Laelth

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
80. Cleverness isn't required.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 07:21 PM
Jan 2021

In Georgia, “bless his heart” means “f*** that mother******.” Raffensberger’s message is quite clear to a native Georgian.



-Laelth

SergeStorms

(19,222 posts)
43. "HE has no clue"?
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:45 PM
Jan 2021

Donnie, I'm sure you look in a mirror at least 100 times a day, and you never see the REAL LOSER on any of those occasions?

reACTIONary

(5,848 posts)
71. I hope he's the only one...
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:53 PM
Jan 2021

... there may be a few up-and-comers amoungst the repugs. Eternal vigilance ....

servermsh

(913 posts)
4. I don't know, but CNN and MSNBC need to put lawyers on NOW!
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:17 PM
Jan 2021

CNN has the journalist, who is not a lawyer, commenting on the legality. MSNBC has Kaine.

Get the lawyers on!

dhol82

(9,372 posts)
78. MSNBC had Joyce Vance on earlier
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 06:18 PM
Jan 2021

She was talking slow down and listen to all the evidence. We need to hear the entire tape and then investigate everything.
Standard law speak.
She was hopefully thinking, “Fuck that son of a beyotch! We got him good this time.”

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
5. Thank you for that info. Your post made me grin from ear to ear! Trump was not just being a
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:17 PM
Jan 2021

thug---he was bring a careless thug.

Arrogance bit him in the ass again.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
8. Nothing new there.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:21 PM
Jan 2021

Note that Raffensberger said very little in the conversation. He was more than happy to allow Trump to bury himself with his own words.



-Laelth

malaise

(271,787 posts)
6. The article says Georgia officials
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:18 PM
Jan 2021

so Raffensberger was not the only person present for the call

In a one-hour phone call on Saturday with Georgia election officials
, President Trump insisted he won the state and threatened vague legal consequences if the officials did not act. These are excerpts from the call.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trump-berates-ga-secretary-of-state-urges-him-to-find-votes/2021/01/03/aba64f5f-8c3c-490f-af34-618ccea732d7_video.html

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
10. Raffensberger's attorney was also on the line.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:24 PM
Jan 2021

It may have been the attorney who published the conversation, but I would assume that Raffensberger personally consented to the conversation’s publication.

-Laelth

Solly Mack

(91,120 posts)
7. Yep. Raffensberger did it. They may say it was his "office" or Ryan Germany that did it.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:19 PM
Jan 2021

But it was him and the lawyer that did it.

PJMcK

(22,219 posts)
16. Imagine Trump's inner monologue
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:32 PM
Jan 2021

Well, it's probably more like a cacophony of different voices, each screaming insanely. In what would have been a soul, he has a hot cauldron of hate, fear, anger and knowledge of his own incompetence. There ain't nothin' pretty in there!

erronis

(15,973 posts)
60. URGENT: Command from Komrad Putin! Do as I say, not as your sniveling other voices say.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:37 PM
Jan 2021

I wonder if the radio linkage gets a bit f'd up every now and then. Or if SStephen Miller hasn't figured out short-circuiting it.

exboyfil

(17,894 posts)
11. Raffensperger might want to look under his car
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:26 PM
Jan 2021

When he turns it on because the whole thing sounds like something from the mob.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
14. He's rightly concerned.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:30 PM
Jan 2021

His best defense, at this point, is to get everything out into the open. That way, if he does meet misfortune under mysterious circumstances, it’s clear who the perpetrator was.

-Laelth

GopherGal

(2,031 posts)
88. That was my thought as well
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 10:49 PM
Jan 2021

not that I have any special subject knowledge (other than having watched too many crime dramas).

But the safest thing for him to do to minimize danger to himself is to get the solid evidence out there. Anything anyone does to Raffensperger risks increasing their criminal exposure for a cover-up of what is now something that's already in the open.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
24. Presumably and mysteriously, yes.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:56 PM
Jan 2021

He’s still an ardent supporter of the President, despite all of this. That said, it appears that his personal integrity is greater than his loyalty to the President.

A principled Republican ... who knew?



-Laelth

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
17. Mrs. Betty Bowers may have the answer:
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:33 PM
Jan 2021



FYI, Georgia is a one-party recording state - as long as one party consents to being recorded, the recording is legal.

PJMcK

(22,219 posts)
18. A question about telephone recording laws
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:35 PM
Jan 2021

The Georgia law you cite is pretty clear cut. But what if the call is an interstate call? Which state's laws dominate? I assume D.C. has its own phone call recording statutes. How do they interact with Georgia's?

Thanks, in advance.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
20. It's a question of venue.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:45 PM
Jan 2021

A defendant may only be sued in his or her state of residence (unless the alleged offense occurred outside of the state of residence of the defendant). That’s venue, and it’s Constitutional (the most powerful law we have). Thus, Raffensberger could only be sued in Georgia, and Georgia law would apply to this alleged offense. In addition, Raffensberger was in Georgia when the alleged offense occurred. For both these reasons—two, separate venue defenses—Raffensberger should prevail and Georgia law should apply.

I feel certain that Raffensberger’s attorney felt completely safe publishing this conversation because Raffensberger’s venue defense is rock solid.

-Laelth

lindysalsagal

(21,093 posts)
26. Regardless of law, imho, such a conversation by an elected official should be allowed
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 03:58 PM
Jan 2021

since it involves the attempt to maintain power by illegal and unethical means.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
34. It might be.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:09 PM
Jan 2021

Venue is a complete defense, but a Court of Equity could violate the law and refuse to sanction a particular violation of the law if doing so served the greater interests of justice.

In this case, the cat is already out of the bag. Courts could sanction Raffensberger (unlikely but possible), but the damage has already been done. The Courts have no remedy that they could grant Trump at this point.

-Laelth

MyOwnPeace

(17,029 posts)
39. I'm thinking that Gohmert and Cruz
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:41 PM
Jan 2021

will file a suit because that kind of stuff is only legal with RepubliCons in Texas!

Sgent

(5,858 posts)
93. Even if venue were met
Mon Jan 4, 2021, 01:04 AM
Jan 2021

Sovereign immunity might also come into play since he was acting in is role as SOS at the time. It *might* keep the tapes out of federal courts as evidence but in no way would he be liable for anything.

Note, the above is just speculation.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
29. That he could not do without Trump's permission.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:02 PM
Jan 2021

Third parties can not legally record conversations between people, under Georgia law, without the consent of the persons being recorded, but, under Georgia law, Raffensberger is free to record and publish his own conversations with or without the permission of the person to whom he is speaking, and that’s exactly what it appears he did.



-Laelth

 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
32. Yup
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:06 PM
Jan 2021

One person on the call has to know about the recording, but not both.

Since Trump clearly didn't think he was being recorded that means the tapes come from Raffensberger. Very easy to see how these tapes made their way to WaPo.

Raffensberger recorded them and when Trump started lying about the conversation he handed the tapes to the paper.

erronis

(15,973 posts)
61. Wasn't a legal representative in on the call also? Where is the line drawn?
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:41 PM
Jan 2021

Not that I'm arguing with the analysis or the outcome...

 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
33. I think when you look at the tweet
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:07 PM
Jan 2021

Raffenberger sent would the truth of the call coming out, it's obvious they came from him.

LiberalArkie

(15,862 posts)
37. It is legal by the communications act of 1934. Linda Tripp should have been jailed as neither party
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:33 PM
Jan 2021

knew what she was doing.

Warpy

(112,133 posts)
38. "This call may be recorded for quality assurance"
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 04:39 PM
Jan 2021

Most calls to corporations or government have the same warning.

My guess is that it was leaked by Raffenperger's office.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
50. Yep. Trump has been attacking Raffensberger for weeks.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:00 PM
Jan 2021

Raffensberger just built and published his defense. It was a savvy move.

-Laelth

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
56. We argued against the Civil War.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:15 PM
Jan 2021

The confederacy made Alexander Stephens, a Georgian, Vice President just to appease the anti-war southerners.

Georgia has always been different from its Southern neighbors. Slavery was forbidden in the original charter of the Georgia colony.

“Wisdom, justice, moderation, constitution,” is the state motto. I am proud to be a native Georgian. Compared to our peers, Georgia is liberal. On the whole, Georgia is moderate ... now as always.

-Laelth

Edited to add: It gives me great joy seeing Georgia being the lone, sane, blue state in the deep South in the 2020 election.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
63. I would also add ...
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:42 PM
Jan 2021

that Georgia has given the nation one, and only one, President ... James Earl Carter, Jr., a DEMOCRAT, and one of which I am perpetually proud.



-Laelth

Squidly

(786 posts)
91. I dont care what anyone says
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 11:00 PM
Jan 2021

He is one of this nations greatest presidents. A truly kind and caring man and a blessing to humanity.

Cozmo

(1,402 posts)
55. This feels like an episode of The Twilight Zone
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:14 PM
Jan 2021

On NYE, I tried to watch Andy Cohen and Anderson Cooper but couldn't, so I watched The Twilight Zone instead. Who knew we would get a real life episode like this one. That spooky music is playing in my head!

dlk

(11,850 posts)
67. Raffensberger may be a Republican but he's no fool
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 05:49 PM
Jan 2021

Imagine being in the crosshairs of the president. That would intimidate anyone.

bullwinkle428

(20,636 posts)
75. You learn VERY EARLY when working in the corporate world - when you're dealing with
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 06:07 PM
Jan 2021

someone who's proven themselves to be a low-life, underhanded piece of shit, that you do everything you possibly need to do, in order to make sure your own ass is covered.

apnu

(8,779 posts)
90. Of course Trump will do this. It is his M.O. after all.
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 10:57 PM
Jan 2021

Sue! Sue! Sue!

Fuck around in the courts and force his opposition to spend so much time and money fighting frivolous lawsuits or endless procedural delays and appeals that they go away in defeat.

Trump is famous for weaponizing the legal system.

Hekate

(92,320 posts)
85. I'm sure as soon as Raffensberger heard who was on the line he hit the Record button...
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 10:37 PM
Jan 2021

And as soon as it was over I think he hit the Send button to CNN and WaPo.

apnu

(8,779 posts)
89. I recall reading, in 2016, about Trump's own lawyers would routinely record him
Sun Jan 3, 2021, 10:53 PM
Jan 2021

In any and all meetings. They also went in pairs, two lawyers from the firm Trump retained. No this is not Cohen I'm talking about, but some fancy NYC real estate legal frim.

This was because he lied so much, changed his story so much, even changed what/why/how he hired them.

This was his own counsel! They were on Trump's side!

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