The NY Times finally talked to people who aren't Trump supporters. Guess what they found?

[kpete]

Here’s a sampling from the NY Times:

...“Many of us voted to get Trump out, not necessarily to be pro-Biden,” said Nancy
MacEoin, 47, a criminal defense lawyer in Philadelphia. “Backing off any sort of prosecution of Trump is going to alienate those people.”

...“He’s a crook and he needs to pay for the crimes he’s done,” said Teresa Steele, a Republican in Denton County, Texas, who voted for Mr. Biden.

...“The next guy who wants to be dictator or whoever, he’s going to be a lot smarter than Trump,” said Robert Landry, a retired truck driver in Two Rivers, Wis. “If you don’t hold these people accountable and say, ‘No, this is too far,’ somebody’s going to come along and push it further. I believe some of those people are already in Congress.”

...“The Democrats have unsuccessfully tried to be moderate in order to gain compromise and cooperation over and over again, and it hasn’t worked and it’s not going to work,” said Dave Bone, 54, an energy efficiency consultant who lives in Philadelphia.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1/21/2010994/-ICYMI-The-NY-Times-finally-talked-to-people-who-aren-t-Trump-supporters-Guess-what-they-found?utm_campaign=trending
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/us/politics/biden-trump-impeachment.html

[panader0]

1. The retired truck driver is right.

[Cobalt Violet]

7. I think David Bone is too. n/t

[Nitram]

37. My thought precisely. We dodged a bullet with Trump. The big fat orange canary in the coal mine.

[applegrove]

63. +100

[Ani Yun Wiya]

2. "Backing off any sort of prosecution of Trump is going to alienate those people."

Trump is where to start, there are many others that need to be prosecuted and jailed too...

[BSdetect]

6. It will alienate me too. Show strength by prosecuting every single one of them

Especially drumpf

[3Hotdogs]

12. If we didn't impeach Bush for an illegal war that cost 5,000 American lives and $trillion

what makes us think we are going after the Gropenfuhrer?

[BSdetect]

27. That is precisely the fear now. Time to smack them hard in the courts.

[Turin_C3PO]

41. Trump is worse than Bush.

He actually attempted (and almost succeeded) at overthrowing our democracy and institutions. It’s more likely he’ll face justice for his crimes.

[llmart]

48. Not to mention he's killed over 400,000 Americans.

Dubya was just minor league in the killing department compared to trump.

[dustyscamp]

34. Same, there must be some consequences to his actions

So many have suffered because of his incompetent leadership. 410,000k dead and rising so far and that is only covid19 deaths.
Many Kurds have died and have been forced to leave their home. Many of his minions have murdered people out in the streets.
How can people say we should move on?

[usaf-vet]

25. My wife and I are some of those people that will be alienated if Trump and his grifters are NOT....

..... punished!

We are faithful small-money donors. That will stop if President Biden doesn't start filling the wing of a federal prison. VP Harris could IMHO easily be elected POTUS after Biden. But she won't get the support of any kind from us. We had to sacrifice to send monthly donations to national candidates. That left local charities that need help off of our list for several years. To put Biden and Harris in office.

Don't let MoscowMitch the traitor, wield and minority power. He is already threatening to work against Biden's legislative agenda.

If he makes one F..ing move to kill the Democratic agenda. Starting with trying to deny the gavel to Democratic committee chairs, KILL THE GD FILIBUSTER 51-50.... now if he tries to interfere with OUR agenda. Like he did with Obama.

If memory serves me right the Democrats have won the last two popular votes for POTUS by large margins. That is not a group you want to deny and lose their support.

[Eyeball_Kid]

31. Treat McConnell like a road-kill.

Drive around him or run over him and risk the bump. Whatever else, DON'T treat him as an equal. If that's what happens, he'll rise up and eat you alive. McConnell won't change. Give him an inch and he'll destroy you. Every time.

[usaf-vet]

51. Perfect description of the snake. Thanks!

[smirkymonkey]

64. +1000

[SheltieLover]

3. K&R!

[Alpeduez21]

4. The energy efficiency consultant has hit the nail on the head n/t

[UpInArms]

5. More from your link

Arturo Sutter, a Biden voter in Miami, said that if the actions of Mr. Trump and his family are not fully investigated and punished, Trumpism will extend a grip over Republican politics for decades, in the same way that Juan Perón, another demagogic populist, still overshadows Mr. Sutter’s native Argentina.

“I’m 60 years old, Evita was dead seven years before I was born,” Mr. Sutter said of Mr. Perón’s wife, a partner in power. “In Argentina, they are still claiming Evita and Perón were the best things in the world.”

“Whatever justice can do to show how this person used the government to enrich himself and his friends and family, it will help,” he said of Mr. Trump.

“So many people are convinced of so many fantasies,” he said of Trump supporters.

“I saw this movie before.”

[a la izquierda]

61. He is absolutely right.

Nt

[agingdem]

8. another NYT edition of

"Trump Sells Papers"... looks like the NYT is not ready to admit they have a severe Trump addiction...

[MissMillie]

9. Mr. Dave Bone has it right

Every time we go to the middle, they keep moving right (to the point of ridiculousness).

When people like Biden and Obama get labeled "radical" you know the "middle" is no where near the middle anymore.

[area51]

15. +1 n/t

[oldsoftie]

18. The funny thing is, the Right says the exact same thing about the "RINOs"

I've seen it for years. The exact same sentiment. ANY compromise is seen as total capitulation. To them, Romney & McCain are the perfect examples of "failed" republicans.
I know people who think Dan Crenshaw & Nikki Haley are BOTH RINOs

[Bettie]

21. The problem is that our side

moves toward the center while the other side backs up, moving the goalposts as they do.

We take a step toward them and they take a few steps back and then scream that we are unwilling to compromise.

Do you really believe that Moscow Mitch is actually willing to work with anyone? Did his performance in the Obama years teach us NOTHING?

[MissMillie]

24. My point EXACTLY

but there was a time in this country when we had a growing middle class and an economy that worked for everyone. Dig up the policies of that time (and back then, NO ONE called them "radical" ). They may have to be tweaked a bit to address differing technologies, etc., but there used to be a time when people who make huge sums of money actually paid some taxes. We got a Interstate Highway system out of it. People had jobs.

It wasn't "radical" to think that people would pay taxes and in exchange get jobs and services.

[KS Toronado]

47. Seems like republiCONs have a U.S. patent on the word "radical"

They put it in front of everything, radical Democrats, radical socialists, radical left, radical union members,
radical Biden, radical Nancy, radical AOC,etc, etc.....Should we start fighting fire with fire?
No more RADICAL REPUBLICAN TERRORISTS!

[Turin_C3PO]

42. Except with the right it's not true.

There’s no “both sides” to this. Democrats have remained a sensible center-left party while the Repubs have moved further toward fascism every year. They may call Romney and McCain RINOs but both are firmly right wing (not fascist).

[oldsoftie]

45. But thats the POV of a DEMOCRAT. Not a Republican.

Many here have criticized Joe Manchin for a lot of his positions; some even wondering if he'll switch sides. But to a republican, he's a liberal democrat. Perception of the opposition is always slanted. John McCain saved the ACA with his vote. A real right wing republican would have voted the other way. Romney voted against Trump 25% of the time. Not to mention impeachment. Hardly a true right wing politician.
Living where I live, I get to see the views of both sides expressed openly. And the majority of the time each views "their" side as ALWAYS being the ones to "give a little". When I see someone say Rep. Dan Crenshaw is "too liberal for me" i cant help but laugh at them.

[Bettie]

19. That's my thought too

I also hope that Biden doesn't really believe that they will suddenly have an epiphany and work with Democrats.

They. Won't.

ETA the rest of Mr. Bone's statement bold type mine for emphasis:

He said that Mr. Biden should press ahead with grand overhauls on issues like health care and income inequality rather than seek to appease Republicans.

“I find that there are a lot of people on the left who view the country through rose-colored glasses right now — that because Biden won and eked out a victory in the Senate, that somehow we’re on a path to bipartisan bliss, and it ain’t happening,” Mr. Bone said. “We’re in a bad place right now.”

[Iliyah]

10. In my . . .

opinion Mr. Bone is way off concerning Democrats and as usual doesn't get the "big tent" meme. Moderation has always been the cornerstone of the Democratic Party.

[3Hotdogs]

13. ---and moderation keeps things from getting worse.

It does nothing to improve things.

[OnDoutside]

28. Moderate v Centrist is probably a bigger question. It's entirely possible to be a strident Centrist,

and not be afraid to stand up for what you believe in.

[oldsoftie]

29. And really, examples of how to define that isnt hard to find, but it IS "fluid"

Many on the Left would say these are "Right", while many on the Right would consider these "Liberal"

If you believe in a woman's right to choose, but also believe there should be time limits.
If you believe in prison reform & also a reformed death penalty
If you believe in the rich paying more taxes, but EVERYONE paying SOMETHING
Etc Etc
All just MY opinion of course.

[KPN]

38. That's questionable as well. Moderation is and

has been a long slow slide that picks up speed — as it goes as well as in its effect — to the right since Nixon.

[KPN]

36. Always? Really? How do you define moderation?

[liberalhistorian]

55. Actually no, that isn't the case.

There was a time when Democratic leaders and representatives were not afraid to address social and economic issues and plowed ahead through and past the requisite Republican and Conserva-dem (i.e. chickenshit) whining and howling and hand-wringing and teeth-gnashing, and enacted policies that were of great benefit and those that remain, the ones that haven't been gutted, destroyed or rendered ineffective by Republicans, continue to be of benefit. Try to imagine what life would be like now without Medicare, Medicaid, social security, unemployment insurance, worker's compensation, OSHA, etc., etc., and realize that none of those policies just came to be on their own, Democratic leaders had to push past the vehement opposition of Republicans and the cowering of moderate Dems. Today's Dems need to do the same thing and quit moving to the right or center-right and quit appeasing republicans.

[Renew Deal]

11. The lessons from FDR and the results of the last couple decades show that Republican feelings

shouldn't be a concern for us. Feelings weren't a concern for them. Also, they have shown that they are completely incapable of running a functional government. Rand Paul is upset about being lumped in with white supremacist's? Good. He's been enabling them.

The stuff Biden has done so far is positive for the country. Republicans will criticize no matter what he does. Democrats should do what is right for the country and drag republicans into the modern world.

[crickets]

54. Well said. nt

[Squinch]

14. If only those elitist Republicans would try to understand the soul of America. You know,

those people who are the backbone of America. The ones who work for a living. You know, Democrats.

[58Sunliner]

16. This. Obama did not go after Bush and Cheney and we lost the midterms.

“Many of us voted to get Trump out, not necessarily to be pro-Biden,” said Nancy
MacEoin, 47, a criminal defense lawyer in Philadelphia. “Backing off any sort of prosecution of Trump is going to alienate those people.”

[Montauk6]

17. I totally agree with the 2 Rivers dude...

Meanwhile these weasels want to hide behind the 1st Amendment; these same heathens who are all pitchforks and nooses when it comes to wearing a "Hand Up Don't Shoot" shirt or kneeling during the National Anthem. GTFOH!

[Tommymac]

20. Book 'em all, Danno.

Anything else is a betrayal of Political AND ETHICAL trust.

History shows the Conservatives' agenda is a dead end of bigotry and inequality.

The only way to move to the center is to push a more progressive agenda, and boot the old white conservative MEN out of power.

Democrats ignore this lesson at their and Our Democracy's peril.

[flying_wahini]

22. I'm with you, TommyMac

Lead with the programs and policies that Americans need. We can’t wait on the Right to get it.
They won’t because They Have No Policies just platitudes for the people.


Lock every damn one of the Capitol invaders up.

[Loki Liesmith]

23. Last guy is wrong

Moderation has been and continues to be a wining strategy for Democrats.

[JI7]

26. Not going after him is NOT a moderate or centrist position , it's the MAGA Right Wing Position

[rickyhall]

30. It's simple, if they broke the law, prosecute them just like the rest of us.

Rule of Law, goddammit.

[gratuitous]

32. Whaaaa?

People elected Democrats to govern as Democrats, and not because they want Democrats to govern as Republicans? The deuce you say!

[KPN]

39. Wait. Accountability is Republican?

[Eyeball_Kid]

33. Are we forgetting that the GOP is the party of seditionists? That was only two weeks ago.

And the GOP is STILL protecting Trump and those who aided in an attempted coup.

It was a COUP, for Christ's sake! And the GOP was all-in! Does the outrage die off when the next TV commercial comes on?

Why are the Dems NOT accusing the GOP of sedition EVERY GOD DAMNED DAY? Has a government overthrow for a dictatorship lost its meaning?

What is wrong with this picture?

[spooky3]

35. Agree with every single one of them! Nt

[BComplex]

40. This article needs to go to our Democratic senators so they can feel strong in what they're

doing. We've been the abused spouse for so many years, that we've become timid. It's time to show the country that we're proud of our agenda, and that we'll fight for it!

[Oscarthegreat]

43. Those who don't learn from history

It's quite simple. If the Trump family, their enablers and the traitors who attacked the Capitol after being incited by Trump are not punished severely, there will be another coup, and this time the people behind it will be much smarter, more organized and much more competent, and it will succeed. We were extremely lucky that Trump and his awful children and lawyers are such morons

Now could be our last chance to ensure another coup doesn't happen. Cooperating with the Republicans and trusting MoscowMitch would be suicidal. it never worked in the past and will fail again if tried.

[roamer65]

44. Mr Bone is right on target.

[tecelote]

46. I'm so sick of hearing about how the Trumpsters feel.

It's about time the media focused on the rest of America.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. Joe Biden won both the primaries and the GE, overwhelmingly, because he was seen as a....

pragmatic moderate. Democrats had a choice between the far left & center left, and the center won. I, myself, couldn't be more thrilled. Just reading through the comments, I can see we're already setting ourselves up for threats of disengagement from some who claim to be allies.

I'm all for holding criminals to account, but we're starting off on the wrong foot if the defeated candidates think their issues take precedence over the winner. Biden/Harris 2024!!!!!!!!!!

[Turin_C3PO]

56. I've been a Biden supporter

since he announced his candidacy and I agree with every word of that article. Dems must use their power for good legislation plus the seditious Republicans must be held criminally liable for their actions. This isn't about left vs. moderate.

[Tarheel_Dem]

59. But I didn't vote for you or anyone named in "that article". I voted for Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr.

[BlueLucy]

62. I'm a moderate democrat.

I wanted Joe to run in 2016. This is not about center left vs left. This is about reality. Republicans can not be trusted in compromise. We are the only ones who will save democracy. We need a 911 style commission to investigate all of this and hold people accountable.

[Tarheel_Dem]

65. Where did I say they shouldn't be held to account? Can you point me to it? I'd surely like to...

correct that. Thanks in advance.

[BlueLucy]

66. I didn't say you did.

I was expressing my opinion.

[Tarheel_Dem]

67. Gee, Thanks.

[MyMission]

50. 60/40 versus 40/60

Either way that split amounts to a lot of people.

Our country is split, with 60% believing in democracy and 40% in autocracy and racism.

The NC county I live in (Madison Cawthorne is our new"representative" following Meadows) is split the other way. It sucks being part of the 40%. Every decade we get a candidate to run for sheriff, but mostly the rethug is running unopposed because...why bother? (My thought is we should still run candidates to challenge them, even knowing the odds of winning are slim to none.)

I'm glad to be part of a country that's 60/40 split in my favor. I'd rather the split be larger, but it is what it is. What I feel about being the minority in my county is frustration, disenfranchisement, and sorrow, to name a few emotions.

But this is where I live, and there are enough here who share my views that I don't feel alienated or alone, just unrepresented.

I imagine the conservative base feels the same with regard to national representation.
There are many who feel as they do, but not the majority. It sucks. Except that base is delusional, and many belong to fringe groups, evangelical churches, consume right wing media that enforces their beliefs that they are the majority, or have the moral obligation to impose their beliefs on our society. There are some who understand and accept how democracy works, look towards the next opportunity to compete and possibly win.

But too many right wing nuts are loud and self righteous and uncompromising, and now trending towards violence and insurrection, because they can only win by force!

In my county I really "hate" being the minority. But in my Country, I really love that I'm in the majority. So close and yet so far.

60/40 isn't a slim majority, but it's close enough to result in too many feeling they aren't being represented. As they've said to us, "you lost, get over it!"

But as most of us here at DU know, most of them want to be heard but don't want to listen, and instead want to silence or misrepresent; they want concessions but don't want to compromise.

Just sharing some thoughts and observations, and venting a bit. So grateful for DU.

[BarbD]

52. Truth and justice for all.

Nothing less.

[SunSeeker]

53. Finally, the voice of normal people. nt

[BobTheSubgenius]

57. I don't think there is much doubt AT ALL that the opinions of these people are right.

And they speak for millions of Americans, I bet. All that's needed to recognize the "high crimes and misdemeanours" are two things: a pulse and an IQ of at least room temperature.

When you think of the vast swath of Americans that don't meet even those minimal metrics, it's a wonder the country functions at all, let alone at superpower level.

[Hulk]

58. These are the people we need to hear from...

Not the delusional cult idiots. I really couldn't care less what those morons have to say.

[burrowowl]

60. Kick!