I'm getting a sinking feeling about these shootings

[senseandsensibility]

Last edited Wed Mar 17, 2021, 06:38 PM - Edit history (1)

I grew up on the West coast during the seventies. Serial killers ran rampant here then. There were so many that it was impossible to keep them straight. The Green River Killer, the Zodiac Killer, and Ted Bundy are just the most famous, but there were many others. What did the cases have in common? White males who killed women. Sometimes, the victims were prostitutes.

What I remember is the victims were always an after thought. First, they were women. Then they may not have been the right type of woman. But the killers were "charming", "intelligent" or 'troubled." It always seemed important to the media or the public to "understand" them.

We're already seeing this dynamic play out with this new case. And since the shooter says that the victims "tempted" him and he is a white male, this will be treated seriously as an extenuating circumstance. In addition, they were Asian. So all the more reason for the usual suspects to dehumanize the victims.

[LiberalLoner]

1. +1

[niyad]

2. Sadly, I fear you are quite correct. He was "tempted" at three different establishments? Must

have really wanted to be tempted!

[senseandsensibility]

21. I don't know if anyone else feels this way

but there just seems to be this constant effort to excuse or understand the killer if he is a white male. It's a very unfunny joke at this point.

[tulipsandroses]

3. Yup. This is why I posted earlier among other reasons why that press conference pissed me off

After being peppered with questions from the reporters about the women, Mayor Bottoms responded " We are not going victim shame or victim blame"

I am going to go out on a limb and say that if he has a sex addiction, then he probably spent a lot of time watching pornography as well.
Did you go after your internet provider? How about Google Without them, you can't watch porn.

Why is the target of your wrath women, and although he said it was not racially motivated, I am not buying it.

[wnylib]

9. I'm not buying the claim either, that it's not racial.

There are some racist men who find women of other races "exotic" or "alluring." It's connected to a belief that sex is part of a baser nature, so a woman from a so-called "inferior" background becomes especially desireable. This attitude is very well depicted in the film, Schindler's List, in the behavior of the concentration camp commander, Amon toward the Jewish woman, Helen, whom he keeps as a house servant and sex slave. He has conflicting lust-hate feelings toward her and blames it on her being Jewish.

[tulipsandroses]

18. The offensive term " yellow fever" comes to mind

All of these women are someone's daughter, mother, sister, friend, wife, girlfriend. There are people in mourning. Their lives shattered.
It is disgusting that the media and anyone else would dehumanize them.

[Mike 03]

4. These incidents are on my mind too.

It's important to keep a couple of things straight. These are mass shooters or (in this most recent case) an aborted spree killer (so far), not serial killers. I wouldn't be surprised if we do see a rash of serial killers coming out of the last few years into the near future.

Most women murdered by serial killers in the 70s were not prostitutes or sex workers. A large percentage were college students or women just going about their business.

The media didn't care about understanding sick people like Bittaker and Norris or the Hillside Stranglers or the Night Stalker or as you point out the literally dozens of serial killers operating in California, Oregon and Washington in the 70s, 80s and 90s. That does become more ubiquitous for some reason when the media gets its hands on a spree or mass shooter, a lot of times because people want to know what triggered the behavior.

[senseandsensibility]

5. You're right about the different types of killers

However, the media was insanely invested in "understanding" Bundy in particular. Some of the coverage was absolutely fawning.

[Mike 03]

7. Point taken. People couldn't understand why a guy "with so much going for him" would

do the things Bundy did. Also Bundy was a shameless self-promoter to the bitter end who loved being the center of attention and the FBI tried to use that to get him to reveal the location of the bodies of more of his victims.

There were also some really cynical people who loved the idea that Bundy was blaming pornography for turning him into a serial killer and they talked about him a lot.

I sometimes defend the media in these circumstances because they are asked by the FBI to flatter or string along uncaptured killers for various reasons to get them to slip up, feel overconfident or keep communicating with either the media or the lead investigators.

But your point is dead right. I am very worried about a number of different types of rising crime, especially the mass shooters and crimes that may be happening today that we don't yet know about. It just feels very unsettled right now, with a lot of angry people who have just had their online social communities ruptured (Q people and right wing fanatics) and just lost a major election. The more isolated those people become the more worried I get.

[senseandsensibility]

16. All good points.

You seem to have a background in this area.

[soldierant]

25. He was handsome and could speak in complete sentences.

There's a reason that the word "grammar" derives from the same root as "glamor."

[TigressDem]

35. Advanced characteristics for a knuckle dragger.

It seems there are people in society who keep trying to go BACK to cave man days and tactics.

Where being big enough to drag a woman off by the hair meant your seed would survive and people who looked like you would live.

I mean, yeah, dating is really complicated and hard to navigate for everyone, but there has to be a way forward rather than backward.

[maxsolomon]

6. "Understanding" the fucked-up motive (and modus operandi) is not sympathizing.

Or excusing. The tendency to focus on the murderer is human nature. If it wasn't, prurient "Murder Shows", where the details are hashed over ad nauseum, wouldn't be as popular as they are.

His excuses are not going to work in court, or in the Mediascape. But asking "why?" is normal.

[TigressDem]

36. True, but society has a fascination for these morbid deeds which makes killers feel the "FAME" of it

And it is human nature to do the "shock gawk" when someone acts out in an insane manner like this. It's like how people slow down at a car accident.

And "hopefully" knowing the "why" can lead to "how do we make this STOP?" answers.

Unfortunately there is NO "THE Media" anymore.
We have splintered factions and in the other reality show news, this guy may become a "hero" in the eyes of the Reich Wing.

[maxsolomon]

39. We know the Why and the How.

America is not going to do anything about it. That is abundantly clear. It will happen again and again, never exactly the same, but same enough.

Not sure the murderers achieve infamy any more. There's too many.

[TigressDem]

48. HOW we stop it. First as we are now - SHINE THE LIGHT on it so it is CLEARLY WHAT IT IS.

Now some people STILL won't see the TRUTH, but put the facts out there and don't back down.

It's RACISM.

It's HATE.

And a maladjusted creep getting off on both.

It's MURDER and those are the motives of MURDERER.


THEN WE KEEP PUSHING TO GET LAWS AND THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO PROSECUTE THESE creeps and PUT THEM AWAY or and this may never happen, but I say serial rapists lose the tool so it can't BE "just rape" anymore and serial killers get the death penalty. Anyone who feels they are so above and beyond the law that they can take life after life isn't fit to continue to add to the gene pool or even keep breathing. I am AGAINST the Death Penalty in most cases, but a person who will kill over and over again isn't salvageable.


A little old west, I know, but after a few years of examples set, these creeps might find another way to deal with their sickness. Maybe then they could be helped, but not in this climate where it is encouraged by idiots like the FPotus.

[maxsolomon]

49. In this case, yes, it is racism and hate that motivated.

But Adam Lanza? Jared Loughner? Seung-Hui Cho? Ian Lee Stawicki? None of those were motivated by Racism. All Schizophrenics with semi-automatic weapons.

There is no deterrent effect in prosecuting them; the others aren't listening to anyone but the voices in their heads.

[TigressDem]

50. Well, then door #3 it is.

Prosecute them, give them the death penalty and take those crazy genes out of the pool.

[Warpy]

8. Most men who view women with dread and loathing don't do anything about it

except send out vibes that chase all sensible women away--fast. They tend to live their lives seething with rage and seeking out the company of men in manly pursuits. If they do manage to con some sweet and simple minded young thing into bed, it won't last long since they'll despise her for it from the very beginning. Women are never human beings to them.

They're out there and we all know it and most of us avoid them.

Once in a while, one will buy a gun and start killing us. We're just lucky it's rarer than their overall numbers suggest.

Oh, and I don't buy his defense. Killing women because they are women is not a hate crime. He's trying to duck the killing Asian woman only aspect, like adding hate crime to 8 cold blooded murders will increase his sentence.

[iluvtennis]

10. The statement that it was about women and not racial came from the killer. Why should we believe

him.

This needs to be thoroughly investigated. I want to hear from the experts that it was a sex crime.

[TigressDem]

37. His personal delusions and blinders are about HIM not the laws that he broke.

RE: I want to hear from the experts that it was a sex crime.


Yeah, that would shorten his sentence because whenever you use your penis first, then it was somehow more justified...

At least if you look at how rape sentences are so much less than other types of violence.

[iluvtennis]

43. + agree.

[bucolic_frolic]

11. In my view forensic psychology receives far too little scrutiny in major crime coverage and outcomes

It's as if society keeps the mental experts, the PhD. criminologist consultants, under wraps.

But once you tick off borderline, sociopath or antisocial personality disorder, and run down the symptoms, it's pretty clear. They don't obey authority, they hate society, they don't respect the ordinary boundaries of other people.

America needs a deep dive into this stuff and a cease and desist to tabloid criminology pitched to dolts.

[johnthewoodworker]

12. The religious, Republican/Nazi, and white will lie about every crime they commit. Kill Asian women,

and deny it's hate. You have to be a real moron to believe that.

[whathehell]

24. "The religious" and 'Republican/Nazis" and "white"?..Huh?

It appears you are conflating "the religious" with "Republicans and Nazis" and then both groups with the "white" race, generally..I'm hoping this was the result of failing to write in clear and complete sentences, rather than bigoted intent, but you might want to confirm.

[LittleGirl]

13. He was a religious puppet!

He was shamed about sex and it made him a murderer.
He couldn’t murder just one, but everyone that made him desire sex!
It’s a fucking cult to brainwash these males with access to guns!

His parents knew he was evil and helped the police to find him.

He’s 21 so life in prison would be a suitable sentence. His pasty skin kept him alive.

I can’t believe he killed 8 people and was taken without incident.

[Evolve Dammit]

23. and the GA police spokesman said he had a really bad day. It's MURDER, FCS nt

[LittleGirl]

42. Absolutely! nt

[soryang]

14. South Korean media are reporting this alleged statement by the shooter at the Gold Spa

Link to tweet

[senseandsensibility]

17. This morning I saw on twitter

(I forget where now) a journalist tweeting that she needed Korean speaking journalists to help conduct interviews with the victims' families or the community. She seemed to be a fairly well known American journalist with a blue check mark. Anyway, I'm glad this is happening and the the media is finding a way to tell the victims' stories.

[soryang]

27. I saw that too

And i can see why.

[gab13by13]

15. Atlanta is a big city,

if the killer's motive wasn't racial, why did he go to 3 spas that employed Asian workers? Coincidence?

[iluvtennis]

44. No coincidence in my opinion. It was planned. nt

[lillypaddle]

19. I read and watch a lot of true crime

I share your sinking feeling. At least this one is off the streets. For now.

[senseandsensibility]

20. Absolutely.

So glad he was caught.

[Aussie105]

22. The media have made names of some mass murderers household names.

The names of victims though, are lost within minutes.

Ted Bundy? Sure, heard of him. His 30 victims? Faceless non-entities.

Timothy McVeigh? Same. Killed 168 people. Who were they?

Shame on the media, shame on the convoluted explanations and excuse making for the murderers.
Shame on the media for ignoring the lives lost and the grief of relatives and friends.

Australia is the same.

Ivan Milat, well known and infamous murderer of back packers around 1989, and still a subject of trash 'investigative' local TV programs.
The names of the 7 dead? Well, don't ask that revealing question.

[ripcord]

28. Things used to be different

Everyone at the time knew the name of Charles Manson but they also knew the names Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Abigail Folger, Wojtek Fryowski, Rosemary and Leno LaBianca.

[Corgigal]

26. Since when does the police

trust a word a criminal says? Is this a new thing? You might listen to them, but you don’t repeat their BS, you investigate.

So, my theory is that the Capt from the Cherokee Sheriff office understands that horrible sex drive of a youthful man, who was too lazy to compete in the biological game of matchmaking.
The Capt needs to leave law enforcement.

[senseandsensibility]

31. That's exactly it.

I was struggling to put it into words.

[Corgigal]

32. Worked in LEO 911 for several years.

Married to a retired traffic Homicide detective. Just audio booked Lt. Kenda, ID Homicide hunter fame, yesterday. I’m aware how the smart ones think.

This Capt wants to be his defense attorney. Not that any of that will help him.

[tulipsandroses]

34. Yup. Since when do you take the word of a murderer. You know who was having a bad day?

The 8 people that Robert Long killed and the loved ones they left behind.
The people who were cowering in fear as bullets rained down
The people who got calls from loved ones trapped in those spas

Maybe the Sheriff should do his job, make sure he has Korean translators to interview survivors and witnesses so they can talk about their bad day.

[malaise]

29. Great OP

Rec

[senseandsensibility]

30. Thanks.

When things like this happen I have to write something to get it out of my system. I wish there was something more proactive for me to do.

[malaise]

45. We do what we can

[I_UndergroundPanther]

33. We need a way to identify

Track and if nessesary remove sociopaths and abusive narcissists from society permanently.

They live to harm others and cannot be trusted with freedom ,sadly.

My dream situation is sociopaths and narcissists could be detected early or before birth so they could get into treatment or if nessesary,sequestered
and thier harmful traits made harmless before they kill or abuse others. If it's a brain issue that it could be fixed with meds or surgery and they grow up like people born with empathy.

[dlk]

38. The white male patriarchy discounts and minimizes women, especially women of color

When multiple women are pathologically hunted and executed, the news media too often paints a sympathetic picture of the perpetrator and glosses over the victims, as though they barely even matter. We have far to go for women’s equality as humans.

[senseandsensibility]

41. I think that's the sad truth.

We've made no progress since the seventies and may have regressed.

[dlk]

47. The backlash against women's equality is very real

In many ways, things are worse for women today.

[JCMach1]

40. The patriarcal, white, male, RW, religious misogyny connection will get completely

Pushed aside for either racism, or the sex addiction culture war narrative depending on where the media falls on the ideology spectrum.

[Whiskeytide]

46. It's at least partly because of the behavioral science used in ...

... the investigative process for serial killers more than a societal defect based on misogyny, I suspect. The people trying to catch them have to get inside their minds. The media reporting on the investigation naturally echos that approach, and the “mind of the serial killer” becomes a big part of the story.

The victims also have to be looked at for their commonality, which tends to homogenize them to a great extent. I don’t think they are “afterthoughts” as much as they are classified by “type” to help investigators track the killer down. It does dehumanize victims by processing out their individuality, but it’s more a part of the process than its goal.

And I’m not saying what you’ve said is necessarily wrong, but only that it might not be the whole story. Serial killers are a different breed. They are not driven by the usual motivations we think of with respect to killing their victims. But their MO usually fits a narrative that can be used to catch them if we “understand” them better. The fact that “the killers were "charming", "intelligent" or 'troubled" isn’t a compliment - it’s their profile.