I'm being bullied at work

[XanaDUer2]

I hope I can post this here. I want the widest group of opinions, since this is making me sick and I have no one to talk to about it other than my shrink.

I suffer from bipolar and extreme anxiety and depression. I work in a white-collar service industry. We have one workroom, where we all sit and you can see and hear each other. I am the oldest person at my location. The bully is a few years younger. I'm 55. The bully is the wife of a local politician. I was moved to the location to avoid stress at my previous location, due to constant violence and harassment by the public (not just me, other staff, esp female, also subjected to it). I've been out on FMLA twice here in 8.5 years, I am considering going out again. The work situation, aside from the bully, is very stressful anyway.

The first time I was formally introduced to the bully, she says in front of everyone, "Why are you here?". She has yelled at me in front of her boss (!). She has yelled at and gotten aggressive with other staff, but she really hates me. Her opinion is that I am not working hard enough. She will stand in the center of the workroom and announce that not everyone works hard there. I suspect she is negatively gossiping about me to other staff. I am pretty sure, however, they don't want to get involved with that, but they joke around with her other times. Maybe everyone is scared of her. The worst thing she ever did was, during an all-staff meeting with the director of our division, she raised her hand and announced that I and (insert other staff member) don't know enough about what was going on there. I cried publicly. She frankly, seems to be suffering from stress and anxiety herself, but I don't care at this point.

I have spoken to her boss a few times, and I like her boss very much. I believe she has spoken to her. However, she now has the attitude that I should confront this woman myself. I don't want to. My shrink says I have to protect myself and to document everything, including witnesses, from hereonin, and that I have to protect myself. I dread our meetings, not knowing what she'll say. This is really affecting my life.

Our personnel policy has an anti-bullying policy. This woman's MO, and her boss admitted she's passive-aggressive, is to make a pronouncement in the middle of the room like, "Some people don't work hard here." I am at a higher level than she is, and there are things I have to do that involve culling statistics, employee evaluation, etc. so I am doing at-my-desk things she, at a clerk level, is not responsible for.

I have never worked in such a toxic environment, but I was moved here and don't want to move again. I am getting to the point that if she is worse, I go to HR since I feel her boss does not want to deal with her. Her husband, the local pol, is awful a lot of the time, too. And I voted for this asshole twice.

More than this has happened, and this is just the highlights so you get the atmosphere. I wear earphones to keep her voice out; she;s extremely loud. I turn the music up high. I'm trying to ignore it, but it's triggering anxiety in me that I feel on days off. I miss a lot of work. Ignoring it may be making it worse.

I have a good working relationship with her boss, and I don't want to ruin it. I just don't know what to do. Friends who have quit but worked with her tell me she's crazy and a bully. Hope I get SSDI.

[msongs]

1. go to HR. tell them u are retaining legal counsel and do that nt

[hlthe2b]

7. I concur. Don't threaten. DO IT.

[calimary]

24. Yes from me as well. AFTER you write down some notes.

Document EVERYTHING.

Write it down. As much as possible. And as much as you can remember. You may need those details later. It WILL be helpful especially if there are many such incidents.

It would also be helpful in case you ever need to take or defend against legal action. You will have already started building a nice case in that eventuality. It also helps guard against forgetting stuff. It sounds like you have many incidents you can document. Try to remember as many specifics as possible, and when and where and duration of affront

[hlthe2b]

25. YES! MEMOS for the record. Who, What was said, When, Where, Why (context)

Include any conversations with co-workers that provide some contemporaneous validation.

[calimary]

33. This too. In case you need one or more witnesses.

Also, it establishes a pattern of offensive behavior. Others were there, saw it, heard it, overheard it, experienced the same kinds of pigheadedness themselves, commented to you about it, etc. more eyeballs and sets of ears brought in gives you more backing and validation. As in - “it ain’t just you” or “I’m not just making this up.”

[Blue_true]

80. Phones are excellent recording devices these days, not only audio, but video. nt

[Blue_true]

79. I agree. The organization should be forced to live up to it's stated policy. nt

[Aristus]

2. Thank you for confiding in us, XanaDUer2.

There's probably not much any of us can do to help this situation. But we can express our support, at least.

[XanaDUer2]

9. thank you

I'm glad I have this place

[Skittles]

3. crazy

You absolutely need to go to HR, her behavior is outrageous and sickening - and WTF is wrong with her boss? He needs to be reported also, for his failure to take action.

[XanaDUer2]

93. Thanks, Skittles

I think her boss either doesn't want to deal with her, is afraid, or doesn't want to have an adversarial relationship with her.

[thucythucy]

99. It could be the bully's husband has some clout with the company.

Just a guess, but that's what it sounds like to me.

All the advice here is good. Document everything! Send memos about the incidents to the company HR office. If you can afford it, consult an attorney.

In addition, if your medical issues are documented, you may have some coverage under the Americans with Disabilities Act. It's a long shot, but it's worth a look. If there's a Center for Independent Living in your area or relatively, give them a call and ask for advice. A note of caution: these days "independent living" has been coopted by chain nursing homes and such. An actual Center for Independent Living is a non-profit dedicated to providing supports for people with disabilities. They do NOT provide nursing home placements and such. You'll be able to tell the difference when you go to the particular website. They might be able to turn you on to a support group for people with bi-polar or other similar issues. This probably won't do anything to help with the bullying, but community is always a good thing in times like these.

I'm so sad to hear about your situation. All it takes is one bully to wreck a person's sense of well being and worth.

Good luck with this, and if you're up for it touch bases here on what's happening.

Best wishes.

[USALiberal]

4. Can you record some of this abuse? Legal in your state?

[Reader Rabbit]

28. This.

If it's legal to record another person without their consent in your state, do so ASAP.

[Deuxcents]

5. Bullies are cowards

That’s not a bumper sticker..it is the truth. Document. Document. Document. Date, time, any witnesses, brief description. Keep your earbuds on n smile while yo ur write. Take your document for the day with you when you leave your desk, go to lunch, etc. be discreet n tell no one your plan. A little notepad you can keep in your pocket or purse. This person will cross the line..they usually do n you’ll have your documents for her transfer or goodbye party. Hang in there. Breathe n keep your eye on the prize..the demise of this person from your workplace. Don’t cry! Be strong. I had a Union for 35 years of employment n that’s the lessons taught..you obviously are on your own. You can do it .. remember..the bigger they are, the harder they fall!

[XanaDUer2]

8. Thank you

Will do. Her husband can get even with me, though. I've never felt so powerless

[Deuxcents]

11. He may try

Keep your documents in a safe place..at home. If you feel powerless..you will be. I have a signature that I use a lot from a very strong woman who put up with more than we have..
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent”... Eleanor Roosevelt. Don’t give it to them. Or anyone. You will find empowerment by doing the best thing you can do..evidence.

[mcar]

41. If he does, file a harassment suit against him

and go to the media.

[XanaDUer2]

44. get this

our work Screensavers have him on them!!

[mcar]

46. What?

That is ridiculous. I see even more clearly why you are at your wit's end.

[XanaDUer2]

50. I'm surrounded nt

[gldstwmn]

67. Electronic evidence sounds like the way for you to go. Or a different job.

[Rorey]

6. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this

It sounds like sheer hell.

I wish I could give you good advice, but I could only say what *I* would do, and that's not helpful because I'm not in your shoes.

She sounds like an absolutely miserable person who steps on others in an effort to alleviate her own misery.

[MichMan]

10. Just quit and find another job

That is what I did 7 years ago when I was about the same age as you are

Isn't worth being in a toxic environment.

[niyad]

21. Easy to say, but. . .have you noticed what has happened to our economy in the last four years? In

particular, this last year?

[XanaDUer2]

29. due to financial reasons

like planning fmla, disability insurance thru work, plus very few jobs, my age, etc, it's not doable right now.

[niyad]

31. I rather figured that.

[XanaDUer2]

35. oops sorry

meant to reply to previous poster. But easier said than done. Need my benefits

[mcar]

43. This is the cruelest part

I lost my job in 2013 at age 53. I had more than 30 years experience in my profession.

I looked for work for more than a year and out of all the jobs I applied for, I got 2 interviews. No matter what, you cannot hide your age in applications.

[hamsterjill]

73. Singing my song

I’m 62, have been looking for a year after a layoff, and it’s been a joke.

[mcar]

84. My sis is a retired HR professional

I talked to her so many times during it. She said the same. All the automated applications are set up for weed people out - do you lie about when your earned your degree or what years you worked where? She said she never even saw so many applications that she stopped using those automated services (and she was the HR director for a large state agency).

I was relatively fortunate in that I could go contract. I don't make much money but I love what I do and SO is still working and getting us health insurance.

[hamsterjill]

85. It's truly absurd.

Yes, the typical question is either when did you graduate from high school, or what years did you attend college. It’s not even subtle. Plus, you wind up registering on every website known to man. I’ve already received one letter from a state agency indicating that information job applicants supplied may have been compromised. I refuse to put my social security number even though it’s requested all the time. They can have that when I’m seriously being considered. That probably eliminates me a lot of the time, but you can’t risk it.

The process is just stupid. It’s taking a human being and diminishing that person to a few key words on a grid. The hiring managers are missing out on some talented candidates by not just TALKING to some people.

Glad you’ve found something that works for you and here’s hoping I do the same at some point.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. Document everything as you go.

[IcyPeas]

13. In my experience HR won't do anything.

I had a somewhat similar experience at a law firm where I worked. After I finally quit after 8 years I kicked myself for not quitting sooner. It's not worth it.

[XanaDUer2]

14. Her husband is a local big wig

with lots of power and influence. I'm screwed. This is why she can say what she wants

[Blue_true]

81. Listen. You ARE NOT SCREWED.

You have legal rights. Even if you have to use an out of town attorney, defend your rights. A good attorney will tell you whether you have a good case right off the bat, during a free consultation.

Don’t go to personnel without an attorney, let them know that you are dead serious about protecting your emotional health and rights.

It is the bully who should be afraid, not you.

[Mr.Bill]

20. HR is there to protect the company, not the employees.

That's why the OP needs to lawyer up. That's a threat to the company and HR will react to that.

[CaptainTruth]

34. I will agree with this. "Hostile work environment" is a real thing.

You have to document everything to make a case though. Keep a journal or log. Record the bullying (audio on your phone or small digital recorder, if that's legal). Document as much as you can.

Good luck!!!

[BradAllison]

86. Yup, speak their language

When the company realizes Bully is a problem for the company, they will be forced to take Xana's side.

[Dorian Gray]

94. Yes... that's usually true

HR is mostly there to protect the company, not the staff. It sucks.

[Eko]

15. If you want to stay

document every encounter you have with her that is wrong, make sure to write down the dates, time and witnesses as well as what she said. Do this until you have a good bit of information then go to your boss, show them what you have and that you want to talk to HR about this. If your boss doesn't help facilitate this then go to their boss. If nothing happens go straight to HR.

[Hortensis]

16. You've gotten more responsible advice than I might have expected

on a political forum. It's not always balanced or sensible, so be careful.

That said, my own input is good luck trying to force change on the culture of this workplace. You said the bully is the wife of a local politician -- think power center. It's not right, but... You might have more success learning from a professional how to alter your own behavior to make you an unsatisfying victim, at least most of the time. Your description reminds me of a coworker I'm sure was a sociopath/psychopath. They're far from rare, you know, at least 1 in 20 or so, and HR has not gotten rid of this troublemaker.

[CoopersDad]

17. I was "relieved of my contract renewal" at the mere request of a meeting with HR to talk.

to talk about my supervisor.

In hindsight, I should have known better. Pecking order.

[Under The Radar]

18. Document everything, record where possible and trust no one

Do not depend on the courage of others to stand up for you against the bully. If those heros existed then they would have already stood up to the bully.
Know the law, know your work regulations and most importantly do not report this to someone that will not act on it and you better have proof.

[Maraya1969]

19. I'm glad you posted here too and I like the suggestions about documentation and

getting a lawyer. Tell HR you are going to sue the company if someone is not done about this woman.

If that doesn't work I have done something that worked with a person that was bullying me. She would say mean things to me and about me in front of other people. I figured out what would be hurtful to her and die the same thing back - one time. And that was the end of it. She shut up and never said anything like that again.

I think it is entirely appropriate to give someone a little of their own medicine sometimes. Let them experience it.

Things will get better - You have friend here!

[mahina]

22. Good luck. Just so you know, SSDI takes two years without any income

Most cases. pretty hard for most people to manage

Pretty much everybody gets turn down the first hearing a year or so in and then it’s another year for appeal

If you can get a copy of Getting To Yes There are tons of great tips in there. There are summaries online

When you’re criticized make it an opportunity to clarify the criteria for work out put you know? try to make it not about you and look for objective criteria. It’ll make the whole organization stronger and if you come from that approach you’ll be perceived as the more mature incredible person too.

I keep this on my fridge:

Problem: positional bargaining: which games did you play?
Soft: percent participants are friends the goal is agreement. Hard: participants are adversaries, the goal is victory
Or change the game and negotiate in the merits not on emotion

Instead if hard or soft be Principled: Participants are problem solvers in the goal is a wise outcome reached efficiently and amicably

Separate the people from the problem.

Focus on interest, not positions.
Invent options for mutual gain.
Insist on using objective criteria instead of her feelings in the moment

Reason to be open to reason; yield to principle not pressure

[XanaDUer2]

27. One of the reasons I need to keep the job

is my hope to take fmla again and use my short term disability insurance. I'll prob have to get a lawyer to get them to pay, then go out on LTD leave so I have money coming in while appealing

[mahina]

59. If you come to your boss with a copy of the book for her or him

After you read it of course and you have your own copy which are available really cheap used, you’re a problem solver rather than just a crisis that demands time and focus from your boss to solve, It will strengthen you in his or her eyes and in fact

Share it with him or her and ask him if you think it is a good idea for you to focus on clarifying the criteria if in fact you’re not working hard enough you definitely want to know what you can do better and look for ways you can improve


But if the criteria are not defined and it’s just ambiguous it’s not helping the org

You just went from being a problem to being an asset, from Rescue me from this mean person ( I understand she is mean) to, here is an opportunity to help us be better workers. Thinking about the organization’s benefit. That makes you an asset to protect.
Good luck!
/
- Hope you can figure out any typos, running.

[niyad]

23. Others have offered you some very good advice, and I hope it helps. I am glad that you know

you have support and caring here. You might also want to contact your state labor board. The one here was very helpful with a friend's situation two years ago. Actually forced her company to change its policies.

Hugggggggs

[Buckeye_Democrat]

26. There was a woman like that at my previous job.

I was warned about her repeatedly during my training, and I downplayed it because I can get along with almost anyone. Well, I was wrong. There was no pleasing her. She never apologized for her own shortcomings, but always kept her focus on criticizing others.

I finally noticed that she liked one of the production workers, but he was similarly always judgmental.

What amazed me were the past stories about her, and that she was never fired for them. Our boss was terrified of her. She had supposedly even banged on his locked office door and demanded that he come out to talk to her immediately, while also calling him a coward.

So pretty much everyone there just accepted that she was untouchable for whatever reason. She had lots of seniority, having worked there for over 25 years since she graduated from high school, so that probably explained it. (And her experience was very helpful at times, with her recognizing an unusual problem that hadn't been observed in several years. It didn't happen often, but I'll give credit where it's due.)

If she ever loses that job, she'll likely get fired very fast elsewhere.

By the way, sorry about your situation! If complaints don't help you, you might want to quietly seek employment elsewhere.

[luckone]

30. the middle of the room like, "Some people don't work hard here." I am at a higher level than she is

Well then I would reply “and some people waste time standing up in the middle of the room to talk about it “
maybe her boss is hoping you can shut her down
if you are higher up than her and her boss gets along with you why should you leave or care ?
maybe consider the woman a pest you need to shoo away like a flea or fly in the office I would not give her much space in your head

You know what’s coming in the meetings with her so expect her asshole appearance but don’t let some clerk color your day

[XanaDUer2]

32. Thanks

I'm trying but due to some emotional issues, I have a hard time

[luckone]

36. Take care

[seta1950]

49. I'm sorry

I know it is very hard to deal with someone bent on being mean to you I’ve been there.

[TygrBright]

37. Document, document, document.

In two forms, if possible. Keep a notebook, and email or text message yourself.

Date and time. Subject of interaction/context. Names of others present, if any. Verbatim, if possible, what the bully said/did. Verbatim, if possible, your response, if any (and keep your responses to the bully as minimal as possible.)

Facts only, not necessarily your interpretation or how it made you feel.

Also include in this documentation any interactions you have with the bully's supervisor, and with HR, and their responses to any written or other requests for relief.

Keep this record, and, as others have suggested, seek legal counsel. Many firms will extend you an hour or so of exploratory time at no charge. Find one that specializes in workplace issues, if you can.

Your documentation will make it more likely they will consent to represent you.

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. I will hold you in my heart for strength and serentiy.

diffidently,
Bright

[BobTheSubgenius]

38. As there are 41 states, plus DC, that are one-party consent states,

there is obviously a very good chance that you live in one. You could "talk" to her on the phone and see if you can capture her awful nature in a recording, or perhaps carry your phone in record mode in the more general setting. My knowledge of the law in that area is fuzzier, and it may vary quite a bit from state to state.

In the face of actual hard evidence, HR will be forced into doing something concrete about her, or get prepared to write you a fat cheque. It doesn't sound like any kind of "dispute resolution" between the two of you will do much good.

[XanaDUer2]

39. I think her boss is at a loss

frankly. This woman has bumped heads with other staff, but the woman is connected so she's probably a bit scared of her

[Blue_true]

83. She should not go to HR without an attorney.

HR departments don’t protect employees unless there is a lawsuit coming from the employees.

Companies like to talk about their HR department and their open door policies, it is largely PR garbage, all they are interested in is covering their asses, if that means screwing an employee who has been or is being victimized, they will do it in a New York minute, if the employee doesn’t fight back.

[BobTheSubgenius]

103. That is quite distressing.

And a damned good argument for unions.

[Blue_true]

104. Yes, it is. nt

[mcar]

40. Document everything, go to HR

Retain a lawyer. I'd give them one chance to rectify the situation before I sued them, but that's me. Make sure you have copies of all your positive performance reviews.

You also may want to get a letter from your physician documenting the symptoms of the stress you are experiencing.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I will never understand what is wrong with some people.

[JI7]

42. Is everyone there afraid of the local politician ?

It seems like her boss agrees and sympathizes with you but is too scared to do anything .

[XanaDUer2]

47. yes, he's on our work screensavers

I feel surrounded. He has a special interest in our division, too, funding wise. He's bragged to me, bumped up against me, told me he made the director buy something, it's a nightmare. Thus my taking fmla

[Tetrachloride]

45. 1. LAWYER FIRST. Get a phone number and call in the morning FROM OUTSIDE the company.

1a. never contact the lawyer while you are on company property.
1b. if you have no time, ask a friend to find a lawyer for you.
2. You are now on the winning attitude. You are the one in control but they don't know it.
2a.This is the midpoint of the movie.
3. To help you with your acting skills, buy some jerky or other slow moving snack. When someone starts hassling you, pull out a stick to chew on. This will give you something to do while you charmingly smile and go back to work.
4. Ask the person to repeat themselves if you feel like it. "Can you clarify what you mean" ? "What is job title, exactly ?" "How long have you been working here.?" "Are you the boss of me ?"
5. Then write all these things down in your diary when you are on an official work break.
6. If you are a certain age, the person may be guilty of elder abuse.
7. If you are officially diagnosed of a certain disability and that HR is aware of this, this is a big one.
8. Every day, your lawyer should be getting updates.
9. Discuss with your lawyer what your options are and how to leave the company.
10. Let your lawyer do the talking to HR.

that's my opinion.

The Situation:

A. HR is not on your side, because they are trying to minimize their losses.

B. the odds are that HR already knows.

C. millions of people are your side. Millions.

D. If this company has federal government contracts, all the better.

E. Time is on your side. No need to rush. The bully wants you to rush to what they say.

[Tetrachloride]

52. Buy some mirror sunglasses.

[ShazzieB]

48. I don't have any suggestions not already mentioned here, except

I would like to strongly encourage you ro send this to Alison Green at Ask a Manager (https://www.askamanager.org/).

Ask a Manager is a workplace advice blog, and Alison, the woman who runs it, is absolutely brilliant. She has advised people on just about anything workplace-related you can imagine, including workplace bullying, rooted in years of experience as a manager and a solid knowledge of workplace norms and related laws. The commentariat there is fantastic, too.

The site strives to be non-political, but the overall tone skews to the left and is very inclusive and welcoming. Ableism is not tolerated at AAM, nor is racism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia of any kind. It's one of my favorite places to hang out online, other than DU.

Before anyone asks, no, I am NOT getting paid to promote AAM! I just happen to love the site and admire its owner that much. Please at least consider visiting AAM (link above) and have a look around. Browse the archives or use the search box provided to search for specific topics, like bullying. That will give you an idea of Alison's approach and the way the comnentariat functions.

Sorry to run on for so long. Good luck with your situation. That bully sounds horrendous.

[Beastly Boy]

51. Great advice so far. The only thing I can add is there is strength in numbers.

You mentioned that the bully is abusive to your co-workers as well. Each one of you, by yourselves, may feel alone and powerless confronting the bully or complaining to the higher-ups. But if you can get together and petition her boss as a group, not only will you have each other's back, not only will you establish a pattern of abuse, you will multiply the effect of your actions. As one DUer already mentioned, bullies are cowards. They usually pick on the weakest individuals at their most vulnerable moments. But I assure you, a bully will be too scared to confront you as a group.

[XanaDUer2]

53. thanks, bizarrely I think due to her connections

she gets a pass. She did apologize to the guy she got into it with last week. So, she yucks it up with other staff. It's a bizarre situation

[Throck]

54. Put the complaint in writing to HR.

It puts them on notice if things escalate. It also documents the abuse should It go to a lawsuit.

We had abusive management running my office years ago. It stopped cold when HR got some well thought out letters.

[ancianita]

55. Definitely go to HR. Document everything they say and do. If it doesn't stop, report your

boss and HR to the EEOC and get a lawyer, because they will. Perhaps the EEOC will get you a pro bono lawyer.

Your documentation is better evidence than their undocumented so-called attempts to de-toxify your workplace. You might even get other people to sign on as witnesses.

You've paid for therapy, more proof of the harm your job has done. The financial and psychological costs of a win mean you can sue for damages. This is a fight that will improve the lives of many where you work, and you will be respected and thanked for it.

I hope you can fix this without quitting. You might even be promoted to their level because you've improved productivity and work climate.

I'm in your corner and think you can come out on top in the end.

[PatrickforB]

56. Lawyer up. Go to HR. IN that order.

And, next time the lady bullies you in public, enter into the bad scene. Play it out.

She will say something. You stand up, look at her and say loudly, "Now why would you say something like that to me? What gives you the right? Help me understand how it is you think you have the right to act like my supervisor and call me out in front of all these people. I don't like it very much, and I don't have to. I have gone to HR and have hired legal counsel. Stop bullying me at once!"

That's what I would do, I think, were I in your place.

Good luck!

[phylny]

77. I like this advice, as it's the same I gave to our oldest daughter when she was being bullied by a

girl in Kindergarten.

"Why would you say something so mean to me?"

It stopped the bully in her tracks and the problem vanished.

So practice it until it rolls off your tongue:

Why are you talking about me?
Why would you say such a nasty thing to me?
Why are you wasting time talking about me?

Whatever fits, say it, and stare at her.

[Yavin4]

57. I sympathize with you.

I put up with more than my fair share of bullying at the workplace over my career. I just left my position back in January to finish out my Master's degree in Data Science.

Go to HR and lodge a formal complaint with documented evidence.

[Dan]

58. I didn't read all the post yet, but simple solution.

..do you have a cell phone with Camera and recording ability?

Record the occurrences of her bullying you.... (in open view)

Record when you choose to go to HR (before the meeting - and immediately afterwards, cause HR won’t let you record the meeting), and highlight what occurred during your meeting with HR, Time, What was stated, etc.

Record when you talk to your supervisor and hers, (see above for documenting)...

Continue to record her bullying you - and maybe in front on witnesses (and your favorite recording device) ask her to quit, very nicely, never get mad.

Finally, when you had enough - visit your lawyer and your doctors statement about the stress you’re under...

My thoughts.

[Liberal In Texas]

60. She had better find out what the policy is on recording conversations etc. in the company.

The one I worked for had one. If caught recording any conversations between staff (especially supervisors or managers) it was grounds for immediate dismissal.

[58Sunliner]

61. So sorry that you are having to deal with this. First thing-talk to a lawyer. Maybe more than one.

Everyone has given good suggestions, especially the actions to document everything, even past events to the best of your ability. Be as specific as possible. It will also help you put it into context. The poster above who suggested that you be careful when you document, who you talk to, etc... is right. Make the bully be specific and get her on record. The boss may like you and you may like them, but that boss is actually part of the problem. Tell no one you are seeking counsel, or documenting or considering disability. It is an adversarial situation and you are the only one looking out for you.Take care of yourself.

[whistler162]

62. record the harassment

[IzzaNuDay]

63. I feel for you

I went through the same thing, and the manager was hired by a friend. I decided to quit- just walked out.

When people tell you that HR is there to protect the company, they are right. I went to HR with documents in hand, nothing was done A second person was bullied by this manager, the person went to HR, and HR defined the behavior was not bullying.

You received some excellent advice: document, document, document.

Also do not hesitate to call the manager out on her behavior. Ask, "Why are you talking like this to me?" and give her firm eye contact (Like don't mess with me). Do. It. Every. Time. And remember the witnesses when it happened. (Practice in a mirror until you are ready to confront her)

You had friends that worked for her? Then you have more than a case to file with an attorney. This one has a track record.

Last but not least, practice SELF CARE. Every. Day. You are important and this is very stressful. The last thing you need right now is a stress-related illness. I hope you have something you can look forward to when you are home from work. Take care and I wish you the best!

[Siwsan]

64. I retired 3 years early, to escape a bully

She bullied everyone in the department, and beyond, but had a special hatred for me. We'd report her, but it did no good. She was in some sort of legal situation with the company over an 'unjust dismissal' claim. Nobody but her and HR know the details but the company had to bring her back, because of the ham handed way she was fired, and nobody wanted to go through that, again. They kept moving her around the company, and the same problems surfaced, everywhere she went.

The last 3 years I worked, I was dealing with multiple family health crises, and she took that as an opportunity to double down on her bullying, not even taking a break when I lost my sister and mother, just 3 weeks apart. She also also offered not one word of condolence after either death.

When I turned in my letter of intent to retire, the Director of HR asked me if there was anything they could do to change my mind. I told them, sure. Fire the bully. The look on his face said it all. So, I shrugged my shoulders, and at my exit interview, I unloaded years of frustration built up from dealing with this bully.

The funny end to the situation is, a year after I retired, my previous department was in a mess and they asked me to come back for 3 months to help them clear up a backlog of work. I told them the ONLY way I'd do that is if they guarantee me that I will have no contact with this person, and she was to be advised to not even look in my direction. And, they did. And she was pissed. A few days after I came back, a number of things 'disappeared' from my cubicle, and she had been seen lurking in the area, after I'd left for the day. (They had actually given me a cubicle in a completely different department's area, so she had no reason to be anywhere near my work area.) Maintenance came up and put new locks on everything, and I carried on.

[raccoon]

65. Sorry to hear that. BTDT. It's amazing how so many people

Get away with such assholery in the workplace. But they do.

Best to you! Some good suggestions here.

[gldstwmn]

66. Cell phones can record everything these days.

I had a co worker who had a camera that looked like a charger plugged into her computer. She liked to spread gossip. I regretted not going to HR since I once caught her spreading gossip about me to co workers.
I know you like her boss but it is extremely unprofessional for that person not to handle their business.

[Delmette2.0]

68. There is great advice all through this OP.

Since you are also dealing with a local politician, when you go to the first interview with a lawyer, do not tell her the advice you have gotten here. Just wait to see if her advice is the same. This includes sending a copy of your email after every experience with the bully. (Keep all of your sent copies.)

A lawyer is not vocal about their politics and you do not want to be sidelined by one of the donors to the husband.

My memory fails me right now but are websites that can show you who donates to elected officials.

Best of luck to you. Many of us will be watching for progress reports.

[Soph0571]

69. Get a lawyer

Not sure what you would call it in the US - in the UK, if you need to leave because of others behaviour forcing you out - you can claim constructive dismissal

Do you have the strength to challenge her behaviour and ask her to stop? If not, don't worry that is HR's job. Make it formal and document everything. She sounds horrible and it sounds like your employers have not protected you at all - spend $50 for a letter. I would do it for you, but I am not across employee rights in the US.

[Warpy]

70. Think carefully about SSDI, it doesn't pay much, bullying Republicans think disabled people will

go out, get jobs, and work hard if they're starving.

Your shrink gave you good advice, documentation plus the words "creating a hostile work environment" will go a lot farther than simply complaining about a heinous, loudmouthed bully.

My guess is that you've got a good work record and the bosses like you and her productiveness is shit because she's spending too much time screeching at everybody else.

Your shrink is right, document, go to HR, and get some action. Somebody in that office has a big problem, and this time it's not you.

[catbyte]

71. If your state allows secret recording, I'd do that. If not, pull out a recorder or your phone &

say you're recording everything. Perhaps telling her you're recording everything is the better way to go anyway. If her husband is a politician, he might not want the bad publicity and she'll tone it down. It can't be more stressful than what you're going through now. It would be a shame if she drove you from your job, but you need to take care of yourself first. Good luck.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

72. Seems to me given your job requirements

you don't really have time to write out at length the rantings of this woman who no doubt has an abusive personality. Because the best way to write it out is as it is happening or in short order there after. As time passes you lose information. However there is the old office tool known as the hand held recorder ,been around a long time. The devices are not expensive and have a wide range.. Get one ,use it to record her rantings and abuse.
Write down her hand gestures and facial expressions along with outstanding aspects of what goes down . Of course tell no one in the office you have and use the device. Small and easy to conceal. After you have at least an hour or more of her rantings over time ,make a copy of what you accumulated. I really do not think that womens husband has the kind of power and pull you think he has. I am therefore saying she operates as and abusive person through a fear base ,this makes her feel powerful. She does not have all the power, clearly the operational mode is sociopathic. Play the recordings for your shrink ,for sure yer shrink will agree with what I am getting at. How to use the recordings is somewhat complicated as you can imagine, but without the recordings you got nothing as no others in the office will be willing to make waves for fear of loss of job. And hear say doesn't go very far. You got it right saying you voted for the ass hole twice, remember he married an ass hole too. Two ass holes equals squat and that is the extent of that power base you fear-,it is squat.

And squat is exactly what they will both do when confronted with it. Bottom line , her boss really must confront the issues, ostrich syndrome is no way to hide from a problem. But you must also confront it. You can experiment with the device at home , lots of ways to hide it.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/shop/handheld-voice-recorders

[Cafe Cat]

74. I feel for you. I've been bullied in a couple of my jobs. This thread

is a goldmine of resources and compassion, shortcuts and advice. I can't really add anything that hasn't been said and said well. Except *this*---

[Oneironaut]

75. Imho, she's the problem, sure, but that sounds like a shitty place to work overall.

Your boss says it's your problem? Ummm... This is exactly the type of thing your boss should be helping with.

Can you maybe look for another job? Reach out to recruiters? If you go to HR, they most likely won't give a shit (HR is there to protect the company and prevent lawsuits). I would seriously consider it for your mental health.

PS - Her boss sounds like a timid idiot, or just doesn't care. Seems like a common trend at your company.

[Ilsa]

76. 2 approaches: 1.You may need to fight dirty with her, but it's risky.

Frame her for something small that gradually turns people against her. Convince others she is badmouthing them. Maybe you can get people to stop cooperating with her so she becomes ineffective.

2. Just the opposite: try to get management to move her to another "more important" job away from your group.

3. Break her legs. (Just kidding.)

I'm sorry I'm not much help. I personally don't always trust HR to handle problems vs looking for ways to fire the victim. Maybe you need to show her that you are pulling your weight, no matter what she says. I hope you can hang in long enough to see her get canned and humiliated. It's a shame management has let this go on for so long vs letting her establish a pattern of accepted abusive behavior.

[megapuzzler]

78. How I handled a bully in the workplace

Many decades ago I took a job during college that had me working with several older women that seemed kind of hard-boiled and rather intimidated me. One of them decided I was fresh meat and set out to make my work life hell. It got to the point that when I'd go in to work I'd look to see if she was working that day, and if she was, I'd get chills and nausea as I tried to figure out how I could stay out of her way. I needed the money, jobs were scarce, and there was no such thing as HR there.

After weeks of this, one of the other tough cookies who worked there took me aside and patted me on the arm as she told me the bully had singled her out, too, when she'd first started but she'd soon put an end to that! I asked her how? She said bullies don't like to be laughed at, so just pick someone to laugh with at her the next time she pulled something.

Not much later, I was in the laundry room with my new favorite tough cookie when the bully came in to give me a hard time. Summoning all the acting skills I could muster, I rolled my eyes and snorted and exchanged a smirk with my sympathetic co-worker. Bully looked surprised and left. She tried her shtick on me a few more times, and each time I managed to have a co-worker nearby that I could at least pretend to laugh with, as if the bully was just ridiculous.

A few days later Bully asked to speak with me privately so we went down to an unused lounge area. She started weeping and said she didn't know why she had been so mean to me but she was sorry and could we be friends now? I was completely gobsmacked but said sure, and she should probably try to be nicer to newbies in the future.

Sometimes it's hard to stand up to bullies either verbally or physically, although that will shut them down the quickest. But one thing they really, really hate is to think others are laughing at them, so if you can gather up some other co-workers to at least smirk knowingly at each other and with you while your bully is spewing her vitriole, I'll think you'll be surprised.

BTW, I'm not new here at DU. Was here starting with the W years and stopped coming when the orange one got in, as I knew my anger at him would not be good for my health so stuck with headlines only for four years. Came back and have been lurking since November 3rd, but your post compelled me to sign in again with a new user name (used to be dalaigh lllama). Really hope this helps you.

[Brother Buzz]

88. EarlG can help you reactivate your old account if you reach out to him here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=ata

If you can't be bothered, and you're fine with the name change, that's totally cool too. Either way, welcome back to the fold!

[megapuzzler]

101. thanks for the heads up and welcome back

I'm okay with my new moniker tho.

[NNadir]

102. That's a wonderful story.

[hamsterjill]

82. I worked for a woman who I truly believe is mentally ill.

A friend of hers told me she believed the woman had a form of Asperger’s. The woman was highly intelligent but just plain mean and ugly to people.

Everyone knew it. But she is the daughter of the founder of the company and going to HR was not an option. Eventually, she did away with HR. I’m serious.

Since leaving that job, I’ve had many people in the same industry come to me and say they know how she is. But she’s very wealthy, so she always gets a pass.

It was a very bad time of my life and that stress will eat you alive.

As others have said, document everything. Make a plan in writing of how you’re going to get yourself out of there. Read it every day and do everything you can to do it as fast as you can.

I’m sorry for you having to endure this. It’s very hard. Hang in there.

[LuckyCharms]

87. Do this when others are within earshot.

Wait for her to direct a particularly egregious comment toward you.

Wait for her to finish. Keep a neutral expression while she carries on.

When she is done. Smile slightly and approach her. Look into her eyes while you approach.

Stop about two feet away from her, while continuing to look into her eyes.

Lose your smile. Maintain a neutral expression.

In a calm and measured voice, say "I will not be spoken to this way by you. This is not the first time this has happened, but is most certainly the last time. Since you have been commenting to me in this manner, I have been maintaining impeccable documentation of what was said, and this documentation is in my lawyer's possession. I have been told that I have a strong case for workplace harassment, but I have not yet formally taken action. The next time this happens, I will take action. I hope I am making myself clear to you".

Even if not much of that is true, it will surely scare the crap out of her, because that is how bullies are. If it does indeed happen again, I would start maintaining documentation both electronically and in writing. Gather some documentation, and then actually go see a lawyer.

It's not important whether you actually have retained counsel or not when you say this to her...it is only important that she thinks that you have. Truth be told, and based on what I have seen, cases like this MAY be somewhat difficult to win in court, with or without documentation.

So, take matters into your own hands. Bullies can be played easily, because they are weak.

Everyone here is probably going to disagree with this approach, and you may want to listen carefully to their objections. I'm just telling you what I would do in this situation personally. As others have said, HR is useless. They will not protect you. Building a good legal case is a lot of work and angst, with a low probability of success in my opinion.

She's nobody special. She is not better than you. Back her down and smile while doing it.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

89. Narcissists live to make others suffer

We gotta do something to contain these narcissists and keep them away from any power or pretense of power. These abusive people are a plague.

[Patterson]

90. You'll probably need a lawyer to get SSDI. See if the same one can help you with this.

[XanaDUer2]

92. I've got a disability lawyrt

I don't think he can help me with this. I will be happy to just get out of here

[Meowmee]

91. Wow so sorry

Hugs to you. Definitely go to hr, document everything, get a lawyer if you can. Other people are probably disturbed by her as well I am sure.

[Dorian Gray]

95. My best and most realistic advice:

This is a difficult situation, and it sounds like her boss doesn't want to do much here. And, honestly, HR is in the position where it will want to protect the company over the staff, so there isn't much you can do there.

Negative people and bullies are difficult to challenge, especially if you want to keep your head down. But there is a way in which I've had some success.

Open ended questions to the negativity/behavior can help. For instance, when she's ranting, a gentle but warm: "Can you tell me why you're so unhappy" or "What makes you feel that way?" can do wonders. Or taking her aside and asking her point blank: "You seem to think people aren't doing there share, and I feel like it's directed at me. Would you share with me what you think i'm not doing?"

People have difficulty with direct questions/statements, and it can lower the temperature. And if she knows you may pipe in when she "rants," she may rant a hell of a lot less.

But, before attempting this, practice doing it in a mirror. Calmly. With a smile. Don't rise to an angry confrontation, because that escalates the toxicity and will make her feel justified.

Good luck!

[GreenEyedLefty]

96. Great advice here, only one thing to add:

Email your documentation to your personal (external) email address.

This woman is enjoying the power she has over you and the damage she is doing. She knows it's just a matter of time before you leave. This ain't her first rodeo. I know this is hard. Hang in there. Document. Ask for a meeting with HR and tell them you will no longer tolerate continued harassment in violation of company policy. Call an attorney and ask for a free consultation. Most will give you up to 30 minutes. That is plenty of time to determine whether or not you have a case, also they can give you some good advice on how best to document.

[EndlessWire]

97. I am concerned

about your history of receiving differential treatment from the company. They moved you once to help you out. The next help will be out the door to unemployment.

Does this bully know your medical history? Does she know why you were originally moved? For all you know, they are letting her loose on you to get you to quit. You have a weak position because this company can point to their attempt to reasonably accommodate your disability. They can fire you for missing a lot of work.

Certainly, document everything she says to you with what she said, time and date. You'll need this for a lawsuit. But, I wouldn't threaten them with a lawsuit. They will double down on getting you to quit and wash their hands of you. Instead, tell this bully that you are considering suing HER if she doesn't quit. Smile at her while saying this. Let her see you writing stuff down. But, keep on working your job.

Make sure your medical records reflect your extreme distress due to this hostile work environment which your boss has allowed. You will need this in any event, so set it up right with the honest reasons you are in distress.

It sounds to me that you would settle for some income that would allow you to retire early. If you have worked long enough to get anywhere near the line, go to HR and find out if you can retire early. Then, you can reasonably tell them what's going on and that you need a solution.

Check into unemployment and what your state considers a valid reason to quit and still receive unemployment benefits. Many years ago, I quit a job because I worked in an environment where smoking was allowed, and I am allergic to cigarette smoke. I had to go to a hearing, but they lost, and I received benefits. (Do a deep analysis of case law and educate yourself.)

The bully herself is in distress. Perhaps her marriage is falling apart and she is reflecting this in her behavior at work. People who bully sometimes commit suicide. Something is wrong with her. I am not suggesting that you must befriend her. But, maybe a simple, "What's wrong? Is there anything I can do to help you?" would calm her down. Do not touch her or walk toward her. This can be construed as menacing her.

You might check into aromatherapy, buy a bottle of something, and then when she rants on you, give it to her and say, "Maybe this will help." Act like you give a sh*t.

You are not the first person to have bipolar who needs to work. Everybody has to take care of themselves. Somewhere, there is somebody who has gone through this very thing. A good lawyer will know! You can learn to look up cases yourself and read the opinions in order to find what the evidence was and what the court's opinion was.

Stress is a killer. I agree with the posters above who said to just quit. But, recognize that you probably will have to completely retool yourself for a job that you can do at home (is this a possibility with your current job?)

Also, if you do quit, make sure that you give notice, and in the letter giving notice, be just as professional as you can be. Resist the temptation to tell them off. Treat this the same as if you got another job but want to keep the door open. Thank them for allowing you to work with them. Say nothing about stress, nasty coworkers, or an uncaring boss. Say nothing about your health.

You are strong, capable, and willing to work. You just can't pass up opportunities of merit. It isn't fair what is happening to you, but life often isn't. When (if) you leave, at some point in the future another employee will be down in HR with the same damned story. And then some lawyer will be calling you to be a witness. That's where you will get your revenge. Otherwise, find a way to move on.

Don't waste your time fantasizing that they get upset. They obviously don't care.

Good luck. You'll find a pathway.

[UpInArms]

98. Not certain how you feel about this, but

The next time she gets in the middle of the room to “make an announcement,” you could pull out your cellphone and start recording her ...

Bullies do not like being confronted, and usually scurry back to their corner ...

You will have her on record anyway, bolstering your case.

Best of luck to you

[CousinIT]

100. If it's legal to record - record. Document EVERYTHING. Then get a lawyer and go to HR

And let them know you're getting a lawyer because they refuse to deal with bullies in their workplace even with an alleged "anti-bullying" policy.

Collect dates, times, witnesses, what was said and by whom. With videos and/or audio to prove it. Show a pattern of toxic behavior and document when you spoke to her boss and what was said.

Don't be nasty with HR, just assertive enough to let them know you are defending yourself.

I hope you get SSDI too. This shit is not worth it long-term.