General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"In the days of the long hair you were so right and I was so wrong"
My father (who is long since departed) wrote me that note, which I cherish deeply, over 40 years ago. He had suffered a stroke some time before that and his use of words, which once came effortlessly to him, had become much more labored. But I knew exactly what he meant, and it couldn't have been more moving to me. In 1967 I became a freshman in college, the first member of my family to attend a university. Intensified by the times we were then living through, my natural liberal tendencies flourished in that liberated atmosphere, and yes I began to let my hair grow long.
I grew up in a working class family in a predominantly middle to upper middle class town. I didn't appreciate all of the contradictions inherent in my upbringing until later when I was exposed to subjects like sociology in college. My father had an eighth grade education. His parents, who had immigrated to America from Sicily, needed help from their children who were old enough to work, in order to keep the family afloat. So my father had little formal education, but he was a brilliant man.
He was also a warm and gracious man whose affections flowed freely. His politics, from what I could understand at the time, leaned clearly Democratic. Dad was a working man with no pretensions of social climbing, but though he wasn't overtly religious, his cultural values veered intrinsically conservative. When the sixties swept over our nation he found it profoundly unsettling. My father quietly coexisted with the then prevailing social order. He thought social mores existed for a reason. He believed authority should be respected. I, however, became a card carrying member of the Question Authority Generation.
Looking back I would have to describe my father as essentially a George Wallace Democrat when I was in my late teens. I have no doubt that my father harbored clear racial prejudices, but he wasn't at his core a racist. Dad accepted each person on their individual merits and accorded everyone personal respect, but succumbed to wide spread racial biases about people "on the whole." The overt racism of someone like George Wallace wasn't the hook that grabbed my father, it was his fear of the nation descending into lawless chaos, the pillars of society potentially dissolving, that drew my father toward right wing populism then.
As I increasingly became an anti-war radical and racial justice activist, my father didn't know the half of what I was up to, and I made sure that he didn't. I avoided having a direct political showdown with my father over my activities, but not because he held any power over me by then. I feared triggering am irrevocable emotional rupture between us. So we had our unspoken dance. Like I said above, Dad was a brilliant man. He may not have known half of what I was up to, but he still knew more than enough to understand that I had chosen a different path for my own life than the one he might have hoped for. My hair grew very long, and my life soon revolved ar0und one cause or another and my father understood that, even if the details remained for the most part unspoken.
My father watched, he listened, and he learned. And one day years later he penned that note to me. The stress our nation is undergoing today is as profound, if not more so, as what he went through in the sixties/early seventies. Many older Americans are, for whatever reasons, now FOX news junkies. They are my chronological peers. I hope their children and grandchildren, while remaining steadfast in pursuit of racial and economic justice in America, manage to avoid burning bridges inside those families. I never knew the exact moment when my father crossed the bridge over the divide that "politically" separated us. Our love refused to sever, and we stood together before he died. That is a testament to my father's benevolent spirit. I am lucky, I know. I could not have turned my father if ultimately he hadn't been open to turning. Some never will see through the fear, and even hate, that blinds them now. Hopefully, though, enough eventually will and our nation will exit these turbulent times with our core ideals intact.
Karadeniz
(22,587 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)It was emotional for me to write this also.
Karadeniz
(22,587 posts)Saw the light, he didn't issue ultimata to force you to change.
A lovely essay!
Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)And I am grateful that one never came. Though my father seemed thoroughly American to me at the time, he was raised as a Sicilian male, and I intuitively understood that it would be best if we could avoid casting my decisions as a challenge to his parental authority. The fact that we avoided that conflict was in small part due to my caution, but in larger part due to his love for me, and ultimately to his wisdom.
blm
(113,112 posts)niyad
(113,625 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)My father was a man who, outside of the circle of people who directly came in contact with him, the world never took any note of. But like so many people who we all know and love, he was special. I'm happy in this small way to be able to pass on a small part of him here to others.
central scrutinizer
(11,665 posts)I wrote a scathing email to my tea party, fundamentalist, Trump worshiping (maybe even a Q-zombie, I wouldnt be surprised) sister after the January 6 insurrection. Basically says Im done with you. Dont contact me unless you really need help. But it sits, unsent, in my drafts folder. She is my only sister and she was there for me when I needed. Ive learned that she and her asshole husband have both been vaccinated. Maybe she isnt totally brain dead.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)...of standing strong for your beliefs and honoring a genuine family bond. I know it isn't always possible but the effort is worth making even if it is doomed to fail. All you can do is try, if they will let you.
Under The Radar
(3,405 posts)I have the same story with my father. He too seemed misguided by respect for authority especially in the wake of 9-11 and decisions to go to war for the wrong reasons were to me obviously forced upon congress and the unsuspecting American public. Our arguments during that time are painful memories still today, but in the end he be wouldnt allow those battles divide us any longer.
I see similar disputes with my eldest son where he believes that progressive and social change should be instantaneous and I believe any change at all must be gradual to avoid rejection by society.
Isnt it all about the wisdom that comes with age and maturity?
Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)This is where the micro and macrocosms collide. When dynamics like this within too many individual families implode rather than ultimately heal, the societal implications can get dangerous.
gab13by13
(21,440 posts)it brings back memories. I am 2 years older than you, I reckon. My parents were staunch Democrats and my dad told me at a very young age that rich people vote Republican and poor people vote Democratic. Yeah we grew up watching Archie Bunker but we grew up in an area where there weren't any minorities and my parents never spoke ill of them.
I took a class in college, one of those classes one takes to up one's GPA, I took criminology. I had a bad habit in college of missing class, but I didn't miss that class. Half of the class was long hairs and the other half was whiskey people. Oh my god the arguments that I witnessed and was a part of. The whiskey people kids argued with fire and brimstone, with glaring eyes. My small town eyes were opened to the hatred of the world. College was the only thing keeping me out of Vietnam. I made money playing bass guitar in a band and drove a car that had flowers and flower power painted on it. I almost made the trip to Woodstock but backed out at the last minute.
The thing is that most of my high school friends when they graduated college and got good jobs flipped a switch and became advocates for the status quo, became old fashioned conservative Republicans, no, became Libertarians, I got mine and to hell with those who don't.
Today's world is much scarier than the 60's, the push toward fascism and white supremacy is out in the open and full speed ahead. I can't bring myself to watch cable news, the Nazis control it and have infiltrated the courts, the military and law enforcement. I pray that we can keep our democracy. Is freedom just another word for nothing left to lose?
spike jones
(1,690 posts)I left home when I was 18 and have never been back.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)Attempting to preserve family unity, which isn't always possible anyway, can't stand in the way of being who you have to be.
speak easy
(9,336 posts)He ran on 'fear of the nation descending into lawless chaos'.
hunter
(38,337 posts)It's not on us, we can lay it all on the deplorables and the Nervous Nellies who fear them.
About a third of U.S. Americans are fascist, racist, assholes. At least a sixth of non-deplorable U.S. Americans are afraid of these assholes.
If we are fearless we can defeat these assholes.
speak easy
(9,336 posts)Like WJC, he was a once a generation candidate.
hunter
(38,337 posts)Third terms would have made them tortured heroes.
Is it not enough to do a competent job for eight years and pass it on to the next guy?
I've never stuck with a job for eight years or more and now that I'm in my sixties it seems I never will.
speak easy
(9,336 posts)Bill Clinton - 54 years is rather young to retire.
I admit, my views are colored by what came next - catastrophe.
ShazzieB
(16,561 posts)But he didn't even make it through the first year of his 4th term, so maybe it's a moot point. I don't think there's any question all that time in office shortened his life.
speak easy
(9,336 posts)He himself was desperate not to repeat the experience of Woodrow Wilson, but was prevailed upon to run, as he represented the war effort.
thttps://www.history.com/topics/us-presidents/woodrow-wilson.
pandr32
(11,631 posts)He was quite conservative in many ways but a strong union man, a veteran, and tolerant of the changes his kids went through and wanted because he knew the world was always changing and he loved us.
Thank you for sharing your story.
twodogsbarking
(9,844 posts)with six months to two years to live. He died in 1992.
Never give up.
rurallib
(62,465 posts)In the late 60s and early 70s he had a gas station on the interstate in Iowa. In those days most traveling was done during the Summer, so it really meshed with his running it with part time college help during the school year. Then in the summer the college kids worked full time.
I think there were six of us college kids. We were all anti-war. Two of us had long hair, the rest regular male cuts for the day. One revealed himself as racist out of the blue one day.
I have no idea if he was a democrat or a republican. He loved FDR, DDE and JFK. Other than that we seldom spoke politics.
But at the gas station in the early 70s it seemed like the war was always kind of in the background all the time. My Dad had a hard time understanding why we didn't support the war at the beginning. However, he said little and listened.
Then one day out of the blue on a quiet day, he said out loud "you know, you kids are right." I was working with another college student at the time. We looked at each other and I said "right about what?"
"The war, race, Nixon" could have blown me over with a slight breeze.
And the kid that was racist. He refused to wait on a black guy one day. My dad took him aside and told him "Now, Ron, You are going to go out that door. After that you have a choice. You wait on the customer as you would any other customer or you turn right, go to your car and go home. I will mail you your check."
Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)...and the recollections others have shared about the changes their parents went through over time also. We are among the lucky who got to experience something like that, not every parent changes in that way. I set up programs for homeless youth in San Francisco. Many if not most of them could not have kept living with their parents no matter how much they might have wanted to.
That moment you described with your Dad is pretty damn powerful
Sogo
(4,997 posts)rurallib
(62,465 posts)He acted a bit sullen the rest of the day.
My father had some words with him the next day.
My dad was no saint. He explained to Ron that what we cared about was whether the color of the customer's money was green. That was what mattered.
Ron stayed on until the fall semester started then left. I kept in touch with most of my fellow workers from that station except Ron. Have no idea where he ever ended up.
Amaryllis
(9,526 posts)Wild blueberry
(6,670 posts)Thank you!
One of my favorite memories of my dad was this formerly lifelong Republican proudly wearing an "Obama O'Biden '08" button. I think his love for his five kids affected his views. When I heard him yelling at W on TV, I knew a seismic shift had occurred. Just glad we both lived long enough to share it.
mudstump
(342 posts)Once a strong union democrat he began listening to Rush and gradually he changed. It was so very sad to see the anger and bitterness grow in his heart. He once attacked me as a Jane Fonda, tree-huggin' liberal...I asked him why he would let some guy on the radio who was just trying to make more money turn him against his own daughter. He asked me, "Where did you get those nutty ideas?"....I told him..."from you dad, from you."
Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)I hate how right wing hate media poisoned so many benign souls, but that became personal for you in a way that I fortunately never had to deal with. It's sad to read what you went through, but I managed to smile a little when I read your reply to him: "from you dad, from you." It says so much.
nuxvomica
(12,451 posts)His parents came from Sicily but he was the only one of his siblings to attend college (thanks to the GI Bill). He was always an FDR Democrat like his parents and like most of his generation (and, frankly, a lot of ours too) harbored racist attitudes but as he got older he became more liberal, even advocating marijuana legalization. His brother worked his way up through a corporation with a high-school degree and became very well-off. He was a conservative Republican till the day he died but even he, the son of immigrant laborers, was a decent man and I don't think he would have stomached what his party has become.
I think the people that progress are the ones that already had a thirst for social justice as their north star to begin with, and that is often because they've known what it's like to struggle. I am not as concerned about the working class conservatives as the ones who grew up cosseted and privileged.
Great post, Tom Rinaldo.
PatSeg
(47,649 posts)Thank you so much for sharing. It was very moving.
WinstonSmith4740
(3,059 posts)My story really parallels yours, only my "folks" came from a different area of Italy. Dad was a product of his times, and some of the things we experienced (I started college in 1966) were a shock to both of my parents. but they grew with the times. Dad went from considering war protesters uninformed brats to hating the damn war and bemoaning how much talent we were losing over there. "One of those boys could have discovered the cure for cancer" were words I never forgot.
Both of our dads are gone now, but somehow I think they both would have enjoyed this. It's from 2014, but spot on.
hunter
(38,337 posts)That's how my ancestors ended up in the American West. They wouldn't fight in Europe, they were persecuted, and so they left. Later there was another who wouldn't fight for the Confederacy. He walked west into the wilderness.
But whenever the shit hit the fan, for example, Nazis to the east and Imperial Japan to the west, all four of of my grandparents were fierce.
One of my grandfathers was an Army Air Corp officer during World War II, one of my grandmothers volunteered with the USO, and the other grandparents were welders building and repairing ships for the Merchant Marine.
My dad and my father-in-law both refused arms during the Korean War. My dad was a nearsighted Radar O'Reilly medical clerk and my father-in-law was a bad ass Navy hospital corpsman assigned to the Marines. It was just dumb luck they didn't land in Korea, and they knew it.
My parents took me and my siblings to anti-war demonstrations. My mom hung out with radical religious pacifists.
As a family we tend to stick together. My grandparents and their siblings had family they were alienated from for religious and political differences but they didn't pass those differences on to their children.
Your dad sounds like someone of my grandparent's generation.
marble falls
(57,355 posts)... eight years after he had joined 'hardhats for Nixon' and stopped paying for my tuition at the University of Akron because of the Communists running it. Yeah, right - the Communists were running Polymer High School, not Goodyear, Goodrich, General, Seiberling and Firestone.
PatrickforB
(14,594 posts)A bit younger than you, I think, Tom, but I can remember for example when the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan.
I really wanted to watch that show because my older cousins were all crazy about the Beatles. And when they came out on stage, my dad, who was a Republican, reached toward the channel dial on the TV, at the same time saying, "Goddamn long hairs!"
He was socially conservative, business oriented, and yes, racist. Hated Mohammad Ali (always called him Cassius Clay), hated the Panthers and so on, and yet was troubled by segregation. But he freaked about busing. Said he would rather die than have me be bused - so we moved out into the suburbs. I remember in 1968 during the riots, Dad and a bunch of other white basically middle class guys in our neighborhood went out and set up barriers because they thought black people were going to riot.
Nobody did, though. Riot in our suburb, I mean. But like your father, my dad was profoundly disturbed by the culture wars.
He was a bit of a maverick, though - not a religious conservative at all. Funny story: When I was around ten, a lot of my friends were Jewish and Catholic. The Catholic kids talked about Catechism, and the Jewish kids about their Bar/Bat Mitzvahs.
So I asked Dad which church I should join, and which was true. He said he did not know, and that it was a decision I would have to make after reading the bible and 'studying up' on the whole thing.
But, he went on, when you're older, you might join a church. And if you do, the minister might ask your for money. He might, in fact, ask you for a LOT of money. Up to a tenth of everything you have. This is called a 'tithe.'
At this point, he pulled a wad of bills out of his pocket, and said, "If someone asks you for a lot of money, take out your money like this, and throw it up in the air. Tell that minister that what stays up there belongs to God, and what falls back down to earth still belongs to you. Don't give him anything."
Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)The nexus here mostly is the late 60's/ early 70's, but it makes me wonder what stories will be shared about families during the Trump years by today's kids and teens writing decades hence. I hope at least some of them will speak to a capacity for growth not yet exhibited by their parents
Hekate
(90,865 posts)yonder
(9,682 posts)Like other posters, your Dad reminds me somewhat of my own. However, mine was much more set in his ways. We could never talk about anything worthwhile unless my views aligned with his. Otherwise, the conversation would invariably devolve. He was much a product of his Southern upbringing and certain topics were just not open for discussion. Toward the end, I thought there was a softening in him though he could never acknowledge it.
Thanks again.
Sogo
(4,997 posts)My background is shaped mostly by my grandparents' generation. My father's parents emigrated from Austro-Hungary before WWI. My grandfather and all of his male siblings refused to be drafted into the Kaiser's army, so they all came to America and settled in the Midwest and farmed, as that is what they knew. As well, many of their fellow countrymen and extended family were already here. So, with that close of a tie to the old country and with their reason for coming to America, mostly we were a family who is anti-war. However, my dad volunteered to fight in WWII for the cause, but was not accepted because of an injury in childhood to one of his knees, which left him incapable of the type of mobility that was required. Ironically, one of my cousins who still lived in Germany at the time of WWII was drafted into Hitler's army as a 16-year-old. It was either that, or he and his entire family would be taken out and shot. Luckily, within the first few months of his service, he was captured by Allied forces and sat out the war in prison. He once told me that on the days the food was good, all the prisoners talked about was food; and on the days the food was bad, all they talked about was women....
Sorry, I'm rambling, but appreciate your post very much.
soldierant
(6,938 posts)is not incompatible with questioning authority, any more than loving one's country is incompatible with hating some thingsa about it. But most people don't "get" that. (Probably not most people here, but most people in general.)
It's also true that kids have been using their appearance as a flag of rebellion - and parents have grabbed that flagpole and beat them with it - for a very long time - probably forever. Yes, I remember when it was hair. Hair is pretty benign, since it grows in regardless what is done to it (for most of us.) And clothes are easily changed. Even piercings can close up if they cease to be used. I do feel for those who came of age when it was tattoos.
Collimator
(1,639 posts). . . Reminded me of something that Dave Barry once wrote. He was contrasting how easy it was to get a rise out of establishment adults in his days just by wearing longish hair and the more extreme efforts of blue mohawk, pierced, grunge-type youth of later days. I think he joked about taking such youth aside and assuring them that "they would have gotten the shit kicked out of them" back in his day.
On that note, I find myself remembering a young woman at my college who was so dramatically done up in leather and chains that, as she walked by, I instinctively realized that it was the outfit that was wearing her, and not the other way around. Not unlike Dave Barry, I imagined taking this young woman aside, putting my arm around her shoulder and saying, "Oh, honey, are you afraid that someone is going to find out that you are basically a nice person?"
soldierant
(6,938 posts)Volaris
(10,275 posts)Every 4 years, the Republican Party tries to convince minority constituencies to buy into the argument that they should vote GOP, because democrats just want you utterly dependent on the Big Ebil Gubment till you die, but WE BELIEVE in things like hard work, Bootstraps, and the meritocracy of the Free Market..ALL of which will redown to you if you just stop voting for Dems, and instead believe that We Republicans actually understand how hard you work for your pennies.
Which might be believable if the Party of Lincoln had spent the last 50 years doing something other than Absolutely Fuck All about systemic rascism in america, instead of dodging the issue at every turn.
If they ever figure this out, the Liebermans, the Manchins and (I'd wager) even the Schumers of our party would have a damn hard time keeping their seats against the republican Micheal Steels of the nation;
All I'm sayin is thank god that for now, their actually too dumb to figure this out
ProfessorGAC
(65,248 posts)My dad was also the son of Sicilian immigrants!
My dad did have one year of seminarian college, though. In those days, it was basically a liberal arts year.
But, changed his mind about being a priest.
Went straight to the Army, but was a translator in the postwar occupation of Italy.
He was medical corps, and lots of hospitals were damaged. So, civilians' only choice was the military hospital.
He was sharp too!
Some similarities between our dads.
elleng
(131,202 posts)Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)
Volaris This message was self-deleted by its author.
Handler
(336 posts)Your story parallels mine in several ways, however I did miss out on a positive closure due my fathers untimely death. I do think we would reached common ground if we had more time. He was a good man.
catbyte
(34,485 posts)I'm afraid that today some family ruptures can't, and to be honest, probably should not be healed. I keep thinking about that awful father who threatened to kill his children if they turned him in for his participation on January 6. These last 4-5 years have destroyed so many families, not to mention friendships. Just reading the posts in the families of QAnon fanatics is heartbreaking.
Thank you for your post. I hope other families find the same peace.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,917 posts)My father, unlike the parents of some children today, never joined a mob that violently broke into our nation's capital to disrupt democracy. Likewise, my father never took part in a mob that stoned school buses carrying black children to attend any newly integrated schools. I don't know how I could have dealt with that.
Sometimes though I think about that southern racist man who viciously beat John Lewis when both of them were young, and then later, when both of them were elderly, traveled to DC to personally apologize to the Congressman and ask him for forgiveness, which John Lewis very graciously gave him. Sometimes we have to close a door on past hurtful interactions in order to focus on a more positive future. Maybe the lesson is, though, not to lock it.
malaise
(269,219 posts)And yes some of us were lucky
Aussie105
(5,444 posts)Something I've lived by.
Then Trump came along. And i changed my mind.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,572 posts)A little more dynamic, and a little more "extreme" than mine, although not extreme at all, if you know what I mean.
Within our family, little of consequence was ever actually said, it was all about tone. If we could have been any more Anglo, I swear I don't know how.
JGug1
(320 posts)I have a different story about my own father. No question that our family were Democrats and not George Wallace Democrats. However, i believed that our involvement in the Vietnam War was righteous. My father didn't. In a memorable debate while sitting in a Howard Johnson's Restaurant, I convinced him through my ignorant but forceful debate, that I was correct. By the next morning, he had come to his senses. Months before LBJ lied us into exacerbating the war, such that we lost an additional *50,000* deaths and who knows how many wounded, my father knew that the war was a civil war between the corrupt government of South Vietnam and the Communist government of North Vietnam. We had no business there. The "domino effect" of Vietnam becoming united under the Communists was utter nonsense.