What if the minimum age for military service was 55?

[hunter]

Would the USA have invaded Iraq if all our troops were older folks?

What if everyone serving on an aircraft carrier, a submarine, a fighter plane or a bomber had at least a few gray hairs?

Would we less inclined to military adventures if it was grandma and grandpa getting shot at or blown up by roadside bombs?

[Ian David]

1. They'd be able to fight really early in the mornings. n/t

[Atman]

2. "We're gonna take that hill! Ow...my sciatica! Can someone read this map?"

"I can't see a thing without my readers. Hey sarge, can we stop a minute...I gotta pee again..."



.

[hunter]

16. Plenty of fifty year olds who can kick anyone's ass...

... they may not be as physically strong as a twenty year old, but they know how to take down an opponent before it becomes a battle of brute strength and endurance.

I've met older people who can crush or turn an assailant with words.

[Atman]

17. Actually, I'm pushing 53, and I snowboard and play beach volleyball.

I watched my wife's parents slouch into a barcalounger and watch McGyver reruns in their old age. No way am I letting that happen to me! In fact, I'm going to the Surf Expo in Orlando this weekend to meet up with some of my old wave riding buddies. Use it or lose it!

[TheWraith]

3. Given the fact that that's literally impossible, I'm not sure of the point of this thread.

Military service is very physically demanding. While some people 55 and up are in the service, they're mostly NOT found as front-line grunts and other jobs that require you to be able to haul 150 pounds of gear 10 miles across a desert in 110 degree heat, or lift 650 pound naval gun shells, or the like.

[Jean V. Dubois]

7. I agree. Absurd premise.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

8. "An army marches on its stomach" would take on a whole new meaning.

[Angry Dragon]

9. It seems you have missed the point

[TheWraith]

15. No, I got it. The point has no worth.

It's about as relevant to the real world as if I asked "What if the military was composed entirely of people who prefer Star Wars over Star Trek?" Or if only people with webbed toes could join up. In fact, the example is counter to the point--people are generally more protective of their kids than they are of their parents, so chances are FEWER people would object to wars if it was all graybeards getting shot up, instead of Little Johnny who just turned 19 and has his whole life ahead of him.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

32. It's not within your power to decide what has worth

.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

31. I'm not the OP, but I think I get the point

Young men and women are sent to kill and die by those predominantly in that 50-60something group. They're calling the shots from far behind "the lines" (to the extent that battle lines matter anymore), and they're getting a lot of 19 and 22 year olds killed in the process. These 50/60 year olds are also very aware that the peak of physical fitness also coincides (in men) with peak testosterone production. Moreover, armed forces have an easier time imposing groupthink on younger soldiers and sailors. This is critical in any war--to get the unit to act as a single entity. So the idea here is to send the warmongers who make the decisions about who lives and dies, to do it for themselves. I'll go ahead and wager that the OP did not submit this as some sort of a policy plank that should be fleshed out and made real, but was instead using the device, the notion of elderly soldiers, to make a point.

I'm surprised you didn't understand the point. Thinking like this has been around, in poetry, literature, and articles, since at least World War 1, and probably before that.

[onenote]

38. The point is pointless

Yes, the theme of old men sending young men to war has been around for ages. And it still happens. Not just in the US, but everywhere. And the fact is that so long as they are armies, no matter what the age of the soldiers, someone is going to send them to war. Do I think Bush, Cheney et al would send 55 year olds to war? Darn tooting they would if that was the only army we had (and, of course, the only way we'd have such an army is if the folks we were fighting had such an army and that hasn't happened in the history of the world so if you're going to speculate about that you might as well speculate about a world in which there simply are no armies.

By the way, not that it really matters, but would this army of old guys (and I'm in the old guy category) be made up of conscripts or volunteers?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

43. I cannot answer your final question, because to me, the point is not pointless, but metaphorical

The OP may or may not have meant something different, but I never for a second considered this an actual proposal. I considered it thought-provoking hyperbole. Is everyone else reading this as a literal prescription for what ails our warring society?

[Iggo]

4. Grayhairs are notoriously reluctant to taking orders. (n/t)

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. Exactly. "How about 'no'? Does 'no' work for you?" n/t

[NYC Liberal]

5. We're ok with sending 18 year olds fresh out of high school.

So I don't think sending older people will change much.

[hunter]

14. Older people wouldn't assume their superiors knew what they were doing.

In civilian life most of them would have had plenty of experience dealing with asshole bosses, coworkers, and clients in a constructive manner.

Kids haven't learned these skills yet. Once they've had time to become bitter and cynical about the military, and before they've developed the skills to deal with an irrational command structure, most of them are out.

It'd be damned difficult to get older people to accept the role of cannon fodder.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. The world would be a much safer place.

[Hugabear]

10. Or if those authorizing military force had to fight on the front lines

Now that would be interesting. Make those chickenhawks put up or shut up

[Nuclear Unicorn]

19. *cough*libya*cough*

[HopeHoops]

11. Ah, "The Walker Brigade" - Monty Python reference.

[DJ13]

12. I want the contract to equip these with machine guns

Could make a fortune!

[LanternWaste]

13. No more and no less that if it were

"Would we less inclined to military adventures if it was grandma and grandpa getting shot at or blown up by roadside bombs?"

No more and no less that if it were our sons and daughters getting shot at or blown up by roadside bombs... which is indeed the case.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. They wouldn't hold terrain, they'd just yell at the enemy to get off their lawn n/t

[hunter]

24. My little old lady grandma made her berserker ancestors proud.

For several hours she held off the police and paramedics when they came to remove her from her home.

She went kicking and screaming and biting all the way to the ambulance.

My grandma was an awful, awful hoarder, like on the television shows, and a smoker who'd forget where she'd left her cigarette burning and light up another one. She was also a crazy woman who'd threaten neighbors with garden implements, and generally was a danger to herself and others.

[onenote]

20. What is the point of this pointless speculation?

You might just as well ask what if the maximum age for military service was four years old. Would the USA have invaded Iraq with an army of toddlers? No.

But military service isn't going to be limited to retirees or infants for the US or for any other country and thus the premise of this thread is blatantly ridiculous.

Oh, and by the way, the folks making the decision to go to war: usually they're over 55.

[hunter]

22. It's a thought experiment.

Einstein imagined surfing along a beam of light and came up with his theory of relativity.

He didn't actually surf a beam of light.

I'm simply trying to figure out the nature of our militaristic society.

[onenote]

26. What is the nature of our militaristic society?

I suppose its the same as the nature of all other societies that have militaries if you're basing the analysis on the age of those allowed to participate in military service. Maybe less militaristic than some, particularly those that still conscript citizens into military service against their will and that often foist military service onto young teens.

[ohheckyeah]

21. They'd walk onto the battlefield..

stand around and think "what'd I come here for"? 30 seconds later "oh yeah, I remember".

[RZM]

25. The mess halls would have to be converted to buffets. n/t

[RZM]

28. I don't know. I bet it varies from base to base

No doubt some have really great food. But I'm talking Old Country Buffet style, where the options are limitless!

[JonLP24]

35. Food is roughly the same across bases

At least it was in Iraq. The Fajita and Philly Cheesesteak days were the best.

[leeroysphitz]

29. Who would we sell Viagra to?

[Skidmore]

30. Have you looked at our military?

Really looked? Or are you just making an assumption that only teenagers and young people serve? My brother just retired from the military and he is in his mid 50s. He's not the only one who was serving with "gray hairs." The decision to go to war is not made by the enlisted personnel, but by the career politicians and the interests who put them in office. Let's drop the naivete and start being a little more realistic.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

34. Of course there are older people in the military.

Well over half of the US armed forces are between the ages of 18 and 30, so while there are some gray-haired professional soldiers, the force is predominantly young.

Also, I took the OP as being a slam at the older people (both civilian and military) who start the wars.

[hunter]

39. Actually I've got a disproportionate number of friends and acquaintences who are military..

Maybe more than half, most of them my age, in their fifties or sixties, the older among them being Viet Nam vets.

I also know a few messed up kids who served in Iraq. My brother's godson served in Iraq. He describes his job there as "scooping up brains and body parts." He means that literally. He has not had an easy re-assimilation into civilian society. Like some Viet Nam vets I know he may never be right.

I'm not talking about "The decision to go to war," I'm talking about the dynamics of the way we fight, and the way general society sees our military.

Certainly the character of military service would change drastically if our youngest soldiers were 55 and our larger society's perception of war would also change. Returning veterans, having already been part of civilian society, might also have fewer problems adjusting.

[Uncle Joe]

33. The government would be more liberal and less prone to wage war.

Thanks for the thread, hunter.

[onenote]

37. Have you considered the age of the architects of the Iraq war?

Bush: 57
Cheney: 62
Rumsfeld: 71
Powell: 66
Bremer: 62
Myers: 61
Wolfowitz: 60
Abrams: 55
Perle: 62

Why would anyone think that the decision whether to invade Iraq would have been different if it was left to folks over 55? It was. And we all know what decision they made. Would they have been less inclined to do so if the military was only made up of those over 55? As long as they weren't sending themselves into battle, I don't think it would have made the slightest difference to them. If we had a military, they were going to use it.

[Uncle Joe]

40. Because the people that put them in power were primarily of the older generation.

Under the current system, you can't even vote until just before or about the same time as you're eligble to enlist or in the past be drafted.

If people were eligible to vote long before they were eligible to kill, I believe there would be greater participation by younger people in the voting process and the older generation would have more at risk and as a result the government would become more liberal.

As it is, Americans participation in choosing their government increases with age and by then they have retired from the military or are past the age of enlisting or worst case, revised scenario being drafted.

I believe for the most part, people's political point of views are intricately tied to their personal risk/reward quotient.

[Yo_Mama]

41. Our army would be tough, but slow

And the medical costs would be fearful.

Grab a bunch of 55 year olds and send them out with backpacks trudging around, and 50% would be disabled within six months.

[pintobean]

42. The walker brigade

would really exist.

[HubertHeaver]

45. That would solve the social security solvency problem.

Very few of the old farts would survive basic training. (I'm 62. I can talk about those 55-year-old pups this way.)

My suggestion is to re-institute the Draft. Start with conscripting the 60 to 65 year old group with the only disqualifying condition being prior active-duty service. See it as an upper-age No Child Left Behind. They would be given 13 weeks to be able to perform as a healthy 20 year old, regardless of infirmities and or disabilities. _________ 1/2

[hunter]

46. First day of basic training: Using the Automated external defibrillator...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_external_defibrillator

[spanone]

47. what if the maximum age was three?