When I am in a really down mood, I begin to wonder if we didn't let the

[Atticus]

Republicans "cross the Rubicon" on January 6th without paying any penalty for their sacrilege.

Hundreds, likely over a thousand, screaming chanting American terrorists threatened and battered Capitol and Metropolitan police officers as they invaded the US Capitol while a joint session of Congress was underway with the express intent to murder the Vice President and the Speaker of the House as they seized control of the government on behalf of Donald Trump, the clear loser of the last election. And then, when Congress and the Vice President escaped----all of the terrorists went home.

There were no arrests on January 6th, only one shot was fired by Capitol defenders and the just thoroughly defeated President of the United States praised those who took part in what can only be described as an attempted coup. Congress reconvened within hours and stained our nation's honor forever as the overwhelming majority of the Republican Party voted to overturn the 2020 presidential election---just as the screaming terrorist mobs had demanded. All of these smirking traitors who encouraged and approved of the insurrection with their despicable votes are still in Congress. None have been even reprimanded.

And, as I type this, a massive and well-funded effort to rewrite history is under way, seeking to downplay the seriousness of the insurrection or even shift responsibility for the embarrassing and traitorous violence that injured over 140 policemen and cost two of them their lives to those who dared to oppose their losing candidate. And, as other news, good and bad, is reported, the national attention is tugged away from January 6th and it seems entirely possible that while some of the most visible Capitol invaders may pay for their crimes, the ones who sent them, funded them, enabled them and incited them will not.

This post is already too long and I apologize for the rambling. Perhaps I am just a "dinosaur' who does not understand the nature of modern justice. Maybe my keen awareness of my own mortality makes me too impatient for the arrival of justice.But, as I understand it, justice has not yet been served.

Is not "justice delayed" still "justice denied"?

[elleng]

1. Sure, but 'we' didn't actually have control at the time, and yes,

"justice delayed" is often "justice denied." A.G. Garland is doing some heavy lifting, these days.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. I am similarly annoyed and dismayed my friend ...

When I get TOO pissed, I comfort myself thinking:

1) they didn't succeed in shit, and
2) they didn't actually do anything THAT terrible, in the end, that they are getting away with.

Particularly given the autopsy of Officer Sicknick as being of natural causes, these assholes aren't getting away with like burning the place down, or murdering a bunch of officials.

Obviously there's a tremendous amount of White Privilege and IOKIYAR bullshit to this story, but in the end, it's not like they behaved as total savages, and are totally skating for it. It was mostly dick-wagging, in the end.

And anything we ponder that 'might have happened', like Senators being executed or whatnot ... is really just a guess. I have serious doubts that these people were prepared to do something that dramatic.

I expect that the leaders will end up in real trouble, esp. if there's evidence of an actual mass murder plot, but most of them are going to get a slap on the wrist.

Frustrating cause we KNOW if this had been 'our side', we'd have never been allowed to do even close to what they did.

But I'm trying to not let it get me TOO down.

[bottomofthehill]

19. Have to disagree with large parts

Hugh, I have to disagree with you. When you say they actually did not do anything that terrible, I have to correct you. People died as a direct and indirect result of the attack on the Capitol. This mob attacked one of the greatest icons of democracy in the world.

They tried to overturn an election that though insurrection. They attacked people charged with protecting the Capitol, its inhabitants, and Democracy itself. Say what you will about natural causes but Brian Sicknick died of natural causes after a chemical attack....

Some people who work at the Capitol are still terrified to go back to work. They once felt a level of safety working at one of the major terrorist targets in the world and now no feeling of security at all. The workforce is still in shock. The building is still not repaired in places and it will take a while as parts of the building that were destroyed were built in the 1860’s. The AOC will repair but it will never be the same.

There are a lot of people who work in the who are not Members of Congress, cafeteria workers, janitorial staff, IT and AV people, people who will never feel the same level of safety again.

It was THAT terrible and worse.

You further state, it’s not like they behaved as total savages, well, they attacked with clubs, spears, bats, rocks, construction materials, augmented it with chemical sprays including pepper spray, CS and homemade shit, along with things like wasp and hornet spray,
WD-40 and fire extinguishers, by the way. The they shit and pissed in the building, THEY BEHAVED LIKE SAVAGES.

As to executions, go back and look at a few of the pictures again. Many of the cops are lucky they were not killed. A Member of Congress with out the body armor would have easily been beaten dead. I don’t have to just take their word for it, I could see it in their eyes and hear it in their voices, sense it in the air.
They were out for blood.

[bottomofthehill]

23. Not that terrible

[bottomofthehill]

24. Nothing to worry about

?resize=770%2C513

[bottomofthehill]

25. Savage, this is a chemical attack

[wnylib]

26. I have to agree with you.

It WAS that bad, and worse. It was insurrection, a coup attempt. They had wrist ties to take captives and execute them. Only the actions of some very quick thinking and moving security people inside the building prevented the taking of captives and slaughter that could have occurred.

Those representstives and their staff who could not get out soon enough had to hide silently behind barricaded doors to save their own lives.

There is no reason to downplay the horrors of that day. There are members of Congress and their staff who have PTSD as a result.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

37. You make good points, I should've said that only a % behaved like savages

I'm still holding out hope that the ones who:
1) Beat on cops, and/or
2) Planned this whole thing, esp. those who planned to harm people in the process, and/or
3) Destroyed valuable property

Will be fully held to account.

The ones who just showed up and went along with the crowd and strolled around the building and left, which is a significant %, will probably not end up in THAT much trouble ... and I'm going to try to not let that upset me too much.

This could've been a lot worse, with THAT many people.

My premise here was 'the way I'm trying to think' so that when Justice fails to some degree (which it will, perhaps even largely) that I'm not cast into depression.

We really, really need to do something as a society about the freaking lies that these people are consuming, which brought them to the point of believing that something this dramatic had to be done. It's very obvious a large swath of our population is simply not capable of determining fact from fiction.

[bottomofthehill]

38. Thanks for letting me unload

And taking my points into consideration. It good to vent

[lagomorph777]

39. Only a percent. Yeah, 99 percent.

The other one percent behaved like starving hyenas.

[NewHendoLib]

3. Atticus, your posts always reflect what is going on in my mind

K and R.

[Ilsa]

4. People like Frank Figliuzzi imply we're still on the appetizer course.

My words, not his.

Cheer yourself up by thinking of the plan for justice as a long, multi-course dinner, with pauses for using the finger bowl or eating sorbet to cleanse the palate.

I believe the Garland justice dept will determine who among elected officials coordinated the insurrection, they'll be charged.

Dessert will be sweet when it arrives.

[brooklynite]

5. How long does it take you to investigate a crime and get a conviction?

Arrests weren’t made on Jan6 because the top goal was to clear the Capitol so that the House and Senate could approve President Biden’s election.

Subsequently, hundreds have been indicted and they will be tried and likely convicted. Sorry if they’re not quick enough for you, but “we know they’re guilty” isn’t a basis for conviction.

[Tennessee Hillbilly]

6. I nave the same concerns as you do

My first hope was that Nancy and the dems would be able to create a special commission to investigate and issue a report. But the repugs have thwarted this.

At least Garland and the FBI appear to be making a big effort to arrest and charge the seditionist leaders. But this will we a very long process and trump and other repugs are already calling those arrested "true patriots" who are being persecuted.

Trump himself, as well as some of his top officials, were clearly involved in the planning and execution of this attempted coup. They made sure that the capitol building was poorly defended, and ignored frantic requests for reinforcements. Trump didn't call of the attack until he realized that it would fail.

[oldbones]

7. I don't think we will ever have Justice that is deserved

I feel you all, I am so depressed over all this bs. I have all my life tried my best to love people. Or at least to find good qualities in them. Now I have to fight this feeling of hatred that seems to ever more come creeping in. I think Trump has a natural talent for raising hate in everyone . I don't want to be a bitter hater, but I am, This is what I am now.

[Collimator]

16. I Keep Saying This. . .

. . . But to repeat myself, Trump is the Anti-Mr. Rogers. He brings out the worst in everyone, even those who oppose him.*

Not sure of the antidote, but maybe we need to queue up re-runs of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood and inject ourselves with his goodness. The patience that he always displayed and his faith in others are sorely needed in my bedraggled soul, I don't mind admitting.


* I'm going to give Michelle Obama a pass because she specifically encouraged us to "go high" no matter how low the other side gets.

[Phoenix61]

8. I so get what you're saying but I'm hopeful

truth will win out. I live in a small town where certain individuals have engaged in all sorts of political/financial shenanigans. No one thought anyone would ever pay until... the FBI hit town and indictments have been raining down like rice at a wedding. Talk on the street is it’s just the beginning. If it can happen here it can happen anywhere.

[Baked Potato]

9. The Insurrection has opened the door and exposed the RW domestic terrorist movement.

Now, investigators from every area of law enforcement have entered that opened door and will amass a database of RW activities never before possible.

“FBI Director Christopher Wray said in March that citizens from around the country had sent the FBI more than 270,000 digital media tips. Wray said, "With their help, we've identified hundreds of suspects and opened hundreds of investigations in all but one of our 56 field offices."

The government said it has issued a combined total of over 900 search warrants and the investigation has included more than 15,000 hours of surveillance and body-worn camera footage from multiple law enforcement agencies. The government has also gathered approximately 1,600 electronic devices, the results of hundreds of searches of electronic communication providers, over 80,000 reports and 93,000 attachments related to law enforcement interviews and other investigative steps, authorities said in a filing.”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-arrests-2021-04-30/

I think there will be justice. I believe our elected officials are deadly serious in seeing justice served.

[7wo7rees]

10. Thanks Atticus. No words to add. Just thank you for writing/saying so well.

Color me frustrated in North Texas.
Ms.7wo7rees

[hay rick]

11. Treason is the new jaywalking.

If I was a traitor I would be encouraged by the weak response to January 6.

[smirkymonkey]

12. +1000

Too furious about this to say anything more right now.

[pnwmom]

13. More than 410 defendants have been arrested so far.

On Jan. 6th, the police was horribly outnumbered, and they had the job of protecting the Congress.That was more important than arresting random people that day.

This isn't over yet.

[Ferrets are Cool]

14. K and R

[Poiuyt]

15. I have very little doubt that none of the insurrection leaders will face any penalty

They've arrested a few of the foot soldiers, but the true instigators will get off scot free.

[Ponietz]

28. The FBI makes quite a show with the little fish

[Marie Marie]

17. In my heart, there will be no justice in any of this until

the Top Banana (that former guy) sees the inside of a prison. He caused all of this and his immorality, misdeeds, and crimes have done so much damage (damage that will linger long after he is reduced to a bitter shell) to this country. They all need to pay for their crimes but it has to lead to and end with him being held accountable - for the first time in his miserable existence on this planet. He must pay for this. JMHO.

[Irish_Dem]

18. I think there was a huge psychological impact on the general public.

Many Americans were horrified and rightly so.
I felt a big shift in feelings and thoughts.

[Pepsidog]

20. When some harsh prison terms are given and people are being made an example of what

happens when you storm the Capitol, we will all feel better.

[soldierant]

21. I hate to think of you in a really down mood.

The problem with the right to a speedy trial is that, if the clock starts when the time is committed, those prosecuting it will fail to convict many guilty people for lack of time to gather evidence.

At that point, the prosecution pretty well needs to be ready to go., so that any delays initiated by the defense do not count against the defendant's right to a speedy trial, becaus those delays are for the defendant's benefit.

We really need to give lawyers for both sides time to work. I don't think that is what is meant by "justice delayed is justice denied." I think that phrase refers to situations where everything is already adjudicated, and those required to execute the actions of justice drag their feet.

Such as after Brown v. Board when the courts had spoken ... but justice was not being delivered because those entrusted to deliver it were not doing so because they just didn't want to.

[karin_sj]

22. I feel the same way

It's really disheartening and there are so many republicans who are trying to pretend that it was no big deal. I was on Facebook recently and saw an old classmate (thank God, I'm not Facebook friends with her) refer to the insurrection as a "peaceful protest" and referred to Joe Biden as a "tyrant." They really are living in an alternate reality. Justice has to prevail because these people will never see the light.

[KatK]

27. If I really let it sink in, it feels traumatizing. It's really bad. Also weighing heavy....

Also weighing heavy on me are the efforts to put "determination of state election results" in partisan hands (i.e., state legislatures who are politicians), which would really screw up what's left of our democracy. To me, that's the most dangerous component of the many proposed (and some enacted) voter suppression laws. It's more than suppression, it gives the option to negate votes.

Arrgh!

Anyway, thanks for your words. I feel less alone in my upset.

[Warpy]

29. I'm hoping cases are being built against the main enablers

People like Ginni Thomas who provided buses for them need to pay the price for treason, and there is no way that woman can play dumb. She knew exactly who and what she was funding.

Much of the funding came through Bitcoin. The Feds cracked Tor, they can crack Bitcoin. I want those jokers to pay the price for funding treason.

I'm hoping cases are being built against Brooks, Biggs, Gosar, McCarthy, Cruz, and all the other Congressional enablers.

I doubt Dumdum will spend a day in jail, but I want him looking over his shoulder to see how close the Feds are for the rest of his miserable life, and I want it miserable.

People need to do hard time for this, and I'm not talking about the manipulated bozos at the bottom. A hell of a lot of money and planning went into this abomination. I want it tracked down.

[NJCher]

30. Pretty obvious you don't know diddly

About the justice system.

I don’t mean to insult you but litigation takes a long, long time. Anybody who has been through it will tell you that.

Right to a speedy trial? Let me just say this: early on that’s traded off. Suffice to say they have their ways.

Think 5-8 years each case.

Signed:

Someone who has been in it 30 years.

[hydrolastic]

31. My politics guru has pointed out

That when the Democrats did not call for witnesses in Trumps impeachment. It was all over. There may be a few prosecutions and fines and community service hours doled out. But for the most part the democratic motto seems to be. "time heals all wounds"

[Elessar Zappa]

33. I trust that the Democrats

knew what they were doing in regards to the impeachment. I see no evidence that Dems are letting this go.

[Atticus]

35. "Pretty obvious you don't know diddly about the justice system".

I'll just leave it with "You'd be very surprised".

And where did I limit my longing for justice to criminal convictions?

Why was there no OUTRAGE at the very thought of permitting the Congressionsl "aiders and abetters" to continue to serve after their open expression of approval of the insurrectionists goal?

Why is the Trumpist Arizona clown show being referred to by the media as "the fourth audit" of the ballots and covered daily by cable TV as though we were waiting to "find out who really won"?

Why are some of these violent rioters who we've watched on video as they savagely beat policemen being released?

These are just a few of the insults that do not require a legal conviction to rectify. As thoughtful people understand, "Is it just?" is a much broader inquiry than "Is it legal?"

It may be legal but how is it "just" that 70% of the Republican "party" insists that Joe Biden is not a legitimate POTUS and WE still deal with them AS THOUGH they were not traitorous Trump ass-kissers?

Your acceptance of "5-8 years each case" ignores the obligation imposed on government by the "social contract": we agree not to mete out our own personal version of justice because that obligation will be performed by our government. Many believe the government---and a society in thrall to a nasty minority---is not keeping it's part of the bargain. This IS a problem that repeated scoldings to "let the legal system work" will not solve.

Maybe this all boils down to "If Hawley and Cruz and Greene and Boebert are 'LEGITIMATE', what does it take to be illegitimate? Is there still a line beyond which which none dare go?"

[NJCher]

36. Longing for social justice: that's on you.

I have it, too. I just channel mine into organized work through groups devoted to those goals. I have both organized and led these groups and I've also joined some and worked for changes in the justice system through that method. If there is no group providing this, one needs to be formed.

Outrage: that's on us to pressure the legislators who represent us. Some of them did express outrage. We as voters need to support those people. They will know who else is likely to join in. Did you do that?

Regardless of the above, the investigations aren't finished yet. I don't think you can expect them to be thrown out of Congress without phone records and other supporting evidence, which I happen to know are being investigated as we speak.

Re clown show in AZ, the media I watch has been very good about covering it. I watch both CNN and MSNBC and have yet to hear them call it a fourth recount. I alsowatch CBS, NBC, and ABC nightly news.

Violent rioters being released: each case is individual. There is discretion for the judge. Judges don't always make the best decisions. Right now I am dealing with one who failed to read the jury instructions, yet the guy got sent to prison for 18 months. So the jury didn't even get instructions and as a result, wrongly sentenced this person to prison. What's he going to do about it? Well, in this case the person had money so he will probably get a settlement of some type, but how do you pay for 18 months taken out of a person's life? Nothing will replace that, no amount of money.

And if you don't have the money to sue the system, what happens to you?

Justice systems in rural areas, IMO, can be a joke. It's like they are "playing court." The justice system is very complicated and they don't/can't grasp it.

Re the 5-8 years, later I thought about the fact that there is photographic evidence, so that should shorten each case--in some cases considerably.

What I see is that you are complaining about the fact that these people are carrying on in Congress while they visibly support their insurrection. This is an important point, but you can't just expect this counter demonstration to happen spontaneously.

This can and should be remedied by public campaigns to keep the heat on. If you notice, the Dems have television commercials running now about the American Families and American Jobs plan. I can't see them doing a campaign on this issue because it would interfere with their forward thinking messaging, however, I think an ancilliary organization should do it. It should be planned and coordinated. We have the chance to get these people like Hawley et al out of government now and we should do it.

[Hortensis]

32. "Let"? Conservatives actually control more of this country than we do

even though "our" numbers are higher. And both RW extremism and sympathy for it are still rising. Also LW extremism, which is also hostile to continuation of our democracy as we know it.

If we hadn't gotten power in the house in 2018 or the presidency in 2020, we could now be seeing Democrats on trial for trumped up crimes, as millions are still demanding.

But we did, and for now, as the extremely old saying goes, the wheels of justice turn slowly, but... The DoJ reportedly estimates that approximately 500 people will be tried for their involvement in the violent insurrection at the Capitol.

[Kid Berwyn]

34. Golden Opportunity to set the record for history was lost.

Make the Congresswoman and McCarthy go on record, LIVE.

CNN: Trump Refused to Call Off Attackers

New details about Trump-McCarthy shouting match show Trump refused to call off the rioters

By Jamie Gangel, Kevin Liptak, Michael Warren and Marshall Cohen, CNN
Updated 6:50 PM ET, Fri February 12, 2021

In an expletive-laced phone call with House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy while the Capitol was under attack, then-President Donald Trump said the rioters cared more about the election results than McCarthy did.

"Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are," Trump said, according to lawmakers who were briefed on the call afterward by McCarthy.

McCarthy insisted that the rioters were Trump's supporters and begged Trump to call them off.

Trump's comment set off what Republican lawmakers familiar with the call described as a shouting match between the two men. A furious McCarthy told the President the rioters were breaking into his office through the windows, and asked Trump, "Who the f--k do you think you are talking to?" according to a Republican lawmaker familiar with the call.

Continues...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/12/politics/trump-mccarthy-shouting-match-details/index.html

Under oath and on prime time TV, along with those who attended the meetings to stand down the National Guard, etc. etc. etc.