The NRA was once the good guy.
The National Revolver Association, which was part of the NRA, proposed requiring a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Other aspects of the NRAs legislation: adding five years prison time if a gun was used in a crime, prohibiting the sale of a gun to a non-citizen, imposing a one-day waiting period before a purchaser could take possession of a gun, and opening records of gun sales to police. Nine states adopted the legislation.
I have told gunners for years that they are the ones best suited to write gun laws. Of course it fell on hostile ears. We will have sensible gun laws, laws the will reduce the number and kind of guns in circulation to a small fraction of what we have today. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but it will come and the gunners aren't going to be happy.
That's what happens when those who love a thing let others regulate it for them.
A History of the NRA
A short easy read and well worth the few minutes to better know who we are dealing with.
That's 59 years at least of blind obstruction
When I was n Jr High almost half of us took hunter education as sixth graders after school.
You don't have to teach target practice. With enough firepower, hitting the target isn't really a problem.
And killed moose, I disagree. Magnum rounds are too large for semi-autos. I have a .416 Rigby. You still need to hit where you aim.
Its hard to discern what people actually believe. Its hard to tell.
Wants to address your question.
I expect it will continue to be ignored; it leads into further uncomfortable reflection regarding if the present is different.
I don't think that's likely to happen for the foreseeable future.
Firearm laws are considerably less restrictive there than in many states in the USA.
Silencers: No special paperwork, fees, or waiting period. In the US, pay $200, lots of paperwork, and around 9 months for approval.
Large caliber weapons: Up to 20mm treated no differently than anything else. In the US, anything over 12.7mm is technically possible to own, but highly restricted in practice.
Concealed carry: If you can own a handgun, you can carry it concealed. In the US, a number of states (for practical purposes) don't issue concealed carry permits to "ordinary" citizens.
From the Wikipedia page you cited:
An applicant applies for a gun license at a designated local office of the National police. If the conditions of age, qualification, health clearance, criminal integrity and personal reliability are met and a fee of 700 CZK (US$ 30.52) per type is paid, the license shall be issued in thirty days. The license must be renewed every ten years (no need to undergo qualification exam if the application is filed at least two months before termination of the previous license; health clearance still necessary).
To obtain a B or C type license, the applicant must be at least 18 years old. Under special circumstances, the applicant need only be 15 if a member of a sporting club, or 16 if taught hunting in schools with such a curriculum. To obtain an A, D or E type license, the applicant must be 21.
Apart from gun legislation, the theoretical part of the exam focuses also on first aid
Field strip is usually required to demonstrate "safe handling"
Obtaining the license requires passing a theoretical and practical exam.
Theoretical exam: The theoretical exam consists of a written test of 30 multiple choice questions (Created and distributed by the Ministry of the Interior) with a maximum of 79 points possible. To pass the written exam, 67 points are needed for typey A, 71 for type B or C, and 74 for type D or E. The test deals with the following issues:
knowledge of firearms legislation,
knowledge of legislation related to legitimate use of firearm (e.g. self-defense),
general knowledge of firearms and ammunition, and
Safe handling: this comprises
inspecting, whether the firearm is loaded (safely unloading),
field stripping as needed for clean-up,
preparation of firearm and ammunition for shooting, shooting, procedure of handling the firearm in case of malfunction, conclusion of shooting.
Touching the trigger, pointing in different than appointed safe direction or trying to field strip loaded gun (dummy round is used) results in the applicant failing the exam. Depending on the types of licenses sought, applicants may be asked to show their ability of safe manipulation on multiple firearms (typically CZ 75 and/or CZ 82 pistol, bolt-action CZ 452 rifle and a double-barreled shotgun).
Shooting test, which requires specific scores dependent on the type of license applied for:
For the B type license it is 25m on rifle target (A4 sheet sized) with 4 out of 5 rounds hitting the target sheet shooting from a rifle (2 out of five for A type). .22 Long Rifle chambered rifle is used. Alternatively, an applicant can shoot a pistol on 50/20 pistol target at 10 m.
For the C type license, the applicant must fires at 25m with a rifle (same as cat. B) and also successfully hit the rifle target from the distance of 25m shooting from a shotgun (Usually double-barreled), 3 out of 4 rounds must hit the target (at least partially).
For the E type license, the applicant must successfully hit the international pistol target 50/20 (50 cm x 50 cm) from a distance of 10m (15m for D type license) shooting from a pistol, 4 out of 5 rounds must hit the sheet (2 out of 5 for A type).
In each of the cases above, the actual score is irrelevant; the projectiles simply have to hit the target sheet within the circles. Also in each case, the applicant is allowed 3 test shots to familiarize with the particular firearm used for the test. The shotgun is an exception to this, where only one round is allowed as a test shot.[36
I wouldn't object to the indiscriminate gun ownership in the US if every gun owner went through the same process before obtaining a firearm.
could as well.
The fact remains that on the whole, the average citizen of the Czech Republic has considerably greater access to a wider variety of firearms than those in some US states such as California, New Jersey, New York, etc.
on the internet with no background check. And it's legal.
How freakin' restrictive is that? Forget 'ghost guns' . . .
or a number of other states.
In every state in the US, purchasing a silencer requires one to file paperwork & fingerprints with the FBI, wait almost a year for approval, and pay $200 for the privilege. How freakin' restrictive is that? By way of comparison, in the Czech Republic they're sold over the counter.
That the Czech Republic's gun laws are less restrictive than ours in some respects is undeniable.
And then there's ghost guns.
Nice diversion to silencers which have been nowhere in this conversation. Silly attempt at what-aboutism and a total fail but ya' tried.
Was that not sufficiently clear?
Nice diversion to silencers which have been nowhere in this conversation. Silly attempt at what-aboutism and a total fail but ya' tried.
You are the only person in this thread who has mentioned "ghost guns". Does that count as a diversion?
As for silencers, I'm not the only person who has mentioned them.
A total fail on your part, but credit where it's due...ya' tried.
Anyhoo, I'm out of here. It's going to be almost 100 degrees in Denver for the next few days, so I'm off to the mountains to cool off!
No local restrictions on assault weapons . Also, unless Im mistaken, much easier to own short barreled rifles.
a 30 day wait period. The same goes for "assault rifles", and since the Czech Republic is not a federation, all national gun laws and regulations extend to local municipalities.
You have succeeded in outlining some differences between Czech laws and US laws, but they don't amount to more lax gun laws. Each example you cited is preceded by, and therefore includes, the stringent mandatory process a prospective gun owner must undertake before obtaining ANY firearm, which is far more rigorous than anything in the US. Silencers, "assault weapons", "shall issue", short barreled rifles, etc., are all appended and conditional to obtaining this initial qualification. Over the counter silencers in themselves do not indicate unrestricted availability.
Ok, I will admit, my question is not really fair, because it forces you to compare apples to oranges. But even a cursory look at the Czech gun laws leave no doubt that, in aggregate and in the particulars, they are far more stringent than those in the US.
In the Czech Republic, if you don't, you can't have a gun. Period. Not an option. Theirs is the difference between responsible gun ownership and having no responsibilities attached to gun ownership. I am all in favor of responsible gun ownership. When "could" becomes "must" in the US, I will have no problems with guns or gun owners.
I don't think more than 2% would fail to pass.
To look further, silencers are available over the counter in the Czech Republic. Concealed carry permits are shall issue and there are no "gun free zones." Approximately 81% of Czech gun owners licenses allow them to concealed carry.
Do you still have no objection to Czech style laws?
So that alone takes us over the 2% who would be ineligible to own guns. Additionally, there are matters of "qualification, health clearance, criminal integrity and personal reliability" that must be met. Different types of firearms would require separate licenses. A 30 day wait period. Registration is required for every firearm. Special permit for silencers. Passing theoretical and practical exams alone will likely weed out hordes of morons with a gun fetish who only want to play "patriots" and "liberators". The AR15 freaks would likely not know how to handle a .22 caliber long rifle described in the test requirements. And don't even get me started on health clearance, which must be undertaken every 10 years.
And the Wikipedia link doesn't even mention the severity of penalties which await the violators.
Yeah, safeguards like these would likely eliminate up to 90% of human casualties incurred by firearms in the US, and I will have no objections to Czech style laws. In fact, I would welcome them.
To sell to people under 18 (with a few limited exceptions) most of those guns would actually depend on the parents to purchase them. I highly doubt you will find that 2% in the under 18 crowd.
As for health etc. unless you are setting standards that are way above average (which would have Constitutional issues) the majority are going to fly through.
The unsubstantiated commentary about intelligence and that someone who owns an AR being unable to figure out a 22LR is simply bias and not worthy of further comment.
I'm not sure what you mean by penalties, usually the only penalty for failing to pass the requirements for getting a license is not getting the license.
Let's assume however a ridiculous percentage fail the tests. Based on an estimated 72 million gun owners a 25% fail rate would reduce that number to 54 million. Given the Czech ratio about 43 million of those would then be able to carry concealed. There would be no restrictions on carry in schools, bars, etc and public buildings would have to provide secure storage for firearms if they wish to prohibit them on premises. It is estimated as of 2018 the US has 17 million concealed carry permits issued.
If all of that adds up to a 90% reduction in firearms related death/ injury sign me up. I will personally carry that bill on a velvet pillow to Biden for his signature. But first I would like to check your math.
private hands, I invite you to come back to this thread and mock me until the end of time for my lack of precognition.
Drag out your precious and and shout Come and TAKE IT in front of Federal Marshals and see how it works out.
Yeah, be a tough guy. See how it works against the forces of the United States of America.
Don't save all the Confederate money, Boy, the South ain't gonna rise again . . . ever.
I invite you to put your body where your words are.
I simply expressed the opinion that the chances of the government confiscating the vast majority of firearms in civilian hands is virtually nil. Your reaction was to invite me to get myself killed resisting such an action.
That doesnt speak well of you.
It certainly seemed to indicate that any attempt to 'confiscate' guns in the US would result in violent opposition.
Given the proliferation of militant gun groups like:
Not Fucking Around Coalition
Arizona Border Recon
Idaho Light Foot Militia
Militia of Montana
Missouri Citizens Militia
New York Light Foot Militia
Ohio Defense Force
Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia
Texas Light Foot Militia
it isn't surprising that one might jump to that conclusion.
a virtual certainty. The question is, what percentage of gun owners would violently resist such an attempt? 10%? 1%? Less?
Be that as it may, I was objecting to your comment which was made towards me on a personal basis, given that I have never made the slightest indication that I would resist in such a manner.
I should violently engage the US government, likely resulting in my death?
Not to mention calling me boy .
and is a misquote, should have read 'Boys'. Referred to confederate soldiers and the worthless money they were paid with. It was NOT a racial slur.
Secondly I was responding to a post I took as aggressive and explained to you why.
I am weary of spoon feeding you information.
Accept my apology or not, I'm done.
Things change and like Dylan said, the times they are a changin' . . .
I have heard from many very strong proponents of gun control that nobody is talking about confiscation and indeed nobody wants to confiscate guns.
Confiscation is just an NRA talking point to scare up more members.
But that doesnt stop certain politicians from saying it to varying degrees (like Beto, Pelosi, Biden) which only further enforces the 2a crowds paranoia on the subject. There is also no shortage of people in this forum specifically who would be in favor of it which also helps muddy the waters from ANY type of mutual policies from happening in fear of the "slippery slope" argument.
sell their guns to the government or keep them and become criminals who forfeit some rights like the right to own a gun.
For the US we have a mechanism in place; eminent domain. Seizing property with some form of compensation for the benefit of the country at large. We do it with land a lot to build highways or, lately, a wall. It can be used with guns.
Chuck Norris, Larry Craig, Allen West, gun profiteers, etc.
Don't think the list above has been updated since 2016.
it so fundamentally changed how guns are viewed in America that just getting back to where we were in 1993 would be very difficult. It opened up the floodgates to liberalizing gun laws in America as the gun control groups were not prepared for the inevitable NRA counter-attack.
currently in private hands would almost certainly be many millions fewer.
The NRA of today is a reaction. It's hard to say what will happen in the future.
From 1967 - 1994 we saw tightening gun control at the federal and state levels. A good 24-year run.
Then we the pendulum swing to loosening of federal laws (really just the AWB sunsetting), but state laws really changed. It was a good run from 1994-2018 -- 24 years.
The Stoneman Douglas mass shooting was a pivotal event where we saw changes in state laws -- red flag laws took off in popularity. But on the other hand, we see the loosening of gun laws too such as permitless carry.
These next 20 years are going to differ from previous eras.
Right wing political organization in 1995, with their "Jack Booted Thugs" letter, referring to Federal agents, carrying out their duty
against right-wing terrorists. I now see the NRA as the armed wing of the Republican Party; a bunch of Brown Shirts, in coats and ties.
The NRA used to be for sportsmen, hunters and gun safety.
Now it has become an industry owned shill for the sale of more guns and the enrichment of its leaders.
...the best program the NRA has is Eddie Eagle, a gun safety program for children. It teaches them that if they see a gun, dont touch it and tell an adult. It does not teach them to shoot the things.
who have had Eddie Eagle training and those who have not. Not saying it's a bad idea, just that it sadly doesn't work.
at the expense of the NRA's viability.
The nut jobs took over both.
Im no longer associated with either.