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Tue Jun 15, 2021, 11:24 AM

U.S. GDP is 20.93 trillion. Russian GDP is 1.7 trillion. Why are we messing around w/ Putin at all?

Is it the nuclear weapons? We give him way too much attention and he loves it. He basks in it. The press can't stop talking about him.


Interesting exchange between Michael McCaul and Gary Kasparov.



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Should the Russian president opt instead to continue invading countries, mounting hacking and disinformation campaigns, and arresting innocent Russians and Americans, it will be clear that he, not Biden, is responsible for confrontation with the United States. 2/

Biden is also right to try to work with the Kremlin on a limited agenda of mutual interest, particularly on arms control. Even during tense moments of the Cold War, U.S. presidents saw the wisdom in cooperating with their Soviet counterparts to reduce the risk of nuclear war. 3/


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Thread:

Mike, is this tweet from 2007?! This is what the West has been saying for 14 years. "If Putin keeps doing all these terrible things, THEN.." and he keeps doing them. It's 2021, everyone knows what Putin is.

Every new US administration doesn't press the reset button, they press the snooze button. Putin doesn't reset, he doesn't change, and he won't until someone stands up to him

Putin goes through the same motions with every new democratic leader. They get to act tough for a moment; he gets to stay in power and keep looting Russia, attacking the world order, and his mafia pals live like tsars--in the free world of course.

What are these "democratic forces" to protect in Putin's Russia, in 2021? You can't support democracy and empower the dictator killing it at the same time. Meet Zelensky & Tsikhanouskaya. Meet Nemtsov & Navalny's families. Not their assailant.




I'm not an expert in foreign policy and I suppose there are reasons but I really hate that we're meeting with Putin at all.

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Reply U.S. GDP is 20.93 trillion. Russian GDP is 1.7 trillion. Why are we messing around w/ Putin at all? (Original post)
JoanofArgh Jun 2021 OP
ansible Jun 2021 #1
no_hypocrisy Jun 2021 #2
GoCubsGo Jun 2021 #3
JoanofArgh Jun 2021 #7
Jim__ Jun 2021 #4
JoanofArgh Jun 2021 #9
NCDem47 Jun 2021 #5
JoanofArgh Jun 2021 #11
StClone Jun 2021 #6
JoanofArgh Jun 2021 #12
cally Jun 2021 #8
hatrack Jun 2021 #10
GoodRaisin Jun 2021 #13
Ron Green Jun 2021 #14
Caliman73 Jun 2021 #16
Ron Green Jun 2021 #18
Caliman73 Jun 2021 #22
Caliman73 Jun 2021 #15
Buckeyeblue Jun 2021 #17
ProfessorGAC Jun 2021 #20
Klaralven Jun 2021 #19
uponit7771 Jun 2021 #21

Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 11:25 AM

1. Russia's pretty much a rogue state in a world all on its own

 

Sanctions don't really affect them much, they have their own internal economy, closed off internet and simply don't care that much about anything else but Russia and their neighbors.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 11:37 AM

2. My guess: Putin has dossiers on everyone.

J. Edgar would be envenious.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 11:38 AM

3. That, and nukes. nt

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 11:47 AM

7. And it would take A LOT to make J. Edgar envious, lol.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 11:40 AM

4. Putin has the potential to cause a lot of havoc if he tries to re-establish Russia's influence ...

... in Eastern Europe. Trying to build a relationship and establish some restraints on him now is probably well worth the effort.

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Response to Jim__ (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 12:17 PM

9. Good point. I just wish we could do it quietly so the attention's not all on him.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 11:43 AM

5. Largest country in land mass + huge nuclear arsenal

Add in friendly to other rogue nations and China and itís a force we cannot ignore.

Plus, they just like to stir shit up with democracies.

Someone correct me if Iím wrong here, but they have a long history of thuggish behavior. Itís part of their culture.

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Response to NCDem47 (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 12:19 PM

11. More good points. I just hate that the press is giving him so much attention, which he loves, after

he interfered in our election . He might have done irreparable harm to our country.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 11:44 AM

6. This point is one I have pushed

Putin has little big-man syndrome. He is as small and insignificant as a country leader could be, but wants to be the biggest of players not much different thanks Kim Jong-un. His toxic way of getting that is by thugging up, nukes and Mafioso. Trailer Park trash master of Russia, with nukes, where the cops always have to breakup loud escalating bs to keep the peace.

Russian people themselves have many positive attributes (Science, athletics, dance, literature, art) and are, as a people, being subjugated and eroded, so to keep Pootey's appetite for control in-place.

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Response to StClone (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 12:21 PM

12. Agree.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 12:11 PM

8. Russia provides oil to Europe

Plus nukes. But we seem to let him control us and our elections.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 12:19 PM

10. Nukes, energy supply to the EU, willingness to invade, threaten and murder . . .

But as an economic player, meh.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 12:38 PM

13. The nukes.

Otherwise, ignoring him on world stage would be best.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 12:47 PM

14. GDP of $20Trillion? Is that true?

Then where is universal health care? Where are high-speed passenger trains?

Somebodyís gettiní screwed.

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Response to Ron Green (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 01:03 PM

16. The US has been an economic powerhouse since the late 19th and for sure, the 20th centuries.

Universal health care, high speed rail, built out broadband for everyone, free or very low priced higher education and vocational training for all who want it, are all in the same place. The pockets of some EXTREMELY wealthy people and corporations who think that it would be immoral to provide the vital services to the average person.

We know exactly who is getting screwed because it is the same group of people who have been getting screwed since the 1600's and since the US became a nation in the 1780's.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 01:51 PM

18. Sounds like it's time for some CRT,

or at least truth-telling in history class.

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Response to Ron Green (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 04:37 PM

22. Definitely.

I would wager that less than 10% of people in the US had heard of the Tulsa Massacre until this year, and I would wager that less than 25% still know about that AND the multitude of other incidents where White people, just because Black people were getting ahead, decided that those Black people needed to be burned out, chased out of their neighborhoods, or killed.

Our expansion westward, took place at the expense of people who had been living in those spaces for centuries, if not thousands of years. Those people are portrayed as "hostile savages" bent on marauding and preying upon poor settlers (pioneers!) who just wanted their lot in life to improve, yet we have shit on every other immigrant group that has come to the US or have taken, by war, the lands belonging to other nations.

Conservatives do not want history taught in classrooms. They want mythology taught.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 12:51 PM

15. GDP alone, does not denote one's power in the world.

Israel has a GDP of about 320 billion dollars a year and look at how important Israel is in US politics and in world events.

Russia has a very large military, highly capable cyber warfare, they supply much of Europe's natural gas, and yes, they have a stockpile of nuclear weapons that could wipe out the world.

Not that they would use them, because they would be ensuring their own complete destruction, but they are there.

There are definitely reasons to meet with Russia. Partly to make sure Putin understands that Biden will not capitulate like Trump did.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 01:07 PM

17. It's the nukes, their crumbling infrastructure, energy and China

Putin is crazy but if he dropped dead tomorrow, how destabilized would Russia be. If we thought for sure someone better would take over we would make that happen. My guess is a Putin flunky would take over and might be a wild card.

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Response to Buckeyeblue (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 02:46 PM

20. That's It!

Mostly it's the nukes.
They bankrupted the USSR to build an unnecessarily large military-industrial complex, and now that's almost all they've got.
(Yeah, oil, titanium, & platinum, but that's puny by comparison.)
Now, given the lineage of their leadership, being a rogue state with a crazy destructive potential makes them relevant.
Not a good reason, but THE reason.

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 02:05 PM

19. Because they won't let our banks and corporations take over their economy?

 

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Response to JoanofArgh (Original post)

Tue Jun 15, 2021, 03:35 PM

21. This was Germany's relative GDP at the time they invaded Europe

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