No point vaccinating those who've had COVID-19: Findings of Cleveland Clinic study

[WarGamer]

First of all... it's a non peer reviewed, MedRxiv study review for now...

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210608/No-point-vaccinating-those-whoe28099ve-had-COVID-19-Findings-of-Cleveland-Clinic-study.aspx

But the data is quite interesting. A larger sample size and a more thorough analysis is in order.

The study was conducted on 52,238 employees in the Cleveland Clinic. A positive RT-PCR test was considered to define SARS-CoV-2 infection. The participants received two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine at an interval of 28 days. A participant was considered vaccinated after 14 days of receiving the 2nd vaccine dose. Similarly, a participant who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 at least 42 days before the vaccination initiation was considered previously infected.

Of all enrolled participants, 5% had previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. Compared to 59% of non-infected participants, only 47% of previously infected participants were vaccinated by the end of the study. About 63% of all vaccinated participants received the Moderna vaccine.

...snip

Importantly, not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination.

[LovingA2andMI]

1. Never has been....

n/t

[LetMyPeopleVote]

2. My youngest was an election judge for the 2020 general election

She counted 20 unmasked voters in the first hour. A week later she lost her sense of taste but tested negative on one COVID test. We self isolated in my home for two weeks and I was symptom free. Several months later she got her second Moderna vaccine injection and briefly ran a 104 degree fever which doctors told us was consistent with having a mild case back in November

I am happy that she got the vaccine. According to my pulmonary doctor the vaccine generates even more antibodies than normal for persons not exposed to COVID.

[blogslug]

3. That study also points out it did not involve Covid 19 variants that have appeared since

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2.full-text

...The study has its limitations. Because we did not have a policy of asymptomatic employee screening, previously infected subjects who remained asymptomatic might have been misclassified as previously uninfected. Given this limitation, one should be cautious about drawing conclusions about the protective effect of prior asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection. It should be noted though, that 12% of the subjects classified as previously infected did not have a symptom onset date recorded, suggesting that at least some of those classified as previously infected might have been asymptomatic infections. It is reassuring that none of these possibly asymptomatically infected individuals developed COVID-19 during the duration of the study. The study follow-up duration was short, being only five months, but this was longer than published mRNA vaccine efficacy studies [1,2], and longer than the follow-up duration of the largest published vaccine effectiveness studies to date [3,4]. Median freedom from reinfection (time from initial infection until end of follow-up) in this study, for those previously infected, of almost 10 months, is consistent with findings in an earlier study that immunoglobulin G (IgG) to the spike protein remained stable over more than six months after an episode of infection [16]. Our study included no children and few elderly subjects, and the majority would not have been immunosuppressed. Data governance policies in our institution precluded us from obtaining detailed clinical information on employees. While one cannot generalize this study’s findings to assume that prior infection would provide adequate immunity in these groups, there is also no reason to expect a vaccine to provide additional protection in these same groups. Lastly, it is necessary to emphasize that these findings are based on the prevailing assortment of virus variants in the community during the study. It is not known how well these results will hold if or when some of the newer variants of concern become prominent. However, if prior infection does not afford protection against some of the newer variants of concern, there is little reason to suppose that the currently available vaccines would either. Vaccine breakthrough infections with variants have indeed been reported...

[FreepFryer]

4. Amazing, given this seemingly contradictory finding.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/17/previous-covid-infection-may-not-offer-long-term-protection-study-finds

Previous infection with coronavirus does not necessarily protect against Covid in the longer term, especially when caused by new variants of concern, a study on healthcare workers suggests.

Researchers at Oxford University found marked differences in the immune responses of medical staff who contracted Covid, with some appearing far better equipped than others to combat the disease six months later.

Scientists on the study, conducted with the UK Coronavirus Immunology Consortium, said the findings reinforced the importance of everyone getting vaccinated regardless of whether they had been infected with the virus earlier in the pandemic.

“If you look at the trajectory of the immune response after infection, mostly it is still detectable six months later, but it’s highly variable between people,” said Eleanor Barnes, a professor of hepatology and experimental medicine at Oxford and a senior author on the study.

[lagomorph777]

19. That's what I've heard. Re-infections are relatively common.

Due to variants, and probably due to behavioral patterns.

[Doremus]

33. It would be interesting to know the number of study participants.

In the Clinic study it was a large sample of +/- 57K. A finding of zero reinfections is interesting in light of those large numbers.

[Scrivener7]

5. I have read that some of the long term residual effects of Covid are mitigated by the vaccine.

That some people find relief in the vaccine.

[obamanut2012]

6. I'm one of them

I have gotten back almost all of my sense of taste since I've been vaxxed (Moderna). My first shot was mid March, and I had a noticeable improvement within two weeks, more since the second shot.

In addition, I had some annoying gastrointestinal long-haul issues, and they are about 50% better now.

[Scrivener7]

8. So glad to hear it! I can't imagine getting over this thing and then having

to keep dealing with debilitating effects.

[obamanut2012]

10. I'm at least one of the lucky ones

No cardio or lung, issues, and little fatigue flareups.

I know an ultrarunner who can't even run a quarter mile anymore, and has trouble it. It's terrible.

[Scrivener7]

11. Glad you came through it.

[obamanut2012]

12. Thanks, my friend!

I had a "mild case," which means I was dead sick for two weeks, and couldn't walk up steps for six weeks.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. That's Interesting

I had not heard of such therapeutic effects of the vax.
Even if your experience is rare, 1 in a hundred sort of thing, it's still really positive.
Glad you're continuing to recover!

[JCMach1]

14. It retriggered some of mine and set back my recovery by months

Covid can be highly idiosyncratic...

[Scrivener7]

16. Wow. Which makes it so much harder to know the right thing to do.

Sorry that happened to you.

[JCMach1]

20. I still think the positives outweigh the negatives... I took it to insure immunity

I am finally back to something resembling normalcy and can actually search for a new job now.

I was essentially disabled since October 2020.

[Scrivener7]

21. Best of luck with the job search. Let us know when you get one!

[Blue_true]

31. I read an article about a woman that was a recreational swimmer.

She apparently was a competitive swimmer when younger, but she was doing 100 lap per session recreational stuff.

Then she got COVID19 and it messed her up, like could not go to the mailbox at the end of her driveway or climb 4 stairs messed up.

Then she got vaxxed with either Pfizer or Moderna, I don’t remember which. She noticed improvement immediately and is back to lap swimming.

[obamanut2012]

7. My long-haul effects have lessened greatly since I was vaxxed

I have gotten back almost all of my sense of taste since I've been vaxxed (Moderna). My first shot was mid March, and I had a noticeable improvement within two weeks, more since the second shot.

In addition, I had some annoying gastrointestinal long-haul issues, and they are about 50% better now.

And, I am not the only one.

So, yeah, everyone should be vaccinated.

[helpisontheway]

18. Right...I think I had Covid last spring..

No tests available so I can’t say for sure. However, I had gastro issues for many months after I was ill. My symptoms gradually went away after I was vaccinated.

[Treefrog]

9. Oh well. I got vaccinated despite having had the virus.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

13. This is the same study quoted by Rand Paul

As a general rule of thumb, Rand Paul is never right on any issue and this is true here also
https://www.rawstory.com/rand-paul-appears-to-be-confused-about-19-again/

First, the study is far too small to be taken seriously

However, Dr. George Rutherford, an epidemiologist at the University of California-San Francisco, wrote in an email that he would add one caveat to the wording of Paul's tweet: “Note that in his tweet Senator Paul seems to suggest that the denominator of previously infected health care workers at the Cleveland Clinic was 52,238 — that was the total number in the whole study. There were 1,359 that were previously infected and never vaccinated, and there were no reinfections noted over a median follow up of 143 days. So, the tweet itself is accurate if read literally but the denominator is really 1,359."

The consensus right now is that it is best for COVID survivors to be vaccinated.

First, though natural immunity appears to be very effective against the current dominant U.S. variant (known as alpha), it also appears weaker than vaccine immunity against some of the variants circulating, such as the delta variant, first detected in India. That means if those variants eventually become dominant in the U.S., people relying on natural immunity would be less protected than those who are vaccinated.

Second, there is a lack of data about whether natural immunity prevents asymptomatic transmission and infection. Several other studies, though, show vaccines do.

Third, Crotty said his studies have shown that levels of natural immunity can vary widely in individuals. His team even found a hundredfold difference in the number of immune cells among people.

“If you thought about the immune system as a basketball game and you thought about that as a team scoring 1 point, and another team scoring 100 points, that's a big difference," said Crotty. “We're not so confident that people at the low end of immunity levels would be as protected against covid-19."

But those who receive a vaccine shot have a much more consistent number of immune cells, since everyone receives the same dose amount, said Crotty.

With all that in mind, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that those who previously had covid-19 should get vaccinated and receive both doses of a vaccine, whether it's the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine. Fauci, the nation's leading infectious disease expert, reiterated this message during a White House covid-19 briefing last month.

This may be the rare time where Rand Paul may be right but I am not holding my breath. Even my youngest child who may have had a mild case of COVID are all vaccinated

[Kingofalldems]

23. Ahhh,now I understand.

[Ms. Toad]

15. My take on it is the numbers are too small -

and the time period too short to tell much of anything.

The relevant population (vaccinated & previosuly infected) was approximately 1220 people. Given the varying times that these individuals had to be exposed it is hard to gauge long-term effectiveness, especially since the vaccine effectivenes (based on this trial) would have been 99.3% (when we know the actual effectiveness is about 95%). I'm not terribly impressed that not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination - since we know breakthrough cases happen. (In recent days a DU member lost a father to a breakthrough case, and another as at least 2 breakthrough cases in her family with serious long-term consequences.) So a study that shows no breakthrough cases isn't large enough (or long enough) to capture the true picture.

[CrackityJones75]

17. Had Covid in Sept. Vaxed in March.

Pretty glad I did get vaxed.

[WarGamer]

22. I don't see the argument against vax...

Honestly, what's the harm?

It has less side effects than many OTC meds...
Just do it.

[CrackityJones75]

24. Neither do I.

I have no idea why people wouldn’t get it done.

[WarGamer]

25. My Moderna #2 sucked

1 day of flu like symptoms and 3 days of cold like symptoms.

But then it was done... I'm FREE!!

[CrackityJones75]

28. I had a little issue with fatigue.

About 2 weeks after the shot I felt really tired and exhausted. But who knows that could have been allergies too.

[WarGamer]

30. I felt literally NOTHING after shot #1

except a sore arm for 48h

Second one... oh boy!!

[Blue_true]

32. The people that don't want to get vaxxed after having covid19

are typically people that were Covid deniers to start with. So, it is mostly political, IMO.

[Wingus Dingus]

26. I'd still get vaccinated, because it's turning into something very different

(at least symptom and transmissibility-wise) than the version that infected people during 2020 and early 2021. I'd get a booster for those variants, or just for continued antibodies if needed, too.

[WarGamer]

27. definitely...

Having those little spike protein assassins inside me makes me feel badass.

lol...