Hoping for some advice talking to unvaccinated cousin

[Saoirse9]

My favorite cousin, who used to be my best friend, has not had the vaccine. She's a wonderful, optimistic, lovely woman, completely apolitical, but her husband turned into a trumper a few years ago. We have become estranged because of that. I'm so busy with work and other things and I try not to think bout the fact that I never hear from her anymore.

I want to have a gathering at my house and invite all the friends who were included on a couple of group vacations about 16 years ago. They were epic vacations and we all still talk about them. Over the years this group of close friends drifted apart and I would like to have at least one get together with them as a group to reminisce. My cousin was one of the people in the group. We were all divorced and single back then but all of us have remarried.

She's refused the vaccine so far because she says she thinks she had covid in December of 2019 and would therefore be immune. No test and no antibody check, but she thinks she had it.

Talking to her aunt, another member of the group, she wants me to tell my cousin that I want a reunion and some aren't comfortable being indoors with unvaccinated people and I REALLY want them to come.

I am not known for my tact. In fact I'm known for the exact opposite, speaking my mind whether others want to hear my opinion or not. So I am composing an email and I've been though 3 drafts, cannot find a tactful way to tell her that other people who will be invited to the reunion will probably not come if I invite her and her husband.

Any advice appreciated.

[Shermann]

1. How is it that everybody knows her vaccination status?

If she is proudly broadcasting that bit of information, it may be hopeless.

[Saoirse9]

5. No not broadcasting

I live in a tiny town and we all know each other's business. Plus she is a cousin so . . . even if it weren't a small town I would still know.

[Shermann]

13. I'd state the pickle you are in

Your preference would be a "don't ask, don't tell" vaccination scenario for the get-together.

But since the group has apparently deduced her status, that isn't an option.

[Saoirse9]

18. Yes I wouldn't ever do "don't ask don't tell"

Virus is deadly. I would never risk someone else's health or life.

[Shermann]

24. Well there's no such thing as zero risk

If the rest of the group is vaccinated, then the risk is already very low according to the CDC.

If the group wants to prioritize de-risking it even further over having the full get-together (still not zero risk), then that is your prerogative. I'm not judging.

[Saoirse9]

26. I am 61 years old

Everyone in the group except for one guy is much older than that.

I just won't risk it.

[womanofthehills]

60. I have a best friend who 's husband is a Trumper & she listens to him

We are still best friends. We agree not to talk politics. I see her all the time. Also, have your party outside - which will be safer because there is no guarantee a vaxed person will not have the virus.

[Saoirse9]

70. At one time

before the pandemic, I scolded her son and her husband about their trump worship. Severely. Must've been late 2018 early 2019, can't remember. I let her son have it with both barrels.

So they don't speak to me. And I suppose she just figures that its the usual Saoirse running off at the mouth and sides with her son and his stepfather. We did, before the pandemic, see each other occasionally always at my request.

[secondwind]

2. OK... how about

Dear (blank),

I hope you and the family are happy and well. I'm planning a get together for (date and time), and I would love for you to be there.

If you've been vaccinated, please do come.... Looking forward to seeing you once again,

[Saoirse9]

6. thank you

[SharonClark]

3. Your aunt is on the right track.

Just state to everyone that proof of vaccinations is required and you'll miss seeing everyone who isn't vaccinated.

Quit pussy footing around.

[Saoirse9]

9. I never pussy foot around

That's the problem! I'm not tactful. I put my foot in my mouth about once a day.

[leftstreet]

4. How do you know she's the only one not vaxxed?

of all the people in the group from 16 years ago

[Saoirse9]

7. COUSIN

[leftstreet]

10. Oh

I'd read that you were estranged, so I didn't know how you knew

[Saoirse9]

11. Because I speak to other family members

and they all know she won't take the vaccine.

[leftstreet]

14. Got it n/t

[Blues Heron]

8. Tell them straight up - no vax, no party. Full stop.

Don't blame it on your other guests, tell her YOU don't want her around if she's unvaxxed. Whether she had it before is irrelevant because you can get it twice.

[stillcool]

12. Tell her aunt to tell her...

why is she putting it on you? If the aunt didn't speak to you, would you have known?

[Saoirse9]

15. It's my party

And the aunt has tried to talk to her for months. She's hoping since my cousin and I used to be so close that I can be persuasive.

[stillcool]

39. ah well, I'd go with secondwind's suggestion

and I hope you have a safe and really nice party!

[Saoirse9]

40. Thanks. Email sent. Stomach in knots.

I hope she doesn't freak out.

[Saoirse9]

16. Her aunt is a nurse

And her opinions usually have a lot of sway with her family. I am very puzzled about why she isn't listening to her now.

Her aunt is one of the people in the reunion group. There is only 4 years age difference between so they are more like sisters or cousins.

[BGBD]

21. It may be

That your formerly apolitical cousin is much more radicalized than anyone knows. Living through quarantine with a Trumper, and without her own strong political beliefs, could do that quickly. Could be even worse when you consider social media and other online activities.

Honestly anyone refusing to get the vaccine at this point is either rabid anti Vax or is doing so because of allegiance to Trump.

[Saoirse9]

23. Oh God I hope not

But I have a sinking feeling you're right.

[dawg day]

17. Covid immunity probably doesn't last a year and a half.

Tell her she needs a "booster" shot to boost the immunity she thinks she has (but probably doesn't).

I've been using kids and grandkids as a reason not to hang with the unvaxxed--
"Sorry, my kids are too young for the vaccination, so I'm keeping them safe until they can get the shot. You understand. We'll all do anything to keep our kids safe, won't we?"

This works even if you don't have kids-- you can say, my neighbor's kids, or my nieces. And it's all true! We can only keep the kids safe if we get the shot ourselves.

[Saoirse9]

19. I don't have kids or grandkids or nephews and nieces that live nearby

I suppose I could say that I plan to visit nieces or nephews. But it wouldn't be true.

[dawg day]

20. You do have neighbors with kids, no doubt.

There'll be a schoolful of them in town. Every kid who gets Covid from now on is getting it because some adult refused to get vaccinated.
So go with 'the neighbor kids."

They're all our kids too.

[Saoirse9]

22. I work at a school

but kids are out for summer and I spend no time with my neighbors who have kids.

[dawg day]

25. Oh, and I heard that people on immune-suppressants aren't as protected by the vaccine often-

I used to be on one of those drugs, not anymore, but I really don't know how immune I and others like me might be.

So everyone else getting fully vaxxed helps protect those, and also the people who can't get a vax now because they're under treatment for some conditions.

But... I kind of wish you'd just let your frankness fly! "Sorry, cuz. You're making your choice, and I'm making mine. No unvaxxed at the party."

I'm more a hemmer and hawer, so I admire you for being more candid!

[Saoirse9]

58. We exchanged emails.

We were both very civil. She said she understood that people want to follow all the guidelines but she's "never been in that mode." WTF?

I told her that some people I wanted to invite were worried about being close to unvaccinated people. We all know each other pretty well so she can guess who I am talking about.

I told her the story of a friend who lost her husband to covid week before last. I told her I loved her and asked her to please be safe.

I won't be seeing her any time soon and that is really sad. Back in the day we were in and out of each other's houses every day. Told each other everything.

I gave it my best shot and I didn't let my temper get away from me. Nothing more I can do.

[Phoenix61]

27. Second Winds response was spot on.

As soon as you start to explain you are giving away your power. It’s your house and you can have whatever rules you want. No shoes on? Have to keep shoes on? Whatever you like. Everyone else is free to come to your home or not.

[Saoirse9]

28. Really good points thank you

[MLAA]

29. It's your home, and your policy not to have anyone who is unvaccinated in it.

Love to see her along with the rest of the gang, but only if she has both vaccinations and passed the two week after point. With the new even more contagious variant, this policy is essential to the safety of all attending.

[Saoirse9]

33. Yes I see that now

I initially considered inviting her and warning the other guests but first I checked with the one guest who I knew would be worried about the virus.

He was really uncomfortable. I shouldn't have even thought of putting him on the spot that way.

[Bayard]

30. I suspect her husband trumps you (so to speak)

She has been assimilated now. Can you call her? Its more personal. Invite her to the party. Then ask her if she's been vaccinated. If she says no, say you're sorry, but, the older people at your party can't take the chance, even though they are vaccinated.

My brother has not seen his first grand kid since she was born, a beautiful baby girl. She was a year old in May. My niece refuses to let him until he gets vaccinated. She, and her husband, are Dems. My brother is a Fox devotee. His wife and son have both been vaccinated. I love him dearly, no matter what (our 3 siblings and parents all passed), and miss him, but I've told him he can't come here either until he's vaccinated.

Pretty sad.

[dawg day]

32. Good for your niece for prioritizing the baby's health.

I cannot believe a granddad would choose Trump-bile over his grandchild, but that's his choice.

[Saoirse9]

34. Can't call

She is profoundly hard of hearing, wears hearing aids and mostly lip reads. She does text and email for communication.

As a result she lives in her own world. I suspect you're right. Her husband has trumped me already. If I wasn't worried about him there would just be no problem discussing this or any other sticky situation with her.

[Shermann]

38. It may not be an assimilation story

Since this town appears to be all up in each others' business, the cousin may not feel like she can get secretly vaccinated and confide in the group. The risk of it getting back to the husband would be too high. And while she may not be "assimilated" herself, the Trumper husband is and may see it as a kind of betrayal. So I try to give people in this situation (typically the wives) the benefit of the doubt.

[Saoirse9]

48. Well she did email back

Thanked me for inviting her and declined to come because she is not vaccinated and has no intention to get vaccinated.

Another friendship bites the dust.

I was worried about coming off as a scold and forgot to worry that she would just say she’s not going to get a vaccination.

[Saoirse9]

49. And you're right

He won’t allow her to get a vaccination.

[Bleacher Creature]

31. Immunity from the vaccine is WAY more durable - here's a story from just this week.

Link to tweet

Natural immunity doesn't come close to what you get from the vaccine, and it certainly doesn't last 18 months. If she's so sure she has antibodies, have her get an antibody test.

[Saoirse9]

35. Wow this is good news, I had the Moderna. Thanks!

[BannonsLiver]

36. My advice: Be less sanctimonious and over the top than most people here.

[Saoirse9]

37. Thanks I'll try LOL

[Ms. Toad]

41. Your house, your rules.

No tact or explanations needed.

[Saoirse9]

42. I would agree with you but I am known for pissing people off

I have quite a mouth sometimes and she's had a mouthful a few times from me. More than a few. I want to spare her that.

[NNadir]

43. If the rest of your friends are vaccinated, you're all probably safe.

Inviting one unvaccinated person is probably OK; inviting two or more isn't. That's all I have to say in the way of advice.

Of course, I wouldn't find it pleasant to be around someone married to a Trumper, but I'm probably way too political.

I've heard, not that I believe it, that we should talk to these people, but I'm not sure I'd be capable of it.

[Saoirse9]

44. One of the other guests

is afraid to be around unvaccinated people. I'm okay with it but he isn't, and his wife isn't.

If it were just her, her aunt & me minus the other guests I would be fine. Maybe not so much with the trumper husband who used to be a really cool guy until he decided TFG hung the moon.

Very well educated (Ph.d) and has lots of good ideas about engineering and almost anything else you can think of. Losing him to the dark side really hurts.

[NNadir]

45. It is an often made mistake to assume that a lot of education or even very high intelligence...

...makes one into an outstanding or even worthwhile human being.

I have spent my entire career with highly educated people, and have met and worked with more Ph.Ds than I could possibly hope to count, some of whom have been highly competent in their areas of expertise, but with whom, otherwise, I would never spend time with socially unless forced to do so.

You know, the Nobel Laureate Werner Heisenberg was very comfortable with Nazis, and Otto Hahn did nothing, did not life a finger, to save the life - happily other people saved her - of the woman who explained the meaning of his Nobel Prize winning work to him. Nobel Laureate Johannes Stark was a raving Nazi and actually wrote a book praising the effect (different from the Stark effect) that Adolf Hitler was having on science.

The belief that one can educate people into decency is somewhat dubious.

It is also true that being highly educated in one area does not apply to insight in another. This is what lies behind the famous logical fallacy of appeal to authority.

[Saoirse9]

46. Until a few years ago I thought he was really a cool guy

Interesting, insightful, etc. He isn't QAnon I don't think. He just thinks poor people get away with too much and are always gaming the system. And of TFG he says "other presidents do bad things too, TFG just doesn't get away with it."

It was a really swift decline after that.

[SheltieLover]

47. Please read post #4 in this thread

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215572903

Rhiannon graciously compiled & posted Dr. Eric Ding's tweets. He is a Harvard epidemiologist.

Spoilers: Delta is more contageous than smallpox, cloth masks are no longer good enough, & fully vaxed people with even asymptomatic cases do transmit covid.

Loads of charts & graphs.

[Saoirse9]

50. Wow. Just WOW!

Terrifying. I guess my friend is right not to want to be around unvaccinated people.

And I am right not to have them in my house with other people.

A friend lost her husband to Covid recently. I hope my cousin doesn't catch it. But if she does I will be nowhere near her.

[SheltieLover]

51. Yes, terrifying!

And CDC stopped reporting breakthrough infections, only reporting hospitalizations & deaths for fully vaxed.

Thing is, long-haul can & does result from mild and asymptomatic cases.

I thought you might find Dr. Ding's tweets informative.

[Saoirse9]

52. I did find them informative thank you

I follow him on twitter but hadn't seen that thread.

I need to stock up on KN95 msks.

[SheltieLover]

53. After reading that series

I bought 2 boxes 3M N95s.

I hope that post gave you ammunition to debate cousin, should it come to that.

[Saoirse9]

54. Won't come to that :-(

Debate over. She's not getting vaxxed and I'm not seeing her until she does.

[SheltieLover]

55. Sorry she won't listen

But, even if she did, her magat husband wouldn't & she could catch it & spread in your home.

Sad situation but I'm glad you are reading Dr. Ding!

[NNadir]

56. I don't take that guy all that seriously. n/t.

[SheltieLover]

57. I do.

[NNadir]

65. If you look, you will find better sources.

Almost all of the scientific publishers have made Covid related literature open sourced.

One can thus easily get a broad, scientific perspective therein, rather than listening to a single media figure.

[SheltieLover]

66. Ok. Ty!

[krispos42]

59. I'll give it a try

I would say that we don't know how long covid-19 immunity lasts so her opinion that's she's immune is really just a hope at this point.

You can point out that the vaccine is just a tiny shot. It's been really hyped up and politicized, but it's like getting a tetanus shot. After, you'll just be like "what was the big deal again?"

You can also try the "why would you risk other people's lives?" argument. Especially since relatives that are older are more at risk.

Maybe tell her you want to be able to communicate without having to wear a mask, or have her wear a mask.

[Saoirse9]

62. We've spoken. I didn't really argue with her

Just told her that I wanted her to be vaccinated so she could come to the party, and she declined.

Game over.

[boston bean]

61. I would say that in speaking with other members of the family and based upon their input,

have decided that vaccination proof will be required to attend.

[Blue_true]

63. Just do like your Aunt suggested.

Lay the damned facts out to your cousin, if you invite her and her equally anti-vax husband, several people that you want at the gathering won’t come to it.

[Marrah_Goodman]

64. Just explain that you refuse to be responsible for anyone getting sick at your party.

Tell her that everyone in the group means too much to you, including her, to risk it. Therefore only vaccinated people will be allowed.

[KentuckyWoman]

67. I hope we don't have your funeral.

You have kids. Get good life and disability insurance.

That is what I said to family who won't mask or vaccinate. One is currently in ICU with it.

[Saoirse9]

69. I told her about a friend's husband who just died of covid

No response. I hope it made her think.

[roamer65]

68. Please prepay your funeral expenses.

Because we won’t pay for it. You can just be thrown into a mass grave.

[Me.]

71. I Simply Don't UNderstand It

it is beyond my comprehension how smart people can be so damn dumb!