Just how greedy do you have to be?

[AndyS]

One of these is a real gun, the other is not. Which is real?





If you guessed the second black picture you were wrong. Makes no difference really as both have caused the deaths of children and adults.

Gun manufacturers license their names, designs, and specifications to toy makers and collect fees for their use. More than 150 people (adult and child, remember Tamir Rice) have been killed by police while holding one of these replica guns. Of course, toy maker's aren't innocent either. I guess everyone wants to get in on making a buck off our insane gun culture.

On the other hand gun makers have co-opted major toy makers' brands. The brightly colored 'LEGO' gun is REAL, a custom covered Glock offered by a Utah company for anywhere from $550 to $750. From the company's website, “We have been building guns out of blocks for the last 30 years and wanted to flip the script to aggravate Mom.” Even after considerable backlash over the product it took a cease & desist order from LEGO to stop the sales.

As an aside, out of curiosity I bought the product shown in the second picture. Cost about $40. It is made of metal, has the same weight as the real Beretta and the slide kicks back when the trigger is pulled just like the gun it is patterned after. It fired standard BBs at about 400 feet per second, not fast enough to break the skin. I turned it in to the local Chief of police for use in training. I told him I was giving it to him because a number of kids had been shot by police while playing with one of them. His response? "Oh my God, if somebody brandished this I'd shoot 'em for sure."

There is no depth to which the gun industry won't go and no responsibility they won't shirk to make a buck.

Gunners accuse me of wanting to start a culture war. I say ya' goddam right I do, some cultures need to die so some people don't.

What is wrong with us?

[Walleye]

1. Mom is going to be real aggravated when she gets shot by her toddler

[LymphocyteLover]

23. Right? WTF kind of statement is that? JFC.

[NewHendoLib]

2. "what is wrong with us?"

how long ya got to chew that big question over???

[Pepsidog]

3. Each day we become dumber than the day before.

[KS Toronado]

4. Done a little investigative journalism......

Company no longer sells kits to make your Glock look like a lego toy after drawing some negative attention.
Wouldn't surprise me if they still sell these "under the table"

[twodogsbarking]

5. Is that a toy gun that looks like a real gun or

a real gun that looks like a toy gun or a real gun that looks like a real gun or a toy gun that looks like a toy gun. You have one-tenth of a second to decide.

[Harker]

6. What is wrong with them? n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

41. They get kids killed?

[Harker]

42. I meant that I'm not one of "them", and reject the use of "us" in the OP.

I'm glad you pointed out my ambiguity!

[twodogsbarking]

7. But wait, there's more....

https://www.amazon.com/Pewter-Flames-Refillable-Butane-Lighter/dp/B008ILH1IM

[secondwind]

13. That thing is only 3 inches.

[Dial H For Hero]

19. There are full sized ones.

[twodogsbarking]

34. And this.....

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/police-man-mistakes-gun-for-lighter-accidentally-shoots-hand/1932989/

[twodogsbarking]

27. She said.

[ansible]

8. So if you had your way, you'd ban every single toy gun as well?

That's absurd and ridiculous

[AndyS]

29. Really? That's all ya' got?

There is a possibility that legislation will require toy guns to be distinctly visibly different from real ones to prevent the tragedy for police shooting people holding not-real guns. Right now the airsoft guns must have an orange marker on the tip of the barrel but other toys do not.

So, lets say that safety legislation gets passed. Then some money grubbing company sells the Block19 pictured above. How in hell is an officer supposed to know shoot/don't shoot?

No, just want guns to look like guns and toys to look like toys.

Is that too much to ask to save 150 lives?

[twodogsbarking]

35. You didn't need to be so polite in your response

but I respect you for it.

[AndyS]

37. A knee jerk reaction to a (perceived) knee jerk reaction.

Any time anyone discusses a gun issue the opposition generally goes to 'so you want to ban all guns' or 'you're gonna' take our guns away'. Apologies if I misunderstood.

[twodogsbarking]

39. Yep

[Dial H For Hero]

46. Airsoft "guns" are toys. BB and pellet guns are not.

This is why BB and bellet guns are not required to have the orange tip that airsoft "guns" do.

[AndyS]

49. Like the airsoft guns the replica bb guns are not lethal, not designed to be lethal and cannot be

made lethal. In that respect the two are the same and should be treated as such. Canada is banning air soft replica guns in favor of easily identifiable product. I favor that for both non lethal air guns and air soft.

It isn't legal for anyone under the age of 18 to buy an air gun or air soft gun. However there is no age restriction for possession or use of air soft.

There are air guns that are lethal. I own one of those. It should be treated no differently than any other gun, explosively powered or otherwise. However, although it fires a .22 pellet at 900 fps and can easily kill an adult human it does not require a background check and neither do black powder guns. Both should.

I'm saying that there needs to be more regulation of all guns, period.

[Mister Ed]

9. The gun nuts who claim they "back the blue"...

...are making things much, much more difficult and dangerous for police officers. This is only one example.

[hay rick]

10. "Some cultures need to die.."

Damn Skippy. Major portions of right-wing culture that have been assimilated by mainstream culture are pathogens for a humane and rational society. Worshipping the Second Amendment, proclaiming that life begins at conception and abortion is murder, corporations having extraordinary free speech rights, etc.

[kimbutgar]

11. 3-2-1 wait until we hear the story in the news of a child finding that gun and shooting someone

Or themselves. This gun manufacturer needs to be sued out of business after that.

[Dial H For Hero]

12. They stopped selling this kit within days of its announcement.

I would also point out that the market for a Glock that looks like it's made of Legos is extraordinarily small. I'd be surprised if they had sold more than a handful.

[AndyS]

21. And your point is? Please proceed . . .

[Dial H For Hero]

24. My point is that given the undoubtedly tiny amount of such guns sold (if any), that the poster to

whom I replied needn't be overly concerned as to the likelihood of children shooting people with this particular (and rather silly) gun.

Was that not obvious?

[AndyS]

26. Ah, so you do realize that there was that possibility. What the heck, why worry about only one

or two kids. We can make more . . .

[Dial H For Hero]

45. The poster seems to think that a child will almost certainly shoot someone with this "Lego gun" any

time now. I simply pointed out why this is unlikely.

Was I incorrect? If so, please explain why.

[AndyS]

47. Well, between 40 and 50 toddlers under 4 years old shoot themselves or others every year.

So if we introduce a gun that looks like a LEGO toy do you thing it might make this more or less likely?

But as I said, who really cares as long as guns aren't hurt 'cause we can always make more kids.

[Dial H For Hero]

55. Given that the gun in question was only for sale for a few days and was made by a small custom

shop, the impact of Lego Glocks upon the number of toddlers shooting someone will be virtually nil.

[AndyS]

57. Hmmm, virtually nil. Not nil but close to nil. I ask again, if 40-50 toddlers shoot themselves

or others every year is a product like this likely to increase or decrease that number. But like I said, kids don't seem to matter 'cause we can just make more.

Keep posting, you're making a great case for gunners' humanity.

Fun fact! Most toddler injuries are to themselves because their index fingers aren't strong enough to pull the trigger so they use their thumbs which points the gun at their chest and face.

[Dial H For Hero]

59. I think it will likely be nil, although there's no way to know short of such an incident actually

occuring. As for your question, given the miniscule number of these firearms which have been sold, I don't think it will likely increase or decrease the number in any way whatsoever.

[TexasBushwhacker]

15. You can buy the LEGO plastic by the sheet

People use it to make play tables. They call it "baseplate". So anyone could cover their own Glock. Of course, they couldn't put the LEGO logo on it.

As for the BB gun shooting at "only" 400 ft per second, it may not be enough to break the skin, but it is enough to blind someone's eye. That happened to a neighborhood friend when I was a kid.

[AndyS]

18. I was going to say something about "shooting your eye out".

[keithbvadu2]

14. A child would want to play with that. 'It's a toy.'

[Kaleva]

16. BB guns have looked like real guns for many decades.

https://www.daisy.com/product/daisy-adult-red-ryder/

[AndyS]

20. Men have been beating their wives for even longer so

that makes it okay, right?

[Disaffected]

36. Do you have anything useful at all

to add to the discussion? If not, please STFU.

[AndyS]

38. Right back at'cha

[Kaleva]

50. An analogy that doesn't work.

Men beating their wives has caused great harm since the first incident. BB guns that look very much like real gun have been around for decades but it's only been rather recently when there' has been an increase in the number of folks wielding a BB or pellet gun and killed police.

"At least 28 people holding BB or pellet guns were killed by police in US in 2015"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/29/28-people-killed-bb-pellet-guns-police-tamir-rice

In comparison, about 3 times that many unarmed people were shot by police that year:

"In 2015, the first year The Post tallied these numbers, officers killed 94 unarmed people, the largest group among them black men: 38."

https://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investigation/police-shoot-kill-nearly-1000-yearly/

Looking at other years, it appears that about 2 to 3 dozen or so people with a bb or pellet gun are shot by police each year.

Considering the millions of BB and pellet guns out there, the odds of being shot by police while carrying one is pretty much zero.

[AndyS]

51. I don't understand what you're talking about 🤷‍♂️

I think the analogy holds just fine.

[Kaleva]

52. I just edited my post. Read it again.

[AndyS]

53. Oh! I get it now! two or three dozen people aren't enough to care about is that it?

Please proceed indeed!

It is inconceivable to me that gunners just don't know how to stop digging when they're in hole.

As I said to Hero, thank you for your post and letting DU know how important human life is to you.

[Kaleva]

54. You agree then that your analogy doesn't work?

You equated having a BB gun that looks like a real gun to men beating their wives. While spousal abuse is wrong and causes severe damage each and every time it happens, carrying a BB or pellet gun is extremely unlikely to result in death of the one carrying it.

[AndyS]

58. Actually you missed the point entirely so I'll try to explain it to you.

BB guns have looked like real guns for a long time, the inference is that everybody should know they aren't real, hence it's the victim's problem.

Men have been beating women for a long time too, so women should know better and it's the victim's fault. Same reasoning. Both wrong.

You missed that in the convoluted attempt to distract from the issue in the OP but gunners do that a lot. I'm used to it.

Meanwhile in your attempt to obfuscate and deflect you admit that you really don't care if a few dozen people a year die because of the similarity. It's only a few dozen dead people and no guns were harmed.

Please keep posting and showing the rest of DU what gunners are really like.

[Dial H For Hero]

17. Air pistols such as the Daisy pictured above serve a very practical purpose.

They provide very inexpensive practice. If the airgun in question is close in appearance, controls, weight, etc, to a "real" counterpart, all the better, as the skills gained by using it will (to a degree) transfer over.

[AndyS]

25. I invite you to extoll those virtues to the parents of Tamir Rice or

any of the other children you'll find in this search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=children+shot+holding+replica+gun&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS959US959&sxsrf=ALeKk03XAQr87YCeInGb6Qamd1DMy5vvmQ:1626279411691&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVlI71-uLxAhVFXM0KHRpuBtkQ_AUoAHoECAcQAg&biw=1280&bih=648&dpr=1.5

And thank you so much for posting this. It gives the rest of DU an idea of just how much gun people give a shit about human life.

[Dial H For Hero]

44. I would no more do so than I would extol the virtues of a particular alcoholic beverage to a parent

whose child was killed by a drunk driver....in spite of the fact that I'm firmly in favor alcohol being legal.

And thank you so much for posting this. It gives the rest of DU an idea of just how much gun people give a shit about human life.

Pointing out the (quite factual) benefits of a BB gun = not giving a shit about human life?

[AndyS]

48. I will let the other readers decide that for themselves. Again, thanks for your post.

[Dial H For Hero]

56. Decide what, exactly?

[slumcamper]

22. Hands down, one of the best posts I've ever read. Thank you! n/t

[trickyguy]

28. Absolutely one of the most eye opening post that I've seen at DU.

Aren't toys supposed to look like toys- not guns?

[alphafemale]

30. I've seen cell phone cases made to look like a gun.

Might as well just say "Shoot me."

Google image search will pull it up.

[iemanja]

31. The goal must be to have more children killed by cops

Gun manufacturers are just plain evil.

Excellent post.

[calimary]

32. O. M. G.

[Layzeebeaver]

33. I'm waiting for the "Lincoln Logs" wrapper for an RPG

But that will be for export so it’s ok.

NOT.

[h2ebits]

40. What Is Wrong With US?!?!?

Many years ago and after I was divorced from him, my ex-husband thought it would be cool to get my oldest son (I have three sons) a BB gun--rifle--maybe air gun, I don't know the difference--for his birthday.

I was angry but after his initial excitement, my son put the gun away in a closet and that was the end of it--or so I thought. . . .

A few years later, I came home from work to be greeted by my oldest son showing me his leg and asking me to remove a BB that had penetrated the skin and created a furrow. I immediately took him to the Dr.'s office to remove the BB. After a considerable wait to be called in and remove the BB, I was asked to stay until the police arrived. Seems that in Adams County, Colorado, it is/was considered to be a gun shot wound and the Dr.'s office had to report it. I told them that they had my address, which was only a few blocks away, and to send the Police Officer to my house when he finally showed up because I needed to make dinner for my family and it was getting late. When the officer arrived, I handed him the rifle and told him I never wanted to see it again. He said that he would put it in the trunk of his squad car and bring it back after a couple of days when the situation had cooled down. I adamantly told him "NO" I didn't want that gun in my house so away it went. Queue the anger from this son. . . .

Fast forward. . . .My youngest son enlisted in the Army ostensibly for the GI Bill to enable himself to go to college. It seemed like a peaceful time and he was adamant about enlisting. He was eventually stationed in Germany where he was then sent to Macedonia for a short period followed by a return to Germany and then became part of the initial group of military sent to Bosnia. He came home aggressive, on high alert, and with a gun. He said that he needed it for protection and to take care of his family--here in the United States. Eventually, he got married and now has two children. When I asked about the gun around his two bitsy children, he told me that it was safely hidden away in the attic. At this point, I told him that from experience I could say with certainty that when his children got older, they would know the inside of the house better than he did so there really was no safe place in the house. Eventually he thought this through (probably with the help of his wife) and then gave the gun to his father--my ex-husband--because "he likes guns so he can add it to his collection."

Finally, let me add that Russia gave up on Afghanistan many years prior to our involvement. Trump tried to negotiate with the Taliban for a cease fire and removal of our troops, which bound us into a not good deal. And Biden is following through by removing our troops to end this forever war that has been going on for 20+ years. Today I read that George W. Bush--remember him--the president that lied us into the Iraq war--is soundly criticizing Biden for our troop withdrawal.

Rather than continue with the anecdotes, my point is to agree with you but add that it is not just a cultural war. Our society has been malformed for the past century into becoming more and more a warmonger country led on by politicians and the wealthy for their own greed and power. We are just fodder and, we are training succeeding generations to become fodder also. Each and every one of us is responsible for the mess that we are currently in and it is not just the NRA but, in fact, our government--the people that we have voted into office.

IMO, This is What's Wrong with US--all of us.

[AndyS]

43. My dear h2, you've a better handle on the topic than most of us.

I agree on so much of what your post has in it.

I've been mulling an OP on the forever war but that's for another time. I remember that in 1970 I sketched the bones of a short story with that title. I was in the army at the time stationed in Ft Lee, VA which was a holding pen for those going to or returning from Vietnam which had been going on for ten years. Seems like we never learn . . .