I know I've said this before, but I need the reminder; maybe others do, too.

[Atticus]

Last edited Sat Jul 17, 2021, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)

No one who still voluntarily associates themselves with Trump or his cult deserves ANY respect, PERIOD, FULL STOP.

We should not pretend that they can be trusted.

We should not pretend that they will eventually "see reason".

Until they are placed in danger of lengthy prison terms---or worse and more immediate threats---they will not renounce Dear Leader---and some not even then.

It is too easy to slide into considering them "just people with whom we disagree". They are people whose expressed intent is our destruction. We should treat them accordingly.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Absolutely right and thank you for this timely reminder, my dear Atticus! ♥

[MLAA]

2. +1000

I have a real problem when I hear ‘they are good people or a good friend so we just don’t talk politics’.

I think these trumpidiots must be held accountable by everyday decent people through shun and shame.

[mitch96]

16. "or a good friend so we just don't talk politics'. " I totally disagree with your line of thinking

My friends are allowed their thoughts. I am allowed my thoughts but we just don't talk politics. One friend I've know since I was five years old. We both cherish our friendship more than our politics at this late stage in lifel. I don't know the particulars of his politics, all I know is he is a republican conservative like his father and I am a liberal democrat like my father.. Our fathers would talk and got along fine.. Both were ww2 vets and ANTIFA..

I have one friend that we don't talk anymore. Now HE is a rabid fox news political hack that always thinks he will convince you that HE and HIS politics are the only right and correct way to think...
Ahhh nope.
He values his politics more than our friendship so that was the end of a 65 year friendship. Happy birthday, happy holidays and that's about it, thankyouverymuch.. bye..
We were good friends, Best man at my wedding and I'm the godfather to his kids..
It makes me very sad for the outcome... YMMV
m

[thesquanderer]

27. Glad to see your contrarian post. I feel the same.

I have family and co-workers who I like, and I will not dis-own them just because they've been brainwashed by fox or by their significant other. We just mostly avoid politics. And in fact, most of the time, politics are not all that important to them, period.

[Atticus]

29. "My friends are allowed their thoughts". That sounds nice and proper until you face the fact

that people who STILL support Trump and voluntarily choose to associate themselves with what we now know about him are saying that they also support:

---grabbing women "by the pussy";
---reflexively lying about anything and everything, including his wealth, his education, his intelligence, his religious faith, etc., etc., etc. X 35,000 plus;
---Trump's "Big Lie"that he won the 2020 election "by a landslide";
---the violent January 6th insurrection as a mob incited by him and directed by his extremist supporters invaded the US Capitol carrying a Confederate flag;
---Trump's attitude that discrimination against people of color, gays, Jews, Muslims, women,---hell, anyone not wealthy white male of the correct Protestant Christian faith---is totally ok.
---those who did not dodge the draft and served in the military were "suckers" and "losers".

We both know I could go on and on, but what's the point?

People who NOW STILL support Trump do so with full knowledge of the amoral monster he is. They can no longer plead ignorance.

If you want those folks for your friends, that is your business. Personally, I couldn't stand the stench.

[mitch96]

42. "Personally, I couldn't stand the stench." So my friend who you don't know has a stench?

Nice.. Oh and btw you are entitled to your thoughts also.. I just disagree..
I judge the men and women not a blanket generalizations.. As MLK said "judge a person by his character"
We could go on for hours on this but I'm tired of it.
Have a great day..
m

[Atticus]

43. If your friend supports the Trump positions I mentioned, I DO know them. And, if you don't

think those cause a stench you are "nose-blind".

You have a great day, too.

[brush]

3. Pls post this from time to time.

[malaise]

4. +1,000

Just the truth

[Blue Owl]

5. K&R

[SWBTATTReg]

6. Maybe when the first wave of trump supporters that got arrested for participating in the 1/6/21

trump riots are sentenced to jail, probation, or both, in increasing numbers (I think over 600 thus far arrested), people will see the negative consequences (jail etc.) and of course rump is no where to be seen (I saw already that his supporters were whining about where rump was at?).

These thugs want to bomb us (in San Diego), and do harm to us. I'll not rest until everyone of these thugs answers for their crimes in disfiguring Congress when they attempted to disrupt a lawful assembly per trump's urging. I'll not rest until rump himself is behind bars or charged w/ multiple crime(s). Retribution is coming (too slow for me though).

[DeeDeeNY]

37. Yes. And the same goes for serving members of Congress, who took an oath of office

and then voted not to certify the election or egged on the violent mob. They shouldn’t be allowed to continue in their jobs. At the very least they have to be held accountable for their treasonous actions.

[SWBTATTReg]

38. I agree. They should be (I think) have the 14th amendment applied to them and ...

drummed out of service for conduct unbecoming a representative of Congress. They all know better than this, to act in an irrational and irresponsible manner.

[FoxNewsSucks]

7. Yes, treat them accordingly

AND SWIFTLY!!!

That's the only thing I'd add to your excellent post. Democrats act like we have years to clean up. We don't.

Now that Manchin has said no to the For the People Act, republicons will cheat their way back into control as soon as the next midterm.

It's gotta be done now. And the criminals need to be exposed to the public

[JustAnotherGen]

8. I've jumped the shark

They are unAmerican

[Hortensis]

9. :) Let's get real. Almost none will ever worry about prison terms.

Almost none from over 74 million leaves effectively over 74 million. And more.

Who will always be with us. They're our relatives, our neighbors, our coworkers, our children's teachers, our medical professionals, our representatives in government. They can be better, more their normal seves, reacting to societal changes that encourage it.

Being that better society requires not allowing anger and fear to corrupt us into copying their behaviors and addiction to self serving lies and broad-brush hostilities. Until more wisdom kicks in, it might help to approach it like training dogs we have to live with.

Encourage good behavior. In ourselves.

Avoid encouraging bad behavior. Never copy their bad behaviors and mirror them back to them.

We should behave as we believe they should.

[Atticus]

11. As I have said before, if Trump does not pay the price for his crimes, the nation I have

loved and lived in all my life will have perished.

The 74 million should be governed by the 81 million. I think that's "democracy".

If they want to participate it is up to them, the minority, to rediscover "compromise".

As they are now, I have no desire to "share a future formed with them".

[Hortensis]

17. Well, if that was a plan for a cookout, smart people

would beg off or feed themselves before showing up. I'm totally with you in the critical importance of not accepting their behavior at all, not normalizing it. I differ in that I believe many of us already did by adopting some of it in ourselves but imagining it's different in us. Like mindless, toxic uberpartisanship. My label hates your label.

The only people we can fix are ourselves. Since this thread is about reacting to what's wrong with those currently willing to destroy their nation and even themselves to spite us, though, maybe start with understanding them and what happened to them.

It's not like there isn't lots of good, solid, fascinating information (with plenty of justification for fearing and being appalled by the worst of them), and it's not like most of us aren't very mistaken in what we think we know. Which for most is almost, willfully nothing.

Knowing we hate each other is not the beginning and end of understanding what the hell's gone wrong with society.

[Atticus]

20. I appreciate your thoughtful response. I believe our primary difference is simply that I

believe they have totally exhausted our usual American "give them the benefit of the doubt" approach and I think it is time for THEM to understand US.

Thanks.

[Hortensis]

28. But they won't, Atticus. We agree on almost everything, but I think

underestimating what's in the worst of them is causing the very acceptance you argue against. These are the same kind of people who approved shipping "undesirables" to the death camps. And the same who weren't so virulently aggressive but chose to believe it was for the best and go along.

There's no chance that in their current form they will understand us. They would kill us if orders and opportunity coincide.

But, anyone who isn't a kid will remember the days when no one suspected they existed in America or imagined that "it" could happen here. We need those days back. And that requires the smarts we didn't have to keep them in check in the first place.

For those who've never read it, an amazingly fun -- considering how horrifying it is -- read about the typical trumpist type is downloadable for free at the link below, also about some of their dreadful leaders. The study's old now but findings have only been confirmed by subsequent studies that have expanded on the knowledge. You may have read it, but I know from posts here that most have not. If they had, they'd be a lot more scared of what's happening on the right. And aware of our role in stopping them.

https://theauthoritarians.org/

[Atticus]

31. Thanks for the cite. Haven't finished it, but have read enough to see that Altemeyer

is a compelling writer.

[erronis]

10. Most of them don't give a shit about trump. They just want a white (male) dominated country.

trump is a good way to stick something in the "deep state" eye. He's disposable, just like his diapers.

These are bad old boys and gals who get jollies by being dumb and talking trash. They're willing to be pushed around by ivy elites like the repuglicon politicians since they know it doesn't really matter to their lives. When it comes time to stringing up politicians, all of them are candidates.

[Pepsidog]

12. You are correct. Moreover, if all the people who associated themself with TFG how many came out with

their reputation in tact. Not many, If any.

[DemUnleashed]

13. Not Normal!

No one who associates themselves with Trump is normal...Full Stop....Period!

[turbinetree]

14. Well said..........

They are people whose expressed intent is our destruction. We should treat them accordingly.

[wryter2000]

15. Agreed

We can still be glad when they turn around and bite their master on the ass.

[stillcool]

18. they have the ink, the microphones, and the cameras

plastered everywhere. Hard to avoid so many nobody's. Thank god I gave up cable news, otherwise I might be homicidal.

[onecaliberal]

19. Couldn't agree more. Sadly only democracy is paying the price.

[CaptainTruth]

21. They want to destroy our democracy, that makes them enemies of our country.

In case anyone has forgotten, WWII provides a useful guide for how we should deal with fascists.

[ShazzieB]

22. Clarification, please?

When you say, "No one who voluntarily associates themselves with Trump," who all are you including in that?

If you are including anyone who ever voted for him in that, that's too extreme for me. Among other things, I think some Trump voters are more deluded and misinformed than downright evil. I could write a lengthy dissertation on different types of Trump voters, but I will spare you that (I don't have time anyway lol), and just say that statements like "ALL [fill in the blank] are [fill in the blank] make my brain itch, in general, matter how those blanks are filled in.

Humans are very complicated creatures that can be full of paradoxes and contradictions, and broad, sweeping statements about this or that group are problematic to me because there are ALWAYS going to be exceptions.

That doesn't mean I'm dying to go out and make friends with every MAGAT I meet. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I prefer hanging out with people whose values are similar to my own. But I simply don't believe that every single person who ever voted for Trump is the scum of the earth (and I know you didn't use those exact words, but I think it's implied), just because they made a bad choice at the ballot box. I just don't.

[Atticus]

23. I had presumed that using present tense---"associates"---would make my intent clear, but your point

is taken. I have edited to add the word "still" before the verb.

[czarjak]

24. That's why...

“Go along to get along” or “Agree to disagree” isn’t an option. Opening closed minds is really hard.

[Joinfortmill]

25. Totally agree.

[Skittles]

26. I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE

even if I were to give the benefit of the doubt to the seriously gullible people who were so easily conned by that vile man, if you STILL support him you are RACIST and you SUPPORT FASCISM

[Wounded Bear]

30. I'm with you...nt

[deurbano]

32. I previously considered my husband's cousin's partner a "good guy."

Not a person i would naturally hang out with without that family connection, but a good person (I thought). Then, we learned he was an anti-vaxxer... and a month ago, we saw a FB post on the cousin's page that got taken down quickly, but the gist was her partner (in his fifties) was in the hospital (in NE TX, where they moved a couple of years ago from here in CA). Through the family grapevine, we quickly learned it was COVID, and soon he was in ICU. He is still in the hospital a month later.. and the whole time, even when in ICU, he has remained a ranting, anti-vaxxer!

His own FB page is "patriotic" and includes lots of photos of him with his motorcycle group... but when I looked at THEIR FB pages, i could see posts from him that were much more radical than anything on his own page. Like: "the democrats are full of shit and this stolen election is a farce... we need to take back our country by force." So, in reality, he is NOT a good guy. He is a potentially violent, treasonous, idiot, asshole, who would have had no hesitation in participating in the coup attempt, and has had a shitty impact on the cousin's life. I think he influenced her not to get the vax, and she has a young grand-daughter who spends a lot of time with them, who is too young to get vaxxed, so they've also put her health at risk. I hope to never see him again.

[Septua]

33. I don't need reminders

"We should not pretend that they can be trusted.

We should not pretend that they will eventually "see reason".

Until they are placed in danger of lengthy prison terms---or worse and more immediate threats---they will not renounce Dear Leader---and some not even then.

It is too easy to slide into considering them "just people with whom we disagree".

I don't respect 'em or trust 'em or remotely think they'll change and certainly don't consider them having an opinion worthy of discussion.

[Ferrets are Cool]

34. Agree 100%

[Stuart G]

35. These Trumpers would have been part of 30 percent who supported the rise of Hitler in Germany..

...Yes, only 35 percent supported Hitler in the beginning as he came to power. These Trumpers would
have been part of that crowd, and are part of the crowd now.

Yes, They ..cannot be trusted ever..
They will not see reason..
They will not renounce their leader.
Yes, their expressed intent is our destruction

If you have ever talked with someone who is totally against fairness and democracy,
and they will not listen to reason about anything ever...
..That is who these people are:

..Their way is the ....."ONLY WAY...AND NO ONE ELSE COUNTS...EVER..!!!!"

Yes, these people are a real threat, now, and always..

[BlueJac]

36. K&R

[secondwind]

39. Hear, hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tommymac]

40. On board with your bad self.

You state it very well.

They will give 'libtards' no quarter. They laugh at us and yell profanity at us. 'Friends' and family.

But they expect us to be quiet little mice and go play quietly in the corner while they destroy Our Constitution and Our Rights, ruin the Earth itself, and lead Our Species to it's final doom.

I refuse to go quietly into the night.

[ananda]

41. Thank you!

I needed that.

[Evolve Dammit]

44. It's the whole damn party. Rotten and anti-people and environment to the core. nt