General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm not a fan of passengers applauding after a routine landing
But this particular landing, I'd be clapping like crazy afterwards (probably with a urine stain in my pants).
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Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)Skittles
(153,160 posts)I get the willies just watching it.
AllaN01Bear
(18,201 posts)sheshe2
(83,754 posts)Yep, crabbing.
George II
(67,782 posts)....it was only maybe 15-20 degrees, nothing like that.
That was amazing. I'm surprised they even tried to land unless they were running out of fuel and no other alternative.
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)ecstatic
(32,701 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)underpants
(182,800 posts)Thanks.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,175 posts)colorado_ufo
(5,734 posts)has not been for some time.
EX500rider
(10,845 posts)Iggo
(47,552 posts)Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)I wonder wat it would be like as a passenger during that landing.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I hate flying even if it's a decent smooth flight, but if the slightest thing is off, I am a nervous wreck.
2naSalit
(86,600 posts)I used to fly a lot when I was young, in the seventies, and I enjoyed it but now, I avoid it if I can.
Enter stage left
(3,396 posts)True Dough
(17,304 posts)Enter stage left
(3,396 posts)my belief has for the last 45 years has been:
I'd like to go to heaven for the scenery, but I'd rather go to hell for the championship.
If you are a believer of DU, I'd probably meet you there.
Response to True Dough (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Under The Radar
(3,401 posts)PJMcK
(22,035 posts)This type of landing is part of a commercial pilot's training. Crabbing is using the power of th jet engines to counter-act the strength of the crosswind. You can see that when the pilot touches down, (s)he re-aligns the plane in the direction of the runway. Impressive.
The pilot-monitoring must have been very tense.
zaj
(3,433 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)I forget where we were coming from, but we were flying to Dulles near DC. We were in the most violent thunderstorm I ever experienced. We were instructed to fly in circles until the weather calmed down. After about an hour, they decided to head for Richmond to land and wait it out. An hour later we headed out again. It was still very very rough, but the pilot just decided to go ahead and land, even though we were bouncing around like crazy and the wings were flapping like a bird. After crabbing a bit (not as much as that guy) he put the nose down and we landed, very roughly. During the rollout people started clapping and cheering, and on the way off the plane everyone shook his hand or patted him on the back.
A very harrowing experience, one of the worst in 40+ years of traveling.
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)tritsofme
(17,377 posts)Stuart G
(38,421 posts)I am still around to tell the story... 1983?? not sure. But I remember the incident...I think we saw the smoking
coming out of one jet engine ...
...I do think we applauded when we got safely off the plane..I don't think you forget one like that..Do You?
bottomofthehill
(8,329 posts)He drove the big rigs.
Rhiannon12866
(205,320 posts)Bo Zarts
(25,396 posts)Ive got 20,000+ hours flying time - military, corporate, and airline. I cannot imagine ever landing in a crosswind like that. Go around, and head to your alternate.
The captain was either a damn fool, or too low on fuel to land anywhere else.
My guess is that both pilots licenses are now in jeopardy.
Disaffected
(4,554 posts)so there should be someway now to determine the pilots' fate. Anyone know?
I'm a bit surprised to hear you say that however - there are several instances of such landings IIRC on YouTube and elsewhere so it's not a rarity.
Bo Zarts
(25,396 posts)And I have seen some of those videos, most of which I watch with disgust. As an airline pilot for a major US carrier, I was also an ALPA-trained (Air Line Pilots Association - AFL/CIO) airline accident invedtigator. I know all too well the results of exeeding the stated operating envelope of an aircraft, be it a Piper J-3 Cub or a Boeing 747.
But back to the issue at hand: crosswind limitations. It is very possible that the tower controllers relayed specious wind info. The wind speed and direction at the tower location is not necessarily the same as what the pilot might encounter at, say, an altitude of 200 feet just off the end of the runway. However, other wind instrument readings - wind speed and direction - are usually available to the controllers (center-field wind, runway approach-end wind, runway departure-end wind, etc). Two things here: 1. today's jetliners have all sorts of real-time wind info displayed on the instrument panel, plus a windsheer warning system that also generates an aural warning ("WINDSHEER! WINDSHEER! WINDSHEER!" ); and 2. If you are at 200 feet altitude (ILS CAT1 minimumus, generally speaking), and you are at a crab angle (crosswind correction angle) that puts you looking at the runway out the co-pilots side (starboard side) window, it is time to execute a go-around for a whole lot of reasons: A. if the wind is the same at ground level, then a safe landing is most likely not possible (that was NOT a safe landing in the video). B. if the wind direction/speed is considerably different at ground level (say 30 knots and 30° different, and that happens), then a dangerous sheer condition probably exists.
To relate all of this to my experiences, I'll abstract a particular landing I made, on a windy day at DCA (Washington National Airport). It was a day that the wind was increasing all morning, as forecast. I was landing a Boeing 737-400 to the north - 360° - and the tower reported the winds as 270° at 29 knots. That's a direct crosswind. The Boeing 737 (all series) has a 30-knot crosswind limitation, which was the case of all swept wing jets that I have flown (IIRC). At 200 feet the IRS display showed the wind at 290° and 35 knots. OK, probably a little sheer, but not dangerous sheer. Just bumpy ride sheer. At 200 feet, with that crosswind (290/35 on the airplane and 270/29 tower-reported), my wind correction angle was nothing like that jet on the video. HAD IT BEEN, I WOULD HAVE EXECUTED A GO-AROUND!.
At 200 feet my co-pilot keyed the mike, as most crews do on windy days, and transmitted two words, "Wind check." The DCA tower answered, "260 at 30." Within limits. But much more important, the situation felt safe to me. There is no way in the world that the pilot in the video "felt safe" during the low part of the approach or the "landing." I used standard crosswind landing techniques and made a rather nice landing considering (it had been a bumpy ride all the way from Boston, and really bumpy on the approach, but all is forgiven with a good landing. Many nice comments as the passengers passed the cockpit getting off at the gate).
As I cleared the runway at DCA, a Delta MD-80 on final called,"Wind check." The tower answered, "270 at 39 gusting 45." Delta, "OK. We are on the go-around. We need clearance to our alternate." The airport was closed.
Here is an interesting aside to this landing anecdote. We were scheduled to fly the same 737 back to Boston, but nothing was flying. The winds were getting upwards of 45 knots. As the co-pilot and I walked through the crowded terminal, headed to the frozen yogurt stand and then on to the crew room (we were DCA based), a man approached us rather briskly. He looked familiar. It was Ralph Nader (this was several years before his run for president, a run that caused Al Gore to lose the 2000 the election). Nader came up, breathlessly, and greeted us with, "Hey guys! How is it up there?"
It was probably my fastest retort ever. In retrospect I'm amazed at my quick wit in that situation. I answered, "Mr. Nader! Hello! It is unsafe at any speed." (I dunno. You might be too young to get it. But Ralph Nader's watershed book of 1965, a book primarily known for its critique of the Chevy Corvair .. but more an exposé of the automotive manufacturing industries' malfeasances .. was titled Unsafe at Any Speed.)
Disaffected
(4,554 posts)informative discussion - I have a much better appreciation for what is involved with such situations.
BTW, I wish I was too young not to remember Ralph Nader and his seminal book. He was a good guy (but too bad he pooched Al Gore's election chances in the 2000). I sometimes wonder where we all would be now if Gore had won.
GeoWilliam750
(2,522 posts)greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Nice small airport.
Grins
(7,217 posts)But it is a real clip.
Winds were 26 with gusts to 40 knots; in MPH that is 29 with gusts at 46. Thats A LOT!
Disaffected
(4,554 posts)check out the dramatization of the "Gimli Glider" (a 737 IIRC with both engines out). They did not have a problem with cross winds but were coming in too high and too fast for the only airport within reach, but not so much as to allow a go-around. The pilot, a former glider pilot, used a similar technique to scrub off speed and altitude (I think they called it side slipping or some-such). And, he did it without hydraulic power to the flight control surfaces and some of the instrumentation not working.
MerryHolidays
(7,715 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Vinca
(50,270 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)But, not like that!
Super windy, torrential rain, on long flights where circling isn't a good option.
Lots of bouncing and twisting and hard impact onto runway, but still not this bad.
BTW: I've never heard a normal landing applauded. And, I've been on more that 1,200 flights.
I'd think it weird for people to applaud a routine landing.