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Charles Booker @Booker4KY: Rand Paul was just busted and fined by the FEC (Original Post) BeckyDem Jul 2021 OP
Headline makes it look like Booker got busted. lagomorph777 Jul 2021 #1
Dotted up now. BeckyDem Jul 2021 #2
TY! lagomorph777 Jul 2021 #3
It should be noted that his PAC spends about ten million NullTuples Jul 2021 #4
Is it the amount or the hit on his reputation that may help get him out of office? BeckyDem Jul 2021 #5
Getting fined by the FCC is a badge of honor to the MAGAts, since the FCC is... Rabrrrrrr Jul 2021 #8
You're probably right, they make up vicious policy and call them freedoms. BeckyDem Jul 2021 #12
I've always felt that people say they're "libertarian" when calimary Jul 2021 #19
Totally agree. You can hear it in their responses, they distance themselves, somewhat from the pack. BeckyDem Jul 2021 #21
I used to be a Libertarian back in the day. WinstonSmith4740 Jul 2021 #23
I appreciate that you shared that on background. BeckyDem Jul 2021 #25
He always scared me, too! calimary Jul 2021 #26
Absolutely, Rand is a lot worse. BeckyDem Jul 2021 #27
The late writer Iain Banks defined libertarianism as Fortinbras Armstrong Jul 2021 #41
Thank you! 2Gingersnaps Jul 2021 #35
FEC not the FCC MagickMuffin Jul 2021 #22
Oh, no! I made a fuckin' typo!! Rabrrrrrr Jul 2021 #24
The FEC may be a different matter though. summer_in_TX Jul 2021 #32
Ads noting Paul's fine may be useful, though StClone Jul 2021 #6
Good! crickets Jul 2021 #7
Thank you! BeckyDem Jul 2021 #16
A fine is a fine, is a fine. However, $21,000 is pocket money to Sen Paul. Ford_Prefect Jul 2021 #9
Cheapskate Libertarians can't stomach the loss of so much as a dime. nt oasis Jul 2021 #14
Busted as in hauled off to jail? SheltieLover Jul 2021 #10
Oh I wish! BeckyDem Jul 2021 #13
Ikr! SheltieLover Jul 2021 #28
I hope Booker defeats him IronLionZion Jul 2021 #11
Me too, and he just might this time. BeckyDem Jul 2021 #15
K & R & Retweeted! SunSeeker Jul 2021 #17
Thanks! Booker is serious about challenging him BeckyDem Jul 2021 #18
K&R UTUSN Jul 2021 #20
Rand Theft Larceny Blue Owl Jul 2021 #29
ha ha +1 BeckyDem Jul 2021 #40
Booker should temper his optimism DFW Jul 2021 #30
Kentucky uses the ES&S voting machines with no paper trail KS Toronado Jul 2021 #31
Yikes! Duppers Jul 2021 #34
So you're saying the Democratic Governor allowed election fraud to occur? brooklynite Jul 2021 #36
Now why would a Democratic Governor allow election fraud to occur? KS Toronado Jul 2021 #44
So the Governor is helpless to do anything? brooklynite Jul 2021 #45
rigging voting machines is real..... KS Toronado Jul 2021 #47
"why the R always wins, even when behind in the polls" brooklynite Jul 2021 #48
You're right, VOTING MACHINES WITHOUT A PAPER TRAIL IS THE BEST WAY TO VOTE KS Toronado Jul 2021 #50
Why do people jump to absolutist responses like this? brooklynite Jul 2021 #51
And I believe ES&S voting machines are being hacked by republicans. KS Toronado Jul 2021 #52
Funny how the voting machines we lost on in 2004, 2010 and 2016... brooklynite Jul 2021 #53
Knowledge is free....try it KS Toronado Jul 2021 #54
I did; it talks about risk, not about evidence of hacking. brooklynite Jul 2021 #55
I think the race would have been a lot closer Bayard Jul 2021 #43
Twitter reply: Rhiannon12866 Jul 2021 #33
Thanks for posting that. He is a scoundrel. BeckyDem Jul 2021 #39
Thanks for the "Deep State" meme. KS Toronado Jul 2021 #46
Kentucky voters are going to get the candidate they want...unfortunately. brooklynite Jul 2021 #37
I remain hopeful Booker can break through, although the obstacles are tough. BeckyDem Jul 2021 #38
I never engage in "hope"; I crunch data brooklynite Jul 2021 #42
It doesn't matter who Democrats run in 2022 because no Democrat is going to win standingtall Jul 2021 #49

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
4. It should be noted that his PAC spends about ten million
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:54 PM
Jul 2021

I'm not sure this $21 thousand dollar fine will even be noticed.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
5. Is it the amount or the hit on his reputation that may help get him out of office?
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 01:59 PM
Jul 2021

I am hoping Booker can show effectively that Rand Paul is a fraud who has done nothing for poverty or education in Kentucky but made it worse.

Rabrrrrrr

(58,349 posts)
8. Getting fined by the FCC is a badge of honor to the MAGAts, since the FCC is...
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:00 PM
Jul 2021

... clearly also part of the big conspiracy against conservatives (that is, actual American Patriots who love the Constitution and are for law and order and blah blah blah white supremacy blah blah I love Jesus blah blah fuck the poor blah blah).

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
12. You're probably right, they make up vicious policy and call them freedoms.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:34 PM
Jul 2021

I can't stand libertarian policies, nonsense re-branded.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
19. I've always felt that people say they're "libertarian" when
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 04:13 PM
Jul 2021

either they don’t want to say they’re republi-CON (ashamed, cowardly, or just don’t want you to know) or saying a long fancy word like “libertarian” makes them feel smart (smarter than you, certainly, because they think they’ve fooled you and made you think they weren’t republi-CON).

I bet many of those folks don’t even know what being a “libertarian” actually means.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
21. Totally agree. You can hear it in their responses, they distance themselves, somewhat from the pack.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 04:18 PM
Jul 2021

But policy by policy, most are horrendous with few exceptions. His father was adamant against crazy wars, but willing to let charities somehow take care of millions without health insurance. The cruelty is off the charts.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,056 posts)
23. I used to be a Libertarian back in the day.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 04:55 PM
Jul 2021

I was volunteering on the Dukakis campaign and mentioned to someone in the group that I really wasn't a Democrat, but Bush scared me more than Reagan and we had to beat him. He kind of laughed and said that he used to be a Liberatarian, too, until he started to really look at what they stood for. We started talking and he said think about it...what exactly do they support the government doing? Education? Nah. Health care? Not a chance. Infrastructure? Hell, no. Private industry should do that. The list kept going, with Libertarians not wanting any of it, until he got to "war". THAT they'll fund. We were training on registering voters. I picked up a form and re-registered right then and there, and have never looked back.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
25. I appreciate that you shared that on background.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 05:44 PM
Jul 2021

It is one of the aspects of DU I love. We all see politics from a set of experiences, for the most part, and how we might change perspective.

I am a black woman, so Ron Paul always scared me.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
26. He always scared me, too!
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 05:51 PM
Jul 2021

I always felt Ron Paul wasn’t wired quite right. Just something wrong in there. And CERTAINLY not fit to represent anybody in any government position! And I’m as white as cheap toothpaste.

His son? Even WORSE!!!

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
27. Absolutely, Rand is a lot worse.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 06:07 PM
Jul 2021

I don't think and I could be wrong, Ron Paul would have been supportive of a guy like Trump during his time in Congress.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
41. The late writer Iain Banks defined libertarianism as
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 10:39 AM
Jul 2021

"A simple-minded right-wing ideology ideally suited to those unable or unwilling to see past their own sociopathic self-regard."

My first objection to libertarianism is that it denies reality. After all, modern libertarianism pretends that only the state intrudes on our liberties. It ignores the role of banks, corporations and the rich in making us less free. It denies the need for the state to curb them in order to protect the freedoms of weaker people. It is the disguise adopted by those who wish to exploit without restraint. It also ignores the libertarian paradise, Somalia.

I know, libertarians will claim that Somalia has nothing to do with libertarianism, and linking the two is a sore point with them. They claim that it isn't true libertarianism, it's anarchy. True libertarians believe in just enough government to protect private property and personal safety; without those protections, they argue, anarchy ensues. The problem is that they cannot point to even one current or historical example of a government that functions as they imagine it should. They have no real world examples, so they ply their arguments as a theoretical construct.

Every example of places with little centralized government is dismissed by libertarians as an anarchistic situation, not a "true" libertarianism. It's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, Ron Paul edition. The situation in Afghanistan is blamed on 30 years of war and tribal anarchy, rather than the lack of a proper central government. Somalia is blamed again on war, on American intervention, Russian intervention, and on tribal anarchy. Historical examples of feudalism arising in the absence of a centralized state, or dark ages arising after civilization collapses, are dismissed as either irrelevant or invalid because of war and anarchy. The fact that corruption and the Mafia are more prevalent in southern Italy where tax collection and central government are weaker than in the North, is again dismissed as a cultural or anarchistic issue. It's always the same. Libertarianism is an infallible theory of the way things should be, just as Marxism is seen by its adherents. Wherever it fails, it does so because the people weren't ready for it, or there was too much violence to allow it to work, or because the government wasn't powerful enough to protect people from harm.

Libertarians fail to realize that there has never been -- and never will be -- a government that functions according to their principles because it runs entirely contrary to human nature. As any libertarian understands when it comes to authoritarians, power tends to corrupt; and absolute power corrupts absolutely. When you decentralize and remove the modern state, leaving only essentially a glorified police force in charge to protect private property and personal safety, one of two things happens: 1) The central police force turns into a right-wing military dictatorship invested in stamping out all leftist thinking, then appropriating the country's wealth for themselves and their friends (for example, Chile under Pinochet) or 2) All central authority and protection break down completely as power localizes into the hands of local criminals and feudal/tribal warlords with little compunction about abusing and terrorizing the local population (feudal France, Afghanistan, Somalia, western Pakistan, etc.)

The devolution of local authority and taxation into the hands of criminal groups willing to provide a safety net in exchange for their cut of the action is the inevitable result of the breakdown of the government-backed safety net. People want a safety net; they'll either get it from an accountable governmental authority, or from a non-governmental authority of shadowy legality. Both kinds of authority will levy their own form of taxation, be it legal and official, or part of a protection scheme. In its own way, the "No True Libertarianism" argument is very similar to the "No True Communism" of the far left, who argue that the fault of Communism lies not with the idea, but with the practice -- despite the fact that no successful large-scale Communism has ever been implemented in the world. Neither ideology can fail its adherents. They can only be failed by imperfect practitioners. Both ideologies run counter to human nature for the same reason: power abhors a vacuum. The people with the money and guns will always abuse the people who don't have the money and guns, unless there are multiple levels of checks, balances, and legal and economic protections to ensure the existence of a middle-class with a stake in maintaining a stable society. The modern state didn't arise by accident or conspiracy; it evolved as a means of avoiding the failures of other models. Libertarianism is a philosophical game played by those without real-world experience of localized, non-state-actor tyranny, or enough awareness of history to understand the immaturity of their political worldview. It is based, like Marxism, on fantasy and rejection of the real world.

Rabrrrrrr

(58,349 posts)
24. Oh, no! I made a fuckin' typo!!
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 05:08 PM
Jul 2021

And yes, you're correct. Whoops! An embarrassing typo.

Though it would be hilarious to see Rand Paul ultimately getting taken down by something obscure like the FCC.

summer_in_TX

(2,735 posts)
32. The FEC may be a different matter though.
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 12:27 AM
Jul 2021

They deal with campaign corruption. I haven't heard the same RW lines against them as against the FCC.

Ford_Prefect

(7,895 posts)
9. A fine is a fine, is a fine. However, $21,000 is pocket money to Sen Paul.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:08 PM
Jul 2021

It's not even 10% of what he kept and used for personal expenses under this ruling. He needs to be nailed for all of the other abuses, too.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
15. Me too, and he just might this time.
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 03:37 PM
Jul 2021

Kentucky is a mess. Rand Paul will have Koch money and then some but we'll see.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
18. Thanks! Booker is serious about challenging him
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 04:01 PM
Jul 2021

Booker met with a group of coal miners prior to a community meeting at the Pike County Courthouse, a move he said was all about learning more and diving into the critical concerns about the economy.

“For us to realize real change, we need to listen to the Kentuckians. Because we’ve been ignored for so long,” he said. “And that’s what I’m doing now. And I’m talking about structural change, how we can get more money in the pockets of Kentuckians, and how we can transform our future.”

From discussions about black lung to hearing what has the people of Eastern Kentucky fired up, Booker promised the people in attendance that, if he is elected, the woes of the mountains would be carried to the White House.

https://www.wkyt.com/2021/07/23/charles-booker-carries-senate-campaign-pikeville/

DFW

(54,369 posts)
30. Booker should temper his optimism
Thu Jul 29, 2021, 11:56 PM
Jul 2021

To Republicans, getting busted for financial crimes is like winning the Congressional Medal of Honor.

KS Toronado

(17,213 posts)
31. Kentucky uses the ES&S voting machines with no paper trail
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 12:04 AM
Jul 2021

Only way Moscow Mitch won reelection, we will probably have the same problem with Rand Paul.
They that count the votes win.

brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
36. So you're saying the Democratic Governor allowed election fraud to occur?
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 07:59 AM
Jul 2021

There's no indication Amy McGrath was competitive with McConnell, much less ahead.

KS Toronado

(17,213 posts)
44. Now why would a Democratic Governor allow election fraud to occur?
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 12:04 PM
Jul 2021

Local election board reQublicans counting the votes decide the winners & losers.
They also program the voting machines with no paper trail.

brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
45. So the Governor is helpless to do anything?
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 12:07 PM
Jul 2021

Or is the blogosphere just not as aware of fraud as the blogosphere is?

We spent months slapping down Trump's voter fraud accusations. But apparently rigging voting machines is real if the Democrat loses?

KS Toronado

(17,213 posts)
47. rigging voting machines is real.....
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 12:41 PM
Jul 2021

For over 15 years, election security experts and election integrity advocates have been communicating to their state and local election officials the dangers of touch-screen voting machines. The danger is simple: if fraudulent software is installed in the voting machine, it can steal votes in a way that a recount wouldn’t be able to detect or correct. That was true of the paperless touchscreens of the 2000s, and it’s still true of the ballot-marking devices (BMDs) and “all-in-one” machines such as the ES&S ExpressVote XL voting machine (see section 8 of this paper*). This analysis is based on the characteristics of the technology itself, and doesn’t require any conspiracy theories about who owns the voting-machine company. In contrast, if an optical-scan voting machine was suspected to be hacked, the recount can assure an election outcome reflects the will of the voters, because the recount examines the very sheets of paper that the voters marked with a pen. In late 2020, many states were glad they used optical-scan voting machines with paper ballots: the recounts could demonstrate conclusively that the election results were legitimate, regardless of what software might have been installed in the voting machines or who owned the voting-machine companies. In fact, the vast majority of the states use optical-scan voting machines with hand-marked paper ballots, and in 2020 we saw clearly why that’s a good thing. In November and December 2020, certain conspiracy theorists made unsupportable claims about the ownership of Dominion Voting Systems, which manufactured the voting machines used in Georgia. Dominion has sued for defamation. Dominion is the manufacturer of voting machines used in many states. Its rival, Election Systems and Software (ES&S), has an even bigger share of the market. Apparently, ES&S must think that amongst all that confusion, the time is right to send threatening Cease & Desist letters to the legitimate critics of their ExpressVote XL voting machine. Their lawyers sent this letter to the leaders of SMART Elections, a journalism+advocacy organization in New York State who have been communicating to the New York State Board of Elections, explaining to the Board why it’s a bad idea to use the ExpressVote XL in New York (or in any state). ES&S’s lawyers claim that certain facts (which they call “accusations”) are “false, defamatory, and disparaging”, namely: that the “ExpressVote XL can add, delete, or change the votes on individual ballots”, that the ExpressVote XL will “deteriorate our security and our ability to have confidence in our elections,” and that it is a “bad voting machine.”

Full Article: ESS voting machine company sends threats

Go and do a google search on ES&S voting machines, which R states/counties use them,
and ask why the R always wins, even when behind in the polls.

brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
48. "why the R always wins, even when behind in the polls"
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 01:10 PM
Jul 2021

Except when they don't.

The year before, Governor Beshear (D) won in Kentucky using the same voting machines.

No Democratic candidate, campaign manager or Party official has claimed that voter machine rigging has occured.

brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
51. Why do people jump to absolutist responses like this?
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 01:34 PM
Jul 2021

I didn't say paper ballots were bad. I said there's no evidence of claimed voting machine fraud.

brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
53. Funny how the voting machines we lost on in 2004, 2010 and 2016...
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 03:52 PM
Jul 2021

...were the same machines we won on in 2006, 2012 and 2018.

Also funny that none of candidates who lost due to rigged voting machines complained about it.

Bayard

(22,062 posts)
43. I think the race would have been a lot closer
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 11:58 AM
Jul 2021

Moscow Mitch's approval rating here has been in the 30's for quite awhile. Of course now, he can claim he was all for the Infrastructure bill. Rand Paul will probably ride that horse too.

KS Toronado

(17,213 posts)
46. Thanks for the "Deep State" meme.
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 12:14 PM
Jul 2021

Now I've got a good reply when some _rumper in my red town talks about Biden's "Deep State"

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
38. I remain hopeful Booker can break through, although the obstacles are tough.
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 09:56 AM
Jul 2021

Booker is a former Kentucky lawmaker and among other pressing issues, he will be speaking about the price of prescription drugs.
Rand Paul will be screaming about imagined freedumbs.

brooklynite

(94,513 posts)
42. I never engage in "hope"; I crunch data
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 11:17 AM
Jul 2021

In 2010, Paul won 56-44.
In 2016, Paul won 57-42.

Andy Beshear won the 2019 Governor's Election because Matt Bevin was uniquely unpopular. Absent a criminal indictment or a truly unexpected political scandal, I see no practical was Paul is going to lose.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
49. It doesn't matter who Democrats run in 2022 because no Democrat is going to win
Fri Jul 30, 2021, 01:17 PM
Jul 2021

especially in a midterm. Having said that there is value in running Booker, because if we are ever going to flip Kentucky blue again then we need to run candidates who can make a dent in the culture there. So that sometime in the future Democrats can win there, but it's not going to happen in one election cycle it's going have to be a long term process.

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