This 900-person delta cluster in Mass. has CDC freaked out--74% are vaccinated

[LiberalArkie]

An analysis of a COVID-19 cluster of around 900 people in Massachusetts—74 percent of whom are vaccinated—is among the alarming data that spurred the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to reverse course on masks this week.

According to an internal CDC document first obtained by The Washington Post, data on the Provincetown, Massachusetts, cluster showed that vaccinated people carried surprisingly high levels of the delta coronavirus in their noses and throats. More importantly, vaccinated people were found to be spreading the dangerous virus variant to other vaccinated people. Nationwide, the CDC estimated that there are 35,000 symptomatic breakthrough infections per week among 162 million fully vaccinated Americans.

The CDC document overall highlights that delta is extremely contagious—much more so than previous versions of the virus, as well as the common cold or even the seasonal flu. Delta is more in line with the contagiousness of chickenpox, the CDC document said.

US officials should acknowledge that with delta dominating the country, "the war has changed," the document read. Officials who spoke with the Post say that the analyses and the urgency the document contains are what prompted the CDC to reverse its masking guidance earlier this week. The CDC now recommends indoor masking, regardless of vaccination status, in schools, in areas with "high" or substantial" COVID-19 transmission, or when there's contact with vulnerable people, such as unvaccinated children or immunocompromised people.

Snip

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/this-900-person-delta-cluster-in-mass-has-cdc-freaked-out-74-are-vaccinated/

[lagomorph777]

1. And we still have DUers refusing to mask.

Last edited Fri Jul 30, 2021, 04:30 PM - Edit history (1)

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15681060

[Treefrog]

29. Yup, and bragging about it.

I also remember being lectured that we vaxxed folks could not transmit the virus.

[obamanut2012]

42. I've never stopped

And, I've been fully vaxxed since early-mid April.

[Skittles]

73. sickening

unbelievably selfish

[totodeinhere]

75. I was not masking up because the CDC guidelines said that in most cases it was not necessary.

But now that the guidelines have changed I am masking up again.

[BradAllison]

81. We also had DUers telling people to "Shut up and trust the science".....

When the CDC got cavalier and told everyone masks were no longer needed if vaxxed.

Everyone reach for their first stone.

[Skittles]

82. any DUers should have known better

the honor system with Trump humpers ? RIDICULOUS

[leftstreet]

2. CDC reverses itself. Shocking n/t

[TDale313]

3. When faced with new evidence.

Which is how it should work.

[leftstreet]

6. What was the evidence for the May 13 mask relaxing? n/t

[LiberalArkie]

12. They made the assumption that Americans could accept advice on how to live and socialize.

They were wrong about Americans who even now refuse to accept that there is a pandemic going around. Stupid CDC, they thought that 2020 Americans were the same kind of people as the 1940's - 1970's. But way back then they thought that Dihydrogen monoxide was safe to drink.

[Ms. Toad]

13. This is hardly new evidence.

The evidence is stronger now, but not new. The CDC chose to play ostrich, hoping that Delta woud behave differently that it has every other place it has taken hold - AND - hoping that jerks who have been refusing to vax and max would suddenly behave themselves to get the reward of doing what they have been doing all along.

The risks were known, and the outcome foreseeable. Given that this is a new virus, which we already knew is deadly and debilitating, they should have erred on the side of community health rather than personal reward.

[Treefrog]

30. Yes, you, and many of us on this board knew that was a stupid damn move.

I don’t trust them at all.

Again, I appreciate the many informative posts you’ve made regarding this, despite attacks you’ve received.

[crimycarny]

50. Yep--and they did that with AIDS too

The CDC needs to stop deciding what the public can and can't handle and just tell the truth. The CDC's cautious response to the AIDS outbreak was eerily similar. They had extremely strong evidence based on studies that AIDS was sexually transmitted but held back on warning the public until they had "more definitive proof". How many people died in the meantime? They also hid the fact that the blood supply was likely tainted because they didn't have a definitive test for AIDS yet and didn't want to cause panic. How many hemophiliacs died because of this?

I understand the CDC is underfunded. I also believe the scientists who devote their lives to the CDC versus taking a more lucrative position in private research are heroes and want to do the right thing. But those in the upper levels, political appointees, are often the ones deciding what information goes out.

I believe the CDC is downplaying the need for booster shots too. I hope I'm wrong but their hesitancy reeks of another "We can't tell the public the truth because we may not have enough vaccine supply for the unvaccinated. So let's play Ostrich and hope for the best."

[PCIntern]

60. Yes exactly and

I knew a gay hemophiliac graduate student at Penn who died not from sexual transmission, he was part of a monogamous relationship , but from the blood supply. It was horrible and horribly ironic.

[DFW]

78. I knew a straight hemophiliac who died from an AIDS-tainted transfusion

Seeing him deteriorate was horrible.

[crimycarny]

94. Yep--happened to a co-worker's husband

They had been married for over 20 years. He was a hemophiliac and he contracted AIDS through tainted blood transfusion. His death was a slow and agonizing one as well. In the end, it affected his brain and he became uncharacteristically hostile. He was the sweetest, kindest man I'd ever met until that horrible disease ravaged his body and brain. To know that blood banks and the CDC knew that people were being infected with AIDS from tainted blood, and said nothing for months, still infuriates me.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

99. The Truth and the way forward

At a certain point(without known Delta differences) the CDC could tell a truth that the Vaccinated do not have to wear masks.

BUT, say, because we know that many un-vaccinated will go maskless with the thought that no one will know the difference,
we still recommend everyone wear a mask.

Or,

They can hide that truth of the vaccinated not needing to mask and just say we recommend everyone wear a mask.

____________________________________________________

In both of these scenarios, the CDC continues to guide toward everyone wearing a mask.
Which is better in your opinion?


In the first scenario, many will say it is a nanny state.
In the second scenario, many will say they are hiding the truth.

If they do the scenario that they did, and the Delta is as bad as it is, we get the outcome that we have now.
And many say, what did they know and when did they know it. If they knew enough, should have they used scenarios 1 or 2?

[Skittles]

76. nonsense

I knew exactly what would happen, and they should have too. The honor system for masking was NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

[LanternWaste]

68. New data often results in updating conclusions. Shocking (not)

Remind me to introduce you to my friend, the Scientific Method, when I have the time, patience and tolerance...

[leftstreet]

71. Delta was raging through India when the CDC announced

...relaxing mask requirements

I suspect the "new data" had less to do with the biological crisis, but more to do with an economic and political crisis

[Tarc]

4. This is misleading

There is no corresponding spike in hospitalizations or fatalities.

Being vaccinated is having the precise effect it was intended to have; greatly increase the chances of not getting it at all, or lowering the severity of it if you do get it.

This is not a call to panic, or to "mask up" again. What we should be doing is calling for a 3rd shot,

[leftstreet]

8. "You won't end up in the hospital!" isn't a great slogan n/t

[Ms. Toad]

14. Nor is ignoring that delta is incredibly transmissible,

even from vaccinated person to vaccinated person - AND - to children 0-11 who are currently unable to be vaccinated.

[uponit7771]

36. Then people who aren't vaxed should take precautions

[leftstreet]

38. You know vaxxed people can get it, right?

Sure, it's supposedly likely to keep you out of the hospital.

But what about time lost at work, no sick leave left, no medical insurance or huge deductibles, or long term Covid complications, etc?

The CDC needs to have some heads roll

[uponit7771]

40. With a 7% chance for critical/severe outcome and even lower for long covid. I'll take my EMPIRCAL

... chances based off data cause the outcome you outlined about work etc isn't defined seeing VERY sick but not critical or severe has been anecdotal so far.

We're enabling bad behavior, period

[leftstreet]

41. How would you stop this "enabling bad behavior?"

[uponit7771]

43. 1. Vax cards, 2. stop paying for these assholes bills who desides not to get vax, 3. have quick ...

... test ready for those who can't vax right now so they know their status.

No fuck em, I agree with Macron if they're going to be dumb let them do it on their own time and dime not mine

[leftstreet]

44. Think you'd get further with stimulus checks

even Biden suggested giving people money to get vaxxed

[uponit7771]

45. That too, but enabling bad behavior of just 50 million people affecting 280 millions is illogical on

... its face.

That 50 million who can get a single shot and don't want to or cant should take precautions.

The hospitals around me are filling up because of the unvaxed, tell them to take the shot afterwards or pay their own damn bill.

[Ms. Toad]

54. Wearing a mask, in addtion to being vaccinated is not enabling bad behavior.

It is a public health measure that is necessary to prevent the spread of a deadly, unpredictable virus among everyone (vaccinated, unvaccinated by choice or because they are not yet eligible), and necessary to minimize the creation of additional variants - because the virus doesn't care whether you are vaccinated or not when you give it the opportunity to mutate in your body. (And, some scientists are suggesting that a vaccinated body is even more fertile ground for mutating.)

[uponit7771]

62. It 100% is enabling bad behavior, people who are vulnerable to severe/critical/lethal spread

... needs to take precautions not those who aren't.

Those 50 million who are greater than 12 left who haven't gotten at least 1 shot need to step up where they can not the 230 million (70% of us population) who have gotten at least 1 shot.

Also

Who says the bug isn't mutating with the vax?

The bug is going to do bug shit even if 100% are vaxed in the country, the people who are vulnerable to it need to take precautions.

I agree the CDC was little early now they're enabling bad behavior in folk.

Vax Cards, quick test, financial incentives and taking away paying for refusers payment of hospital bills.

[uponit7771]

67. Delta is spreading among the vaccinated so if everyone was 100% vaxed Delta spread wouldn't stop

If Delta is NOT spreading among the vaccinated then those vulnerable to sever/critical/lethal exposure should take precautions.

Right now 190 million Americans have at lest one dose the 100 million left that can need to act like the 200 million who have.

Yes, fuck them if by now they're not doing what's needed when available.

[Ms. Toad]

69. Delta won't stop ***by vaccination alone***

That's the message. Read the latest CDC data in the thread on the leaked document.

We cannot rely on vaccination, alone. Everyone needs to do their part by using the standare NPI measures we were using before the vaccine was available.

You're not just saying fuck them when you refuse to add layer of protection, you're saying fuck yourself, fuck your vaccinated neignbors, relatives, etc, and fuck the 0-11 year old children who can't be vaccinated.

This is not an isolated "fuck you" that only lands on the people you disdain. It is a fuck you to everyone.

[leftstreet]

72. +1

[uponit7771]

83. I agree, stopping spread was ... NOT ... the primary goal in the vax push seeing data before delta..

... hit hard those who got vaxed can still spread the virus.

Spread could happen AFTER Delta hit too so ... no ... stopping spread was not the primary goal.

IHM is showing vaxes are 93% effective against critica/lethal outcome.

Stopping critical/lethal ... STILL IS ... the goal seeing the CDC is ...NOT ... tracking vaxed infected like they are critical/lethal.

This is not an isolated "fuck you" that only lands on the people you disdain.

Its not towards people I disdain its people who wont lift the fork to their mouths when they can

I shouldn't have to wear two seatbelts cause relative few doesn't want to wear one

It is a fuck you to everyone.

No its not, there's no data showing "everyone" is vulnerable to severe/critical/lethal affects of delta.

VERY Few if any data presented so far is outside of CDC expectations for critical/lethal affects of cv even delta.

[Ms. Toad]

53. People who are vaccinated, can transmit the virus to both unvaccinated

and vaccinated. If you can't be bothered to care about human beings because they made stupid choices, you should at least care about not infecting those who made good choices - or have no choice in the matter at all.

I have little to no respect to anyone who places the slight discomfort of wearing a mask above the safety of others in the community in which they live.

[uponit7771]

64. True, the vulnerable to severe/critical/lethal spread need to take precautions seeing precautions ..

... are available for people to take advantage of at all levels now

Last year I'd agree with you but now its like spoon feeding an adult, fuck that ... they need to take the precautions where they can and ask for help in everything else.

Spoon feeding precautionary actions for someone is enabling them.

[Ms. Toad]

66. It has zero to do with spoonfeeding anyone.

It has everything to do with keeping everyone safe, including you and the people you deem worthly of your care.

In the CDC leaked documents 15% of hospital deaths were in fully vaccinated individuals. 9% of hospitalizations were of fully vaccinated individuals.

And, when COVID uses your body to create another more contagous, more deadly variant, you will be every bit as responsible for the deaths that variant causes as if you had not gotten the vaccine in the first place.

[uponit7771]

77. Looking at the data 200m ... ARE ... safe from severe/critical/lethal exposure from those who

... can't or wont should take precautions.

In the CDC leaked documents 15% of hospital deaths were in fully vaccinated individuals. 9% of hospitalizations were of fully vaccinated individuals.

I've not seen any data from the CDC backing this up just a "Post estimate".

Even so if vax represents 15% of the deaths that isn't outside of vaxes the 95% efficacy rate and very close to what Florida death number from vaxed.

I'm not seeing new data from Delta that says the vaxed should do something different, the numbers so far are what is expected.

The unvaxed should take precautions where they can

[Ms. Toad]

80. Your statements and your cavalier attitude

toward public health are appalling, and not what I expect to find among progressives.

[uponit7771]

84. If there wasn't resources for the unvaxed I'd agree but there **ARE** resources and people should

... take advantage of them where they can.

It's not progressive to enable people who can do for themselves and choose not to.

Looking at the data the ~200 million vax ARE relatively safe from sever/critical/lethal affects of even delta

People shouldn't have to wear two sets of set belts in a specd car because some people are deciding not to wear anything, that's enabling people.

[Ms. Toad]

87. You are aware our cars do have two layers of protection, right?

seatbelt + airbag.

This is vaccine + facemask. Exactly the same thing, for the same reason.

Progressives DO care about public health -and not increasing the risk of deadly diseases morphing. We DO care about not needlessly infecting children who are unable to get the vaccine. We DO care about protecting the immune compromised who are staying at home - but who one of the people you infect bring it home to. Progressives DO care about minimizing the number of people who are hospitalized with COVID because those hospital beds cannot be used by those who need the beds for other reasons.

Your attitude suggests you care a lot more about sticking it to the unvaccinated than you do about any of these other innocents who are likely to be harmed by your actions. That is appalling, and not progressive.

[uponit7771]

90. Hmmmm, is the CDC claiming spread would stop or slow down notably if the vaxed masked up?

I'm not seeing any data on that and CDC is not keeping any, I'd think I would see some coming out of Israel and I couldn't find any after search.

90% of the unvaxed are not going to mask up unless they're made to so the HORRID AMOUNT OF "spread" is going to continue among them whether I mask up or not so I'm not seeing the logic here.

also

Yes, that's why I typed "sets" and "spec'd" in my post cause I saw this pettifog earlier. I meant two different sets because the extra set of belts isn't going to help me in a spec'd car and enabling unsafe driving by not giving tickets out to those who wont wear seatbelts isn't going to help unsafe drivers.

Enabling bad behavior isn't progressive either and giving those who don't want a vax a reason not to get one is just that; enabling.

If people don't ... WANT ... to wear the first set of belts and drive an un-spec'd car I shouldn't have to wear two sets in my spec'd vehicle seeing that's not going to help the unsafe drivers and I'm not seeing any data me masking up now is going to help the unvaxed who don't want to.

Progressives DO care about public health -and not increasing the risk of deadly diseases morphing.

Again, the vaxes weren't going to stop spread ever so there's no such thing as stopping the bug from morphing.

So wearing a mask into perpetuity isn't practical UNLESS there's a polio like vax out there.

Vax cards, quick test and financial incentives work better than making those who are vaxed mask up.

[Treefrog]

31. Thank you.

[Meowmee]

33. Yep what a slogan

It is good that most will not have serious disease but some unfortunate people with bt will end up in the hospital and some will die. And others will be much worse than a mild case at home and or could have long lasting effects even if they only have what is really actually a mild infection. Keep wearing your masks to protect yourselves, others and to help stop it spreading.

[uponit7771]

35. Yes it is, I wish they have that for pancreas cancer or some shit

[LanternWaste]

70. Science and viruses don't really care about what looks good to you.

In fact, viruses don't care about anything at all... as they lack sentience.

I certainly hopes this helps.

[totodeinhere]

79. Why not? That is one of the main selling points for why people should get the vaccine.

If you are vaccinated there is much less chance that you will be seriously ill or hospitalized. Isn't that a good thing to know?

[uponit7771]

93. +1, not only is it the main selling point the CDC isn't keeping up with infections among ...

... the vaxed because it was so low.

CDC is keeping up with critical/lethal stats because severely sick is even more miniscule.

The vast amount of spread isn't among the vaxed its among the unvaxed so I don't understand the CDC's logic here.

The vax masking up isn't going to stop the spread among the unvaxed, there's no proof of that

[boston bean]

21. Yes it is a call to mask up again.

Children under age of twelve cannot be vaccinated. And a vaxed person could give it to grandma who was vaxed but did achieve a high antibody reaction or immune compromised.

Don’t people care for anyone but themselves?

Who the fuck wants to spread covid around? A bunch of selfish fucking people. That is who.

[PortTack]

24. Except vaccinated ppl are able to spread the disease..that is a worry

[Celerity]

25. You are missing the point. Fully vaxxed people who catch Delta have 1,000 to almost 1,300 times the

viral load in the their nasal and upper respiratory passages than vaxxed people did with the Alpha variant, and 10,000 to 13,000 times the viral load of the origin strain. That is even for asymptomatic cases.

A fully vaxxed person is still very capable of being a super spreader, and at BEST the most effective common vax (Pfizer) against COVID is only 80% effective against infection, and as the Israeli study shows, its efficacy starts to fade as the months roll by.

The rates of peak efficacy against for the Moderna vax are similar to the Pfizer against Delta, but really poor against Beta (B.1.351 aka the South African variant). That is why the Moderna mRNA-1273.351 variant tweaked vax trial we are in was modified to attack Beta above all else.


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-how-well-covid-19-vaccines-work-against-the-delta-variant#Vaccines-vs.-delta-variant

According to an analysis carried out by Public Health England, two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine appeared to be about 88 percent effective against symptomatic disease and 96 percent effective against hospitalization with the delta variant.

The same study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the delta variant. Scientists came to this conclusion after analysing 14,019 people with an infection, 166 of whom were hospitalized, in England.

A lab study on the Moderna vaccine showed that the vaccine was capable of providing protection against the delta variant and other variants tested, even though it was much more reduced compared with the alpha variant.

But the most interesting finding was that the vaccine was far more effective in producing antibodies against delta than it was against beta, according to the data, which has not yet been peer-reviewed.

A study published on the preprint server BioRxiv suggested the J&J vaccine is 67 percent effective against the delta variant.

[uponit7771]

37. Then the unvaxed should take precautions ! We're seriously enabling bad behavior here

[Celerity]

58. It is coming down to their death wish being fulfilled, and innocent people are going to get

fucked. The vax levels just are too low, and you have tens of millions in the US who are WILFULLY courting disaster, pandemic-wise, just to fuck up the Democrats and usher in (so they think) a new era and regime of theocratic-backed white nationalism.

The world is going to fuck about, and somewhere, sometime, somehow, a VOHC (Variant of High Consequence) may get spun up I fear. If even vaxxed people are rolling at 67 to 80% efficacy (and decreasing over time) against infection (the number I focus on becuase it is the ultimate gauge of containment) from Delta, that means the virus is still more than viable, still reproducing, and thus able to continue to mutate. Hopefully Delta is a fast exploder/fast burnout.

IF that (a VOHC) is formed, we all are fucked in one way or another, whether it is due to direct disease, or a true economic collapse. I do risk analysis and prevention as part of my sphere of duty at my firm. I have been focused on this for ages now (not for my work, I mean when sharing info and discussing COVID). I SO hope we never see a VOHC from COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html

[uponit7771]

59. "The innocent" need to take precautions and if they don't or their parents don't then that's ...

... their issue.

Don't enable bad behavior by covering for them like this.

I do think the CDC was a little early but now 50 million people need to do what they need to do to save themselves.

The resources are there we don't need to spoon feed them

[Celerity]

65. You are using a far more narrow definition of innocent than I am, apparently.

Don't enable bad behavior by covering for them like this.

I am enabling no one's bad behaviour. No idea where or how you drew that from my post.

[crimycarny]

55. I want to know more about boosters

If people get a booster shot, will that affect the contagion rate? A hospital worker I know stated that their hospital is quietly suggesting that certain patients get a booster shot (immuno-compromised, elderly). That tells me it's going to be needed for all of us soon.

If Pfizer is telling the truth and a booster can increase protection by 11-fold or more, doesn't it follow that it could reduce the infection rate too?

[NickB79]

27. They can spread it to unvaccinated people

Of which there are tens in f millions in the US.

THOSE are the people who will drive up hospitalizations.

[uponit7771]

34. THANK YOU !!! It looks like we're enabling bad behavior on its face. The unvaxed should take ...

... precautions and if they don't want it fuck em.

[womanofthehills]

51. 79 fully vaccinated Massachusetts residents have died, 303 hospitalized in very rare COVID 'breakthr

And this if from July 14. - https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/-fully-vaccinated-massachusetts-residents-have-died--hospitalized-in-very-rare-covid-breakthrough-cases-officials-say/ar-AAM72Eh

[uponit7771]

86. +1, as the article says the breakthrough critical/lethal are rare and .1% of cv deaths

The cases included 303 people who were hospitalized and 79 who died, either in or out of the hospital, according to DPH data. That’s 0.0072 and 0.0019 percent, respectively, of the total vaccinated.

“All available data continue to support that all 3 vaccines used in the US are highly protective against severe disease and death from all known variants of COVID-19. The best way to protect yourself and your loved ones is to get vaccinated,” the DPH said.

[silverweb]

5. Uh-oh.

This is not good.

[NurseJackie]

7. A bad batch of vaccine? Early vaccine recipients with a dissipating protection?

[LisaL]

9. A much more infectious virus variant-delta.

NT

[NurseJackie]

10. I hope these people recover quickly...

... and I suspect that it won't be long before places like Arkansas and Florida are decimated.

I'm already stocked up on toilet-paper, water, sanitizer, rice, pasta, soups, and frozen foods.

[Treefrog]

32. Yeah, I never stopped wearing my mask, but I had started to venture out again.

I was even considering the gym, but not now. Nope.

[cinematicdiversions]

48. There is no indication that they are sick. Nt

[LisaL]

52. If you are talking about MA delta cluster we are discussing, majority of them are symptomatic.

NT

[marie999]

61. Maybe not, but they can spread the virus.

[lapucelle]

56. This clickbait story about the CDC "freaking out" conflates the leaked internal CDC slideshow

and an article published as an early release in today's edition of the MMWR. Here are links to both documents if you'd like to see them yourself.

MMWR Early Release Article:

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leaked CDC internal document (actually a dlide show presentation):

Improving Communications Around Vaccine Breakthrough and Vaccine Effectiveness

https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/54f57708-a529-4a33-9a44-b66d719070d9/note/7335c3ab-06ee-4121-aaff-a11904e68462.#page=1

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NurseJackie]

57. Thanks!

[TexasBushwhacker]

11. The details

"Despite the concerning data on delta, vaccines have still proven to be highly effective against severe disease, hospitalization, and death."

That's what vaccines are supposed to do! It's a reason to continue to wear a mask to protect others, but if the vaccine works well enough to keep me out of the hospital and the grave, that's good enough for me.

[nitpicker]

15. ((NPR indicated viral loads of the vaccinated can approach that of the unvaccinated))

So IF a vaccinated person gets Delta, they can spread it about as well as the unvaccinated. ((At least that is what I understood.))

The "problem" appears to be that with milder symptoms with the vaccinated, they can pass it off as "just a cold or allergy", and be out and about, and if they are acting like it's 2019,with no masks and no social distancing...

[Celerity]

26. yes, even if you are vaxxed, your viral load in your (this is key) UPPER respiratory/nasal passages

can be 1,000 times (or more, some studies show almost 1,300 times) the amount it was with the Alpha variant, and 10,000 times the origin strain. That is if you simple get infected, even asymptomatic.

[spinbaby]

16. I'm waiting for my test results now

I’m vaccinated. Earlier in the week I spent time with a friend who is also vaccinated. The next day she came down with covid.

[chowder66]

23. I hope your results are negative! nt

[Sympthsical]

17. Provincetown . . . during Pride. What were they expecting there?

Having been myself in the past, I can promise you, there was not a whole lot of social distancing going on. And I doubt there were many masks.

I love my community, but when we want to party, we will party. In the middle of the epidemic, June 2020, gay men were packed in on Fire Island, no masks (or shirts), just dancing away.

So the data doesn't crazy surprise me much.

[LisaL]

18. Yes, they certainly weren't sitting at home to get those high infection rates.

Per the report, they were attending mass gatherings and so on.

[Sympthsical]

22. Being packed in like sardines is almost the point of much of it

I've been to many a Pride party. I know exactly what that looked like.

Irresponsible, but people probably figured a vaccine was a bullet proof vest.

It was not.

Reminds me of when Truvada became a thing. People stopped fearing HIV. Cool. Then pretty much every other STD started spreading all over the place. One of my buddies, who I know hasn't used protection while on Truvada, once said to me, "We have antibiotics in case of that."

Uh, herpes is forever, bud.

[marie999]

63. We lived in the Castro District at the start of the AIDs epidemic.

Some of our friends said they didn't believe in it. Many died.

[Klaralven]

74. How Ptown Got So Gay, Gay, Gay

Ptown, as so many know it, was once a shabby old seaport that had fallen on hard times. Yankees lived on one side of town, Portuguese on the other. When the railroad came, it put the Portuguese on the wrong side of the tracks.

The railroad, though, brought tourists to enjoy Provincetown’s wide, sandy beaches. So did the steamer from Boston and later, Route 6. Portuguese families discovered they could make a little extra money by taking in boarders. While the Portuguese men were away fishing, their wives accommodated visitors, often nice single men. They returned year after year, and they grew friendly with their hostesses.

From then and there, Provincetown was only a few steps away from becoming a gay mecca. But the town’s unique subculture had its roots in a long-ago past.

https://www.newenglandhistoricalsociety.com/how-ptown-got-so-gay-gay-gay/

[DFW]

85. We're right near there now

When we‘re here we usually spend a fair amount of time in P-town but this year, we‘ve only been in a few times, mostly for food shopping, and never during late afternoon or evening, and we take our masks. I don‘t know what prompted the P-town crowd to act like a Missouri Megachurch over July 4th weekend, but they did, and a lot of people suffered unnecessarily. Provincetown bars didn‘t need to act like frat parties at the University of Alabama.

[mucifer]

19. Chicago is gonna be fun a few weeks after lalapalooza oy vey

[mopinko]

20. yup. i'm ready to go back in my hidey hole.

not that i am that out of it, but....

[NickB79]

28. Is this still the same Delta variant as the Indian strain, or has it mutated once again?

It seems even more contagious than when we first saw it emerge this winter.

An American sub-variant? Delta Plus?

[leftstreet]

39. That's a really good question

Just googling I can't find anything. But there are some knowledgeable DUers who might respond

[scipan]

47. What do you mean "did vaccination induce delta"?

It's the India strain back a few months ago, so I know there were very few vaxxed there.

So maybe 2? mutations are for the spike protein, which makes it better at binding to our ACE2 receptors, which, in itself, would make it better at transmission and replication. And that almost by definition makes it easier to evade the vaccine antibodies, which are to the original virus from China.

Your other questions are interesting but I have no answers. I believe getting shingles always depends on you having had chicken pox. It's the same virus. Nasal lavage seems like it could be a good idea, but it would depend on just how much virus you could get rid of, the virus is so tiny.

[NickB79]

49. Shingles is chickenpox

The chickenpox virus inserts itself into your DNA as a child, and reactivates as shingles decades later.

Since the vaccines don't contain COVID virus, you can't get Delta from being vaccinated.

[twin_ghost]

88. I'm going back to lock down mode until they figure out what is going on.

[Mosby]

89. Stats people have issues.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[uponit7771]

91. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 Some of the data I'm seeing on delta is at minimum innumeracy

[BGBD]

92. You're going to get covid

Because it's endemic now. Get the vaccine and don't worry constantly about stopping the inevitable.

[Jim G.]

96. You Don't Even Believe The Crap You Post

[Jim G.]

98. I'll Bet You Have Some Fancy Masks

To match your crystals & stuff.