It should disturb you that Turner is the subject of the chatter today, not Shontel Brown

[bigtree]

...if you're spending your time still trying to bury the loser in the special primary for U.S. House in Cuyahoga County, you're doing Democratic political advocacy wrong.

Link to tweet

smart take:

Tom Watson @tomwatson 15h
If Shontel Brown holds on in #OH11, it's the story of an underdog who came back from 35 points down, worked the doors, built the lists, ran an upbeat Democratic campaign, and showed incredible political talent and grit against a big national political operation.

[Me.]

1. It Doesn't

THe shock value of someone being such a poor loser will draw notice and btw, it was Rep. Brown who was invited on the news shows.

[George II]

4. Even though Turner half-heartedly conceded last night, she failed to congratulate Shontel Brown....

At least not publicly.

[Happy Hoosier]

2. Disagree

It's worth highlighting how awful Turner is.

Congratulations to Shontel Brown!

[George II]

3. Spare us the lecture, please. This is just pent up emotion from the months of abuse....

....that has been heaped upon Shontel Brown, her supporters, and the Democratic "establishment".

After all that has been thrown at GOOD Democrats, they/we deserve a cooling off period of what might be considered gloating.

[SharonClark]

5. Well said.

[empedocles]

8. Also, the threat that a turner type, presents to Democratic electoral success.

[Demsrule86]

16. I live in the district and saw Turner's bus...with numerous insults to Democrats driving around

and our local news reported more of what she had to say...so I am thrilled she lost. And Shontel is terrific. She worked her but off...way harder than her rival IMHO.

[betsuni]

38. +1

[WHITT]

6. Yep

Link to tweet

[leftstreet]

7. Meh. Wasn't it like 14% turnout or something?

maybe 18

[George II]

12. Turnout was 25% of turnout from last year's general election and almost exactly equal to....

....Democratic primary turnout last year:

2020 77,000
2021 75,000

Very good for a special election off-year primary.

For comparison purposes, turnout for the 2018 NY-14 Democratic primary was less than 11%.

[leftstreet]

14. I understand it's a safe seat all the same

Just don't think there's much of a statement here for everyone to gnaw over

Low turnout generally favors establishment candidates since the older/boomer voters basically just sift through candidate flyers in their mailboxes, and then vote the way they intended all along.

I do wonder if Turner misread the room. She would have needed high turnout and young voters.

[JohnSJ]

20. What Turner misread was she should have apologized for comparing Biden to a bowl of S**t, and

besides having more contributions than Brown, accuse Brown’s supporter’s of some kind of “evil” money conspiracy

Turner got exactly what she deserved

She was party of the Sirota, Brianna Joy Gray hate fest against the Democratic Party

[TheFarseer]

40. Never apologize

It just makes them attack even harder if you admit they have reason to attack. She shouldn’t have said it in the first place.

[JohnSJ]

42. Apologizing when you are wrong is an attribute of leadership

[lapucelle]

22. "Older/boomer voters basically just sift through candidate flyers & then vote the way they intended

to all along." How remarkably dismissive of a large swath of Democratic voters.

[JustAnotherGen]

23. Thanks - yeah

I'm gen x - and that's not how I vote.

I would contend especially for my generation - we vote very carefully. Concerned about our parents, children (sandwich), fewer of gen x to carry the load, 3 major economic disasters in our careers (not even counting covid) . . .

We have a lot more at stake than just student loans.

[leftstreet]

26. I think it's true of GOP voters, too

I think the statistics and studies support it

Boomers and the elderly who regularly vote (especially in primaries) tend to be influenced more by mailbox flyers and nightly news headlines than in depth internet searching or personal party activism. They're comfortable enough to want status quo, so that's how they tend to vote

It's not a dig at any party

[lapucelle]

27. Can you cite the statisics and studies that support your claim that "Older/boomer voters basically

just sift through candidate flyers & then vote the way they intended to all along"?

Employing age-based negative stereotypes is still inexcusable, even if it is equally applied to Democrats and Republicans.





.

[leftstreet]

28. What's negative about party loyal voters?

Where would both parties be without them?

There's lots of stuff to be researched for statistics and studies, but I would assume you'd already know more than I do so I wouldn't know what sources you prefer. A simple Google search could get you started

https://news.yale.edu/2020/08/11/study-americans-prize-party-loyalty-over-democratic-principles
Study: Americans prize party loyalty over democratic principles

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/
1. Trends in party affiliation among demographic group

[lapucelle]

29. Wait...what/ You didn't make a statements about "party loyal" voters.

You made statements about "the older/boomer voters" and "Boomers and the elderly who regularly vote".

Equivocation doesn't work with me, but, by all means, keep digging.

[leftstreet]

30. I'm sure you're right

why I'm not even sure I could spell such a word as equiva..equivo

no matter

The Democrats will no doubt be razor focused (now this is just an opinion I have no statistics) on rallying the loyal boomer and elderly voters coming into the midterms. Seeing as how there's no Trump...

[lapucelle]

31. "The Democrats"...

... such an interesting framing, as opposed to "Democrats" or "we".

People can rest assured that among "the Democrats" are those who take concern, however unfounded, under advisement.



NB
Copying and pasting the big word saves the trouble of typing 14 meaningless characters and avoids the embarrassment of an "aw shucks moment" not landing quite the way it may have been intended.

[leftstreet]

32. lol n/t

[LetMyPeopleVote]

41. Why Nina Turner, the real 'establishment,' lost Ohio Democratic primary race

Prof. Jason Johnson does a good job here

Link to tweet

The reality of the Ohio primary is that Nina Turner, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, was the Establishment in this race. She had more money, higher name recognition and tons of celebrity endorsements in her pocket. Her opponent Shontel Brown was a local Cuyahoga County Democratic Party chair, that nobody would’ve been able to pick out of a lineup four months ago. And yet, Turner still lost.....

However, Nina Turner was a former national surrogate of a presidential campaign, former elected official, television pundit, college professor, SuperPAC director and lobbyist, who got endorsed by the major local newspaper Cleveland Plain Dealer, had Hollywood backing her and could raise thousands of dollars with one mass text. It doesn’t get more Establishment than that, which is ultimately why Turner lost the election. ....

Nina Turner had burned a lot of bridges in local Cleveland politics years ago, and voters have long memories. This is not to say that Shontel Brown didn’t have her detractors; her management of the Cuyahoga County Democrats was seen as biased and one local organizer told me that Shontel’s campaign trafficked in colorism and classism. I heard a number of people complain that Brown’s only policy position was ‘supporting Joe Biden’ and they wanted more.....

Nina Turner raised $4.5 million in campaign funds to Brown’s $2 million and while outside groups spent slightly more on pro-Brown advertising, Turner had been on the air much longer so the air war was basically a wash. The truth is, had Turner kept the race about fighting crime in Ohio City and PPP loans for failing businesses in Tower City, Jim Clyburn would’ve never driven into Cleveland in a caravan like a Democratic King Jaffe Joffer with the entire CBC in tow.

Turner didn’t lose because of “dark money,” she lost because local voters don’t live their lives on Twitter, don’t read puff pieces in The New York Times and didn’t want the Progressive Establishment carpetbagging into town and telling people how to vote. Not to mention, Shontel Brown is actually a pretty darn good public servant.

[Demsrule86]

17. It is a safe Democratic seat...many don't bother voting and it was a special election to boot.

I live in Bedford Ohio and it was the only thing on our ballot.

[hlthe2b]

9. It is called "RELIEF" and it is fully justified. That relief likewise includes confidence in Brown

and celebration of her victory.

It isn't "either/or" but both. And, the perception that Turner would be detrimental to future progress in Congress is not unfounded. SO....

RELIEF

[NurseJackie]

10. Not at all! Not a single iota! We are RELIEVED!

It should disturb you that Turner is the subject of the chatter today, not Shontel Brown
...if you're spending your time still trying to bury the loser in the special primary for U.S. House in Cuyahoga County, you're doing Democratic political advocacy wrong.

Says who?

[bluewater]

11. The primary is over, time to close ranks behind the winner and not alienate supporters of the loser.

+1000

[jimfields33]

13. Totally agree.

Turner received 44 percent. It’s not like it was three percent or something. We definitely need those 44 percent to vote in the general house race.

[Demsrule86]

19. It is a safe Democratic seat...much like AOC's only here in Ohio we tend to be more moderate.

[bluewater]

21. Isn't a US Senate seat up for grabs in Ohio in 2022?

Yes, there is.

So why alienate ANY democratic voter in that House district since they will also be voting in statewide races too?

It makes no sense to alienate the supporters of the loser in the recent House primary and discourage their turnout in the 2022 election.



Again, the primary is over, we should all close ranks behind the winner and not alienate supporters of the loser.

[Demsrule86]

24. If the left or Turner voters don't vote for the Democratic candidate than their is no point

honestly. I despise Nina Turner and will not pretend otherwise. She is not a Democrat and played a role in electing Trump in 16 and attacked Biden in 20. Tim Ryan is the only chance we have in the Senate race but it is a longshot. I would be lying if I said otherwise. I am hoping Josh Mandel is the candidate. He is weak. I am hoping that we can win the Senate race.

[bluewater]

25. The primary is over, its time TO GET BEHIND THE WINNER and not alienate supporters of the loser.

My point addresses both sides of the coin. Turner and Turner supporters need to get behind the winner, and everyone else should try hard not to alienate supporters of the loser.

It's about turnout in 2022. There is simply no point in being counter productive and refighting the last primary and discouraging turnout - to any degree - in 2022.

That's my point.

Thanks for the discussion.

[treestar]

34. Do you vote on whether you are alienated

by some supporter of a candidate, or vote for your best interests among the choices?

[bluewater]

36. That's an interesting question for the general case.

Last edited Thu Aug 5, 2021, 10:05 AM - Edit history (1)

I think that, in the aggregate, voters often vote against their best interests for various emotional reasons.

Apparently many people vote against their best interests and vote Republican, don't they? There have been quite a few books written about that actually.



So, I guess it's obvious that people do vote, or don't bother to vote at all, against their best interests quite often, for a variety of reasons, including emotional reasons like resentment or perceived slights to themselves or their opinions.

Human nature, gotta love it.

[kentuck]

15. It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease...

i suppose?

[brooklynite]

18. What "chatter" are you referring to?

As for me, there's more significance in the fact that a non-Democrat radical fringe candidate tried to grab the Democratic nomination in OH-11 than in the fact that a Democrat actually won and will win in November.

[frogmarch]

33. and true crime shows draw more viewers

than good deed shows would if they existed.

[LowerManhattanite]

35. I do think a few days grace can be extended to supporters...

…of the candidate who DIDN’T profanely trash the party’s standard bearer. They are exulting in a victory over someone who hasn’t always been there for fellow Dems.

They deserve that space.

[honest.abe]

37. Its fine to highlight a failure that is actually a positive.

Imho

[LetMyPeopleVote]

39. Nina Turner's loss in Ohio means Biden doesn't need to keep caving to the left

This race has some interesting implications. AOC and the squad demanded that OH11 voters send Nina Turner to bolster their power to block President Biden's plans

Link to tweet

Shontel's victory over Nina and the Squad is important in that it gives Joe Biden more flexibility

Link to tweet

That’s what makes Shontel Brown’s upset victory on Tuesday in an Ohio special election so refreshing. She beat Nina Turner, the epitome of smashmouth-style liberalism, in a Democratic primary to fill the House seat vacated by Housing and Urban Development Secretary Marcia L. Fudge.

Brown prevailed by embracing President Biden — and celebrating his brand of incrementalism. “This is about making progress, and sometimes that takes compromise,” she said during her victory speech in a Cleveland suburb. “Because when you demand all or nothing, usually you end up with nothing.”....

Biden has to be attentive to the left, given Democrats’ slim House majority. But Tuesday’s results suggest he doesn’t need to contort himself to placate the party’s progressive wing — as he’s doing with the extension of the eviction moratorium — as much as they demand or he has often deemed necessary.....

Fear was another motivation for CBC leaders. They privately worried a Turner victory would embolden additional radicals to launch primary challenges against incumbent Black lawmakers in 2022. What happened to Lacy Clay in Missouri remains top of mind. The 10-term congressman, whose father co-founded the CBC, was defeated in a primary last summer by activist Cori Bush, who had the support of Sanders and the Democratic Socialists of America.

And that may be the real significance of the Ohio results. They show the leader of the Democratic Party is not Sanders or AOC. It’s Biden. And he should start acting like it. At least he can count on Shontel Brown’s vote.

[betsuni]

43. No, someone says something really stupid, there's going to be chatter.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

44. This is Joe Biden's Party Now

The Democratic Party is Joe's party

Link to tweet

This is Joe Biden's party now. That was the indisputable message sent after Cuyahoga County Councilwoman Shontel Brown defeated former Ohio state senator Nina Turner in the Democratic primary to succeed Marcia Fudge. The special election to fill the seat in Ohio's 11th Congressional District will be held in a few months, but the outcome is already known, given that it is one of the bluest districts in the country.

This race was once thought to be a slam dunk for Turner, given that she began with a commanding 35 point lead and strong name recognition. Turner cemented herself as a progressive, anti-establishment firebrand over the past several years as a fierce backer of Senator Bernie Sanders' 2016 and 2020 Presidential runs. She refused to back Hillary Clinton's presidential bid once she became the Democratic nominee, and last year compared voting for Joe Biden to eating a bowl of excrement.....

While progressives have had some success during Donald Trump's tenure, the political winds are now blowing in a different direction. A recent AP poll found that 92 percent of Democrats approve of Biden's work as President. That means it is going to be difficult for progressives who brand themselves as anti-Biden or anti-establishment to win.

This point was implicitly acknowledged by the pro-Sanders group Our Revolution when their executive director rebranded them as "pragmatic progressives" who were willing to work with President Biden's more moderate agenda rather than flatly oppose it. You can see this also in other recent progressive losses in high profile races, such as the runoff election in Louisiana's 2nd district, or the Virginia gubernatorial and New York mayoral primaries. Centrist candidate Eric Adams, now the Democratic nominee for mayor of New York, went as far as to call himself the "Biden of Brooklyn."....

While the race between Brown and Turner might not be the biggest of the year, it is nevertheless important because it is emblematic of how internal Democratic dynamics will play out during the Biden years. Turner showed us that even a well funded anti-establishment candidate with name recognition and endorsements can lose in this Democratic environment.