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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMore detail on the Mexican Government vs US gunmakers lawsuit.
Last edited Mon Aug 9, 2021, 08:17 PM - Edit history (1)
It is a long shot in the courts but there's more at stake than just the gun lawsuit. It's also a diplomatic issue.
Mexico has very strict gun control and issues perhaps 50 permits to purchase a year. The lawsuit alleges more than 200,000 illegal guns have been sold into the country and that US gun makers are tailoring their marketing to drug cartels. Funny how that marketing thing keeps cropping up isn't it? As evidence of the intentional marketing to cartels the Mexican Government cites the limited edition Emiliano Zapata gold plated .38 1911 inscribed with Zapata's quote "It's better to die standing than to live on your knees." The gun is a status symbol among cartel leaders. Detractors claim Mexico is part of the problem being the largest importer of US guns for police and military use and having lax controls on them. Seems Mexico 'lost' about 1,700 guns over two years. 1,700 vs 200,000? Looks like a red herring to me.
As an example of US guns used by cartels an assassination attempt on a Mexico City police chief included: three Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifles*, a Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol and 5.56mm caliber carbine, a Ruger 5.56mm caliber rifle and a Colt 5.56mm caliber carbine. All traceable to the US. In fact up to 90% of recovered crime guns are from the US.
Mexico is seeking $10 billion in damages for economic loss but the stakes are higher. The suit is used as leverage against the DEA and the US war on drugs. As pressure is put on the Mexican Government to stop the flow of drugs into the US, Mexico is responding with pressure to stop the gun flow into their country. Sounds reasonable to me.
This is from an NPR article. Not that long but doesn't lend itself to cut-n-paste. It is well worth the read.
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/07/1025636092/mexico-lawsuit-united-states-gun-companies-analysis
*The Barret .50 cal sniper rifle fires a bullet about the size of an adult thumb at speeds approaching 4000 feet per second. It's accuracy is measured in miles but the real attraction is that it will penetrate most armored vehicles, brick walls, any vehicle's engine block and is an 'if you can see it you can kill it' kind of gun. If you can pass a background check you can buy one from any licensed gun dealer over the counter. I ask again, What the fuck is wrong with us?
edit: I will no longer respond to any reply to this post. The gunners are trying for another lock and I won't give it to them.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)I really think the heart of your piece is here:
Mexico is seeking $10 billion in damages for economic loss but the stakes are higher. The suit is used as leverage against the DEA and the US war on drugs. As pressure is put on the Mexican Government to stop the flow of drugs into the US, Mexico is responding with pressure to stop the gun flow into their country. Sounds reasonable to me.
And as for your question What the fuck is wrong with us? I only have a smartass answer. Where do I start?
HAB911
(8,891 posts)Insanity stalks the land
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)EX500rider
(10,848 posts)That has been misquoted for years now.
90% of Weapons the Mexican's have asked the US to trace came from the US but that's because they ask us to trace US made weapons. That is about 36% of weapons they recovered.
https://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/counting-mexicos-guns/
AndyS
(14,559 posts)So tell us all where the rest of them came from.
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)Are you under the impression that US is the only country in the world that produces firearms?
AndyS
(14,559 posts)There are some Chinese suppliers of AK-47s but the 5.56 is the choice.
So, the Mexican government only ask for help identifying 36% of crime guns, 90% of which are US guns. How many others had no serial number or had the number obliterated? Ghost guns have become big business in the last few years 'cause no gun trafficker wants the guns traced back to them. In California a third of crime guns recovered are Ghost guns (police records as of 2019).
You seem knowledgeable, so can you help fill out where the other 64% of the Mexican guns came from?
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)Norinco (China)
Fabbrica d'Armi Pietro Beretta S.p.A. (Italy)
FN HERSTAL (Belgium)
Heckler & Koch GmbH (Germany)
Taurus International Manufacturing, Inc. (Brazil)
Kalashnikov (Russia)
Thales Group (France)
Etc
NickB79
(19,243 posts)You think the cartels are getting grenades, heavy machine guns and rocket launchers from the US gun stores?
Either by threat or bribery, a steady stream of guns leaves Mexican military stockpiles thru Mexican military personnel
AndyS
(14,559 posts)I mean, you seem to think accurate %s are important so what is that number? We already know that more than a third of Mexican crime guns are US because you pointed that out. So what number has been traced to the Mexican Military?
Could it be that some of those heavy arms are Chinese? I dunno, do you?
Inquiring minds, ya' know.
Response to AndyS (Reply #12)
NickB79 This message was self-deleted by its author.
NickB79
(19,243 posts)It discusses how legal US arms exports go from military and police to the streets, or used by paramilitary groups in atrocities.
https://theintercept.com/2018/04/26/mexico-arms-trade-us-gun-sales/
AndyS
(14,559 posts)The only number germane to illegal guns entering the crime market is the 20,000 cited as missing. That's a sizeable number at 10% of the guns (200,000) cited in the Mexican lawsuit.
Great article, I recommend it for basic information on this aspect of the gun trafficking.
SYFROYH
(34,170 posts)AndyS
(14,559 posts)Just add $10 handling fees.
In other words exactly what does that have to do with an active marketing campaign to drug cartel leaders who covet a gold plated reproduction of his gun?
Bring something useful to the conversation, okay.
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)AndyS
(14,559 posts)A gold plated limited edition reproduction? Yeah, US Latinos are definitely the market.
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)AndyS
(14,559 posts)Mexican government alleges. I mean, really? A gold plated limited edition reproduction seen as a status symbol among cartel leaders is actually just an outreach to US Latinos?
If you really believe that I have a 1/4 acre lot in Kansas for sale. Ocean front. On two oceans. A bit of a walk to the beach but what the hell, two oceans!
When are you going to fill in the blank on the % of guns going to cartels from the Mexican military? Only crickets so far.
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)But it is well known that the heavy weapons and automatic weapons do come from deserters or stolen from armories in Mexico
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)Is it more likely a corporate focus group sat around and said how can we capture a bigger share of the US Latino market or more likely they sat around and said how can we capture the foreign Mexican drug lord market who can't legally buy US firearms?
If the drug lords all drove Escalades that wouldn't prove GM aimed the product at them either.
And regardless, if they couldn't buy that specific weapon is it more likely they would go unarmed or quit and get a real job or would they just carry a Glock or a H&K etc in which case what difference does it make?
malaise
(268,998 posts)have shown up in Jamaica
AndyS
(14,559 posts)A bit from here, a bit from there but we have established that more than a third of crime guns come from the US and we know this only because those are guns with serial numbers.
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)AndyS
(14,559 posts)EX500rider
(10,848 posts)The cartels will get guns even if the US didn't have any.. they happen to be experts at smuggling and have lots of cash
AndyS
(14,559 posts)all of DU know who your are. Believe people when the tell you who they are . . .
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)People with smuggling networks that extend around the entire planet and have so much money they weigh it instead of counting it will not have trouble buying firearms in other countries
AndyS
(14,559 posts)EX500rider
(10,848 posts)Who else would I blame?
You're pretty naive if you believe they couldn't get weapons from many countries in the world with amount of money they have.
ripcord
(5,399 posts)EX500rider
(10,848 posts)...maybe they should step up car & truck searches at the border, I doubt the firearms flew in from the US.
It's just a Red Herring anyway, if zero firearms crossed the border it's not like they couldn't pick them up by the crateful at weapons bazaars in Africa, Middle East & Central Asia. These guys are professional smugglers with cash to burn.
The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime's World Drug Report 2005 estimates the size of the global illicit drug market at US$321.6 billion in 2003 alone. I doubt it has gone down since then.
EX500rider
(10,848 posts)How exactly, by discussing the subject?
If you didn't want people to discuss it you probably shouldn't have posted it.
Or were you just hoping only people who agreed with you would post?
Or do you mean you might get locked out of it if you can't keep your cool and discuss it in a rational manner?