UPDATE: Anti-Masker Arrested At Costco

[rustysgurl]

I want to thank everyone for their kindness and support. For those who didn't read my initial post, it can be found here

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215715194|

The last few days have been filled with phone calls, meetings and a visit to my doctor. I have to wait 3-5 days after the incident to get tested. That will happen Friday.

My attacker was charged with simple assault and battery, both misdemeanors. She was also charged with resisting arrest, so apparently she gave the officers difficulty (which I didn't witness). She has no prior criminal history, so the judge released her on $5,000 bond with a no contact order. I spoke with detectives and the District Attorney and they assured me all documents pertaining to this case WILL NOT show my address. They took pictures of my injuries (bruises and scratches) and I will continue to cooperate with the authorities to hold this woman accountable.

I've also consulted an attorney regarding a possible civil suit, with an appointment set for next week. Costco called and I think they are nervous that I might sue them (I'm not leaning that way). They told me the woman was trespassed and her membership cancelled. She won't be shopping there anymore. I guess she can go to Sam's and give the Waltons her money.

I'm doing ok. At first I was shaken but now I'm just angry. Angry that this woman had the audacity to think I would just do what she told me to do, then physically attack me when I didn't do it. I don't know if she is married or has children, but if she does, I shudder to think how she treats them if she will attack a perfect stranger.

It's hotter than blazes here, with enough humidity to feel like a sauna. We're under a heat advisory for the next few days -- a perfect excuse to stay inside and away from people. Stay safe!

[marble falls]

1. Jeepers. You stay safe!!!

[IbogaProject]

2. Absolutely sue her

Absolutely sue her, you should be having nightmares and other distress after you were attacked, especially the mask pulling and the suprise from behind parts.

[NonPC]

14. Sue Her

Sue her into bankruptcy. She needs to go thru numerous months of worry wondering how much money she is going to lose in addition to her attorney fees. This will have a much more profound effect on her psyche than a suspended sentence or probation. Since you have witnesses and and a Costco tape, I think this will be a slam dunk for your attorney.

[calimary]

31. Yep. SUE her.

If one aims for the pocketbook one's point may tend to be sharper and more painfully felt.

[Effete Snob]

37. The problem is that if you want to sue someone, you have to empty your pocketbook first

How much of a retainer should the OP pay, up front, to an attorney to take this case (absent Costco as a defendant), based on an estimate of the cost of pursuing a lawsuit (attorney rate times number of hours)? Let's call that number X.

And if the answer is "nothing because the attorney will work on a contingent fee" then how much money, in immediate liquid assets like cash, can one get from the defendant? Let's call that number Y.

Unless Y >> 3X, the attorney will not take the case on contingency and the OP will have to pay cash up front to sue.

[calimary]

32. Yep. SUE her.

If one aims for the pocketbook one's point may tend to be sharper and more painfully felt.

[calimary]

45. Yep. Sue her.

It seems to be a most effective punitive target (aiming at the pocketbook or bank balance). That does seem to get their attention.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

3. Thank you for your report and I hope the tests are negative

I am glad that you pressed changes and that she is being charged

[MLAA]

4. So glad you and the authorities are following through!

If she has an employer I hope they learn about this.

[Hekate]

5. Thanks for the update!

[Sogo]

6. You've got more restraint that I do.

Had someone attacked me like that, THEY would have been the one with bruises, not me.....

Hope you take her for a lot in your suit.

I'm sure she's not happy about being banned from COSTCO.

[Ilsa]

7. Thank you for the update. I was

wondering if the police and ADA were going to be on top of this.

Personally, I think this kind of assault should be a felony because of the fear it invokes because she is a stranger.

Get well, soon, and don't let holding her accountable wear you down.

[Beachnutt]

8. You should sue the shit out of her

and costco.

[StarryNite]

9. Thank you for the update.

Please continue to keep us posted. Hopefully you will test negative for Covid and be able to share the good news with us.

[imaginary girl]

10. Might want to take a short trip out soon with ...

You might want to take a short trip out soon with somebody along for emotional support. My son was attacked in a craft store recently (no provocation or warning, we were just heading to the checkout aisle together and were blindsided by a group of teens we didn't know). No huge injury, but he was knocked to the ground and hit in the head with a fist.

My point is that we felt really uncomfortable the next couple of times we went out, even though logically we knew we shouldn't. We did go out the next day and then again about a week later. It just messes with your sense of safety and trust.

[Ferryboat]

19. It seems to be a new sport

Primarily young men walking to total strangers and sucker punching them.

[Johnny2X2X]

29. Nothing new about it

Been going on for several decades, just started being captured by camera the last decade or two. I remember in the 80s this was a thing at malls.

[KT2000]

21. that is really good advice

Things like this can really rearrange our brains and change how we live. Brains don't really shrug things off, they just adapt to something new - one way or another.

[Walleye]

11. We are all becoming soldiers in this war against Covid

Good job. You shouldn’t of had to go through it, but you did very well. I know this kind of thing is extremely upsetting.

[NurseJackie]

12. Glad you're safe. (Even if you're not inclined to sue Costco, I'll bet a lifetime membership...

Glad you're safe. (Even if you're not inclined to sue Costco, I'll bet a lifetime membership could be in the cards for you.)

[Effete Snob]

38. This is the most sensible post in the thread

[Vinca]

13. OMG - I hadn't read your original post. Good for you for not strangling her and letting her get

arrested (3 cheers for security camera footage). If she's got 2 dimes to rub together I'd sue her for both of them. Just amazing. Glad you're okay.

[Liberal In Texas]

15. If you sue her your attorneys will probably want to include Costco in the suit.

That's where the $ $ are and they'll want to get as much as possible in a settlement so they can get paid well.

Also, your anonymity will be out the window. The other side may want to depose you and you should be prepared for a trial. Which might roll around in a couple of years or so.

[SWBTATTReg]

16. I didn't read your first account so thank you for having the link for those of us to catch up on

your report(s). Wow. What an idiot and how irresponsible she was towards you and your health, as well as all of those around her.

I wanted to mention that YES, you should sue her.

YES, you should tell COSTCO that if they don't want to be sued by you, that they should let every retailer on Earth know about this woman and her dangerous conduct and that they all should not allow here into their stores either, nor should they allow any online trades/commerce with her. These people should pay for their transgressions ...

It seems like to me that they don't mind trampling the rights of fellow Americans when it rubs them the wrong way...make her pay dearly for this unwarranted attack on you.

My best wishes for you. My god, I can't believe that such idiots are around...you hear about it, treat it like the urban myths that one hears, and then your story comes along...Wow, just wow.

[hlthe2b]

17. I appreciate the update. It sounds like all concerned are acting as they should to bring justice AND

send a message to this woman and others like her. I too would not be tempted to sue COSTCO, but I think you could use this as an opportunity to ask them to clarify--both locally and on a corporate level--how they would propose to deal with these situations in the future. They may have done many things right (albeit with delay) but now is the opportunity to establish some protocols.

Good luck to you. I'm glad you were not badly hurt.

[Farmer-Rick]

18. Thanks for the update

I always wonder what happens after people post their confrontations with the crazies.

My confrontation yesterday was not so violent. I was driving and forgot I still had on my mask. This strange gray haired, white woman drove up next to my car waving, honking her horn and pointing to the side of the road, as if she wanted me to pull over. I had just filled my gas tank and knew my car was fine and the cap back on. Then she made some gestures towards her mouth and I figured out what she was about. She pulls in front of me and I see all her Trump/GOP bumper stickers. She then pulls over along side the road. I drove by waving at the silly thing.

I wonder if she ever got anyone to pull over?

Stay safe.

[musette_sf]

20. Sounds like an attempted

Sovereign Citizen's Arrest.

[orleans]

22. questions: costco called you & said the woman was trespassing? and her membership was

cancelled?
did this happen before the incident with you?

if so, then she wasn't allowed there and she got in anyway?

[Effete Snob]

28. Costco is playing a word game for legal reasons

If you have railroad tracks in your area onto which people frequently wander and are killed, you will occasionally read the story of "Trespasser Hit By Train" in which a trespasser came to grief upon the tracks - sometimes in an area in which people frequently wander and the railroad does a poor job of keeping them out.

The legal duties one owes to persons on one's property depends, in part, on what sort of a visitor you have. Are they an "invitee", a "licensee", a "trespasser" or some other sort of person whose categorization may determine your liability?

https://www.rafilawfirm.com/blog/invitee-licensee-trespasser-difference-impact-premises-liability-case/

Invitee-Licensee-Trespasser — What is the difference and how does it impact a premises liability case?

Now, unlike other stores in which the general public may wander in, Costco is a membership club. Costco doesn't allow just anyone in. Costco regulates who may join, on what conditions, what rules they must follow and likewise how one may remain a member.

So, I guarantee you, Costco is much more sensitive to premises liability matters involving customer-customer interactions, because Costco is, in part, responsible for who is allowed to be a customer in the first place.

Costco is going to call this person a trespasser based upon either a membership defect of some kind which they could dig up, or based on a theory that the person became a trespasser the moment they breached the conditions of membership and attacked another customer. In this way, Costco can argue that this was not a case of member-member interaction, but was a trespasser-member interaction in which there is a heightened barrier on the road to finding them liable.

Oh, and I left out the most important part of this calculation. Before you consult with your attorney, either send your attorney, or bring with you, the Costco Membership terms and conditions to which you, and the other customer, agreed upon applying for and being granted your membership (they will be the current terms because it likely has an evergreen clause). Before your consultation would be preferable, so that the attorney may briefly look at those terms for a few important zingers that are probably in it. Your legal relationship with Costco is largely defined by those terms.

[rustysgurl]

39. In this case "trespass" is a verb

She WAS a Costco member and was in the store "legally." However, her actions on Sunday led Costco to "trespass" her (legally notify her - verballly and in the presence of police -- that she was no longer welcome in any of their stores). This means that if she showed up again police would arrest her immediately. That, along with her Costco membership being cancelled, would lead me to believe she won't be at that (or any Costco) store anymore. These actions were done by Costco after the attack, and obviously communicated to me to (I assume) give me a sense of comfort that I would be safe continuing to shop there.

[orleans]

53. thanks for explaining this. i don't go to costco (or sams club) so i'm not up on how this

membership thing works.
i also thought she might have been banned before and just ended up back in the store.

i wish you a world of luck with whatever path you decide to take regarding this majorly fu*ked up thing that happened.

[leftyladyfrommo]

23. Which Costco was it? I am in KCMO North. nt

[rustysgurl]

40. Kansas side n/t

[Jon King]

24. Sue her!!!

These scum must be held accountable. Get to a doctor, document everything, and sue her for physical injuries and mental anguish.

[kairos12]

25. Sue her so she can setup in a Hoover(MAGA)Ville. She's vile.

[Effete Snob]

26. Depends on what you want

I've also consulted an attorney regarding a possible civil suit, with an appointment set for next week. Costco called and I think they are nervous that I might sue them (I'm not leaning that way)

Costco has money, your attacker probably doesn't. Or, more accurately, Costco's insurer has money.

If the expectation is that the attorney would sue an individual on a contingent fee basis, then it will be important to know how much money she has, or how much money you are willing to spend on a largely symbolic effort to attach whatever property your attacker has.

For example, no attorney is going to spend their time going after someone on a contingent basis, if the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is being able to repo someone's car or get a lien on their shack somewhere. Actually, getting a lien on someone's mansion somewhere isn't going to pay the kids' tuition either. Sooo.... did your attacker look like she had, say, $60k in cash sitting around?

If not, then you can shell out a lot of money for what amounts to a symbolic victory over the attacker. That can be a good value, since it brings immeasurable emotional satisfaction, but litigation to "prove a point" is expensive, and there is no incentive for the attorney to take a case like that on a contingent basis. Courts are cost inefficient places to obtain moral vindication. One might instead, do something like pay the attorney to send a threat letter and state that a payment of $X or a letter of apology will be accepted in settlement of the claim.

On the other hand, if this attorney is of the ordinary contingent-fee variety - i.e. in which you pay nothing to the attorney who agrees to accept and litigate the case in exchange for a percentage of the award - then there is no question that Costco would be an appropriate defendant here. While the customer is certainly an intervening cause of your injury, one could suggest that Costco's failure to impress the rules upon all customers or their slow response to your plight was a contributing cause of your injuries, public embarrassment, and so on. It is, after all, the fact that customers are injured in commercial establishments which leads those establishments to insure themselves.

Finally, depending on additional factors specific to customer-on-customer injury claims and their history in this state, it could be that you may not be able to go after one without going after the other, on what could perhaps be a procedural requirement to join all necessary parties in the action. In other words, there can be situations in which any one defendant may claim that the participation of some other unjoined potential defendant is necessary to resolve the entire dispute, particularly if your attacker wants to claim that you were the aggressor and bring in Costco. This possibility is something of an outside shot.

It will be interesting to hear what you decide.

[rustysgurl]

41. I used to be a paralegal

and ironically, one of the areas I worked in was personal injury (in addition to family and some criminal cases). I know enough to make my way through the system and, hopefully, make good, informed decisions. I've assumed that any attorney I hire will want to involve Costco in the lawsuit. If that happens, it'll be up to the Court to decide whether they dismiss any action against Costco because Costco could not have "foreseen" what this woman did in their store. We'll see .. it's still to early to tell.

Anything I do going forward will be on a contingency fee basis, of course. And I do realize that, given the slowness of the court system (even before the pandemic) that will, in all probability, take years.

[Effete Snob]

42. It's good to have realistic expectations

People walk into lawyer's offices like they are coming on down to the Price is Right.

Costco's shift to "trespasser" is amusing.

[Joinfortmill]

27. 👍

[MissMillie]

30. physical assault--misdemeanor?

Maybe I'm the most naive person in the country, but that seems wrong.

[rustysgurl]

44. In Kansas ...

"simple" assault and/or battery (they are different) are misdemeanors. You don't have to touch someone to earn an assault charge. The legal definition of assault is "to put someone in apprehension of harm." Her saying "if you don't move I'm going to move you" was assault. Her actually attacking me was the battery. Assault can become a felony (or aggravated assault) for a variety of reasons: using a weapon, attacking a police officer or public official, causing "great" bodily harm, abuse of the elderly or a child, or while under the influence. These are just the initial charges. The DA can upgrade or add new charges at any time.

[NurseJackie]

46. You've already become an expert on this subject. (Sorry.)

But thanks for the info.

[Whiskeytide]

33. If you sue civilly, your anonymity ...

… will be lost. In fact, a criminal prosecution will probably reveal your identity. She will generally have the right to confront her accuser.

But if your identity is revealed anyway, you probably should consider at least a restraining order (permanent, not the temporary no contact order in place now).

Effete Snob has some good advice for you in the above post. I would add that most criminal courts have the ability to order victim restitution as part of a plea deal or a guilty verdict. That could recover your medical costs without the need for a civil suit. Note that in most instances, you may have to fully or partially reimburse your health Ins carrier if you recover medical expenses that it paid on your behalf. Also, restitution would usually not include mental anguish, pain and suffering. Just hard costs.

It’s accurate that a civil lawyer is probably not going to want to take this case unless there is evidence that this woman has attachable assets. Even then, she could avoid paying by filing bankruptcy. But look into it. Maskholes come in all socio-economic levels. (Maybe she has a nice boat with a Тяцмр flag on it??).

COSTCO might have liability - perhaps for failing to have sufficient security or if she had a prior history of starting trouble in the store and they let her in anyway - but frankly I think that’s a long shot. Generally shopkeepers are not liable for the criminal acts of a third party.

If your identity is revealed eventually, you could consider a small claims or state district court action which you could bring yourself without a lawyer. Armed with the video and your medical bills, it sounds like a slam dunk. You would be limited to a jurisdictional cap (in Ala it’s $2,500 in SCs court and $10k in district Court), but that might be enough - especially if she’s not a Rockefeller. Your lawyer you are consulting with can explain all of that in greater detail.

Be careful. And good luck.

[AllaN01Bear]

34. funny. they dont like being told what to do . then someone beats the tar out of

u for not doing it their way. hem.

[Meowmee]

35. Take care of yourself

What a terrible thing to go through. I think you can sue costco, she was not a trespasser, she was a member shopping there. Ask an attorney.

[Warpy]

36. Well, don't back down.

If this woman has no priors, then something is going on upstairs that desperately needs attention.

One hopes this will wake her family up, they're often the only ones who can get through to the newly bonkers.

I'm afraid there are a lot of newly bonkers people out there.

[reACTIONary]

43. Going through this once was bad enough, but...

... Jeepers, twice! Keep fighting, although you shouldn't have to.

[Zeitghost]

47. Be prepared

For the criminal case to not meet your expectations of justice. With a first time offender, no serious damages or injuries, etc. it is very possible that this gets pled down to something very minor or ends up with no criminal record through delayed adjudication and probation.


As for a civil suit, unless there is some indication that this woman has significant resources, don't bother. It will be a huge pain, will take forever to work through the system and even if you prevail, you'll have a judgement you can't enforce.

[FakeNoose]

49. Agree - the judge could be sympathetic to the attacker

It's not likely, but it is a possibility. The attacker might get off lightly, probation or something.

Rusty'sgurl can have a no-obligation consultation with a lawyer and find out whether a civil lawsuit should be pursued. It's going to depend on a lot of things, for example maybe the attacker is a homeowner. It might be possible to get a lien on the house, if she refuses to pay.

Good luck Rusty'sgurl, you've been through hell lately.

[Effete Snob]

51. I wouldn't be so harsh on delayed adjudication and probation, though

That sort of thing gets you into the criminal justice system.

If the person in question is a habitual menace or fuckup, and usually gets off with warnings, that ends with a delayed adjudication.

Any traffic stop, disorderliness, or littering becomes more fraught with peril.

If this was truly an out-of-character one-off "really, really bad day" for this person, then they may go on chastened. But the hassle of dealing with even a minor charge, and the potential consequences for a person who has behavioral control issues, aren't "nothing".

[nvme]

48. Good for YOU!

I grew up in a violent household. So anytime I read about a person who can prosecute a violent shitbag makes me feel a lil' Happier.

[UpInArms]

50. So sorry this happened

Hate hate hate what our country has become … why does there have to be a war on intelligence

[Blue Owl]

52. Time to make 'em pay

[MustLoveBeagles]

54. Thanks for the update

Good luck with the Covid test on Friday.

[TrevEB]

55. secure the tapes

this seems obvious but make sure the security recordings at costco have been collected by the police dept. Have your lawyer get a copy for you if possible.