Why aren't Afghan Govt Forces Fighting for their Country ?

[JI7]

I think it's because people in Afghanistan have mostly led lives of just getting by each day.

They don't have lives like most people around the world including in other poor countries.

So what are they going to die for ?

They don't have a life and memories most people have of "home" . And it being worth defending.

This is why I think most are running away from the fight despite the govt forces having more people plus an air force.

[Under The Radar]

1. In the same vein who is funding the Taliban?

The is no possible way that with the money that the US has spent there that a rag tag militia could survive.

[JI7]

2. Pakistan is helping the Taliban

This is why Afghans are calling to sanction Pakistan.

[BigmanPigman]

9. Pakistan also hid Bin Laden.

They are our "friends" as much as the Saudis are.

[Johonny]

27. It's no secret the Obama Afghanistan plan was to tear Afghanistan away from Pakistan

When Trump tore up the Iran agreement any hope of that plan died. Biden would have to start at ground zero with an Iran less interested in helping. Thus, the withdrawal.

[ansible]

21. They're no longer "rag tag" these days and have better training than the Afghan army

They've got a full blown special forces commando division now

[Under The Radar]

23. So who is paying for it?

Who pays the soldiers wages?
Room and board, health cost, Clothing cost, equipment, equipment maintenance cost and services, weapons and munitions, transportation and logistics? If they are so advanced then they became that way while the largest military in the history of the world spent $20 billion each year against them. What organization or country can afford to compete against $20 billion year?

[JI7]

28. What Afghan Refugees are saying is money that Pakistan got

which was supposed to help the refugees in Pakistan instead goes towards things like this.

[stillcool]

3. Who's to say they aren't?

they've been fighting for their life, for their memories, and for their homes for forever. I didn't learn much American History in school, but I can't imagine having to learn the history of most other countries in the world. Regardless of how they are portrayed, they are people. They live, they love, they laugh.

Pre-Islamic Period: Archaeological evidence indicates that urban civilization began in the region occupied by modern Afghanistan between 3000 and 2000 B.C. The first historical documents date from the early part of the Iranian Achaemenian Dynasty, which controlled the region from 550 B.C. until 331 B.C. Between 330 and 327 B.C., Alexander the Great defeated the Achaemenian emperor Darius III and subdued local resistance in the territory that is now Afghanistan. Alexander’s successors, the Seleucids, continued to infuse the region with Greek cultural influence. Shortly thereafter, the Mauryan Empire of India gained control of southern Afghanistan, bringing with it Buddhism. In the mid-third century B.C., nomadic Kushans established an empire that became a cultural and commercial center. From the end of the Kushan Empire in the third century A.D. until the seventh century, the region was fragmented and under the general protection of the Iranian Sassanian Empire.

https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/History/Afghanistan-history.htm

[JI7]

5. Sure , but I'm talking about right now and the govt forces

[stillcool]

13. I won't even pretend to think I know

all the different factions vying for power in that region, or even what government is currently installed. These days, my own country is enough to try and figure out. Why people do the shit they do, what causes people to create gangs, and militia's and want to take what isn't theirs, what causes people to hate other people, why do people in power want to cause friction and division, what happens when a government fails. I think if I find the answers here, the same will apply anywhere.

[maxsolomon]

4. They are.

115 dead in the 1st 5 days in August: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/05/world/asia/afghanistan-casualty-report-august.html

When you're losing a battle, withdrawal is a reasonable tactic.

[JI7]

6. They are losing becsuse many of the soldiers are leaving

[maxsolomon]

8. Or that the Taliban are more numerous, better armed, and more committed.

By and large, the highly-trained Special Forces are fighting.

And dying:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/13/asia/afghanistan-taliban-commandos-killed-intl-hnk/index.html

Walk a mile in their shoes before you judge them. They've been terrorized by the Taliban their entire lives. I remember the suicide attacks on recruiting centers.

Soon, it will be the Taliban's turn to hold territory and defend.

[JI7]

10. No, The Afghan forces have more people. And what you said is exactly what Im saying

they are mostly used to surviving day to day.

They don't have the type of life that most people have around the world including in poor countries.

[Volaris]

19. And to correct that, would take not only the political will to run the countr

Correctly, but a mult-trillion dollar international infrastructure investment that would take a generation to complete.

Kinda hard with the Taliban running around blowing up the project you finished yesterday. It's part and parcel, it cant be done separately. Crushing the Taliban into eternal dust would have required the rest of the Afghani people to commit to the long game AND a continent-wide commitment to turn the country into a first world nation.

We keep thinking we can do it a piece at a time, and it keeps not working.

[Mr.Bill]

7. Could it be because there is nothing worth fighting for

now that we aren't shoveling money at the situation anymore. I don't know, just a thought.

But it's been a long time since we left someplace much better than when we arrived.

[Ron Green]

11. "Their Country" is a concept made up and manipulated by various

colonial empires over the past couple of hundred years. The reality on the ground is a collection of murderous religious zealots, bound in their hatred for lazy Western values, led by warlords and armed to the teeth with modern weapons.

[msongs]

12. one suspects, being a tribal society, they owe loyalty to the head of the tribe, not a nation nt

[BlueTsunami2018]

14. Maybe they *want* radical Islamic rule.

They don’t want “freedom” as we define it. Hell, we don’t even have freedom as we define it. The guys in the military we trained all grew up with this religion that tells them women are inferior objects and non-believers are non-beings. Why wouldn’t they want to keep that power? Why would they want to have women be equal and everyone have the same rights? I’m sure there are some who do but mostly they don’t. They’re aren’t fighting for it because they don’t want to. They like it the way the Taliban puts it. It’s a safe zone and a way of life for centuries there.

It’s none of our business really.

[WarGamer]

15. and THAT is the correct answer...

[Devil Child]

24. Bingo n/t

[Xolodno]

16. There isn't one reason, but first.

You do have some fighting, even some in the Afghan military to die shooting or detonating a grenade once they surround.

With that said...

1. Some joined specifically for the paycheck or as a way hopefully to get out later.

2. Some joined to get the training to defend their village, the concept of a country is a bit lost on them after 40 years and everyone who has that concept is dead or living abroad. Its like living in the ruins of Rome later and told of its glorious empire...which all fell apart. But what do you care, you need to work to keep food in your belly. Remember, Italy is a younger country than the USA.

3. Low morale. Not getting paid or short changed will do that. But what do you expect from corrupt leaders from abroad who fled when it all fell apart and come back for the same grift.

4. Those that are allied against the Taliban would just as soon turn on each other once they are gone.

5. Outside influences. Pakistan has a vested interest in keeping the area a no mans land...because Pakistan has something similar in a portion of its country. If the Soviet Union and the USA can't take the area, what makes India think they want to pursue anything in Pakistan.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Afghanistan isn't a nation.

[Klaralven]

17. Afghanistan isn't a country; it's a place

The Taliban are mostly Pashtuns. About half the Pashtuns live in Pakistan and half in Afghanistan. Even so, Pashtuns make up the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan and historically have been dominant over the Tajik, Uzbek, Turkmen, and Hazara minorities.

[hatrack]

30. It's a collection of clans that happen to live within defined geographic borders . . . .

.

[Klaralven]

31. Four of the main ethnic groups live both inside and outside of Afghanistan

The Turkmen, Uzbeks, and Tajiks live in Afghanistan and in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan across the northern border.

The Durand Line border with Pakistan divides the Pashtun population almost in half.

Afghanistan should be divided, with the southeast attached to Pakistan and the Northwest divided between the neighboring countries.

[hatrack]

35. Like Kurdistan, but even more complicated

.

[David__77]

18. What is their ideology?

Why would they fight with their lives to defend the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan?

[brooklynite]

20. "people in Afghanistan have mostly led lives of just getting by each day."

What does this have to do with what the Afghan military is doing?

They don't have the political system we have.

[GulfCoast66]

22. Because they don't generally disagree with the Taliban on how things should be?

We talk all the time on DU about the danger that religious fundamentalists are to our country. And they are less than 30% here. Imagine a country with 95% religious fundamentalists.

I’m a freethinker. I see no real difference between Islamic fundamentalist and Christian. Does anyone here honestly think that if Christian Fundamentalists were 90% of our population we would be that much different than Afghanistan? Or Saudi Arabia or Iran?

And I’m not saying all Christians. My best friend of 42 years is active in his liberal Christian church. But he would be as oppressed as me if religious fundamentalists took over our country.

[JI7]

26. Yes, I was thinking about the protests over things like cartoons and other "insults"

the protests against Israel also.

But we are not seeing the same with what is happening in Afghanistan which is FAR FAR worse than those other things they were protesting about.

[Takket]

25. i don't think they are in any hurry to chase off the Taliban...

[dalton99a]

29. The ones that were able to leave are living in Fremont, Calif.

Probably 100,000 total have settled in the East Bay

[KentuckyWoman]

32. Live to die another day.

These are men who I assume have a family. There is no point dying for a cause that won't be won any time soon. Go home, gather up your family and try to find a safe place.

It is what I might do in that situation - without regret. It isn't cowardess or weakness to have a clear view of what you are up against and pick your battles.

[greenjar_01]

33. "They don't have lives like most people around the world including in other poor countries."

Holy fuck.

[JI7]

34. You disagree ?