This post has been bouncing around in my head for several weeks. I've even typed and scrapped

[Atticus]

it a couple of times. To get right to the point, I think politically motivated violence---fists, clubs and worse---on our streets, at meetings and in parking lots is inevitable.

And, though I am a liberal Democrat who believes in letting the law deal with most forms of violence, I know that the law will not protect me and mine when some ignorant Trumpie announces he's going to "kick my libtard ass" some night as I'm unlocking my bumper-stickered car. I do not intend to "go gentle into that good night". I intend to make any attempt to kick my "libtard ass" a painful experience.

I am tired of "biting my tongue", "considering the source", and "letting it slide" when some ignoramus showers us with vulgar threats and obscene names. I am prepared to tell these cowards that if they're looking for trouble, they've found it----and then just "go with the flow".

I'm sure the above will disgust some, but it is honest.

[hamsterjill]

1. This old lady agrees

I read the thread the other day about a DU’er being attacked by a crazy idiot for wearing a mask in Costco.

If I experience something like that, I’m fighting back with everything in my power. My intent will be to put a crazy out of commission before they have the opportunity to put me out of commission.

It’s the only language they understand.

[louslobbs]

6. Sadly, it is the only language they understand

otherwise they conclude that you are weak and they can victimize us, fuck that!

[gratuitous]

2. It's what they're pushing for

I hope that I maintain my personal and spiritual discipline when push comes to shove: "You can beat me up, but you're still wrong."

[louslobbs]

7. They're cowards

When you stand up to them, they back down. Big fat mouth's and when confronted they start to shake in their boots.

[louslobbs]

3. Recently, a Trumper invaded my personal space at a Ralph's....the first time

I asked him if he would please step back. I was double masked and he was unmasked. He then proceeded to get closer than six feet a second time. I then told him that he needed to step away from me and not invade my space again. I made this statement loudly and forcefully…..and with an expletive. (What the fuck are you doing, didn’t I just ask you nicely to please step back from me?). The whole place got quiet and the Trumper asked smugly, what I was going to do if he did it again. I told him to GO AHEAD AND DO IT THEN! He didn’t….I am finished being nice and trying to have a conversation with these people. If it’s a fight they want, then in defense of myself and of my space, and of those I love, it is a fight they are going to get. I’m done backing down to keep the peace. As I was placing the bags in the car, I can hear yelling in front of Ralph’s. Same guy, arguing with the manager who was probably asking him to leave the store. The Palm Springs police pulled up and I waited to see if they might need a statement. They didn’t, guy was trespassed and I drove home.

[Piasladic]

14. kudos to you

You did everything right. Thankfully, it hasn't happened to me, but I'm thinking about how I'd handle it.

[louslobbs]

15. I'm a pretty laid back guy.....

I hate fighting, but I’ve decided that when kindness fails, then I will become more forceful. Especially since this person was unmasked and that pissed me off. I usually avoid confrontation, but with this virus being what it is, I don’t want my space invaded.

[Traildogbob]

26. 6 feet back or 6 feet under.

I am pro choice. Been listening to their threats since Obama took office first time. Got some shit built up. Bring it assholes. Bring Trump with you, and all his sons. Please. I will leave Baron out of this, unless he comes talking Trump type shit. Fuck em all. Oh, and have Jarod tag along.

[louslobbs]

46. Exactly....I'm with you, unlike some Internet morons who refer

to “Internet tough guys.” What part of tough guy did I exhibit when I asked this guy to please step back? All of a sudden we’re not supposed to get tough to protect our space after asking nicely? What should I have done? Asked if he could “pretty please” not stand so close, unmasked? I’m done, just like you and just like many more like us. You push……I push back. I guess my husband and I were tough guys when we helped raise over $92,000 through GOFUNDME for Keith Walker a few months back when wouldn’t back down to threats from people on the Internet to give him the money directly and not put the funds into a trust. I’m sick and tired of their bullshit threats. I’m done….we’re done.

[Traildogbob]

49. 100 percent

With you. These terrorists need to be treated as you would a rabid dog. Every time I see the mouth foaming assholes storming the Capital, I think they all should have been treated as the terrorists they are. I served under oath to fight enemy both abroad and within. We have an enemy within. Now not only for our democracy and election security, but for our lives in a pandemic from the brain starved zombies created by Fox, GQP, and now the most evil, Trump. Seeing These endless videos of Karen’s and the mob at Tennessee school board, makes my rage deep and real. Didn’t the GQP and Trump make it legal to drive over protesters blocking traffic. I wish that doctor would have plowed over the two big mouths threatening his life. For what, just telling what he is seeing happen to kids in the hospital. I would rather die fighting to save the country I served for than live under a Trump MAGA dictatorship. Those MAGA idiots will not be saved by his tyranny. Maybe then they will take those guns to end mini Hitler and his puppets when the hurt affects them. Or maybe we all lose to the virus, because of stooooopid and Fox, OAN and Newsmax.
No F’s left here, I will offer a choice before I take action to protect myself. Once!!! Can’t imagine how furious your husband is.

[louslobbs]

52. The trump cult are really tough when they are in groups

when they outnumber. They also like to intimidate women and older people. I usually never have a problem because I’m a pretty well built guy. I’m 6’1 189lbs, that alone seems to be a deterrent to most. I’m an in shape, French Canadian/Italian white guy originally from New York. I’m not a tough guy, I’m a nice guy who will get tough if pushed. I have found that as of late, people seem to have shorter tempers. I venture out once every seven or so days to pick up groceries. I double mask, distance, and usually with tunnel vision, get what I need, check out and get home. We are fortunate and are still working from home. This encounter was one of the first I have had like this, in like 20 years. That piece of shit trump has emboldened the enemy within. Sad, but that’s how I now see them. So I’m in your side because you are willing to actually fight this scourge. They don’t even get what they are awakening here I don’t think. This sleeping giant of people who are fed up and not going to take it anymore. I’m done…we’re done. I’d choose you to fight the fascists on team Democracy…..just don’t act too tough….some might not like it.

[Traildogbob]

55. Stand tall

Glad to be on your team. Some times you just have to draw a line. I would step up for anyone else being abused as well. Thanks for your post. Cheers. A life time of extreme physical activities, marathons, bike racing, XC skiing and non stop mountain adventuring off trails, 8 years military trained. Why waste it? But aware these mad dogs could be armed. Not sure how or if we can fix it. Covid may do it. Never look for trouble, never start anything. Like you, get there get out get home, get back into woods without people. Trumpism must be curb stomped. Maybe the next mutation will target those cheap red hats. Easy targets.

[Evolve Dammit]

37. Just standing your ground. THEY should understand that. Good job. You warned him.

[louslobbs]

47. I did and I asked if he could PLEASE

Step back…..if they don’t like the word please, how about next time if it happens, I just say get the fuck out of my fucking face you fucking maskless piece of shit….how about that? Maybe I should have started with that. Then maybe I wouldn’t have had to ask twice….how’s that for a tough guy?

[Evolve Dammit]

51. Sometimes you have to be blunt/rude/profane/crass. It doesn't come natural, but sadly I'm learning.

[louslobbs]

53. Same here, I don't really like this side of me

but I do appreciate that it’s here. With me, they will have a fight on their hands….if that makes me tough, so be it.

[Treefrog]

4. Because violence solves everything.

Got it.

[Atticus]

5. Does being a punching bag for an idiot solve anything? nt

[louslobbs]

8. Wow, that's what you got from reading this post?

Got it.

[LanternWaste]

28. Besides yourself, who else is arguing that premise

No one.

Got it?

[electric_blue68]

58. Er.. they never said that. They're not starting anything but ...

considering that at certain points to push back if pushed too far by Magats in a particular situation.

[USALiberal]

9. Internet tough guys. Nt

[louslobbs]

10. Internet

BIG MOUTH YOU!

[Treefrog]

11. Exactly.

This.

[Atticus]

12. You have no idea. nt

[USALiberal]

62. No idea about how tough you are???

[LanternWaste]

29. Any additional insight or just t-shirt slogans...? Nt, Part ii

[USALiberal]

31. Fix and credit your text!

[LakeArenal]

13. They seem to like to belly up to women and spit shout at them.

Big ole white dudes.

[2naSalit]

36. When someone pulls that crap at me...

I quickly consider whether they need to hit the floor in pain or not, simple as that. They touch me or spit on me, they make the decision for me.

[Mariana]

43. Women, old people and teenagers.

You never, ever see one of these assholes harass someone his own size.

[LakeArenal]

44. Yep

[smirkymonkey]

50. NEVER!

They are the ultimate cowards. Just once, I would like to see some guy who is bigger and stronger than they are give them the ass-kicking of their life and teach them a lesson.

[halfulglas]

16. I might start carrying my key chain pepper spray.

My kids gave it to me years ago when I moved to my present home alone. I've never used it and stopped carrying it. But I noticed they are for sale on many sites. A little about 4 inch cylinder of something with a thing to fit on your keychain. So if this is clogged or whatever for never ever being used. I may start carrying it attached to my purse in case I feel threatened. 'Cause I'm not about to hit anyone.

[louslobbs]

18. SABRE

Makes a maximum strength red pepper gel with UV marking dye The gel is supposed to be safer as it was manufactured to affect only the target. The small canister contains 25 bursts and can attach to your keychain. This product is a severe eye, skin, and respiratory irritant. These items do have expiration dates, so you might want to purchase a new item. I hope you never have to use it. It’s a defense item, not an attack item like trumpers use it…..oh, and they also use bear spray on police too……a much more severe irritant that can cause serious respiratory and eye injury.

[halfulglas]

24. Thanks. I'll opt for the one that hits only its target if I need to buy more.

I'll feel more secure knowing I have something. I notice the antimasker bullies don't respect other's personal space, and seem to especially invade women's even more than a man's, and even when they aren't threatening, they like to get close enough so you can see their smirk.

[2naSalit]

39. That's what is used in our county jail.

[halfulglas]

57. Thanks again. It's always good to have a recommendation.

I ended up getting one for myself but also for each of my 2 teenage granddaughters.

[Leith]

17. I'm not tough and I can't fight

I am just a chubby almost-little-old-lady so fisticuffs is out.

What I can do is shout. And I mean loud - I could be heard over an orchestra on stage. I've decided that shouting "security!" and "help!" at the top of my lungs while I back away slowly so the store's cameras will show that I do whatever possible to avoid violence is the best thing for me to do.

[louslobbs]

19. You do whatever you have to.

To protect yourself, defend yourself and get away from the threat…yelling really does help. It’s sad that we are now being forced to prepare for these things, but better prepared than caught off guard.

[Leith]

20. I learned a long time ago

that I don't care if people look at me. So, let's make it to my advantage.

[ShazzieB]

33. I'm with you, Leith!

I am a chubby little old lady myself (no "almost," I'm definitely there now) and fisticuffs would do me absolutely no good. I just wouldn't be able to do enough damage to make it worthwhile. So I really like the idea of shouting. I'm very good at making lots of noise. I was a theater geek in college, we did not have mics back then, and I definitely know how to PROJECT!

If some jerk actually starts hitting me, I'm not going to hit back. I will drop to the floor and curl up in the fetal position, face down, covering the back of my head with my arms. Screaming my head off the whole time!

[Atticus]

41. You may know this, but there are SUPER LOUD (130 decibels!) emergency alarms that fit on

your keychain. They are rechargeable, the alarm sounds for an up to an hour and some cost less than $10.

I found them when shopping for my granddaughter.

[Piasladic]

60. really good idea

I have lousy aim, so an alarm is just what I need.

[bucolic_frolic]

21. That's a sad point to reach

Be sure to verbalize to the greatest extent possible. And don't get in over your head.

[Soxderrube]

22. You will be surprised

When you stand up to them they usually back down, they are so use to the left backing down that their cowardice shows when you scream back at them. But be prepared for some that will not run, just treat them like the bullies they are and face them.

[louslobbs]

48. Exactly...you might not come out on top

Just make them remember they were in a fight that they started. I’m done being a pacifist…DONE. These loons on the right, fascist authoritarians always try to intimidate and use force. I will not ever be intimidated.

[LuckyCharms]

23. I'm certainly with you in spirit, but not in reality.

Here's the thing:

I don't let anyone intimidate me. Ever. I don't care who it is. Someone gives me shit, I give it back triple. I can back people away with words 99.99% of the time.

If someone threatened me physically, I have faith that I could back them down without touching them.

That being said, I protect myself in public by keeping my head on a swivel, knowing my surroundings, and playing out possible problems.. This usually keeps me out of situations where I would be forced to defend myself. It's an ounce of prevention.

I had a situation last week at Home Depot. Trumper gave me some shit, so I gave him some shit back. BUT...before I said a word back to him, I sized him up quickly. "No coat, T shirt, Jeans, can't see anything bulging from his pockets, he's not carrying, probably does not have a knife, no rings, taller than me but looks weak, no scars, looks soft etc". It was only after I did this mental exercise that I decided to embarrass him. It worked, he left.

If the situation had been different...let's say that there had been a real threat of physical harm, my first thought would be to turn and run if that was an option. Yes, actually run and get away from the guy.

Because if some guy grabs me, or punches me, and I am unable to run at that point, now I'm forced to protect myself. If I protect myself, I will try to kill him or knock him out cold. If things reach this point, there are several possible outcomes, and none of them are good.

1) I get my ass kicked.
2) I get stabbed to death.
3) I kill a guy I don't know.
4) I put a guy I don't know in intensive care, or he puts me in intensive care.
5) I get sued even though I am not in the wrong, and have to spend thousands on lawyers.
6) I end up getting prosecuted and sent to prison because it was viewed that I crossed the line of self-defense.

My point is this...I believe that one should do what is necessary to avoid physical altercations at all costs. I'm not afraid of a fight, however, too much can go wrong. Nothing wrong with getting away quickly from a threat. Also, at my age, with my health problems, I wouldn't last in prison,

[Traildogbob]

27. You are correct

All those outcomes are for real, and is it worth destroying your own life for any one of them. And, seems most police will side with them and their story. Like all those cops at the school board hearing parking lot. We are on our own, but I will protect myself when physically attacked. Best to stay out of public, be bland and get back to home to my dogs and hiking. Sooner or later Covid will do this ass kicking. I wonder if they all will have those red hats on the grave stones? They will represent pissing areas. We can write shit on the stones like you see in bar bathrooms.

[Mr.Bill]

25. I live in a small town, and so far everything has been peaceful.

But for the first time in my life I find myself considering what sort of weapon, if any, I may want to start carrying. I am elderly (68) and not a big person. I'm not interested in a physical fight with anyone. Protecting myself and my wife from violence is going to have to involve some sort of weapon. I live in a California county where a carry permit is not difficult to get, but I don't want to go to that extreme.

[PatrickforB]

30. Many of these Trump supportin' Murikans actually WANT civil war.

They are ready to march forth and do battle, tear apart our union.

I mean, I think a lot about Hitler and how he and his obscure Nazi party took over Germany, and the parallels are there. If someone comes at your ready to do violence to you, then wringing your hands and lamenting their wrong isn't going to do you any good.

Sometimes, as much as we may dislike it, we must fight for what we know is right. I'm not advocating starting anything, by any means, because I'm an older guy with an ambulatory disability and some other fun health issues you get after age 60. BUT, if someone attacks me, I'm darned sure going to fight back.

So, as uncomfortable as violence, or even its contemplation, is, I have to agree, Atticus. Because some things are worth fighting for.

[AverageOldGuy]

32. Back in 2016 . . .

BACKGROUND:

I live in a ruby-red rural Virginia county. We have no garbage or trash pickup so, weekly, I haul my household garbage and recycle stuff to a collection site 15 miles away . . . it's always busy.

I'm an old soldier, two tours in Vietnam, very familiar with weapons, own several; there's a .45 under the front seat of all three of my vehicles.

I'm also captain of local volunteer rescue squad; I carry at all times a squad radio that talks to the sheriff's office dispatchers.

Back in 2016, my old F250 had some Hillary bumper stickers. Well, more than some.

INCIDENT:

One day at the dump, I was tossing trash from my truck into the dumpster. A new pickup pulled up normal space behind me, then started creeping closer and closer -- so close I was afraid he was going to crush me between our bumpers. I finished my dumping and drove over to the recycle place.

The guy followed me, got out of his truck, and started raving about Hillary is a crook, all you Democrats out to be shot, yadda, yadda yadda. Old guy, about my age, short, skinny, close-cropped hair.

I ignored him . . . which must have pissed him off as he moved closer and closer and kept it up.

Finally I asked if he was going to do the shooting. "By God, there's a pistol in my truck, I just might shoot me a Democrat right now."

I pulled out my squad radio, told him if he moved toward his truck, I'm calling dispatch and in one minute half the deputies in the county will pin him to the ground. That set him off, shouting and cursing.

Meanwhile, I had moved to my truck and retrieved my .45, stuck it in my pocket. When he saw it, he ran for his truck, cursing all the way, and left.

I stopped by sheriff's office, gave them his license number. Deputies visited him.

That was five years ago. I see the asshole from time to time -- hardware, grocery, dump, driving here or there. He avoids me, or gives me the finger, or tailgates me.

The .45 is still under my front seat. I've added a short baseball bat, too.

[Oppaloopa]

42. wow great story

[CaptainTruth]

34. I won't start the fight, but if I have to fight for my country I will.

To do otherwise would dishonor the service & sacrifice of all who have fought for our country.

[hadEnuf]

35. Not disgusting at all.

It's about damn time we started defending ourselves against these viscous fascist bastards. It's the only thing they understand.

As much as we may not like it, might is the only thing that makes right with this bunch.

[Saboburns]

38. A bully will bully you as long as you let them.

And these people are classic bullies.

My choice is that I would rather engage in violence than be bullied. You may disagree, and that's fine. You will get no gruff from me. But I also believe that the main reason why they continue to escalate their actions is because they face no, or very little, consequences for their actions.

And I think that until they face consequences for their bullying, things will continue to escalate and get worse.

[Evolve Dammit]

40. The gloves are coming off. THEY have earned it. Thanks Atticus.

[Martin Eden]

45. My advice: better to ignore than to escalate or provoke

But if you are attacked, strike hard and fast to disable. A kick in the nuts can be very effective.

[ecstatic]

54. I hear ya. I'm petite so my strategy is to avoid

confrontation if possible. No bumper stickers, although I don't need one because refuqs will automatically (and correctly) assume that I'm a Democrat. I saw a post in this thread about using pepper spray and for a second I considered it, but too many people are armed here. Luckily most of my business is conducted in blue areas.

[Irish_Dem]

56. I myself have been contemplating how I will react to someone who attacks me for wearing a mask.

I am a small, older, peace loving female. And normally I would just ignore such things.
But I am thinking now I will fight back.

[nolabear]

59. This is a very bad idea. You're setting yourself up for trouble.

You cannot assault someone without repercussion. You might get hurt, arrested, killed, and you might harm another person. None of these are good things. Please try to find another way.

[Atticus]

61. My OP says I will defend myself, not "assault" someone! nt

[nolabear]

63. I know that's your intent but it doesn't always go that way.

That kind of thing is very scary. Mind you I’m not saying you should let anyone harm you but a physical altercation of any kind is fraught. Just be careful.