I don't usually linger after Rachel to watch Lawrence O'Donnell, but tonight he was on a tear...

[Hekate]

… about people who say this exit is worse than Vietnam. A couple of unnamed military sources in Afghanistan, who he points out could not even have been born yet when Saigon fell, and Sasse, who he pointed out would have been 3 years old at the time.

I mean he was on a rampage. “The entire 20 year American death toll is equivalent to one month’s carnage in Vietnam.” Draft cards in every boy’s pocket from the age of 18, reminding them and their parents that they could be next. The death of his cousin, who left West Point for Nam and never came home. The civilians killed, the half-American babies left behind. The people who helped us left behind. The chaos.

Loss and exit and how we don’t know how to do that because “they don’t teach you that at West Point” and how the only place there’s a graceful no-chaos withdrawal is in a Hollywood movie.

Wow! He brought back all my young-adult memories from that era.

[elleng]

1. I wouldn't miss either of them.

[lucca18]

2. I always look forward to his opening analysis.

He is actually my favorite on MSNBC.

[Hekate]

3. Then you must have seen this one. I was impressed as all get out. nt

[Dream Girl]

6. Me too.

He calms me down.

[Treefrog]

13. He's good.

I agree.

[madaboutharry]

4. Cable news was a caldron of angst today.

Afghanistan was a mess from the very beginning. We were always going to lose this war. It morphed into a futile exercise in nation building. Accepting failure and ending it was always going to be hard. It was never going to be a Hollywood ending.

I think one of the big problems is that people no longer have an understanding of history. So they fill in the blanks with their own imagination.

[grumpyduck]

7. So totally absolutely true.

No understanding of history. Too damn lazy.

[Treefrog]

31. So we keep repeating it.

[CharleyDog]

5. Lawrence O'Donnell is always SO good. He is empathetic, smart, experienced in the Senate,

and calm. Sometimes Rachel gets very emotional (and gets me more upset) and Lawrence is a good complement to that tone, he is calm and brings a different but needed point of view. He has been excellent with the war tragedy in Afghanistan. I felt much better after listening to him last night and tonight. And did I say he is very empathetic, caring, and considerate to everyone

[Mr.Bill]

17. He know first-hand the inner workings

of Congress better than any journalist I know of.

[sop]

8. His two panel guests were extremely informative.

They discussed "Vietnam Syndrome," the public's aversion to American overseas military involvements after all the domestic controversy following that debacle. I think that's what the permanent warmongers are most worried about: Americans won't be so easily duped into invading the next country, at least for a while.

[2naSalit]

9. He really did lay it out there...

And his opening guests helped back up that point. It was a good segment.

[Hoyt]

10. Can't really say which exit is the worst. Vietnam was 50 years ago.

Afghanistan is now.

Obviously, we didn’t learn a damn thing about occupying other countries.

[Hekate]

12. Since he was a young adult of draftable age at the time, looks like he remembers it well...

No idea how old you are, but my husband and I lived through the era: high school, college, and far beyond. He joined the Air Force in lieu of being drafted into the Army, and served on the US Mainland, not overseas.

I thought O’Donnell captured it pretty well, with facts and with feeling. It was really a “Lest We Forget” moment.

[Hoyt]

16. Older than O'Donnell. Sometimes old folks get stuck in the old days. This is now.

I’m fine with reminiscing about Vietnam. Be glad to discuss its impact on me and friend’s lives and deaths.

But, this is now.

[Hekate]

23. Gotcha

[lindysalsagal]

11. Good. They're blaming Biden for not running every plane

And tank and communication himself, and for not reading everyone's minds and predicting the future. He's one man and he didn't create this situation.

[Treefrog]

14. No, he didn't.

But heads should roll for the weasels that ill-advised him.

[Hoyt]

18. +1. And those who "executed" the plan, if there was one. Biden knows he's responsible.

[rockfordfile]

28. Actually more Americans are getting that the gop is responsible for putting us there

As for certain people leaving, they should've left last year. There was plenty of time for them to leave.

People leaving or not has nothing to do with President Biden.

[Jon King]

15. I don't blame Biden but our overall government is a mess on this issue.

Rachel's guest said as of today the military at the airport is saying they can't even get barbed wire and other supplies to set up their perimeters. The state department personnel surge promised yesterday to process visas did not come.

The intelligence about the Taliban stunk on ice.

Unfortunately there are a lot of incompetent career bureaucrats in our government, regardless of administration.

[Hoyt]

20. Feel the same. Will continue to vote Democratic, but expect better from my government.

trump would have screwed it up even more. Merely doing less damage than trump, in this case, is not admirable.

Fortunately, reports today seem to be optimistic that improvements are being made.

[mnhtnbb]

30. Remember that Trump hollowed out the State Department

Biden has only had 6 months to begin the job of restaffing State.

[lindysalsagal]

34. Thankyou! He left something like half of the appointments empty for nefarious reasons

[KS Toronado]

19. MSNBC's evening lineup with Rachel, Lawrence, & Brian

are always worth watching, but tonight was really great.

[7wo7rees]

21. I saw it and Lawrence took Sasse to the woodshed and beat him fiercely. !

I think it lasted almost 20 mins and Lawrence was mesmerizing! He nailed it, hard.

[monkeyman1]

22. add up the #'s

add up the number of people that have been in combat zone in congress . than the number in the media . of all them , they have the right to tell us right from wrong !! I spent 67- 70 in the jungle's 87% of my time there ! watching civilians & military from both sides get dead ! us troop's there had a saying -" FTW "- translation-fuck the world, we where 18 in line outfit & didn't know if the Bullitt or mortar round had your name on it ! so do not tell me in your opinion piece what should be done ! media dont have that right - period!

[calimary]

24. Yes indeed! Really took me back.

It was a really good refresher course tonight.

Valuable and illuminating comparisons.
For example:
The death toll from Vietnam over 13 years: 57,939.
The death toll from Afghanistan over 20 years: 2,448.

And that was just one set of statistics. Afghanistan was and is a grim story, but it’s NOT worse than Vietnam.

As usual, just more lies and distortions from the GOP.

[rockfordfile]

29. I think what makes it worse to a degree is it happen again.

People were warning about getting stuck in that country. Based on bs and lies. To lose 2,448 knowing it's bs is unacceptable. All of the corruption. It's the gop fault for this and they know it. The same goes for certain media back then who push to go Afghanistan.

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Here's the video for those who missed it:

Lawrence: ‘Everything About Vietnam Was Much Worse Than What Has Happened In Afghanistan’ - The Last Word - MSNBC
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017675107

[Hekate]

26. Thank you Rhiannon. It's powerful & worth a look for those who missed it

[Rhiannon12866]

27. Lawrence is just old enough to remember and he worked with those who were there then

You're right, this was a powerful report and those in Congress who were too young to remember need the lesson.

[lindysalsagal]

35. k & r for later. Thanks

[malaise]

32. I often miss him because I fall asleep but he's always

good. Watched the full program last night because I knew I wasn't walking this morning.
Rachel and Lawrence are the best two on M$NBComcast.

[malaise]

33. I often miss him because I fall asleep but he's always

good. Watched the full program last night because I knew I wasn't walking this morning.
Rachel and Lawrence are the best two on M$NBComcast.

[Texaswitchy]

36. The Vietnam War was my childhood.

Two brothers over there.

My mother a was wreck when they over there.

The draft.

[Hekate]

37. When we went to an all-volunteer Army, strangely enough I did not rejoice...

I thought to myself that the reason we finally got out of Vietnam was the social unrest brought about by the anguish of knowing that every mother’s son could be sent to that useless bloody war, and the rage at knowing that if you were male it could be you, personally.

I thought to myself — not enough citizens are going to have skin in the game now, all for the sake of suppressing social unrest. And sure enough, the percentage who join and serve is a minuscule subset. Easy to use as a patriotic prop for photo ops. Easy to forget when the GOP politicians stop blathering.

Thank gods for Joe.

[Texaswitchy]

38. I have been born a male I would have just missed the draft.

The draft started at 19 and then before that there was the lottery.

The last draft call was December 1973.

Both my brothers enlisted in the Navy.

Beat the draft.

Both went to Vietnam still.

One was on a river patrol boat and the other a medic with the Marines.

[Lemonwurst]

39. We want to invite him to dinner

Lawrence O’Donnell is one of the best on MSNBC. Calm, reasoned, and with enough experience to keep things in perspective.

If he’d join us, we’d serve New Bedford scallops, since we’re in southern MA.