"...it's like a mid-life crisis for a lot of white males for whom they want it to be 1969 again."

[marmar]

Conservative brilliantly explains what is wrong with angry middle-aged white men

Tom Boggioni
August 19, 2021


During an appearance on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," conservative commentator and U.S. Naval War College professor Tom Nichols went into an extended explanation about the rising tide of angry middle-aged white men that helped fuel the rise of Donald Trump and why their reasoning is dead wrong.

Promoting his book, "Our Own Worst Enemy: The Assault from Within of our Modern Democracy," Nichols explained that they are wallowing in "poisonous nostalgia" because they believe the world is coming apart before their eyes.

"We want to believe things are not our fault and things are so terrible and we would do better and wouldn't have to be so angry if things weren't so awful all the time," he told host Joe Scarborough. "Every age has its advantages and disadvantages. but the notion that somehow in 2021 -- when we're living longer, healthier, the world is mostly at peace, whether people want to believe that or not, it's true -- people want to believe this is the worst time ever. and it's a poisonous nostalgia that looks back and there's no way a democratic government can keep up with that unless they can invent a time machine."

....(snip)....

MSNBC contributor Katty Kay asked, "As we know the country is becoming less white, probably faster than we realized. To what extent is that feeding this sense of nostalgia amongst certain groups of the population? Particularly amongst white men who benefitted when it was white men who were running the show unquestionably? Is it overly simplistic to say that's driving some of the people out there saying things aren't as good for me as they used to be?"

"No," Nichols replied, "I think that's directly a cause of a lot of this. And, you know, again, there are some of these stories from my own hometown where people that I grew up with who are now prosperous. I had a friend who, you know, working-class guy I went to school with since we were small children, spends his weekends on his boat, and he says everything is changed, it's awful."

"What he means is the street we grew up on, we had a neighborhood barber, candy store and diner, and one of them is an antique shop now, another is a Spanish storefront church, and the library is closed," he elaborated. "He just wants it to be -- it's like a mid-life crisis for a lot of white males for whom they want it to be 1969 again. I think that the problem of becoming a minority is really anxiety-producing for a lot of them. But again, the answer to that is more democracy, not some kind of illiberal backlash and trying to turn the clock back by force. But they've been told by politicians and political entrepreneurs that with just enough willpower and rage and anger and resentment they can turn the hands of time back and, you know, make it 1965 again." ..............(more)

https://www.rawstory.com/angry-white-men-trump/

[pwb]

1. Conservative and brilliantly do not compute.

.

[Sympthsical]

2. Middle aged white males weren't alive in 1969.

That was 52 years ago.

This response is apropos of nothing. I know the author's point. Not disputing it.

It's just something funny I've noticed in online writing over time. It's as if the years slipped away, and people don't immediately realize that their cultural or chronological references are much longer ago than they think.

The people who are alive and old enough to really know what society was like in 1969 are senior citizens now. If you were 18 that year, you're hitting 70 now.

But hearkening back to a mythical past that once existed. Yeah, that's a thing for those who resist change and refuse to acknowledge the pluralistic society is here, and it's not going to reverse.

[MichMan]

4. You think someone born in 1962 is a senior citizen at 59 yrs of age?

People clearly know what society was like even when they were young.

[Sympthsical]

6. I don't think a lot of 7 year olds . . .

Were hyper aware of the socioeconomic condition of the nation in 1969.

I used 18 to signify adulthood and when people can be reasonably expected to have a handle on the world they live in from a political and economic perspective.

[Biophilic]

26. No, but they all saw the same TV shows that depicted how their world was suppose to be.

True awareness and memory of the way things "were" are not the same thing. I grew up in the 50s and 60s. I didn't have a clue what was really happening in my world at the time, but I sure remember those TV shows. I wanted what they showed just like I was suppose to.

[A HERETIC I AM]

62. Bingo!

Every street was supposed to look like the one from "Leave it to Beaver" or any of the other dozens of shows that only had a black person in it when it was integral to the storyline. Otherwise, the whole world was white people, dad worked 9 to 5, mom wore dresses and pearls and stayed home all day, every day and the worst person you ever knew was a guy like Eddie Haskell.

It's strange to me because I was born in 1959, so all that is relevant to my time as well.

But I suppose I was a bit lucky, in that my dad worked for the government and we traveled overseas a bit when I was young.

I saw at an early age how folks in other cultures lived so my perspective was broadened quite a bit by the time I became a teenager. And I remember the summer of 1968 quite clearly. The nostalgia for those days is fine if you lived in quiet suburbia back then. Not so much if you were a black person living in the south or the inner city.

[NickB79]

61. TV in the 70's and 80's was a lot of reruns from the 60's

I grew up watching the hit shows from the decade before I was born. And what you see on TV as a kid can make just as much of an impact as what you see in real life.

[maxsolomon]

8. 3 ages:

Youth: 0 to 30
Middle Age: 30 to 60
Old Age: 60 to 90

Barely anyone lives past 90.

[Sympthsical]

24. I prefer ageless

Like Diane Lane in a cosmetics commercial.

[ChazInAz]

34. Ambrose Bierce put it nicely.

Yesterday: (Noun) The infancy of youth, the youth of maturity, the entire past of age, which comes overnight and is devastating.

[Mr. Evil]

53. Man, that sure hit the nail on the head.

[cinematicdiversions]

27. Thank You. Good Lord.

1984 would be a more realistic year for middle aged males to think about. They are solidly Gen x. (Much as millennials are now hitting thier forties.)

[True Blue American]

37. The anger has been carried over

For a couple of generations as each matured. From those of the late 60’ to now.

[MineralMan]

3. People who are nostalgic about 1969 are not at mid-life age.

I loved 1969. I'm 76 years old. I passed my mid-life crisis time two decades ago.

[George II]

5. I think those following some recent so-called "movements" of the '80s, '90s, etc......

...are nostalgic about what they learned in school or people who experienced 1969 talk about.

I've heard it a number of times, like "I wish I was around in the '60s, that looked like fun" or some such comments.

[MineralMan]

10. Still, people who were adults in 1969 are seniors now.

It was an interesting time, but we're nowhere near the circumstances that were in place then. No computer. No cell phones, no Internet. It was still a non-techno period of our history. Some of us back then were working on what was to come, but it sure wasn't here yet.

That was my generation. We already had our mid-life crises.

[George II]

15. True. I was 21 at the time and more interested in my classes than doing all the things....

....people are reminiscent about. Also worried about the draft, too.

I do remember, though, that I drove out to Michigan with a girlfriend in August and on the way back to NYC we drove right past the Woodstock event, which was actually in Bethel, not Woodstock. While we were away the Mets started their "amazin' " ride to 1st place on their way to the league championship and ultimately the World Series.

We were all so innocent back then.

[MineralMan]

41. In 1969, I was 24 years old, and just finishing up my USAF enlistment.

I went back to finish college after dropping out in my sophomore year. I was heavily involved in anti-war activism at the time and until the Vietnam War ended.

[True Blue American]

39. Keep in mind memories fade as you get older. What you

Remember as fabulous really wasn’t.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

52. and the civil rights act of 1964. he refers to 1965 in his theory too.

White, racist, middle-aged, angry men don't need an exact year to wish for. They just want to go back to where there there was no affirmative action/giving aid to those they naturally discriminate against.

[MichMan]

9. People aren't nostalgic about growing up ?

I was 10 and l am nostalgic over Scouting, Moon Landing, Detroit Tigers winning the 1968 World Series, watching Laugh In on TV and all sorts of things

[LanternWaste]

66. Sigh

"Everyone is a prisoner of his own experiences. No one can eliminate prejudices — just recognize them."

Ed Murrow.


Never too late...

[DonCoquixote]

7. it's fiunny as a lot of these people "hate" the 60's and 70's

Yet they love trotting out the culture, be it rock and roll or movies, because it is when WHITE DUDES were in charge Off course, they all act like Woodstock was great, but they ignore the fact that THEY killed the idealism of the sixties , turned it into the '70s And they wonder why gen x, the millennials, and Gen z make music that is a lot more depressing than some of the pablum they made. There is a reason a lot of '60s musicians like Pete Townsend are bitter as hell.

[GopherGal]

19. When Was America Great?

That's what I always wanted to ask anyone who wears a "Make American Great Again" hat.

Were we great when we had slaves and counted them as 3/5 of a person?
Were we great when we had Jim Crow?
Were we great when we had race riots?
Were we great when women couldn't get a credit card without a male co-signer?
Were we great when women couldn't vote?
Were we great when women could be fired for getting pregnant?
Were we great when the Cuyahoga River caught on fire?

Can you give me a year exactly?

I think the "Great Again" slogan is intentionally hazy on this point so that people can't realistically assess the shortcomings of whatever delusions the hearers harbor. I think it boils down to a hazy nostalgia for "That time when I was blissfully ignorant of the injustices borne by people other than me."

[oldsoftie]

44. America was & still IS great. Thats why millions try to come here every year.

Every year, without fail. Millions. From all over the world. Because we're perfect? Certainly not. We can & MUST work for continued improvement. But they come because they see that they have a CHANCE.

[Ligyron]

56. I it was economic opportunity as much as anything. nt

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

71. In 1969, I still had some hope for peace, love, democracy, and equality.

And then Reagan came along in 1980 and pissed all over my beautiful dreams.

[Paladin]

11. I was in college in 1969. I remember the year with pleasure.

But then, I had a high draft number.

[George II]

16. I was too, but mine was 116.

[Paladin]

21. People tend to forget the importance of those little numbers to guys, in '69. (nt)

[Rebl2]

31. Well

lucky you

[Paladin]

35. That's how I feel about it, to this very day. Damn lucky. (nt)

[moonscape]

36. I was a univ student and remember vividly

the draft numbers being called out on TV. My bf and I were in a crowded bar, and there were gasps from those whose birthdays pulled a low number. Was so wrenching.

[Paladin]

38. I'll never forget that night.

I had school friends who got numbers like 4 or 8; they withdrew from the university the next day and faced the inevitable. Both of them made it home safe.

[Dave in VA]

42. Draft Lottery Numbers

Mine was 178.

If you're interested here is a chart with birthdays and lottery numbers.

https://www.randomservices.org/random/data/Draft.html

I remember friends who had very low lottery numbers called and it was like getting a death sentence. Very traumatic and emotional times.

[oldsoftie]

46. Thanks for that. I always wondered what mine would've been if i'd been old enough;

Mine would've been 178. My friend who had a birthday ONE day later than me; ONE. Wow..

[VGNonly]

47. I never had to register.

Between March 29 1957 until Dec 31 1959, there was no draft. I was born autumn 57.

[griffi94]

12. I'm very familiar with this group.

Tom Nichols is correct. However, he left out a few crucial ingredients.
Part of it is "toxic nostalgia". But, another part is the narcissistic tendencies in older white males.
They were taught that whatever they think and say is important, or at least worthy of real consideration. They expect to be given equal consideration even when they say some stupid, untrue, easily checkable thing.

I would also suggest that a lot of them are angry because they didn't get the life they felt like they deserve. Many worked at a job
all of their lives and now struggle in retirement. But, even the ones who don't struggle financially seem angry.
I believe that's because of the victim mentality which is, at least partially, fueled by the narcissism. Anybody here ever heard an older conservative say how hard they worked? How nobody ever gave them anything? How nobody wants to do a good job anymore?
Every Old Pissed-Off White Guy that I've ever known has this as a bedrock of their belief system. For these guys, other humans only exist to make their lives harder and to prevent them from doing a good job.

And you can't discount their willingness to be lied to and manipulated. They know Fox News is bullshit. They don't care. They enjoy being angry. It lends validity to their grievances. "I wouldn't be so damn mad if welfare queens didn't use their snap-cards on cruise ships".

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

13. Good analysis.

[Sherman A1]

17. Horse Hockey

It is about economics, nothing more. The rest is what has been used to divide various groups so that the 1% can laugh all the way to the bank.

[griffi94]

18. I agree with you that the bottom line is economics.

The GOP figured out in the late 1970s that their economic policies were non-starters for most middle-class people.
The only way to get them to vote against their own interests is to get them angry enough that they're willing to die slowly as
long as the other side dies first. We see that now with their "Own Libs" mentality.

[Texaswitchy]

20. I was in Jr. high school.

I am 67.

[Retrograde]

22. 1969? Try 1959

or earlier. By 1969 the first Civil Rights acts with teeth had been passed, and women were starting to get uppity about their rights. And there were massive protests and demonstrations, which ultimately drove LBJ out of office. I was a senior in high school in 1969, and I remember it well.

I think 1959 - at least the version of 1959 as shown in Leave it to Beaver and similar shows- is more what they want: a homogenized, suburban White world where everyone knew their place and kept in it, and all problems were solved by the father figure.

[Jimbo S]

55. This

I've referred to the previous administration as MA1959A.

Your reference to bland television that back then never mentioned the social injustices et al.

[JI7]

64. or 1859

[Texaswitchy]

23. It was a country ran by white males.

For white males.

That is what they miss.

[blogslug]

25. Tom Nichols is 60 years old

I too am that age and I understand exactly what he is saying.

I will leave here a quote from a baby. 50 yr-old John Hodgman:

“...normally I consider nostalgia to be a toxic impulse. It is the twinned, yearning delusion that (a) the past was better (it wasn´t) and (b) it can be recaptured (it can´t) that leads at best to bad art, movie versions of old TV shows, and sad dads watching Fox news. At worst it leads to revisionist, extremist politics, fundamentalist terrorism, and the victory-in Appalachia in particular-of a narcissist Manhattan cartoon maybe-millionaire and cramped-up city creep who, if he ever did go up to Rocky Top in real life, would never come down again.”

― John Hodgman, Vacationland: True Stories from Painful Beaches

[ashredux]

28. 1969? Hell...I was worried about the damn draft !,,

[dlk]

29. These are the same men who continue to insist the election was stolen

On some level they understand it wasn’t but they are still smarting over what the loss represents to white, make supremacy. Since they are accustomed to getting their way, they refuse to take no for an answer.

[Rebl2]

32. Think about

it. When Gore lost we were very unhappy for a very long time. At least we weren’t violent nor did we try to overthrow the government.

[dlk]

50. Two very different types of people

The grownups and the disgruntled adolescents.

[Rebl2]

51. Very true!

[Jon King]

30. The couples in their 70s-80s, women walks behind the husband.

Down here in Florida, tons of elderly couples so large sample size.

Many from the midwest, the men hobble out of the diner towards the car....the wives walk 5-10 steps behind. Ahhh, that is the good old days they long for.

[malthaussen]

33. If he thinks we're living "longer and healthier" in 2021, he hasn't seen the statistics. n/t

[leftstreet]

45. +1

[Mr.Bill]

40. If I thought the world was falling apart

I wouldn't think the solution was to vote for a con artist that has failed at everything he has ever tried to do.

[struggle4progress]

43. I remember assassinations in 1968, the moon landing in 1969, and Kent State in 1970

I remember the Cuban missile crisis, and the possibility of nuclear war always seemed real. People began to pay attention to environmental issues for a while, too, but then interest faded away. For me, that era was a roller-coaster ride. I wouldn't go back for love or money.

[AllaN01Bear]

48. i was still a child in 1969.

[Demovictory9]

60. Me too.but i.remember.the racism and sexism

[bucolic_frolic]

49. Standard of living falls as wages stagnate, yet there are more and more essentials to buy

Workers are losing the technology race. 50 years ago there were no cable tv, cell phone, Netflix bills, cars were cheaper relative to wages, few people had credit cards, houses were modest investments. One of the great milestones in life was paying off the mortgage. Now you just borrow all you can, and max out the credit cards to fill the space, and buy all the goodies, and go to DisneyWorld every summer. Rich people win when the economy prospers, poor working class gain ground in recessions when the cost of living falls, if they're not over-leveraged, which was not the case in the Great Recession. We haven't had a natural, return-to-normal recession since 1973-75.

I think these pundits are way off. It's not nostalgia, these groups can't spell nostalgia, but they sure do know they're getting squeezed.

[ffr]

54. I see much of that is true with TFG-humpers, but it goes far deeper

Their logic is flawed to the point that I see a direct link between their traditional values and their exposure to lead and aluminum oxide.

By and large, they're all classic car buffs, love NRA guns, weapons, frequently hunt, and or are plumbers by trade. Classic cars use tetra-ethyl lead, gun ammo is made from lead and disperses as lead aerosols during firing, and plumbers are constantly exposed to lead in their trade. It's not a stretch to reach the conclusion that their brains are broken. There is no cure for lead poisoning!

[lindysalsagal]

57. My take is older men identified with their job, and many had rough times trying to earn a paycheck

They didn't ever "make it" economically, and now they're too old to catch up. Living standards are teetering if not dropping. They don't have a way to socialize with peers (men can stink at that, anyway.) They're far too dependent on the women in their lives instead of the other way around. Basically, they're emasculated, in the John Wayne sense of toxic masculinity.

Getting older is frightening, especially when you didn't put away enough money or buy a long term care policy, or if your health is failing. They tried to grab a little bit of the hollywood male image with a motor cycle or a boat, but in old age that fails, if you ever felt you had it to begin with.

Getting old on the sofa, watching the grand kids just isn't cutting it for these guys. They're lost and can't even find a way to explain it.

[Initech]

58. I know a lot of these people.

Hell half my neighborhood is upper middle aged white males who spend way more time watching Fox News than they probably should, and they are all angry because that's what TV and radio tells them to do.

[traitorsgalore]

59. 40 years of Reaganism destroyed their repuke foo-foo land. They outsourced everything American

They caused it themselves then cry about it, incapable of learning a thing for their entire stupid lives.

[FakeNoose]

65. That's exactly right

The RWNJs screwed all of us - including their own future selves.
It's so obvious to us, so why can't THEY see it?

[radicalleft]

69. Because Raygun and Limpballs

told them to blame the "welfare queen"

[DavidDvorkin]

63. I'd like to be physically the way I was in 1969 again

But nothing else.

[malthaussen]

68. Naw, I was only 13. 1974, though... n/t

[Blue Owl]

67. Dudes gotta quit livin' in the past

Get with the times for fuck’s sake!

[niyad]

70. Sure, it was a great time. The Women's Movement . The Civil Rights Movement.

The Anti-War Movement, The riots in Detroit. The beginnings of the environmental movement. Upheavals and world-changing events, so what the hell is this person yammering on about in his delusional mind?

[Steelrolled]

72. Guess what? In 30 or 40 years, today's youth will be complaining

how things were so much better in "their day".

As David Bowie famously sang

Hey all you rock and rollers
Pretty soon now, you're going to get older