why we lose elections: "Dem says Biden's bungled Afghan exit will cause 'a rise in veteran suicide"

[JohnSJ]

"Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA) on Friday delivered a scathing assessment of President Joe Biden's evacuation of American forces from Afghanistan, and he predicted that it would push many veterans of the war to take their own lives.

Appearing with CNN's Jake Tapper, Moulton slammed the Biden administration for putting themselves in a position in which they have to rely on the Taliban to complete their mission.

"The fact that we're figuring this out on the fly is completely unacceptable," Moulton said.

Moulton, a former Marine Corps officer who served in the Iraq War, told Tapper that he agreed with Biden's decision to pull troops out of Afghanistan, but he said the chaotic nature of the withdrawal and the danger facing Afghans who have worked with Americans has been horrific to watch."

https://www.rawstory.com/seth-moulton-afghanistan/

It is one thing to criticize the withdrawal operation, but to blame him for potential veteran suicides, that haven't happened, is way out of bounds

This is the kind of divisive shit from a DEMOCRAT, where I am ready to say f**k it all

Just because he served in Afghanistan, doesn't give him the wisdom to throw blame on Biden for potential suicides, that may or may not occur

As someone commented:

"You know what causes an upsurge in veteran suicides Seth? Wars!"

[secondwind]

1. I'm glad I haven't donated a nickel to his campaign.

[uponit7771]

2. We lose electrons cause our messaging sucks azz !!! Their lord and savior can kill 500k Americans bu

... we're concerned with peripheral news of the day

[elleng]

3. 'way out of bounds'

[madaboutharry]

4. I'm surprised at this kind of hyperbole coming from him.

I thought he was more disciplined.

[rickyhall]

5. Because Dems attack each other?

[tecelote]

6. "You know what causes an upsurge in veteran suicides Seth? Wars!"

ipso facto Republicans.

[Hoyt]

7. Do you think what Moulton said is true, not just suicide part?

[JohnSJ]

9. Sorry, you can't exclude the suicide part. He said it because he wanted it included. I made it

Clear in the OP, it wasn’t the criticism per sey, but projecting blame on Biden for “possible suicides”, that was the problem

“It is one thing to criticize the withdrawal operation, but to blame him for potential veteran suicides, that haven't happened, is way out of bounds”

As far as what caused such a disaster, I will wait until the full facts come out

[Hoyt]

14. So you project blame on another Democrat.

[JohnSJ]

17. The only thing I am blaming this representative for is his accusation that Biden will be

responsible for suicides that may or may not happen because of this

Let me throw it back at you. Do you agree Moulton about the suicides?

As for waiting until the full report and investigation on this comes out, I make no apologies for that, and that does not imply one way or another that I am blaming another Democrat

[Hoyt]

18. I think if Capitol Police committed suicide after Jan 6, there is no reason

to think some troops might do the same. They did after Vietnam and have been after deployment in Middle East.

Think we need to accept fact that the current situation in Afghanistan ain’t gonna help us at polls, unless some people quit trying to blame everyone but the people who had the last chance to prevent it.

Ever heard of the Last Clear Chance Defense?


At least Moulton had courage to come on. Vast majority of Democrats are lying low on this one.

[Demsrule86]

27. And that is where you are wrong. Foreign policy has never been much of a campaign

issue and this is so murky with blame for Trump and Bush...those who don't like Biden still don't like Biden...but I for one want out of Afghanistan and am pleased that Biden is getting us out period. We never should have gone there in the first place. 20 f'ing years training these military folk and they just give up and lay down the weapons? Are we supposed to stay there forever sacrificing our military folks and spending money that could be better spent elsewhere? I never supported this war. I recognize a political war when I see one.

I am a military brat. I was born at Great Lakes. Both of my parents were in the Navy. I have family serving who have been to Afghanistan and Iraq...also Syria. I am thrilled that we will not risk any more American service folks in the quagmire that is Afghanistan. It was always going to be like this. Joe Biden couldn't have stopped it. No one could.

I am sick of Democrats joining in the chorus of media and republicans tearing leaders like Joe Biden down...they join our enemies in condemning our president. And then they wonder why we don't win more elections and are not able to pass important long-desired legislation. I will never vote for a candidate for president who has shown disloyalty to our elected, our party, or our president in any future primary.

[Hoyt]

30. I'm sick of making excuses for poor execution and calling for media to coverup

our mistakes.

Have you noticed that not one prominent elected Democrat has come forward to say this situation is just hunky dory. I hope some will once things moderate, if they do.

Notice you don’t care for Moulton.

[Demsrule86]

35. You know what I am sick of? Republicans winning elections because we don't support our leaders...

I saw it in 2010 and 2014 with Obama ( he was called a 'used car salesman on this site). I saw it again with the 'but her email crowd'. Our Republic almost didn't survive Trump. 700,000 people are dead. Take it from one who has been around the military for most of her life that war is unpredictable and often messy. I give Joe Biden credit for taking the troops out of harm's way and stopping an endless war that will never be won by anyone. I don't want one of my loved ones to die in this war that should never have happened.

I will add that he is the only president who understands what it is to send one of his children to war. This situation is what it is...when wars end like this...they never end well and that is the truth. I don't blame Joe Biden and those Democrats who do merely help the Republicans get back into power. Afghanistan is no threat to us but Republicans controlling the Senate and the House are a big threat to our Republic.

[Hoyt]

44. Yep GOPers controlling Congress would be awful. Why risk that 15 months

away from an election?

That’s exactly what may be at stake and unless things turn around we’ve written the script for swiftboating our candidates.

I’ll be voting for Biden, no matter what. But this ain’t good.

[leftstreet]

31. And that's the problem

And then they wonder why we don't win more elections and are not able to pass important long-desired legislation.

+1

Mountains of legislation wait on Pelosi's desk that will most likely not see the light of day. Without the political discipline of the GOP, sadly the Democrats will just continue to be great at policy, but unable to put any in practice because they can't seem to do politics

[Demsrule86]

32. If we did not attack our own...we would have more Democrats and get more done...but now

we have Democrats condemning the president and wanting hearings...are you fucking kidding-not much in favor of primaries for sitting Democrats but anyone who supports that needs to get one.

[JohnSJ]

38. As I said, the criticism is one thing, but blaming suicides that haven't occurred on Biden, says

everything about Moulton’s objective, and that is another run for President in 2024. His failed attempt in 2020 didn’t work out for him, and he criticized Biden for his Iraq vote then saying Biden should not have trusted the intelligence

It is so easy after the fact

[Demsrule86]

40. I wouldn't vote for him in a primary period...not now and not ever. I value loyalty.

[JohnSJ]

36. I have no idea why some Capital police committed suicide, and neither do you. Most of the

Democrats are on August recess right now I believe, and I guess the three DEMOCRATIC committees that are setup to investigate what happened don’t count?

As for the suicides from Viet Nam and the gulf wars, both Republican and Democratic administrations, I don’t recall anyone in Congress blaming the current Presidents at the time for causing their suicides

Suicide is a very complex issue, and assigning blame is reckless and irresponsible without knowing the full backgrounds of those who feel so inclined to do it

You want to accept facts, then accept facts, but blaming Biden for potential suicides isn’t a fact, it is speculation.

Moulton wants to speculate potential suicides, I’ll speculate that he plans to run for President again in 2024, and this is the start of his campaign, that didn’t go anywhere in 2020

Like he used Biden’s Iraq vote against him, he wants to add this to the list. His argument about Biden’s Iraq vote was he should not have believed the intelligence

To me it is quite clear what Moulton is doing, and it isn’t courage, but to hopefully further his 2024 presidential ambitions

[Demsrule86]

41. If Biden runs...Moulton has no business running period.

[JohnSJ]

42. I'm speculating

[Hoyt]

45. Well, Biden won't criticize Moulton like TFG did critics. Seems others will do that.

[Demsrule86]

28. No I don't.

[TheProle]

8. One of the huge challenges of representative democracy

is how to preserve principles in the midst of perpetual campaigning.

[reality1]

10. UNFUCKINGBELEIVABLE

this is exactly why we loose elections

[reality1]

11. The nature of war

"The fact that we're figuring this out on the fly is completely unacceptable," Moulton said.

THAT is what you do in war, shit happens and you respond. WE ARE. No one, NO ONE thought the afghan military and government would collapse this fast. They collapsed before Taliban were even assaulting Kabul

[JohnSJ]

12. Gee, and all this time I thought war was predictable

[MacKasey]

13. Trump is responsible for this mess

That should be the message

The media needs to stop wringing their hands with about this or that, till this is over

[BannonsLiver]

15. Agreed.

Republicans always circle the wagons.

[BoomaofBandM]

16. I believe he tried to oust Speaker Pelosi.

I know we have a big tent, but the democratic contrarians don't seem to want to be democrats.
I am all about keeping everyone on their toes, but not if it puts republicans in charge.

[onecaliberal]

19. This is outrageous and dangerous.

I'm beginning to think the vast majority of electeds are out for money and power.

[JoanofArgh]

20. They're out for themselves period.

[onecaliberal]

22. Sadly, yes.

[Baked Potato]

21. What a shitty prediction. He has fucked Veterans

with this bullshit. He should know war is managed chaos. He is not helping Democrats.

[MFM008]

23. because republkicans

have proved they are sooooooooo much better at stuff...............

: sarcasm :

[Demsrule86]

24. Really? He can fuck off.

[JoanofArgh]

25. 3 Senate committees now and a House panel to investigate Biden's withdrawal

1 House panel to investigate a domestic coup

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Demsrule86]

29. There should be no fucking investigation. You play right into the Republican's hands if you do this.

[Hortensis]

26. Well, instead of spreading and augmenting this message, how about we do better?

All each of us can do is be the citizens we want others to be.

[Thrill]

33. You wouldn't have found a Republican to say that shit about Trump

[haele]

34. Then up the funding for VA mental health!

There were going to be suicides if we withdrew, and suicides if we would be staying. Some Vets just can't handle thinking "we lost", as the current news reports are pushing.

Some Vets can't handle hearing when Soldiers and Marines are killed trying to hold bases or just policing. Some have problems thinking about Afghanis they knew or worked with that their own government left behind.

But most Vets, especially the Afghan vets, are aware of the constant corruption that was prevalent on the provence and government level there, and the FUBAR withdrawal was not a surprise to most of us, especially after TFG and Pompustual announced their deal with the Taliban last year.

After the initial confusion, the withdrawal seems to be going as smooth as it could be diplomatically planned.

The Media hype and their breathless disaster-mongering is more likely to cause suicides than the actual withdrawal.

Haele

[crickets]

43. +1000000

[treestar]

37. Why would that follow?

Causes of suicide are surely a lot deeper than something like that.

[JohnSJ]

39. Exactly. Why people commit suicide is a very complex issue

[Mad_Machine76]

47. I wonder what his thinking is on this?

The withdrawal process has been chaotic but what's happened so far that is so traumatizing to the troops?

[Mad_Machine76]

46. This is pretty low and disgusting esp. for a Dem

Some Democrats just don't know when to keep their thoughts to themselves. Like you're saying, investigate the withdrawal but accusing Biden of potentially causing a rash of suicides because of the withdrawal is one of the worst things you can say to another person and highly irresponsible IMHO. In personal relationships, such behavior would be looked at as manipulative and abusive ("If you.......xyz, I'll kill myself). Maybe Seth needs some help to deal with something personal? Geez. Hope he issues a retraction on those particular comments at some point.

[JohnSJ]

48. It was that suicide accusation that I found deplorable. Something like that you just can't

retract