General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFormer soldier Elliott Ackerman on CNN was complaining bitterly about the withdrawal
He said the Biden people should have kept other airports open to get people out and we should have started months ago.
It seems to me we put out notices for people to leave months ago.
I'm not sure how many airports we could have kept open with the 2,500 soldiers we had left there.
But this guy was really upset and complained about all the chaos.
He did and we should all praise our troops for the job they are doing.
But I'm not sure how we were supposed to make Americans leave early if they didn't want to go.
And for several reasons we couldn't really get Afghans out until the end.
viva la
(3,270 posts)No one remembers, I guess, the Marine base bombing in Beirut during the Reagan years. Hundreds killed-- and we left then.
Wars are ugly, and leaving is always hard.
And American civilians should realize they are going to be basically hostages if they don't get out.
Twoflower
(1,019 posts)viva la
(3,270 posts)Sorry you had to go through this.
Twoflower
(1,019 posts)hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)Chris Cuomo had one of the Republican senators who snuck over to Afghanistan on his show tonight. Just my opinion, but I dont think that behavior should be rewarded with air time.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:51 AM - Edit history (1)
the majority of Dems who arent supporting Biden by appearing. The few who have appeared say, I support pulling out, but awful execution.
Even Schiff wasn't backing this mess.
LymphocyteLover
(5,636 posts)his trip was still stupid IMO.
"Schiff waste backing this mess."-- you mean "wasn't"?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)the 2010 midterm. And this is why we can't have nice things. It is not Biden's fault. Donald Trump bragged about how Biden could do nothing in the spring and short of adding more American troops, I don't see any options that would have changed the situation. Personally, I think Biden has done a good job and I support his efforts as for those Democrats you mention, I have but one thing to say...they are not in my district or state so I can't vote against them in a primary. But by God, if they show up in a presidential primary, I won't vote for any of them. And several on your list have presidential aspirations. Loyalty matters.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)war to do otherwise. I want out. That is how I feel. And looking at all the people Biden has gotten out safey, I say he is doing a hell of a job. And history will not be kind to Ackerman and others like him IMHO.
LiberalFighter
(50,787 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,787 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,787 posts)There was no good way to get out of it.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)were released during the chaos.
LiberalFighter
(50,787 posts)happy feet
(864 posts)Changed channel when either the repub or dem got rewarded with air time which was the onlly point of them going. To get their name known.
No credibility with me given their selfish judgement
BannonsLiver
(16,311 posts)They made their name with Desert Storm in 1991. The same breathless ghoul fest was also seen in March 2003 with the Iraq invasion and shock and awe.
JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)CNN while missiles were flying through the air. Their ratings boomed for a while after that. Rumsfeld loved it.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)too many to extract everyone. Biden should have listened to Hilary Clinton in May and consulted her.
As far as leaving early, Im betting a lot of people hunkered down when State Department said the responsibility to get to Kabul was on them. Oh, great, evacuees were supposed to drive on dirt roads controlled by Taliban and other gangs.
Think it is likely we should have controlled at least one other airport, even if we had to put more troops in.
But too late now. Hope it doesnt get uglier.
Whats the deal with being totally out by 9/11? Is that some publicists suggestion?
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)We needed a lot more troops in place to carry out proper evacuations. Not to mention not slowing visas for our allies to a crawl for years, so it wouldnt look like he was letting brown-skinned people into our country.
I can see the point of saying well, Biden should have started much heavier evacuations as soon as he took over, long before we withdrew. Which makes sense, except
with only 2,500 troops on the ground, any heightened evacuation attempts would have sent the signal that we were expecting the government to fall. As a result, the Afghan military would have melted away immediately, the Taliban would have started up their offensive earlier, and
we would have been precisely where we are right now, except in April rather than August.
The simple fact is, the only way we could have evacuated everyone we wanted in the manner we wanted would have been if we had made it a gradual, under-the-radar process over several years, while we still had sufficient military forces to smooth out the process. But we didnt and, despite the buck stops here rhetoric, the responsibility for that failure doesnt lie with the person who took over the role of President after that time had passed.
LymphocyteLover
(5,636 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)I want this useless, bloody war over. Under your scenario, many would have died. I must say, I am not all that sympathetic to those in Afghanistan...including the vacationing students and their families. I am glad they are safe and all, but they had no business going there. Americans in Afghanistan have been repeatedly warned that they need to go and they chose not to. Donald Trump stopped our Aghanistani allies from getting visas, and Biden has done a hell of a job in my opinion. He got thousands out. And in my opinion, the suicide bomber shows why we need to get the hell out of there.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)after people fell off an airplane and our military and State Department got caught flat footed and unprepared.
Hillary Clinton is helping to get some at risk women out. Biden should have listened to her earlier when she told us this was going to happen in May.
Wounded Bear
(58,602 posts)it was a terrorist bombing attack. Terrible, but hardly "all out war."
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)marie999
(3,334 posts)Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)And there was no easy way to do this. What you refuse to understand is our hands were tied after Trump negotiated a very bad deal. But even so, the Taliban was not responsible for the suicided bombing. It was Isis. Basically, everything you talk about here is what happens in war, and usually, it is worse. There is no easy way to do this and Biden is doing a good job IMHO.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)What are they supposed to do if Americans don't listen? I wonder who these Americans are...and if they are mercenaries AKA Blackwater types...let their companies get them out...no need to risk our soldiers for this.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Did same thing in Iraq. If I remember, about 1/3 of Americans killed were contractors doing the same things as active military.
LiberalFighter
(50,787 posts)and made it messier.
I believe what brought it on sooner than expected was the Afghan president leaving.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Catherine Vincent
(34,486 posts)What I did see, he was livid. He was on Lemon right?
LymphocyteLover
(5,636 posts)It's hard to blow off an angry vet who had served there even if his remarks may have been somewhat off-base
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)I served in the military. We need to stop the damned hero worship of military people. They signed up for a job where the basic duty is to have to kill people. That was the reality that was communicated to me by a commander at MEPS on my enlistment date.
There is a reason our military is under civilian control and we need to make sure that stays that way. Constantly going to ex-soldiers asking for their comments is dangerous. We occupied a country for 20 damned years. 20 FUCKING YEARS. And we killed a LOT of people. We had people guilty of murder and war crimes over there. And we want to act like none of that was ever going to brush back on us? I dont wish that these service members died but what the hell do people think was going to happen?
And then this knucklehead makes the case that we should be trying to secure MORE locations? Really???? Call it what it is. Second guessing fir the sake if making a political point. THAT is disgusting and disrespecting the people that died.
We have a saying that we dont negotiate with terrorists. We also shouldnt let them have weight in our political arenas.
A couple people walked up to suicide bomb a bunch of people and we were supposed to defend that. There is very little defense for that. And people going in TV to complain and make statements otherwise are a waste of time.
LymphocyteLover
(5,636 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,787 posts)but they should not be put on a pedestal. At least not all of them. They got paid to do the job. And it was their choice. There are some that should be recognized for their valor. But to put them all in the same bucket is wrong.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)It is this idea that the default fawning over them is normal.
Anyway I dont by any means want to take away how much I value service.
happy feet
(864 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,241 posts)right here in the USA by other Americans than are killed by terrorists.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)Trump's enormous sins were tolerated and excused. And Biden didn't do anything. In the end, I believe the media has hurt their credibility...most of my family won't watch cable news anymore. I sure won't.
PortTack
(32,707 posts)By going on cable and bashing Biden, the Intelligence community and our military!
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)We need to stop this crap.
GoodRaisin
(8,908 posts)with 2500 troops? Seems like a good question.
So I guess this Ackerman guy was in favor of more war in Afghanistan if he thought we should put more troops back in for more airports. And I guess he feels that Trump cut too many troops if thats what he thinks. But did that come up from the host as a question (what troops Trump left Biden)?
LymphocyteLover
(5,636 posts)but basically Lemon let the guy rant
GoodRaisin
(8,908 posts)The entire purpose of that segment was to dishonestly place all the blame on Biden.
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)and this includes the never-Trumpers, suddenly develop a sense of moral outrage over how the Biden administration has shamefully led us to defeat, and the people of Afghanistan to slavery, when I dont recall a single peep of protest from any of them when TFG was paling it up with the Taliban, cutting a deal with them without even including the government of Afghanistan in on it, and then drawing our troop levels down to a point when the past months events would be inevitable. What is more shameful, trying to pull off as massive an evacuation as possible, or inviting the f*cking Taliban to Camp David on the eve of 9/11?
LymphocyteLover
(5,636 posts)and then go after Biden for a mess TFG made... but they are maddening people in general
BannonsLiver
(16,311 posts)David__77
(23,334 posts)
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)Unfortunately the last admin did not get Visa applications processed. It took Biden 5 weeks after taking office to get Republicans in congress to do their job and fix the trouble.
Since early March the Biden admin has set a record for volume productivity in this regard.
Since early March the State dept has been telling Americans and Visa holders to get out. Since Jan there have been 77 ISIS attacks in Afghanistan. It was known the Taliban was already in control of some areas.
There were flights out every day. United airlines went with larger planes but found there were too many empty seats.
The knowledge and opportunity were there. Faulting Biden because people made a choice to wait is kinda Trumpy.
LymphocyteLover
(5,636 posts)LymphocyteLover
(5,636 posts)Ugh. This piece seems like it could be in Newsmax or some rightwing site.