Harry Belafonte Says Obama Lacks "Moral Compass"

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/761542/harry_belafonte_says_obama_lacks_%22moral_compass%22/

Earlier this week, "Day-O" Banana-Boat singer/actor/activist Harry Belafonte spoke on the radio show Smiley & (Cornel) West, where Belafonte unleashed some harsh criticism of Obama's leadership that never made it to the broadcast. The Radio Equalizer, however, has exposed Belafonte's rant, uncensored.

HARRY BELAFONTE: When I think of Barack Obama and I think about all that is at stake here I’ve really long since left talking about how many terms he will be as a president. My question is what legacy will he leave having had the opportunity to serve under such hugely dramatic circumstances and boggled the mind and boggled people’s thinking and had such a huge impact on the universal state of things.

And how could he have had such a splendid opportunity to do more than most presidents would have ever been able to do and he let that opportunity slip away from him. And I am very cautious of the fact of those who thinks that he has some hidden agenda and that if only he could be given a second term for us to see the new light new things will be revealed. A new efforts will be made to take us to a place other than where we have been and where we languish.

I just don’t trust that. I don’t think that a safe way an accurate way to look at the scenario. I think if there was the kind of moral compass serving Barack Obama in the way we had all hoped, the moral force would have helped him make choices. The absence of that force in his equations the absence of that barometer to guide him when he has to make these decision which are hugely complicated, especially from the political perspective. He should have come to the table with things that I think would have helped us in this moment of crisis.

*** audio at link

[ensho]

1. Harry has lost his mind

nt

[BlueCaliDem]

144. No. He's just doing the KISS thing:

Keeping It Simple Stupid.

Governing is a helluva lot harder than most Lefties are kvetching about. In their FireBaggerLake La-la world, Glenn Greenwald is a Liberal, Ron Paul is God and can do no wrong, and that black man in the White House is an affront to Democrats. They conveniently forget Obama IS the MOST progressive president since LBJ - and yeah, that includes DLC Clinton - and considering what Congress a horrible filibuster-happy, obstructionist congress we have, that's pretty damn good.

I'll take Obama over Harry any day. Then again, I'm not lost in Ron Paul or brainwashed by Obamahater Hamsher, and I understand the political reality President Obama has to face day in, day out. But as most blacks will tell you here in America, their best is never enough.

[DonCoquixote]

214. If I copuld K and r this reply

I would

[BlueCaliDem]

278. Thanks, DC.

I really appreciate it.

[Mimosa]

217. WHo on DU is a Ron Paul supporter?

I doubt any good long term democrats 'hate' President Obama. Most of us contributed time and money to elect President Obama.

Harry Belafonte represents many Democrats who have expressed sincere disappointment regarding policies.

[BlueCaliDem]

275. Constructive criticism is good. DEstructive criticism will guarantee a President Romney.

I'm not 100% happy with everything President Obama has been able to accomplish, either, but I understand the political reality he faces with an unprecedented hostile Congress that's discovered the power of the filibuster. And whether most Americans know it or not, he needed to work with Congress to get anything done. It's how our government works.

Unfortunately, most Independents - NOT ALL, for those Independents who read this post and might get b-hurt - aren't politically astute, and the loud and angry voices of those on the Left together with the louder and angrier voices of the TeaBaggers on the Right, is all they heard. And it influenced their votes. Result? The TeaBagger blowout in Nov. 2010. This is destructive.

We are not doing ourselves any favors by shooting ourselves in the foot, or cutting our noses to spite our faces with continued wailing how Obama didn't give us everything we wanted. We got a helluva lot done, though, but thanks to the loud voices of the Firebaggers on the Left and the establishment and monied GOP, Teapublicans, and TeaBaggers on the Right, Independents and so-called Moderates voted for the TeaBagger candidate in overwhelming numbers. How is that supposed to help our country progress? By knee-capping our President?

There's a reason why today PPACA has 54% of Americans favoring repealing it although it's one of the most progressive and comprehensive reform on health care in sixty years. The constant wailing and kvetching from the Professional Left combined with the louder wailing and hateful rhetoric from the Monied Right has pushed the numbers down making people think, "Hey. Where there's smoke there's gotta be fire!" when nothing could be further from the truth.

[Cherchez la Femme]

412. This is a site FOR THE LEFT

Left = Liberals

the so-called Professional Left and "Firebaggers" included.

the "loud and angry voices of those on the Left" belong here just as much, if not perhaps more, than the centrists of the 'Obama can do no wrong' squad

If this angers you so, perhaps a venue without so many Professional Lefty Liberals would suit you better. Yes?












or didn't you know that?

As advertised on DU's front page:
"The best liberal discussion forums on the internet"

[BlueCaliDem]

414. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this site was called the DEMOCRATIC Underground

and last I looked, President Obama is a DEMOCRAT. FireBaggerLake maven, Hamsher, is NOT.

So, being a Liberal Democrat, and being the wonderfully inclusive Leftist you are, why again should I be the one to have to leave? Especially considering I've been here four years longer than you?

>>>> As advertised on DU's front page:
"The best liberal discussion forums on the internet" >>>

No wonder it's infested with anti-Obama lefties here. This is new, but at least it explains a lot. This is also a HUGE mistake. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Professional Left: Out to make Barack Hussein Obama a one-term president and to install Republicans back in power.

GOP/TeaBaggers/Rightwingers: Out to make Barack Hussein Obama a one-term president and to install Republicans back in power

Democrats: Out to ensure Barack Hussein Obama has a second term and to prevent Republicans from coming back in power.

[kneedeepinthehoopla]

442. Democrats are only as good as their ACTIONS!

Worshipping people like movie stars in a dangerous, ignorant business.

[eridani]

285. Obama is just as DLC as Clinton n/t

[Whisp]

433. +1 golden.

excellent.

[fortyfeetunder]

447. +1 also

The man was not elected to be a miracle worker. He can't possibly undo 8 years of mess in one term. And 2010 mid-terms results sealed that deal!

[harmonicon]

152. Your evidence for this is what?

He's nearly 85 years old and incredibly eloquent. If he's lost his mind, I only wish that more people could lose their minds in the same way.

[Xtraneous]

185. Agreed! So now that MSM has chosen the Rep candidate...

time to forget about the past four years of missed opportunities. Looks like that's the trend here.

[BlueCaliDem]

277. They did. On November 2, 2010.

How is that working out for us and the progressive movement?

Harry has a right to his opinion, but he doesn't have a right to his own set of facts. And considering his celebrity status, he should've been more careful with his words. He's part of the Liberals who are undermining the progressive movement by cutting our noses to spite our faces.

He could've simply stated, "I support President Obama because his policies are closer to my ideals than any Republicans, but I wish he'd do more to help the poor and impoverished."

What Harry did was scorched earth rhetoric, and that's not just dumb.

[zipplewrath]

393. Evidence?

There is little to no evidence that any activity on the part of progressives was the reason for the 2010 result. The primary evidence of which I am aware is a combination of generally low turn out of everyone except the Tea Baggers, and a shift of the moderate/centrist/independent voters away from democrats.

[BlueCaliDem]

394. And you don't think the loud and continuous kvetching by so-called Liberals on teevee

had any influence whatsoever? To believe that is to believe Liberal voices are powerless.

The constant attacks by DKos subscribers, Glenn Greenwald, Cenk Uygur, Markos Molitos, Robert Scheer, Jane Hamsher, some here on DU and on Huffington Post, Truthdig, and other Liberal sites had everything to do with the demoralization that caused Independents to hate ObamaCares and indirectly, all Democrats, and had them turn against the Democratic Party despite twelve years of failed rightwing policies and unprecedented GOP obstructionism in government.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

415. Bullshit. Here in NC, Republicans won control of the legislature in 2010...

primarily because Teabaggers were whipped into a Corporate Media-induced frenzy over death panels and socialism. Obama did next-to-nothing to explain "ObamaCares" and assuage their fears and he was applauded, you know, because chill the fuck out...he's got this!

Fast forward to 2011, and NC Democrats kicked ass at the local level, with the Dem mayoral candidate in Raleigh winning handily, and the Koch-funded Teabagger losing in a VICIOUS school board race, giving control back to the Dems. No one turned against the Democratic Party because candidates acted like Democrats, not milquetoast Circle Ders.

It's been said many times before on DU, but if Independents are that fucking malleable, perhaps Obama and every other Democrat should STICK WITH THE BASE, and not pander to people who can't make up their minds and take a stand, election after election. It's really pretty basic.

[BlueCaliDem]

449. Thank you for the information

but just as I don't think yours is, mine is not bullshit, either.

The 2011 elections in NC are a result of buyer's remorse spreading throughout the country after the huge victories TeaBaggers were able to book during the 2010 mid-terms, and the overreach by the Republican Party that campaigned on jobs, but once in power, were eliminating them and pushing socially conservative bills through their legislatures, instead.

President Obama did explain the PPACA as best as he could, but the Democratic Party themselves didn't go out and do much explaining, did they? In fact, Corporate Media exploited the TeaBaggers rage and Democratic acquiescence, projecting the right-wing fringe group as some force to be reckoned with when all they are, are Republicans; the same who vote Republican all the time.

Corporate Media, backed by millions of corporate dollars, happily propagandized exactly what the Koch bros and Freedom Works paid them to, and congressional Dems were almost non-existent on all the major networks where most people get most of their news. Even Ed Schultz and Rachel Maddow asked where were the Democrats to help President Obama.

And, I'm sorry to have to inform you, the Liberal Base is a powerful and well-meaning group, but they're not big enough to put the Democratic Party over the top and win elections. Democrats still need to court moderate, even somewhat conservative Independents - the largest voting block between the two parties - to win. That's just political reality.

[BlueCaliDem]

450. Thank you for the information

but just as I don't think yours is, mine is not bullshit, either.

The 2011 elections in NC are a result of buyer's remorse spreading throughout the country after the huge victories TeaBaggers were able to book during the 2010 mid-terms, and the overreach by the Republican Party that campaigned on jobs, but once in power, were eliminating them and pushing socially conservative bills through their legislatures, instead.

President Obama did explain the PPACA as best as he could, but the Democratic Party themselves didn't go out and do much explaining, did they? In fact, Corporate Media exploited the TeaBaggers rage and Democratic acquiescence, projecting the right-wing fringe group as some force to be reckoned with when all they are, are Republicans; the same who vote Republican all the time.

Corporate Media, backed by millions of corporate dollars, happily propagandized exactly what the Koch bros and Freedom Works paid them to, and congressional Dems were almost non-existent on all the major networks where most people get most of their news. Even Ed Schultz and Rachel Maddow asked where were the Democrats to help President Obama.

And, I'm sorry to have to inform you, the Liberal Base is a powerful and well-meaning group, but they're not big enough to put the Democratic Party over the top and win elections. Democrats still need to court moderate, even somewhat conservative Independents - the largest voting block between the two parties - to win. That's just political reality.

[zipplewrath]

457. Again, evidence

Your making an assertion based upon an assumption. Where is the evidence that the behaviors you describe resulted in the outcomes you observed. That is the fundamental aspect of science and logic. Most polls indicate it was the moderate/centrists that abandoned the democrats/Obama and those were supposedly the people that DID NOT agree with the criticisms of the progressive/liberals/leftists (professional left/sanctimonious/drug addled" as the White House called them).

[AAO]

456. "Tea Baggers, and a shift of the moderate/centrist/independent voters away from democrats."

You just cited the misinformed, the low-informed, and the truth-seekers.

[zipplewrath]

458. And the polls

exit pulling indicated that hard core leftist/progressives/liberals showed up in the usual numbers. It was the centrists/independents and "casual" voters who stayed home. They were turned off by the negotiations of the ACA by the White House and Bacuus. Even Obama will tell you that it was the PROCESS of the ACA that turned off many voters.

[AAO]

459. It sure did turn me off.

Especially taking single payer "off the table". But I will always vote. Unless it becomes completely meaningless.

[zipplewrath]

460. Sorta the point

LIberals/progressives/leftists were pissed, and voted. The centrists/moderates/independents voted, for the GOP. The Obama voters (who otherwise don't show up) didn't show up at all, despite OFA. There is the contingent that likes to blame the left for 2010 but the polls don't support their assertion. Otherwise the Blue Dogs should have won in droves.

[AAO]

461. Natch!

[jefferson_dem]

2. Fool.

[fascisthunter]

86. No... fools Follow Leaders Unquestioningly

and tend to attack critics with the usual garbage, because in truth, they can't defend their leader.

[BlueCaliDem]

143. Like you're doing now?

Thanks for clearing that up!

I'm so sick of Obamahaters here on DU. It's unbelievable how many there are. I'm so happy you are in the minority though, with polls showing Obama ENJOYS 84% approval rating with Liberal DEMOCRATS.

FiredogBaggers, of course, don't count. For anything, actually, except maybe for the longest whining and kvetching.

[Wind Dancer]

151. Obamahaters?

Questioning some of his policies does NOT make one a hater. This is a discussion forum, after all.

[BlueCaliDem]

207. And both you and I have been here long enough

to know there is very little questioning President Obama's policies, but LOTS of frothing-at-the-mouth hating wrapped in so-called "discussion".

I can go to the majority of posts here, in this thread alone, where judgment is passed as if Obama is a Republican - and blind support is posted for anyone who trashes PBO while Ron Paul is hailed as the second coming.

But, Wind Dancer, if the shoe doesn't fit . . .

[SwampG8r]

280. do it then and do it as you said "in this thread alone"

"go to the majority of posts here, in this thread alone, where judgment is passed as if Obama is a Republican - and blind support is posted for anyone who trashes PBO while Ron Paul is hailed as the second coming."
like will sonnet said "it aint braggin if you can do it"

[Xtraneous]

188. Whaaaaaaat?

Amazing how someone who disagrees with the pretty lame past 4 years is now a hater. Why bother debating anything? Just blindly become an Obamabot and you won't be attacked as an outsider. Why the heck is this blog called Democratic Underground if it's just a bunch of people who agree that the Democratic President is beyond reproach?

[BlueCaliDem]

209. A disingenuous response, at best

when I'm sure you're clever enough to have read the posts here, at the Democratic Underground, that excoriates a sitting Democratic president while defending wishy-washy Libertarians like Glenn Greenwald and Ron Paul, and when any and all negative comments or opinions posted by other critics are considered holy and not to be questioned.

Ever since I'd been a member of DU, since back in 2004, I have never, EVER, seen so many posts full of vitriol when a positive post appears in support of President Obama.

I would love to see a poll where the amount of positive posts for President Obama is held against the negative posts of him here. I believe I wouldn't be surprised by the results, but then again, it might not surprise you, either.

[totodeinhere]

200. Disagreeing with him doesn't necessarily make you a hater. In fact I consider it an insult

to call me hater when I have sincere disagreements with some of his policies.

[fascisthunter]

203. LOL... defend the criticism! If Not...

...well, honest people won't take you serious.

[BlueCaliDem]

210. Well, at least I know why YOU

don't like PBO that much, considering your 2008 Kucinich avatar. But I'm curious, how do you feel when DK was mulling about choosing the most CONservative Republican/Libertarian U.S. Rep since 1937 as a VP running mate back in 07? A Rep who would have unregulated corporations run the country without government oversight? Isn't that the definition of fascism, fascism hunter?

[fascisthunter]

229. lol

embarrassing for you

[BlueCaliDem]

333. lol

embarrassing? I'm not a DK supporter. Now that's funny.

[jefferson_dem]

227. Why, exactly, should anyone try to defend Obama from such an egregrious character assassination?

Perhaps Belafonte should avoid judging how much of a "moral compass" Obama has and stick to legitimate policy critiques if he wants people to take him seriously.

[fascisthunter]

230. That's sad hyperbole

[jefferson_dem]

234. Ironically...

That's exactly what Belafonte (and the OP) served up.

[fascisthunter]

238. nope... fail... have a good evening

[Mojorabbit]

286. Belafonte has the cred and has walked the walk for decades

He has earned the right to speak however he wants about politics and be taken seriously. I can't believe how many people have been thrown under the bus by posters on this site.

[BlueCaliDem]

338. He has never held elective office

He doesn't walk the walk. Getting anything through Congress does not want to get through is not as easy as the professional Left or Harry thinks.

Until he's president and has to deal with Congress to get anything passed, he doesn't have the cred to criticize this first black president who is under constant attack from all sides.

And if anyone's being thrown under the bus at this site, it's been President Obama by the Lefties. That happened almost right after the 2008 elections, by the way.

[Mojorabbit]

362. I am sorry but I totally disagree. I am amazed every day at how

members of this board will look the other way because a Democrat is president. This man put himself on the line for civil rights in the 50's and 60's. He walked his talk and paid a personal price for it. He has earned the right to speak out as he will. He totally has the cred.

[BlueCaliDem]

373. Disagree all you want

but those are the facts.

Harry has a right to his opinion and he has a right to speak out as he sees fit, but that doesn't make him right, and the scorched earth, cut-my-nose-to-spite-my face rhetoric isn't helpful for those he and you claim to care about. It can only make things worse on the poor should Obama not win reelection. You actually think any Repub would care about Harry and the poor?

Whether the Left want to admit it or not, President Obama has done more for the poor than any other president since LBJ, considering the uphill battle he's been waging with this Congress from the get-go.

You'd be disingenuous to say otherwise.

[SwampG8r]

279. how is he doing with the independents?

any sitting dem pres will have the support of a majority of his party
as any GOP candidate will have the suppot of the majority of his party
so it boils to the indie vote
how is that tracking?
and please...i am not being snarky i saw your post on percentages and thats the first question i had

[OnyxCollie]

345. 31% approval with independents.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

[BlueCaliDem]

351. According to that poll you've linked to, 41% not 31%

although I can recall your innate dislike for President Obama, so I can understand why you'd want to cite Gallup, and normally Republican friendly pollster, and shave off ten points just for kicks and giggles.

Period: January 2-8, 2012

Democrats: 83%

Republicans: 10% (duh)

Independents: 41%

But thank you for the link.

[OnyxCollie]

366. Pure independent- 31%

Your idol worship blinds you. That's what happens in cults.

[BlueCaliDem]

371. To be fair, you didn't mention PURE Independent

Check your own post. You posted Independents only.

So I'm right and you're wrong.

Your deep-seated hatred for all things Obama is fanatical, and fanaticism is true cult behavior.

[OnyxCollie]

372. The poll I cited

was the poll LoZoccolo used to tout the 85% approval among liberal Democrats.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002143461

It's not as impressive when one learns that moderate Democrats outnumber liberal Democrats, and that moderate independents are the largest group.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148745/Political-Ideology-Stable-Conservatives-Leading.aspx
[IMG][/IMG]

Your posts provide a lot of unintentional humor.

[BlueCaliDem]

374. I really don't care who cited the poll first

My contention that it's a pro-GOP pollster still stands, based on their own history. Gallup usually only gets their numbers right just before an election. As a progressive, you would know this. As a regressive you would dismiss it.

And although you claim my posts provide a lot of unintentional humor, I know they annoy the cr*p out of you since you had to respond to my post TWICE. Overkill, Onnie. It gives you away.

[OnyxCollie]

377. It's not who cited it first,

it's that it allows you to understand my "innate dislike for President Obama."

Does it show LoZoccolo's "innate dislike for President Obama", too?

Better alert the BOG; one of their own has gone rogue.

"So I'm right and you're wrong."

No, you're hopelessly biased, and unable to be objective.

[BlueCaliDem]

392. Taken out of context

which is cowardly, at best, you can claim I'm hopelessly biased and unable to be objective. But when put back in context, nope, sweetie, you're dead wrong. But don't own up to it. No one expects you to.

And the fact that you posted "Independents" instead of "PURE" Independents is disingenuous at best. I called you on it and it p*$$es you off you couldn't get away with making it look worse than it is. So, I win. You lose.

Now go outside and play with your collie. You're not selling your HateObamaFirst schtick here.

[OnyxCollie]

400. Please explain the context.

This ought to be good.

[BlueCaliDem]

401. You consider yourself a smart cookie

figure it out on your own.

[MinervaX]

305. Funny

Whenever I see somebody posting polls extolling how great Obama is doing on DU, the poll inevitable ONLY states his approval rating among "Liberal" democrats. It's never his polling numbers with the general population. The word "liberal" is about as meaningless to describe most Democrats as the word "conservative" is to describe most Republicans.

[BlueCaliDem]

341. Maybe it's because we're on a DEMOCRATIC site?

And being a Liberal Democrat myself, I support him as my president even though he didn't give me my pony.

I guess people who post polls here automatically assume this being a DEMOCRATIC site in support of DEMOCRATIC pols, especially a DEMOCRATIC president, there'd be constructive as opposed to destructive criticism by DEMOCRATS.

[MinervaX]

347. Read Chris Hedges 'Death of the Liberal Class'

and you'll start to get what I'm talking about.

[BlueCaliDem]

355. Liberal is the generic word for anything not Republican these days.

I'm a Liberal, but not a FireDogBagger type of Liberal. I'm a Pragmatic progressive who understands the ugly political realities of our government, and that the president is only as strong as a cooperative Congress, because the real power is concentrated, as our Founders tried to make clear to us, in the "of, by, for the people" branch of government, and that's Congress.

I support our president - who is known as the most progressive Democratic president since LBJ, btw - as opposed to falling for regressive Libertarian la-la screeches by the most conservative U.S. Rep since 1937.

Then you have the Liberal Left, the DK rhetoric supporters, the Glenn Greenwald Liberal/Libertarian hybrids, Truthdig, Hamsher, Michale Moore kvetchers who are constantly undermining a Democratic president because they say they thought they were voting for a Liberal when he never ran as one. But then again, that would depend solely on their view what a Liberal is supposed to be.

I have no problem people pushing this president to the left, but I do have a problem when all their kvetching demoralizes their core members, and Independents catch on and rush to support another Regressive instead of more PROgressives - as we'd seen on Nov. 2, 2010, because that defeats our purpose as Liberals and Progressives, doesn't it?

[RetroLounge]

426. Here comes the BOG

RL

[Whisp]

3. maybe someone should tally his bananas

I think he's short a bunch

[babylonsister]

8. hahaha! nt

[Number23]

138. He has said this at least five other times and each time, it is BREATHLESSLY posted here

Perhaps I need to start posting all of the black singers/academics/politicians/writers who support this president.

On second thought, if I did that, that would be the only thing posted in GD for the next three months.

[harmonicon]

154. What on earth is "support" supposed to mean in this context?

Belafonte isn't going to vote for a Republican over Obama and neither are 90-some percent of the other people who voted for him last time (like myself), but criticize how he's governed.

[Whisp]

156. saying Obama 'lacks moral compass' is much more than criticism

it's lunacy. Just bring yourself to think of the team that was choosen in 2000, the people like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld - those fuckers lacked moral compass so saying that about Obama is just not living in the real world with real working parts in the head.

[harmonicon]

170. He didn't just say that one sentence and walk away.

Read the rest, which puts it into perspective. You may disagree with him, but he's really quite articulate and definitely very very sane.

[Whisp]

178. I bet many wish he did!

and keep walking away and go to a corner and think about what he said.

[harmonicon]

184. Yes, it's clear that you wish that.

Keep ignoring the facts if that suits your narrative.

[OnyxCollie]

257. Why do you say Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld lacked a moral compass?

What did they do that was so terrible?

[TruthBeTold65]

149. awesome! nt

[ClassWarrior]

218. Please show some respect for a man who - in so many ways - would make you...

...look like a flea in comparison.

NGU.

[Whisp]

367. well if I'm a flea, then you might be a molecule on a flea's butt

compared to Obama.

[ClassWarrior]

408. I always show respect to the President. What's your excuse?

NGU.

[Whisp]

409. and I don't show much respect to

people who say idiotic things like:
If it weren't for Harry, Obama would not be Pres' or some such shit.

I don't know if you said that, agree with it, or whatever. I don't really care to look it up, but that shows me what kind of nuttery there is here.Or the other one, Matt Damon, who knows more about presidentin' than 'caver in chief' Obama.

I used to think only Republicans were challenged upstairs in these ways... but like my mama used to say: you never too old to pay attention to some learning, there are always surprises.

[ClassWarrior]

418. In other words, you're lashing out at everyone for the words of a few...

...that got stuck under your craw. About a celebrity you idolize.

Enuff said.

NGU.

[Whisp]

419. well i guess that settles that!

very convincing I must say. but not in the way you desperately want.

[ClassWarrior]

422. If that's not it, what is it? Why don't you care if you slam your fellow Dems, whether they...

Last edited Sat Jan 14, 2012, 06:42 PM - Edit history (1)

...deserve your spite or not (as you said in post #409)?

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

423. Is that all you have? Spite? No respect for anybody?

NGU.

[Whisp]

424. no respect for Anybody...

are you Always this, erm, excitable to speak in such superlatives ? are you, erm, drinking?

[ClassWarrior]

427. Nothing I could find using the search function.

So you really not know how to punctuate and capitalize a sentence, or are you... erm... drinking?

NGU.

[Whisp]

431. OMG!! why you....

:waves:

not interested in continuing, nothing there.

[ClassWarrior]

437. Of course not.

Nothing to see here. Look the other way.

NGU.

[RetroLounge]

434. Keeping it classy as usual

RL

[Whisp]

435. yah, you should talk to him.

I see your timid Vomit and I raise you a Projectile.

[RetroLounge]

425. Here comes the BOG

RL

[spanone]

4. well, harry, you can pull the lever for the mittster....who never had a moral compass

[Mira]

134. Lame response, and I'm sorry to say it n/t

[izquierdista]

5. Speak the truth, Harry

Even if the sycophants want to explain away murdering teenage children, explain away.

[roguevalley]

118. incredible. the fanboys and grrls just howl if there isn't sufficient love.

I think there is a generational divide here that those of you who have only known Reagan, Bush and et al cannot imagine someone saying this about your object of worship. I remember when a dem president would have cut off their hand before signing a law that allows Americans to be jailed, started with health care when the unemployment was double digit, offer up social security for cuts and allowed bush's tax cuts to live let alone have four more years.

Generational. That must be it. Some will never understand how things used to be and how PISSED some of us get with the quizling weasling of the politicians now over core Dem and Liberal issues. But I doubt that they care. They just don't know any better.

RV, who remembers the moral force that is Harry Belafonte

[kath]

255. Great post.

hope you don't mind that I quoted you in a post down below. (since you write so much better than I could)

[roguevalley]

266. not at all, darling. thank you.

[SwampG8r]

283. you are right

it is generational
i got to meet harry once
his auntie was a prep cook in a place i worked and he showed up to surprise her
a very sweet very personable gentle man and a gentleman
came in the back and begged not to be ratted out
i just realized i met alex haley the same way
i had a prep cook
her husband was one of the base race relations officers(air force bace up the road)
he came in one day for lunch
with another officer on the staff and the other mans father
the dad was alex haley
i recognized him and he also begged not to be ratted out
i got my malcolm x signed (still have it)as the cost of just being Lt.whatsisnames dad for the day
must not get to eat in peace when you get to a certain level of famous

[tomg]

306. Spot on. I think you are right about it

being - to a certain extent - generational. I never voted for a Republican for any office in my life, but I started marching in the streets against a Democratic President in 1967. As my so likes to say " principles over personalities."

[slay]

269. Indeed - And if he does have one - it's all wonky right now

too much negative republican pull on his compass. hopefully he will change that in his second term. good for Harry Belafonte for speaking the truth.

[Autumn]

6. Harry Belafonte has done it now.

But I still love him.

[MineralMan]

11. Disgusting.

I don't support Belafonte's conclusion, but what you wrote is just plain rude. I don't know that he has gonorrhea, and even if he did, it doesn't affect the brain. You may be thinking of syphilis, which I also don't know that he has. Rude, coarse insults against this man are out of line. I suggest you self-delete this ugly post. Argue the issues. Don't attack this man in that crude way.

[Number23]

140. I agree. That is a truly revolting post.

I don't even know if it's true that Harry has gonorrhea or not, but if he does that should be off limits. And you're right, it is syphilis that affects the brain as exemplified by the horrific Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment in the 1930s.

http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

[Octafish]

9. Throw him under the bus.

Obviously, Mr. Belafonte doesn't know a thing about morality.

This is intended for the culturally deprived.

[xiamiam]

17. i love this photo..and was trying to upload it..thanks for doing this

I also have unbelievable respect for Harry Belafonte who has been in the trenches long before some of those trashing him were even born. He is right about Obama.

[Cali_Democrat]

31. Great photo!

Harry can teach us all something if we're willing to listen. I also saw a prison show on MSNBC recently where he was giving motivational speeches to prisoners and he really inspired them. He is an amazing man and he really cares.

[_ed_]

40. Excellent point -- will be lost on most here

Most people around DU these days are only interested in short-term political gain for the Democratic party, not for liberal or progressive principles. Between a close personal confidante of Dr. King, and a Democratic politician, I know who has my respect.

[Cannikin]

58. Throw him under a bus?

Yes, you're absolutely right. How dare he not conform and comply.

Can we maybe not wish death on those who's opinions differ from ours?

[FarLeftFist]

77. Im 99.999% sure that was sarcasm.

[JackRiddler]

88. It's an expression, used sarcastically.

Those who do not conform to a party line, are thrown under the bus (metaphorically). They no longer matter, what good they've done is forgotten. (See the first few posts in this thread for examples.) And Octafish is using it mockingly, meaning: No, get over your urges to throw everyone under the bus who doesn't conform to party line.

[Octafish]

114. Please know I've never wished death on anyone whose opinions differ from mine.

On Democratic Underground, I've been known to criticize the Bush Family Evil Empire since 2002. In documenting their various acts of treason, mass murder, criminality and injustice, I have never called on any member of that family -- or anyone else in public life or in the news -- to be put to death.

In many cases where people have been found to have harmed the nation and innocent people, however, I have called for their investigation, indictment, trial and imprisonment for life. Thus, I have stood up against preventive war as a policy, as well as the summary execution of people accused of terrorism.

In the present example of throwing Harry Belafonte under the bus: The statement was meant to chide, sardonically, those who are so quick to dismiss Mr. Belafonte for criticizing the president. The reason for the image was to remind said readers that we need to remember Mr. Belafonte was one of Dr. King's earliest and staunchest supporters. We in the present day, including the president, would be wise to heed his counsel.

[Cannikin]

128. My apologies....I'm not sure why, but I've been sarcasm/irony impaired

since returning to DU.

[Number23]

141. Oh my God! Is that a picture of him with MLK??!

Well then that should silence all criticism of him. FOREVER.

[Octafish]

159. I hope not. Obama has been deficient in many areas of leadership.

He rightly deserves criticism -- from his healthy insurance company bill to forgiving bush for lying America into war and torture and illegal domestic spying to all the welfare for wall street to dropping a drone on an American teenager because he could.

You, of all people, should know that. And more.

[Number23]

165. I was talking about Belafonte. You seem to have misread -- EVERYTHING

considering that it was you that posted the pic of Belafonte and MLK.

Edit: And as for your "You, of all people, should know that. And more." crap, I don't know what you're referring to but I have a feeling it is going to be VERY illuminating to find out.

[whistler162]

186. The correct term is jumping under the bus!

[Mimosa]

196. What could old Harry know about anything?

Octafish, don't you know Belafonte is a geezer who has no understanding of today's 'real politics'?

Just like Andrew Young and Cornel West, what can they know?

BTW, here's a link to a review and info about Belafonte's film noir masterpiece "Odds Against Tomorrow":

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053133/

[slay]

271. Thanks for the link - I've never seen that

but i plan to now!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

416. Andrew Young was thrown under, too?

Damn, I missed it. At least they're all in stellar company.

[TransitJohn]

262. That cinches it. Belafonte is obviously a fringe purist who doesn't know how politics work.

He just wants a pony. He has no idea how hard it is for Obama to work with the Congress. etc. etc. etc.


Obviously:

[slay]

270. Great photo of two great men

and Belfaonte is right - Obama needs a compass adjustment from agreeing with the republicans way too damn much - to charting his own path - preferably a VERY progressive one.

[young but wise]

10. Well, I disagree with Mr. Belafonte.

[Itchinjim]

12. Mr. Belafonte is an idiot.

The Matt Damon of the calypso world.

[_ed_]

41. An idiot who used to hang around with

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He was one of Dr. King's closest friends and confidantes.

Is there no end to the list of actual progressives that we won't tarnish for short-term political gain around here?

[Itchinjim]

147. Charlton Heston also hung around with MLK .

I guess that makes him an "actual progressive" too. Here's an idea for Mr. Belafonte: Primary President Obama. Put your outrage where your mouth is; quit being a lefty ankle-biter and run for POTUS. Come on Harry, show America and the world what a real "actual progressive" like yourself can accomplish!

[EFerrari]

235. It really is lamentable to see such profound ignorance about Harry Belafonte posted here,

Belafonte who many times put his ass right in the line of fire, who was always among the first to answer any call, in Selma, in Montgomery, everywhere. Who supported Dr. King and his family right out of his own pocket.

Embarrassing, really, to call on a man like that to show anything to anybody when his life speaks for itself.

[Itchinjim]

296. Well a good way for Harry to educate America about his life is for him to run for POTUS.

Otherwise to most of America he will be forever known as that guy who sang that banana song from "Bettlejuice". Here is something that is profoundly sad, that a man of Mr. Belefonte's stature has reduced himself to sniping from bushes at the first African-American president. I wonder if the Harry Belefonte of 1962 ever expected that within his lifetime an African-American would be elected to any higher office, let alone the presidency? I betcha the 1962 Harry would tell the 2012 Harry to put a sock in it.

[EFerrari]

336. And I bet, as with everything else, you'd be wrong about that, too. n/t

[Itchinjim]

365. If you say so, honey

[_ed_]

302. I don't think Harry Belafonte has anything to prove

to you or anyone else. The man was at Selma (and you ironically ask him to "put his outrage where his mouth is&quot , among other crucial civil rights milestones, alongside one of our greatest American heroes, Dr. King.

Were you at Selma? Did you march with Dr. King? How dare you call him a "left ankle-biter?"

You should be ashamed of yourself. There's more to politics than winning the 24 hour news cycle.

[Itchinjim]

304. Until Mr. Belefonte accuses Condeliza Rice, Colon Powell, and Clarance Thomas

of lacking a "moral compass" he will be a left wing ankle-biter with very little credibility. In the meantime, if Harry Belefonte can do a better job than Obama, then he should run for POTUS. His country needs him!

[_ed_]

307. Come to think of it,

I've never specifically heard Harry Belafonte denounce and reject Adolf Hitler, either.

Also, interesting to read that nobody can criticize the President unless they are actually running for the office. Who knew? I remember lots of people here bashing Bush from 2000-2008, but I don't think any of them ran for office. I guess they didn't think they could do a better job.

[Itchinjim]

309. Nice use of Godwin's law.

[_ed_]

313. Nice way avoid my response

I was showing that your point about him not criticizing Condi Rice and Colin Powell is a fallacy and a cheap way to make an argument.

I was also pointing out that your requirement that one must run for office before criticizing the President is also fucking stupid.

[Itchinjim]

319. Ouch!

[LanternWaste]

317. Seems to me that Godwin's Law is more often than not

Seems to me that Godwin's Law is more often than not, cited merely as a replacement to sincere and honest dialog.

I imagine the day will soon come when the history professor is accused of breaking Godwin's Law after discussing 20th century history in a lecture. I imagine he also will allow it the same amount of consideration it truly warrants.

[PA Democrat]

322. If you took 10 seconds to do a little research

you'd find that Mr. Belafonte had harsh words for Herman Cain when he was the GOP frontrunner.

Last week, he called GOP frontrunner Herman Cain a “false negro” and despite Cain’s continued rise in the polls, continues to dismiss him and his campaign for president.

“Any man who can say that poor people are poor and it’s their own fault is not a man to be trusted,” says Belafonte. “A man who feels people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps isn’t someone who needs to lead. Some people don’t even have boots to put on. So what is he talking about.’’

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/16/harry-belafonte-on-his-life-obama-s-moral-compass-civil-rights-struggle.html

[Itchinjim]

327. I knew that. That's why I didn't mention him.

[PA Democrat]

329. Yeah, right. Because you were also wrong about Rice & Powell.

[Itchinjim]

330. Triple ouch!!!!

[PA Democrat]

326. Actually he had a much harsher assessment of Rice & Powell. He called Powell a "house slave"

Google is your friend if you don't want to further embarass yourself.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/harry-belafonte-calls-herman-cain-a-bad-apple/

[Itchinjim]

328. Double ouch!

[Mojorabbit]

368. He is way ahead of you. You might want to look things up before you post

He dismisses the appointment of Condoleezza Rice and before her, Colin Powell, to positions of genuine power in George W Bush's administration.

He has described them as "house slaves", and doesn't feel their presence has helped his cause in any way.
Belafonte says he sees progress and is hopeful of more
"He puts them there in the service of power. They are quite powerless - powerless - powerless," he says.
"They are extensions of George W Bush, Condoleezza Rice is revered nowhere. She has influence over a nothingness."

Does she not make even one millimetre of difference, I asked. "She makes a difference for the worse," Belafonte replied.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6420733.stm

[CakeGrrl]

259. "Short term political gain"?

What's being gained?

Once again, people who love people who criticize Obama can't stand it when others disagree with the criticism...oh, the violins out for pooooor Glenn Greenwald, etc. Disagreeing with opinions is ALL fair game all around or NONE of it should be.

[ronnie624]

268. Some of the posts are quite foul.

Disagreement is done by addressing the issues with logic and a reasonable, compelling argument. I don't find much of that here. I usually avoid posting in these partisan threads, because the anger, hyperbole and deliberate misrepresentations make rational discussion impossible. I like to skim through them and find the rare nuggets of insight.

[EFerrari]

261. No, there isn't. n/t

[Beacool]

72. And Obama is a Chicago, ivy leagued educated, yuppy.

Mr. Belafonte called it as he saw it.

[dionysus]

157. and here i was afraid the banky would come back marked "return to sender"

happy new year Bea

[Beacool]

211. Thank you, sweets!!!!

How were your holidays? Did Santa bring you lots of goodies?

I appreciated the banky. New year, new banky.

[dionysus]

410. the hollidays were quite relaxing... i got to visit maine, and santa was kind. how about you?

[Beacool]

438. I went to FL, AL & GA.

I had a blast. Pity I had to go back to work.

Oh, well............

[dionysus]

444. ooh, quite the jetsetter...

[Beacool]

445. You know how it is; places to go, people to see............

[dionysus]

448. but do you have a special airplane banky?

[Beacool]

453. No, I don't.

[DonCoquixote]

281. Actually

Hillary was the one born in Chicago, unlike Mr. Obama. Look it up.

And she was always an Ivy educated Yuppie (note the spelling, it's not Yuppy, like puppy.) Unlike Obama, she was a Republican once, and even helped work to put them in office (again , look it up.)

And if I may humbly call things as I see them, how people think that Hillary Clinton, she who helped her husband gut welfare, gut Glass-Steagal, and build the overall shift of the Democrats to the right would have been some iron liberal that would have whipped the Blue Dogs of congress into line is folly. Considering how she and her hubby supported many of them, like Blanche Lincoln and Mary Landrieu.

[CakeGrrl]

346. Thank you.

'Nuff said.

[jenmito]

375. WOO! Great post! I'd rec it if I could. n/t

[Beacool]

439. I know Obama's life history. Double ditto for Hillary's.

So you can save your snide remarks and stuff them.

[DonCoquixote]

440. and you were the one

using Chicago as an insult.

And if you know her history, you will know why many people on the left distrust the Clintons. I will note that you did not refute any of the facts given, just told me to "stuff them" which is the sort of thing that we would expect GOP to do when confrotned with facts. Not that I think you are GOP, but that you should know better.

[Beacool]

443. Please, save it.

The Clintons may not be perfect, but I personally know how much they care and how hard they work to help others. You don't like them? You are entitled to your opinion as much as I'm entitled to mine.

[EFerrari]

111. You have no idea who you are talking about.

There would be no Barack Obama without Harry Belafonte, who personally fought to get Obama senior to the United States when the British government tried to block his study here.

[ljm2002]

124. Way to go...

...smearing one of the earliest and staunchest supporters of the Civil Rights Movement, when it was anything but safe to do so.

Now one may disagree with his interpretation, or think it is a bit over the top. Personally, I agreed with most of his statement but I found the "moral compass" part to be a little harsh, in that neither Mr. Belafonte nor I knows what is in President Obama's heart. As he seems to be an excellent father and family man, I don't believe he lacks a moral compass; rather, when it comes to making policies, I think he filters it through his moderate-conservative-appeaser lens, and is hell-bent on making compromises with people who really do lack a moral compass. The resulting policies reflect that flawed process. (*)

(*) Please note in the above, I did not say or imply that I would prefer Romney / Gingrich / Paul in the role of POTUS.

One more comment: what, pray tell, is your objection to Matt Damon??? While I don't find him a particularly great actor, his heart seems to be in the right place politically IMO. Or did he come out and criticize President Obama too? Oh, pardon me, I seem to have a case of the vapors.

[RetroLounge]

428. Here comes the BOG

RL

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Mr. Belafonte has more to say about President Obama, if anyone cares to read.

“I think he’s lost his moral compass,’’ says Belafonte. “I saw a lot of the same qualities that I saw in Bobby and Martin in Barack in the beginning. But I think he’s allowed the opposition to get the better of him. I think he thought it would be different and that it wouldn’t be such a huge fight for every issue. He lost some of his fight, and that’s how he lost his moral compass. He has to get that back if he wants to be the type of leader that’s remembered for real change.’’

Belafonte is hopeful Obama can turn that corner, particularly in light of the recent protests over Wall Street and the continuing outcry for more attention to the plight of the poor.

“I always tell people that President Kennedy didn’t make history, history made Kennedy,’’ says Belafonte. “The social issues of that day, like civil rights, Vietnam and the women’s movement, forced Kennedy to be a leader, and a strong one. He had no other choice. The same will happen to Obama. The issues facing the country will force him to get back on track and regain his moral compass to fight hard for those who are suffering. He has all the smarts and ability to get the job done. He just has to do it.’’

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/16/harry-belafonte-on-his-life-obama-s-moral-compass-civil-rights-struggle.html

[Autumn]

14. This man is awesome

what a life he has led.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

21. Incredibly life.

A man dedicated to the cause in a way few are. That he REMAINS dedicated to it when a fellow African American is in office tells me about the depth of his commitment.

[Solly Mack]

59. Thank you for posting that.

[Beacool]

69. I have always liked Belafonte.

I'm sure that to some he has now become an enemy. I guess that only adulatory comments are permissible.

[SwampG8r]

287. if only adulatory posts are allowed

this will become florida gator underground
since all others should not be adulated

[Beacool]

316. Hi, Swamp!!!

How are you? Did you have a good holiday season?

[SwampG8r]

352. very nice

we listened to the harry belafonte christmas collection
beautiful clear voice
i hope your was good not too freezy not too hot but juuuuuuust right!
can you believe the things they are saying about this fine man? this is terribly terribly sad to me
he had an aunnt that i worked with
when he came to the town to sing he came by around 8 am looking for her to say hello
she didnt come on until 9 and he decided to surprise her
one of the best hours in my life
vvery nice very enjoyable company
a genuine gentleman
i would say he was at least an honorable honorary gator

[Beacool]

406. Wow, lucky you!!!

Amazing what they will say about him just because he's disappointed in Obama. I think that Belafonte has more than earned the right to have an opinion on Obama or anything else.

Yes, let's make him an honorary Gator!!!!

My holidays were nice. I was in FL, AL & GA. Had a lot of fun!!!

Hugs,
Bea

[AnotherMcIntosh]

104. Belafonte is right about many things. But, if the quote re JFK represents his views, he's wrong.

Kennedy was a leader long before he became President.

As a President, he had choices to make. All Presidents do.

None of the cited issues "forced Kennedy to be a leader." He was a leader before confronting those issues, and he made decisions which were morally right.

[LiberalAndProud]

121. I do care to read.

Marking for a later time.

[ronnie624]

273. A much better article.

“Any man who can say that poor people are poor and it’s their own fault is not a man to be trusted,” says Belafonte. “A man who feels people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps isn’t someone who needs to lead. Some people don’t even have boots to put on. So what is he talking about.’’

Love it!

[xiamiam]

16. i want to share one of my favorite photos of Harry and Dr King,

would someone tell me how to do that..
on edit..octafish already posted it although i still need to know how to do that

[immoderate]

50. You have to upload the photo to the internet first...

I have an account at PhotoBucket. There are others.

Then copy the link from your photo and paste it into the post here.

--imm

[xiamiam]

61. thank you..nt

[truth2power]

18. What many of us have been saying here for a long time. Sad, but true. n/t

[treestar]

19. Sounds like a republican

"morality" is not politics.

[marions ghost]

25. If not then

how do you counter Republican immorality?

Morality, ethics, integrity, is not a concern of theirs as far as I can see.

[treestar]

30. Obama has those things

Harry is confused about how the system works. You can have integrity but that won't stop the Republicans from filibustering every single issue. It's the Republicans who lack "morality" on that end.

[Autumn]

33. Harry is confused about how the system works.

Now that is just hilarious.

[treestar]

35. Glad to be able to amuse you and give you a good laugh

But how would Obama lack morality because Republicans and even Democrats won't do any given moral thing that he wants done?

Harry is a singer. He is likely not a constitutional scholar. I bet he cannot identify the top 10 Supreme Court cases or US statues on any given subject, nor can he apparently figure out that the most moral president in the world doesn't get his way entirely.

[immoderate]

52. Harry was an activist before he was a singer...

but not as well known for it. From Wiki -- just one paragraph:
[div class="excerpt" style="background:#ccccff;"]Belafonte supported the Civil Rights Movement in the 1950s and was one of Martin Luther King Jr.'s confidants. He provided for King's family, since King made only $8,000 a year as a preacher. Like many other civil rights activists, Belafonte was blacklisted during the McCarthy era. He bailed King out of the Birmingham City Jail and raised thousands of dollars to release other civil rights protesters. He financed the Freedom Rides, supported voter registration drives, and helped to organize the March on Washington in 1963.

There's more. He was an early protege of Paul Robeson. He's not a newcomer.

--imm

[JackRiddler]

56. You are kind to explain that.

I was getting ready to alert on the basis of "staggering ignorance and projection on a stranger," although that doesn't seem like grounds.

[immoderate]

57. No problem. As the late, great Sam Kinnison used to say...

"I'm just trying to help."


--imm

[treestar]

96. Why is it that singers are so precious and special?

Harry gets himself into politics and so if he can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You can't alert because I don't like Harry's statements.

[JackRiddler]

117. Didn't alert, won't, don't generally...

But the ignorance your post shows by calling him stupid or a fool for being a singer, or your saying he couldn't name 10 Supreme Court decisions ... it's just shocking. How do you know? I bet he can run down a lot more SC decisions than you. I say so because first, I know he's a very smart man, and second, the evidence I see for you is that you indicate no idea who he is, or what he likely knows, although it's easy to learn about a public figure. This would be forgivable, except then you mouth off like that. Can't you even read about him on Wikipedia before posting, so that your slanders are at least remotely informed?

[Wind Dancer]

160. +1

Beautifully stated! Thank you!

[treestar]

167. I really don't care "who" anyone is

And I can bet I know more about Supreme Court decisions than he does, and I'm about sure President Obama does.

It's not a contest about he and I. It's me being able to criticism what he says. We are supposed to listen to criticism of the President and not defend it at risk of being doomed as cheerleaders. But criticism precious Harry and the gloves are off! We have no right to criticize the critics.

[dflprincess]

237. But you're not criticising what Belafonte says, you're just taking pot shots at him

and ones that clearly show you know nothing about the man or his long involvement in civil rights and humanitaran causes.

If you want to defend Obama, do so. But if the only way you can do it is by slamming Harry Belafonte I'm thinking you got nothing to defend Obama with.

I never heard anyone on this board complaining when Belafonte slammed Bush or saying that a singer didn't have any business doing so.

[treestar]

241. Precious Harry can never be criticized

We get it.

[scarletwoman]

258. Projection much?

What you're really saying is that "precious" Obama must not be criticised, and you'll mock and deride anyone who does so. You have already shown that you don't know a damn thing about Belafonte and his lifelong activism on behalf of justice and civil rights.

You just ignorantly attack anyone who doesn't toe your line of unquestioning Obama sycophancy.

[fascisthunter]

395. no... it's precious Obama and you can't handle any of it

nor can any other partisan fanatic.

[pecwae]

297. That sounds an awful

lot like plain green jealousy. Criticize all you want, but consider his contributions when tossing around words like fool, idiot and "I care more about ___than Harry". He's more than a singer and you've already made it a contest between yourself and Belafonte; no one else did that. Own it.

[ljm2002]

127. Obama got himself into politics...

...and so if he can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

In other words, you try and discredit Harry Belafonte because he is a singer. Then you try and say he doesn't understand politics enough to understand that one must be able to "take the heat" in politics. This then becomes your flagpole to fly the banner of "You can't alert on me just because I don't like his statements".

Well, by the same token, Obama chose to go into politics. He needs to be able to "take the heat" also. So therefore, if Harry Belafonte wants to criticize Obama, well he is perfectly within his rights to do so. (as an aside, Obama clearly is able to take the heat; he seems anything but thin-skinned to me)

By the way, trying to imply that Harry Belafonte does not understand politics / heat / kitchens -- it is to laugh. No, really:



Maybe you should do a bit of reading on Belafonte's career before you try and dismiss him out of hand as just a singer who dares to speak out about politics.

By the way, here is a list of some other singer/activists off the top of my head: Paul Robeson, Odetta, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan. There are, of course, many, many more such artists who were instrumental in moving this country and others (e.g. South Africa) towards racial justice.

[treestar]

169. I'm not saying Obama can't be criticized

You're saying precious Harry cannot.



Apparently it is wrong ipso facto to support the president or defend him.

Enjoy your negativity. Now the President is "immoral" too I guess. Gee maybe Mitt will have moral force.

[ljm2002]

176. No, dear, I am not saying that "precious Harry" cannot be criticized...

...in fact, in another post I have stated that I would not have used the term "moral compass". It's the kind of term that is guaranteed to raise hackles, and indeed it has.

OTOH, Belafonte has indeed earned the right to be listened to respectfully on issues of politics including President Obama. One need not agree with him. One might think he is old school in his analysis; one might be correct in that assessment. One might vehemently disagree with his assessment of Obama. But he has damned well EARNED the right to speak his piece without being denigrated as "one banana short of a bunch", "an idiot", etc. as we have seen in this thread.

It is not wrong to support the president or defend him. But there are a lot of knee-jerk reactions to any and every criticism of the President. It's silly, and often seems to be done in an attempt to shut down reasoned discussion.

[treestar]

246. You're giving Harry sacred cow status

He earned the right to be "listened to?" OK, I listened. And did not find any intelligent comment.

He has not earned crap. Why don't you say President Obama then, "earned" the right to be heard?

[Old and In the Way]

263. He's the new Glen Greenwald.

Good for Harry. I haven't heard much from him in the past few years. I guess it was his turn to get some exposure. Maybe the Republicans will invite him to their convention and let him sing the Banana Boat Song. Seems like a great opportunity for Harry.

[PA Democrat]

299. "The new Glen Greenwald"

IOW, the next person to be targeted for character assassination for daring to criticize Obama.

Do you know ANYTHING about the history of the Civil Rights movement and the key role Harry Belafonte played in it? Because if you did, you wouldn't make such an assinine comment.

[treestar]

339. What of people who participated in the civil rights struggle, who support the President?

I suppose they are just "cheerleaders."

If Harry wants to get into it, he can be targeted for character assassination too. By saying PBO lacks moral compass, he's assassinating PBO's character. Can't stand the heat? Don't go into the kitchen.

[PA Democrat]

344. They should be treated with an equal amount of respect.

It is fine to disagree with someone's opinion without resorting to the disgusting comments posted by several people on this thread. I would expect that sort of trash at Free Republic (by the way the Freepers LOVED the comments about the "tally man" and "gonorrhea&quot not at DU. It's also telling that many on this thread are either completely ignorant of the contributions that Harry Belafonte made to the Civil Rights movement or choose to trivialize it. Again, not one of DU's finest moments.

I'd also encourage you to read the full text of Mr. Belafonte's comments because they are much more nuanced than the one line everyone is focused on. Belafonte has acknowleged the tremendous opposition that the President has faced from the Republicans. I think that Belafont also knows something about fighting against tremendous odds.

And please extend to me the common courtesy of not trying to put words into my mouth, treestar. I have never called anyone a cheerleader.

[Mimosa]

455. Treestar, it's generational

Remember when Andrew Young said he didn't believe Obama was 'seasoned enough' to becomed president 'at this time'?

I believed then and believe now that Andrew Young was simply mistaken.

But wer should always listen to and learn from people who are older. Their experiences and knowledge are valuable.

[Old and In the Way]

340. Oh gee, I am obviously not nearly as knowledgeable on the subject as you are.

I hope you enjoy Harry's message because I expect the republicans will spend $20MM on commercials using Harry's own words to sell the morons on how evil Obama is.

[PA Democrat]

356. LOL. Let me know when those $20 MM of Harry Belafonte commercials air.

In the infamous words of Bill Clinton, 'It's the economy stupid."

This election will be a referendum on the economy and people's assessment as to whether Obama's policies have been effective.

[treestar]

95. Didn't know that

Still, what is he complaining about here? Because the Civil Rights Act was right and proper doesn't mean Obama could get a public option or that Harry understands other bills and whether they are constitutional. Or, if he is so experienced, why is he going after Obama's morality for not getting whatever Harry wants? How does he think the most moral President could get everything he wants? It's the same old, same old "critique from the left."

[immoderate]

103. Yes, he's a leftist, and he sees Obama as a corporatist.

So do I, and I imagine so would Dr. King.

He's complaining that we have a system that funnels wealth to the wealthy and the president talks like a supply-sider.

--imm

[PA Democrat]

115. Amy Goodman did a great interview with Harry Belafonte last year

on the topic of his music and his activism.

[immoderate]

137. Good clip.

Thanks.

--imm

[Mimosa]

197. How well I remember

My mother was an NAACP volunteer. Mr. Belafonte was a guest at our home.

[SwampG8r]

288. isnt he the sweetest guy?

he was very nice when i met him very genuine
i had traveled a lot for work and he had been everywhere
so we sat and played i ate here and i worked here and did you ever go out to _______and try the ______ ?
seemed like he genuinely liked the interaction
fun kind of person

[Autumn]

55. Harry has put on his comfortable shoes and walked the walk,

he lived the life and was first and foremost an activist. I bet he could tell our Constitutional Scholar President about Constitutional protections. Harry has walked the walk and talked the talk. I would be willing to bet Harry knows a thing or two more about life and politics than Obama does.

[treestar]

98. Sorry but there's no way he knows as much about government, politics, or law

Or he wouldn't be bloating about "morals."

[Beacool]

70. What you don't know about Belafonte could fill an encyclopedia.

I'm glad that someone educated you on the subject.

[treestar]

97. So what, it is what he says not who he is

I don't have to know anything about him to critique what he is now saying. You're trying to create sacred cow status for a person.

[ljm2002]

129. "You're trying to create sacred cow status for a person."

Oh my. This appears to be a classic, CLASSIC case of projection.

Every time someone lobs a strong criticism towards President Obama, out of the woodwork they come, the cult-of-personality types who will brook NO criticism of their golden boy.

[treestar]

166. Better than brooking no criticism of Harry or Matt Damon or Glen G. or whoever

Why do we have a duty to not defend the President from criticism? Your only complaint seems to be me supporting the President. Like that is wrong by itself.

[ljm2002]

179. Bull puckey.

You say:

"Better than brooking no criticism of Harry or Matt Damon or Glen G. or whoever"

"Why do we have a duty to not defend the President from criticism?"

"Your only complaint seems to be me supporting the President.

Congratulations on the use of straw men. Three in one short post! Well done!

Please, feel free to defend the President from criticism. You might start by addressing the substance of Belafonte's remarks, rather than simply objecting to the fact that he makes them.

[treestar]

242. I did respond to substance, stating

that it is ridiculous to say the President doesn't have morals. He is simply not a monarch.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

76. You just need to stop on this topic --

Now you're just embarrassing yourself. Really.

[FarLeftFist]

80. I see what you're saying in terms of morality, it's the republicans who want children to starve,

senior citizens to go poor, no one to have healthcare etc. Also, in a way you're correct, we're a Nation built on laws not morals. But I do happen to agree with some of what Belafonte is trying to grasp at.

[choie]

26. Really? Politics...

IS about principles - and those are something that this current iteration of Obama clearly lacks.

[treestar]

32. Politics is not about pure principles

Politicians have to compromise. We all do, or we'd be at constant war with our neighbors.

It's a hard sell that the President lacks "morality." He has a personal moral code. There is no doubt of that. But you can't trace your personal moral code into a reality on earth - no one can. Right wingers honestly believe abortion is immoral - do you admire them for living up to their moral code?

[choie]

73. Compromise??

His actions are nothing to laud - he has compromised at every turn. At some point, you have to believe in something more than compromise.

[treestar]

101. In life, but in politics you have to compromise

At least, in the US, where it is reasonable to expect that. Everything is not a great Drama or Right and Wrong. In U.S. politics, that is long gone, ever since we were founded, we have had a decent system of laws.

As I said, you'd then have to admire the tea partiers and anti-choicers, no and would admire them more if they stuck to their moral code being legislated into law?

[itsnotaboutu]

212. Well said,

That's what I've seen in the last 3+ yrs. COMPROMISE after compromise after compromise.
I believe that's what Mr. Belafonte is referring to, I too have been waiting for Mr. Obama to stand firm on something, anything, rather than caving in every time the Republicans say no he just gives them what they want. It's very disheartening.

We all had such high hopes

[Doctor_J]

36. Yeah, they're always complaining about the president being too corpo-conservative

[Marr]

45. No-- YOU sound like a Republican.

[Romulox]

65. Somebody had to say it! nt

[_ed_]

47. He's obviously a Republican

A Republican who just happened to be one of Dr. Martin King's best friends and confidantes.

I seriously can't believe the shit I read around here lately.

[Romulox]

64. Right. "Morality" (scare quotes yours) is for jerks. nt

[Maven]

91. Wow. Says pretty much everything one needs to know about your worldview.

[Bonobo]

187. "morality is not politics"

Sounds like Hitler.

[RetroLounge]

429. Here comes the BOG, oh yes, indeed!

RL

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. Mr. Belafonte always calls it the way he sees it --

it's one of the things I respect about him the most. He is old school in the BEST possible sense.

[emilyg]

62. ....

[bigtree]

22. "He has all the smarts and ability to get the job done. He just has to do it.’’

nice selective quoting

[ProSense]

23. I

"Harry Belafonte Says Obama Lacks 'Moral Compass'"

...completely disagree. I mean, Belafonte would have people believe Obama is without a soul.

Everyone has flaws, but one can find Obama's "moral compass" in his policies from health care to wall street reform. His creation of the first-ever consumer protection bureau and his revitalization of the NLRB.

In his personal actions: Obama Has Written Personal Checks To Struggling Americans
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/21/obama-personal-checks_n_1019501.html

The stranger who loaned Mary 103 bucks
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20081026/NEWS/810260367

In his foreign policy:

What was done right this year?

Posted by Heather Hurlburt

<...>

2. Finding its feet on human rights. Few will have noticed even among the wonk-erati, but from institutionalizing government procedures for catching potential genocides in advance, focusing on women's role in international peace and security and improving Pentagon training on human rights, the Administration put several long-fought initiatives into place this year. Secretary Clinton's LGBT initiatives only got noticed at home when conservatives tried to make political hay out of the radical idea that sexual orientation should not be a death sentence; her speech that accompanied the women's initiative in December didn't even get that much attention. but in the rest of the world, where sexual and gender violence are all-too prevalent, and three women were among the Nobel Prize winners, this kind of US leadership will matter. The relevance of the US intervention in Libya for human rights will be debated for decades; what should be remem bered is how it also allowed a UN Security council-backed mission to remove a sore election loser in Cote d'Ivoire and end developing carnage.

3. South Sudan. That the new nation was able to come into existence successfully, and relatively quietly, this year is due in no small part to the Administration's interventions at the UN and on the ground.

4. Iraq troop withdrawal. Not so long ago, this didn't seem a foregone conclusion at all.

<...>

6. Decline of Al Qaeda. US military actions, including but not limited to the killing of Bin Laden, have hastened the organization's decline and its loss of support among the global Muslim community, dramatized so vividly in the Arab Spring.

<...>

An interesting problem. These achievements-- which are real and substantial-- are for the most part downpayments on a better future, on a set of global institutions and relationships which work better and function smoothly in a different, more prosperous time. It is hard, from either a security or an economic perspective, to stack that long-range view up against the real or perceived challenges we face, or that we hear shouted about on cable.

http://www.democracyarsenal.org/2011/12/what-was-done-right-this-year.html

• Ordered an end to the use of torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment, withdrew
  flawed legal analysis used to justify torture and applied the Army Field Manual on interrogations
  government wide.
  
• Abolished the CIA secret prisons.
  
• Says that “waterboarding is torture” and “contrary to America’s traditions… contrary to our ideals.”
  
• No reports of extraordinary rendition to torture or other cruelty under his administration.
  
• Failed to hold those responsible for past torture and other cruelty accountable; has blocked
  alleged victims of torture from having their day in court.

http://www.aclulibertywatch.org/ALWCandidateReportCard.pdf

One can even find the President's moral compass in the difficult maneuvering to close Guantanamo.

Letter to President Obama: End Detention Without Trial and Close Guantanamo
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/01/10/letter-president-obama-end-detention-without-trial-and-close-guantanamo

[Doctor_J]

38. Harry means compass as something that guides his actions

Obama may agonize over all of these Republican policies he's stuck with/grown, but he's enacted them nevertheless.

[ProSense]

43. Well,

"Harry means compass as something that guides his actions...Obama may agonize over all of these Republican policies he's stuck with/grown, but he's enacted them nevertheless."

...that's exactly why I disagree. Repeat: Everyone has flaws, but one can find Obama's "moral compass" in his policies from health care to wall street reform. His creation of the first-ever consumer protection bureau and his revitalization of the NLRB.

Revitalizing the NLRB and creating the CFPB are not "Republican policies."

Torture is a Republican policy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002147168

[girl gone mad]

74. "Repeat: Everyone has flaws"

What are Obama's flaws?

[ProSense]

84. Hmmm?

"What are Obama's flaws?"

He doesn't have the power to change things fast enough, hasn't acted on somethings in a way that would please his critics, has made some missteps, and will never be able to please some people.

[hootinholler]

105. Those are Obama's flaws?

Care to try again?

What are those missteps you speak of? Just one, please. Just one honest criticism from the sage of the age would be wonderful.

[PA Democrat]

130. Obama's only flaw according to ProSense is that his supporters are insufficiently supportive!

Priceless.



Groupthink, anyone?

[JackRiddler]

180. That's one of the best ever.

Typical politician answer.

My flaws?

Well, see, I work too hard! I might tire myself, sometimes!

I care too much! I never rest in my caring!

I love my country too much!

[Vinnie From Indy]

120. So we, as you offer, should just give the NDAA a chance?

Do i have that correct?

[SwampG8r]

289. no no nothing to see here folks

move along move along

[RetroLounge]

430. and the BOG is now here and complete

RL

[Cali_Democrat]

24. Under the hope mobile you go, Harry.

Stay in line or get run over!

[CakeGrrl]

348. The "hope mobile", eh?

Some of you are really letting your true attitudes toward other DUers show!

Critics can be criticized too, like it or not.

[Cali_Democrat]

390. Of course the critics can be criticized

and so can Obama

[Ron Green]

27. I agree with Harry Belafonte, and I suggest

that people blithely dissing him in this thread (e.g. referring to the "Banana Boat" song) don't have a clue about who he is and what he's stood for all these years.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

106. You're right. Never underestimate the depth of ignorance.

[Nay]

298. Howling ignorance, indeed. Even here on DU, the lack of knowledge (or even the skill to look

up something on Wikipedia) astounds me. Now, I haven't looked up Mr Belafonte on Wikipedia because, like a lot of DUers here, I LIVED through the civil rights era and am well aware of how Mr B put himself out there for the good of society, and how that society back then could be pretty damned nasty to black people who stuck their necks out.

And that's another point -- even Wikipedia can't give you the feeling of the times, the nasty emotions that could boil over into killing, etc. Only if you live through it or are extremely empathetic could you "get" just what Mr B. and others endured. That is lacking in many posts here -- and is probably one reason why the human race seems doomed to do the same insane shit century after century. Few can seem to learn from others' experiences; they have to suffer it directly.

[woo me with science]

28. Harry Belafonte speaks the truth. K&R

I never thought I would see our country in this place.

[Swede]

29. Obama = Bush

For the ten thousandth time.

[JackRiddler]

37. 10,000th time? Really? From one of Obama's champions in the

2008 election? Do you see a distinction? Have 10,000 celebrities who fought for him in public switched to "Obama = Bush"? If they have (which they haven't), don't you see a reason to consider why?

[JackRiddler]

34. Why the swarm? Why can't people just disagree with him?

To summarize the negative responses:

lost his mind
Fool
short a bunch of bananas
hahaha!
"pull the lever for the mittster"
derangement from gonorrhea (hidden, at least)
idiot
Republican

And not a single one of the above says more than what I've conveyed. Eight hit and run posts, as the first posts on this thread, and none of them bothers with a point. A display of meaningless slander -- against a beautiful artist, a hero of the Civil Rights movement, a target of FBI harrassment, a man willing to take risks, a man who has never stopped fighting the good fight over the last 60 years time. And it's coming from posters who apparently imagine that their responses somehow support the president. Anyone exploring this site who walks into this thread will think it's juvenile sour-grapes rhetoric, at best. Many will decide it's an unpleasant place and go away, without returning.

So my question to the eight of you: What do you think you're doing?

One of the subsequent negative responses does stand out from the rest: ProSense arrives with a familiar, unrevised cut-pasta selectively listing (and exaggerating, or inventing) things Obama has done, a couple of which are true and good. This evades relevance, switches the discussion to Obama's supposed character rather than actions ("Belafonte would have people believe Obama is without a soul" - ridiculous!), and omits any and all of Belafonte's grounds for criticism. But by comparison to the above, it looks like the veritable act of a statesperson.

The swarm must stop!

[ProSense]

39. I

Why the swarm? Why can't people just disagree with him?

<...>

One of the negative responses does stand out: ProSense arrives with a familiar, unrevised cut-pasta selectively listing (and exaggerating, or inventing) things Obama has done, a couple of which are true and good. This evades relevance, switches the discussion to Obama's supposed character rather than actions ("Belafonte would have people believe Obama is without a soul" - ridiculous!), and omits any and all of Belafonte's grounds for criticism. But by comparison to the above, it looks like the veritable act of a statesperson.

...disgreed with him (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=158475), but I see that wasn't enough for you to avoid a personal attack.

[JackRiddler]

53. Not personal.

I don't know you and don't speculate about you as a person. The quoted matter relating to your post is about your post.

Original:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=158628

[ProSense]

119. Well,

One of the negative responses does stand out: ProSense arrives with a familiar, unrevised cut-pasta selectively listing (and exaggerating, or inventing) things Obama has done, a couple of which are true and good. This evades relevance, switches the discussion to Obama's supposed character rather than actions ("Belafonte would have people believe Obama is without a soul" - ridiculous!), and omits any and all of Belafonte's grounds for criticism. But by comparison to the above, it looks like the veritable act of a statesperson.

...since you believe that the information here (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=158475 ) aren't actions, I'm not sure this will qualify as action: http://www.democraticunderground.com/100249786

I mean, I'm not debating that Obama lacks a "moral compass" because I find the statement absurd. I did state why I disagree with Belafonte's comment.

[JackRiddler]

123. Yes. To say as you did that

"Belafonte would have people believe Obama is without a soul" is ridiculous. Belafonte didn't say that and it is a false representation of what he did say.

[ProSense]

125. Oh

"Belafonte would have people believe Obama is without a soul" is ridiculous. Belafonte didn't say that and it is a false representation of what he did say.

...please. It's my opinion that no "moral compass" = no soul. It wasn't a "false representation," it was my opinion.

You can disagree, but it's still my opinion.

[PA Democrat]

133. I'd suggest consulting a dictionary first

before you use your erroneous "opinion" to put false words in Harry Belafonte's mouth.


moral compass: anything which serves to guide a person's decisions based on morals or virtues

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral+compass

[ProSense]

135. It's

I'd suggest consulting a dictionary first

before you use your erroneous "opinion" to put false words in Harry Belafonte's mouth.

moral compass: anything which serves to guide a person's decisions based on morals or virtues

...still my opinion based on my interpretation, but may I suggest you do the same:

the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans...the spiritual part of humans regarded in its moral aspect...the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/soul

[PA Democrat]

136. Not a definition for moral compass. You linked to the definition of SOUL,

which Harry Belafonte did not use. Want to try again with another bogus link?

[ProSense]

139. Hmmm?

"Not a definition for moral compass. You linked to the definition of SOUL, which Harry Belafonte did not use. Want to try again with another bogus link? "

Will another "bogus link" convince you that the interpretation was mine and that the term "soul" was my opinion?

I mean, you suggested I consult a dictionary because you reject my associating the terms. Now you want to also reject the definition that I used to make my assessment by claiming the link, the same dictionary you used, is "bogus"?

Ridiculous.

[PA Democrat]

158. Hmmmm, indeed.

I asked about the definition of moral compass, you posted the definition of the word soul without disclosing that little tidbit.

It bothers me deeply, that you seem to have a penchant for putting words in other people's mouths in order to portray them in the most unflattering light. That's what you did by substituting the word "soul" for "moral compass". The terms DO imply two very different things.

[ljm2002]

205. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral+compass

Please see this entry for "moral compass":

Main Entry: moral compass
Part of Speech: n
Definition: anything which serves to guide a person's decisions based on morals or virtues
Example: Hopefully, the lawyer has a moral compass.

This definition makes no reference to the soul.

also, from http://thesaurus.com/browse/soul, the entry for "soul":

Main Entry: soul  [sohl]
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: psyche, inspiration, energy
Synonyms: anima, animating principle, animation, animus, ardor, bosom, bottom, breast, breath of life, cause, conscience, courage, disposition, ego, elan vital, essence, feeling, fervor, force, genius, heart, individuality, intellect, intelligence, life, marrow, mind, nobility, noumenon, personality, pith, pneuma, principle, quintessence, reason, recesses of heart, secret self, spirit, spiritual being, stuff, substance, thought, vital force, vitality, vivacity
Antonyms: body

Hmmm, no mention there of "moral compass". Although in fairness, I would not equate many of these synonyms with "soul" either (ego, feeling, fervor, and several others). But then again, if you had seen one of these words used it is unlikely you would have immediately gone for the "soul" synonym as you did for "moral compass".

I'd say that while the terms are not unrelated, neither are they synonyms. It appears to me that your leap from "he has no moral compass (or, more accurately, "he does not use his moral compass&quot to "he has no soul" is based on an understanding of the meaning of the term "moral compass" that few share.

[Bluenorthwest]

213. He did not say what you claim. Disgusting tactic, and to use it against a flat out

treasure of our culture and political history is really appalling. Just amazing that you think this tripe honors the President.

[ProSense]

224. What

He did not say what you claim. Disgusting tactic, and to use it against a flat out

treasure of our culture and political history is really appalling. Just amazing that you think this tripe honors the President.

...is with the hyperbolic expressions of outrage claiming that my opinion, my interpretation of what the implications of his statement, is the same as saying he said it? He said "moral compass." I interpreted as "soul" with a similar meaning: guiding core, principle, compassion, etc.

If you don't mind and regardless of his role as a "treasure of our culture and political history," I disagree with Belafonte's characterization of President Obama.

I find the comment absurd, and the hyperbole "disgusting."

[Bluenorthwest]

335. Then just disagree with it. What you did was rewrite what he said, then you disagreed with

what you wrote, not what he said. If you take exception to a person's words, take exception to the actual words they spoke. If you need to rewrite and place stronger words in place of what he really said, you are arguing not with his characterization, you are arguing with your own damn characterization of what was said.
The term 'moral compass' and the term 'soul' are not synonyms. Words are defined things, you do not get make up your own meanings for words without others correcting you, as we share a mutual language in which the words do mean things, specific things.
You claim to take offense at what Harry said, yet you claim he said what he did not say. That is a tactic for which I do not hold respect.

If you can not damn a man using his actual words, then his words are clearly not damning him. So you offer some words he did not say, and attempt to damn him with those words.
I reject false witness. Sorry if that sets you off. I respect my elders and those who worked hard to make justice for those of us who came later. I see that offends you deeply.

[hughee99]

44. Harry is an intelligent, well informed and wise, as long as he's saying things

we already agree with. Otherwise, he's an uninformed idiot, crazy, or a republican in some people's minds. I refer to this as the "Cindy Sheehan" effect, who was revered by our side right up until she started talking bad about Democrats too, at which time she had "lost her mind" and "her 15 minutes were up", but she was able to redeem herself and become intelligent and well informed when she started going after repukes again.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

48. Folks that are not fit to shine Mr. Belafonte's shoes --

To dismiss the man and his criticism in such a way -- it really just illuminates how bankrupt their objections are.

[Cameron27]

100. They're either very young,

or very ignorant, or so enarmored with one solitary politician out of Chicago, that they're willing to slash & burn any liberal ideal, any liberal writer & any liberal hero that might even slightly tarnish the image. What will they do in the vast liberal waste land they're bent on creating when Obama inevitably leaves the stage, I wonder.

[jefferson_dem]

173. Right!

Either a person subscribes to Belafonte's outlandish, unsubstantiated charge that "Obama has no moral compass" or he/she is young, ignorant, or can't handle any criticism of this Democratic President.

That. Settles. That.

[Cameron27]

208. No, sorry

attacking Belafonte as a fool, as being old, crazy or demented, as someone suffering from a venereal disease, and to dismiss him with the typical, condescending, trite expression, "bless his heart" demonstrates pure ignorance.

When someone has consistently been on the front line fighting for due process for all Americans, then expressing the belief that Obama has lost his moral compass is hardly outlandish or unsubstantiated. And he's earned the right to say it without being mocked.

Defend Obama's policies, if you can, but don't tear down the Belafontes of this world to do it.

[Mimosa]

202. Amen. It helps to remember what it was like during the late 1950s. n/t

[woo me with science]

60. This is the new DU,

and IMO people are not going to pay to be a part of this.

[Horse with no Name]

81. I just stopped in

and after this post, will bow out again.

[jefferson_dem]

181. If you're looking for a forum where unsubstantiated proclamations that the Democratic president

"has no moral compass" are followed by an amen chorus of pitchfork-weilding sycophants, I have a few in mind.

[woo me with science]

199. Nonsense. There are several attempts to discuss the moral implications of policy in this thread.

Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 03:20 AM - Edit history (3)

Not only is Mr. Belafonte's statement both clear and immensely powerful (and thus deserving of the recs and replies of simple agreement it has received), DUers on this thread have also referenced specific policies that have clear and disturbing moral implications. I have seen *no* attempts at substantive response.

Grant me the courtesy of not inviting me to leave this forum, and I will refrain from doing the same with you. Right now I will be frank with you; it is very painful to watch fellow Democrats defending policies such as indefinite detention and the targeting of American citizens for assassination, that we ALL agreed were morally abhorrent under Bush. It is disturbing to see the serial attacks on public figures, previously prized and defended as part of our own flock by Democrats, just because they dare to point out these moral outrages and inconsistencies.

Believe it or not, I do have some empathy for the frustration with posts criticizing Obama. When you are faced with the insane Republican field we see today, it is only natural to want to protect our candidate, and I do understand the mindset that says to focus on the positive and let the rest go. But we are in a deadly serious place in this country. We are losing our country, and egregious things are happening on this President's watch and by his hand, that he has the power to prevent. He did not have to sign NDAA, but he did. To me, that and other decisions reflect the loss (Americans must hope, temporarily) of a moral compass, which is why I recommended and responded in this thread.

Just as strongly and sincerely as you believe it is critical to focus on this President's strengths and avoid negative commentary in order for him to be re-elected this year, I believe strongly and sincerely that we are at risk of losing our country, and also that he may not even be re-elected, unless we do what he asked us to do: hold his feet to the fire, and push him back in the direction of being the President we all hoped he would be in November 2008.

[jefferson_dem]

216. Fair enough.

I appreciate your perspective (though I do not necessarily agree) and the well-intentioned spirit in which it is offerered.

[countryjake]

267. +1000

I think that you have hit upon the crux of the matter...it is extremely distressing to watch formerly strong democratic principles being abandoned, under the guise of blind party support, required election year fervor, obstruction by stubborn filibuster-threatening republicans, international terrorism, "safety" of our nation, or any of the other 1001 excuses offered for not holding firm to age-old Democratic Party values. Both that pain you've mentioned and that very real fear which we all should recognize and act on, NOW, not after Nov or when power is restored in Congress, are things that I and probably thousands of other party members feel concerned over. Once constructive criticism is ignored and eventually silenced, any organization crumbles and its leaders will also fall.

[G_j]

272. thank you

for taking the time for this post, I hope people will also take the time to consider your words, and your sincerity.

[PA Democrat]

300. Great points, and Harry Belafonte also acknowleged the daunting challenge of Republican opposition

that Obama has faced. Here's the what he said to explain how he felt Obama had lost his moral compass:

“I think he’s lost his moral compass,’’ says Belafonte. “I saw a lot of the same qualities that I saw in Bobby and Martin in Barack in the beginning. But I think he’s allowed the opposition to get the better of him. I think he thought it would be different and that it wouldn’t be such a huge fight for every issue. He lost some of his fight, and that’s how he lost his moral compass. He has to get that back if he wants to be the type of leader that’s remembered for real change.’’

I always like to see quotes in their complete context, but it seems that people who want to quash any criticism of the President will cherry pick and distort those remarks.

If people thought Harry was critical of Obama, they need to see what he had to say about Herman Cain, who was the GOP frontrunner at the time of the interview.

Last week, he called GOP frontrunner Herman Cain a “false negro” and despite Cain’s continued rise in the polls, continues to dismiss him and his campaign for president. “Any man who can say that poor people are poor and it’s their own fault is not a man to be trusted,” says Belafonte. “A man who feels people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps isn’t someone who needs to lead. Some people don’t even have boots to put on. So what is he talking about."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/16/harry-belafonte-on-his-life-obama-s-moral-compass-civil-rights-struggle.html

[sabrina 1]

383. Did he say 'has no moral compass' or 'has lost his moral compass'??

There is a difference. People do lose their moral compass, which they would have to have had to begin with.

He also says he hopes he regains it.

[paulk]

71. well said

and this thread has been a useful resource for additions to my ignore list. I'm tired of the hit and run crap.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

109. Good point. It's like flypaper catching them all at once. Now I've got some work to do.

[JackRiddler]

182. I've taken up your suggestion.

Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 11:03 AM - Edit history (1)

A whole set who not only swarm, but whom I've rarely seen say anything. I don't mean say wrong things, I mean make thousands of posts without saying anything at all. It's a great feeling to get them off my screen. Thank you!

[paulk]

292. unfortunately

it doesn't get the sock puppets

it's kind of like whack-a-mole

[SwampG8r]

290. i had only 9 of them

on my old list
it turned du into a nice place to discuss politics
but this thread will fill a new one for me

[Union Scribe]

78. Great post.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

107. How many of those negative responses are from James O'Keefe? We'll never know.

[just1voice]

108. You know the answer but I'll add my opinion

and attempt to explain the phenomenon. People become very attached to their beliefs, especially after repeating the beliefs to themselves 1000s of times. The entrenched beliefs are defended to ward off the classic "cognitive dissonance" -- mental pain -- that comes with trying to absorb conflicting information simultaneously. Basically, the person has "brainwashed" themselves. It happens all the time in all kinds of life situations, not just politics.

For instance, I recently lost a 10-year-old dog to cancer. When it was first diagnosed I didn't want to believe it, I thought my precious dog who looked completely healthy was fine and I literally thought the vet was lying just to charge a bunch of diagnostic fees. I was wrong and had "brainwashed" myself into thinking the dog wasn't old and wasn't sick. It took a while to realize the horror of the situation.

So, some people are a lot slower at accepting reality, everyone has their own speed.

[Mimosa]

198. Sounds like free Rethug comments re: stereotype of a black star from the 50s, 60s.

*SAD*

Mr. Belafonte was/is a kind smart gentleman. During the hardest times in the USA when Americans were fighting family members over kitchen tables, the Berrigan Brothers, Belafonte, Charleton Heston and many other 'stars' were leading the public.

In the South in our Catholic schools and churches our teachers lead us in civil rights songs. Some of our parents stood against the racist establishment. That's what taught me to question authority and rebel when authority stood for injustice.

[JoePhilly]

222. Can we say that "Harry lost HIS moral compass?"

Or would that be unfair?

Harry is not simply questioning Obama's policies, he is ATTACKING his character.

And those supporting Harry's very personal attack ... are they not a SWARM????

So yes, I agree, the swarm must stop.

Beginning with those who attack President Obama's character, like Harry did in this OP, and also "the swarm" supporting Harry's "negative attack" here.

Right?

[JackRiddler]

245. So let's review what you seem to be excusing.

The labels attached to Belafonte in the first few replies to this thread are:

lost his mind
Fool
short a bunch of bananas
hahaha!
"pull the lever for the mittster"
derangement from gonorrhea (hidden, at least)
idiot
Republican

Is this acceptable to you? Are saying this is equivalent to what critics of Obama say, are you saying that at worst it's only tit for tat? Really?

[JoePhilly]

369. Let's go item by item ...

lost his mind -- basically the same kind of personal attack as that made by HB

Fool -- basically the same kind of personal attack as that made by HB

short a bunch of bananas -- basically the same kind of personal attack as that made by HB

hahaha! -- not a personal attack.

"pull the lever for the mittster" -- not a personal attack

derangement from gonorrhea (hidden, at least) -- worse than attack of HB

idiot -- basically the same kind of personal attack as that made by HB

Republican -- same attack that lots of DU folks make about Obama, so you tell me if you think this one is wrong or not

So, of the set of items you listed, one is worse, 3 are basically the same, 2 are not personal attacks at all, and 1 is a common attack usually aimed at Obama (I think HB has called Obama this too btw)

[JackRiddler]

385. Inventory of an intellectual bankruptcy.

"You too" is not a magic spell that creates equivalence where there is none whatsoever. If Mr. Belafonte has delivered a moral indictment with which one disagrees, "ooga booga" plus "ha ha ha" is not an answer and reflects only on the speakers. Your attempted defense of this grade-school namecalling is the kind of performance that only team fans (or party spinners) can provide. This is not a game. Tell you what, after this thread I put you on ignore, and you do the same, and we're both happier for it. Okay?

[JoePhilly]

386. Cool ... I bet I'll like the folks on your ignore list.

But before you do ... a few points on the actual topic here ... You sent ME that list of items and asked if I thought they were the same. I responded to each one directly ... now you complain that I actually responded to the list. Odd.

A number of folks found Harry's claim that Obama "has no Moral Compass" ... to be ridiculous (I do as well). Some of them, responded in a variety of ways to indicate that sentiment (you provided a list). Clearly, you don't like how some of them responded. Too bad ... and welcome to the internet.

Now back to the "ignore" part ...

I always find it funny when some one feels the need to actually announce that they plan to ignore some one else.

Do you actually think I care? An anonymous person on the internet is going to put me *gasp* on their ignore list!!!!! The horror.

I do have to say that personally, I have never put anyone on ignore. I mean, what fun would that be?

My suggestion (which you can ignore)I is that f you want to ignore some one, just do so ... but the logic of announcing it escapes me ... perhaps before you send me to your own personal limbo you can explain the logic of such announcements.

Again, that is up to you.

[JackRiddler]

389. The announcement was meant as an offer.

I never put anyone on ignore before yesterday, and never announced it to anyone before now. But this thread provided too many examples of people I need never fear will, despite themselves, say anything interesting that I wouldn't want to miss. The reason to "announce" it is in the hope of inspiring you to make it mutual.

All the best!

[JoePhilly]

391. All the best to you also ... and no, I won't ignore your posts.

[bvar22]

343. No.

Mr Belafonte has said what he said
precisely BECAUSE he has NOT lost his Moral Compass.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[treestar]

404. The swarm is on those who disagreed

I've barely heard of him, so I'm only going on what he said. Your sainting of him is something I did not consider. It appears to hurt people's feelings if you do that and they happen to revere the person. But not everyone is going to consider that. It's a political board. And if an entertainer wants to use their "bully pulpit" on politicians, they will have to put up with the abuse. The politicians are used to it.

[Marr]

42. Amazing how quickly a "national treasure" can become an object of scorn around here.

When Bush was in office, Belafonte's remarks about our out of touch political class were universally applauded at DU. Suddenly he's just that "tally me bananas" guy. Just a senile old man who should really just shut-up.

Amazing.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

49. There's a LOT of that here these days.

I stand with Mr. Belafonte and the others who have dared to keep telling it like they see it regardless of who is on office.

[Dreamer Tatum]

83. Cult of Personality Underground nt

[kath]

254. Yep.

And it seems to be turning into DINO Underground, with the way that liberals are often so viciously excoriated here.

As roguevalley so aptly put it above: "I remember when a dem president would have cut off their hand before signing a law that allows Americans to be jailed, started with health care when the unemployment was double digit, offer up social security for cuts and allowed bush's tax cuts to live let alone have four more years... Some will never understand how things used to be and how PISSED some of us get with the quizling weasling of the politicians now over core Dem and Liberal issues."

Count me among the incredibly pissed.

[bvar22]

112. That is what happens in the absence of a Moral Compass.

People without one can turn on a dime.

People with a Moral Compass tend to remain consistent.
If it was BAD when Bush did it,
it is BAD when a Democrat does it too.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[a simple pattern]

132. Nicely done.

[woo me with science]

276. Well said. nt

[OnyxCollie]

293. Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.

[PA Democrat]

122. Amazing is too kind, Marr

I posted a link upthread to an interview Amy Goodman did with Harry Belafonte in 2011 on his civil rights activism. I'm going to post another link to the video along with the transcript:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/16/sing_your_song_harry_belafonte_on

I would encourage those making the insulting and dismissive comments educate themselves about Harry's contributions to the civil rights movement here and in South Africa.

It's one thing to disagree with a person's opinion, but the "tally me bananas," "idiot," "fool" types of comments when discussing a great civil rights activist are something I'd expect to see on Free Republic, not here.

[99Forever]

46. How dare Mr Belafonte speak...

.. truth to power? Under the bus with him!

[ProSense]

51. Cornel West on Fox:

<...>

HANNITY: All right, now on your radio program with Tavis, and I've known Tavis for many years. Our careers kind of got started at the same time together.

Harry Belafonte, not been a friend of conservatives, said Barack Obama does not deserve a second term. He lacks a moral compass. Do you agree with him?

WEST: No, no, not at all. When you look at Republican candidates, I must be honest, my brother, I see mediocrity. I see mean spiritedness toward the poor and I see too many of them not being for real.

It's one of the reasons why Ron Paul is doing so well. He, at least, is for real even though I disagree with him about 85 percent of the time, but there's no doubt that Barack Obama is much better than the Republicans.

My problem is that I just wish Barack Obama were even more intense in terms of his commitment to the poor and working people.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/01/12/hannity-clashes-cornel-west-over-cain-comment#ixzz1jGW9QMgh

It's going to be an interesting election year.

[Doctor_J]

79. Prof West says we should vote for re-election due to the Repuke stable of psychos

Hardly a ringing endorsement. He states that he wishes the president was

more intense in terms of his commitment to the poor and working people

Amen, and best of luck with that

[ProSense]

126. Hey

"Prof West says we should vote for re-election due to the Repuke stable of psychos"

...whatever works.

[grantcart]

131. I happen to see West on Hannity last night

They got along quite well. West was laughing and sharing stories with Hannity. They joked about Princeton.

Hannity was laughing about how his nephew couldn't get into West's class.

West found this hillarious and they enjoyed another several minutes of anti Obama banter.

Now the thing I had difficulty understanding is West is the one that is arguing for more confrontation.

And yet when he ends up on FOX he seems to be having a grand ole time and the only one he is confronting is Obama.

Strange.

[Doctor_J]

228. Posted by a fox "News" addict

you self-hating hate radio and fox folks really need your own forum

[grantcart]

239. so clicking through and seeing West on Hannity now qualifies as an addiction?

Interesting that you found my happening on a Fox show objectionable but West's effusive friendly exchange with Hannity not noteworthy.

I admire the folks here who can stomach FOX enough to give us updates.

Usually I am good for about 2 minutes.

But your position is that someone should be judged by what they read and see not what they think about the subject.

Interesting.

[SwampG8r]

291. hey now ...

i listen to limbaugh on my way to work
it does me the favor of telling me what the RW will be pushing that day
i dont like doing it and sometimes i have to turn it to the classic rock station but listen i do
i want to know what my enemies are up to
if i want dumbass american news i watch fox
if i want real news i go to the bbc

[xocet]

294. It is instructive to see how you have turned to Hannity and Fox News to forward your commentary.

Do you really want to assert that Sean Hannity has correctly summarized Harry Belafonte's statement?

Anyone who actually listens to Belafonte's statement (or reads it) knows that Hannity's characterization of it is false.

Why would you want to spread Fox propaganda?

9 January 2012
Harry Belafonte's Obama Disappointment Cut From Same-Day Rebroadcast

CALYPSO SNIP-SO
Belafonte's Anti-Obama Rant Removed From Sat Re-Feed

...

HARRY BELAFONTE: When I think of Barack Obama and I think about all that is at stake here I’ve really long since left talking about how many terms he will be as a president. My question is what legacy will he leave having had the opportunity to serve under such hugely dramatic circumstances and boggled the mind and boggled people’s thinking and had such a huge impact on the universal state of things.

And how could he have had such a splendid opportunity to do more than most presidents would have ever been able to do and he let that opportunity slip away from him. And I am very cautious of the fact of those who thinks that he has some hidden agenda and that if only he could be given a second term for us to see the new light new things will be revealed. A new efforts will be made to take us to a place other than where we have been and where we languish.

I just don’t trust that. I don’t think that a safe way an accurate way to look at the scenario. I think if there was the kind of moral compass serving Barack Obama in the way we had all hoped, the moral force would have helped him make choices. The absence of that force in his equations the absence of that barometer to guide him when he has to make these decision which are hugely complicated, especially from the political perspective. He should have come to the table with things that I think would have helped us in this moment of crisis.

...

http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2012/01/harry-belafontes-obama-disappointment.html

Here is the excerpted text of your post repeated with title information added and with the comments that you marked with boldface preserved:

Hannity clashes with Cornel West over Cain comment
Published January 11, 2012 | Hannity | Sean Hannity
Special Guests: Dr. Cornel West, Princeton University professor

...

HANNITY: All right, now on your radio program with Tavis, and I've known Tavis for many years. Our careers kind of got started at the same time together.

Harry Belafonte, not been a friend of conservatives, said Barack Obama does not deserve a second term. He lacks a moral compass. Do you agree with him?

WEST: No, no, not at all. When you look at Republican candidates, I must be honest, my brother, I see mediocrity. I see mean spiritedness toward the poor and I see too many of them not being for real.

It's one of the reasons why Ron Paul is doing so well. He, at least, is for real even though I disagree with him about 85 percent of the time, but there's no doubt that Barack Obama is much better than the Republicans.

My problem is that I just wish Barack Obama were even more intense in terms of his commitment to the poor and working people.

...

(http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/01/12/hannity-clashes-cornel-west-over-cain-comment#ixzz1jKHaOJKO)

I would bet that many a troll has been TS'ed for asserting that Hannity is a valid source of information.

[Robb]

63. Hm. Well, Harry's earned the right not only to have an opinion, but to shout it as loud as he cares

...to, in my book. More than any of us have, for certain.

I don't agree, but I respect him enough to listen.

[Romulox]

66. I don't always agree with Belafonte, but he has *earned* my respect as a powerful

thinker/speaker for social justice. This isn't something new for him.

[Evasporque]

67. There is a fine line between moral compass and moral collar and leash....nt

[EFerrari]

284. No, there really isn't. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

68. Morality, ethics, honesty, is something that politicians proclaim..but ignore.

[WI_DEM]

75. Well that is his opinion.

Just because it's Harry Belafonte who says it doesn't make it so.

[rug]

82. Lord, Lord, Stop the Carnival;

@ 3:10

[T S Justly]

85. I always liked Harry Belafonte. Now, I'm reminded why. K&R (nt)

[fascisthunter]

87. Too Much Truth in His Words

a shame people will crap on him for it. Actually, its pathetic...

"Don't think, just do as you are told."

[Jakes Progress]

89. Sure. Knock Harry. If honor, morality, and truth don't mean anything to you.

Then you can play like party is more important that principle.

[Ganja Ninja]

90. Spot on Harry. n/t

[uponit7771]

92. *****OP ONLY TELLS HALF OF WHAT BELEFONTE SAID*****

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002158034#post13

[xchrom]

93. yes, more of it was posted up thread.

part of the news here -- is that this portion was left un-aired.

[boxman15]

94. I disagree with him, but let's stop with all the hyperbole and under-the-bus-throwing. nt

[ProSense]

99. It's

actually fascinating. After days of making excuses for Ron Paul, people are actually trying to argue that Obama has no "moral compass."

It's supposed to be true and indisputable because Harry Belafonte said it.

[Octafish]

116. Are the same people making excuses for Ron Paul also arguing Obama has no 'moral compass'?

That might make a pattern we should pay attention to.

[ljm2002]

142. Where to start...

...first, WTF does Ron Paul have to do with the current topic, except as a convenient way for you to try and smear those of us who agree, at least to some extent, with Belafonte's remarks.

Apparently it is the use of the term "moral compass" that has people slavering with outrage. IMO Belafonte is talking about that grander purpose that guides our actions, and he is basically asking for stronger moral leadership that does not compromise on certain core values. I think it brings up an interesting question: where does pragmatism end and moral leadership begin?

Your final comment is typical flamebait that does not reflect anything said on this thread. You say, "It's supposed to be true and indisputable because Harry Belafonte said it", yet (a) there is no post saying this; and (b) you fail to recognize the irony of your statement, given that any criticism of President Obama is always met with amusingly predictable howls of outrage, from you and from others.

By the way, I do understand how the term "moral compass" and claiming that Obama doesn't have one, or isn't using it, would cause outrage from his strong supporters. But judging by the overall tenor of his remarks, I don't think he was trying to cast Obama as evil or even amoral; rather he is asking for stronger moral leadership from the President. One can disagree with his assessment, but his remarks deserve more analysis than latching onto one bit of terminology that is felt to be offensive. Within context, yes it is still harsh but does not imply that Obama does not have a moral compass, so much as that he does not use it as much as he should, in order to rise to a higher level of moral leadership. That's how I read it anyway.

[ProSense]

171. Ah

""Where to start......first, WTF does Ron Paul have to do with the current topic

...yes, the long rant rebuttal filled with strawmen. If you notice my comment was in response to another about "under-the-bus-throwing." It was a intended to show hypocrisy.

"Your final comment is typical flamebait that does not reflect anything said on this thread."

Really?

I said: It's supposed to be true and indisputable because Harry Belafonte said it.

I see a lot of comments about Belafonte being thrown under the bus and citing his background to rebut criticism.

Well, he's wrong.

By the way, I do understand how the term "moral compass" and claiming that Obama doesn't have one, or isn't using it, would cause outrage from his strong supporters. But judging by the overall tenor of his remarks, I don't think he was trying to cast Obama as evil or even amoral; rather he is asking for stronger moral leadership from the President. One can disagree with his assessment, but his remarks deserve more analysis than latching onto one bit of terminology that is felt to be offensive. Within context, yes it is still harsh but does not imply that Obama does not have a moral compass, so much as that he does not use it as much as he should, in order to rise to a higher level of moral leadership. That's how I read it anyway.

Yes, one can: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002158034#post23

Maybe you'd like to respond to that comment, which is a direct response to the OP.

[ljm2002]

190. The post you are referring to...

...does indeed talk about specific Obama policies, so in that sense it does at least address the substance of Belafonte's remarks. Although some of the items listed under "What was done right this year?" could be argued. But still -- not a bad list, and definitely germane to the topic at hand. Although it does not directly engage with any specific points in the Belafonte article, apart from the use of the phrase "moral compass".

Furthermore, you introduce your argument with this:

"I mean, Belafonte would have people believe Obama is without a soul."

This is not a true statement. There is no interpretation that I am aware of that would equate the statement "X lacks a moral compass" (or, more accurately, "X does not use his moral compass&quot , with "X does not have a soul". In fact your statement perfectly encapsulates the hysteria that criticisms of Obama often produce. By starting with that statement you set the frame for your post and make it combative from the gate IMO.

Belafonte was talking about the historical sweep. Of course Obama has done things, and many of these things are infinitely better than what would have occurred under any Republican. But where is the transformation? You cite health care and Wall Street reform as examples; however, these are not as cut and dried as you seem to imply. I clearly remember when single-payer advocates were EXCLUDED FROM THE DISCUSSION -- those views were not even allowed to be heard. I clearly remember when the second round of bailouts were disbursed to the banks, with no strings attached and little incentive to invest in Main Street.

Please understand: while I do feel disappointed with Obama in many ways, I am under no illusion that it is an easy job. He's good for the most part, just not the transformative figure that I and others had hoped he might be. He's still head and shoulders above the Republicans, and yes he has done many good things. None of that puts him above criticism though.

[ProSense]

193. Well,

Furthermore, you introduce your argument with this:

"I mean, Belafonte would have people believe Obama is without a soul."

This is not a true statement. There is no interpretation that I am aware of that would equate the statement "X lacks a moral compass" (or, more accurately, "X does not use his moral compass&quot , with "X does not have a soul". In fact your statement perfectly encapsulates the hysteria that criticisms of Obama often produce. By starting with that statement you set the frame for your post and make it combative from the gate IMO.

...I completely disagree: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=160481

Again, it's my opinion.

[one_voice]

102. Bless his heart.

[bvar22]

110. Obama's Army

[font size=5]Obama's Army, Jan. 21, 2009[/font]

[font size=5]"Oh, What could have been."[/font]


Opportunities like this one come only once in a generation.
Had president Obama chosen to STAND at the front of his ARMY and LEAD
with an overwhelming Mandate for Change
and big majorities in the House & Senate,
he could have been one of the Greatest Presidents EVER.


A mandate unused is a mandate wasted.
Had Obama called us to STAND with him on the steps of the Capitol for a Public Option,
or in the home towns of obstructionist Blue Dog Democrats,
MILLIONS would have answered the call.


Obama's Army is now marching without him.
How sad.
He coulda been a contender.

I share Harry Belafonte's disappointment.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Starry Messenger]

113. k&r

[Spazito]

145. I love Mr. Belafonte, love his music...

and his activism over the many years. I have great respect for him for his long history of activism and he has certainly earned his "cred" to speak his mind about President Obama or anyone/anything else, imo.

I also have great respect for President Obama and that will not change because of the opinion given by Mr. Belafonte in this interview.

[politicasista]

172. One of the best replies in this thread.

Peace.

[Spazito]

177. Thank you and ...

peace to you and yours as well.

[politicasista]

189. ...

TY.

[MadHound]

146. Wise words from a man who has far more cred than Obama does

In fact if it wasn't for people like Belafonte and so many others, Obama wouldn't be in the position he's in now, namely that of a center right, corporatist president who lacks the spine to fight.

But, since Harry dares to criticize Obama, under the bus he goes. Time to go put on Jump in the Line.

[Whisp]

150. far more cred than Obama?

when has Belafonte been leader of the US or any country? how can he 'have more cred' when he has no idea of a fraction of a clue what Obama has to deal with day to day, every day with the fucking hyenas on his back baying away? And then there are the repugnant republicans.

Matt Damon, now you're talking! He would fix all things everywhere with the snap of his fingers. And if he doesn't get it right the first time, why he can just CUT! retake it.

Oiy, talk about Clown Cars!

[MadHound]

155. You obviously don't know a damn thing about what Belafonte has done in his life

And frankly, being elected president doesn't give you much cred, look at Bush the Younger. It is what you do while in office that earns you the cred, and Obama hasn't done much. Need I remind you, this is a man who was awarded a Nobel Peace prize for simply talking about peace, not actually ending a war before he got the prize.

[Whisp]

161. this has got nothing to do with what 'he has done with his life'

I responded the way I did is because 'what he did with his mouth'

[MadHound]

162. Ah, but it is what he has done with his life,

What you do with your life is what gives you the cred to call a sitting president on the shit he's handing down. And frankly, Belafonte has cred aplenty, much more than Obama does, or ever will have at this rate. It isn't what you say that gives you cred, it is what you do.

[Whisp]

163. and if he said Obama was doing great

I'm sure you would agree with him on that too!

Clown Car Express, a new slimmer model with better mileage.

[MadHound]

164. I would certainly listen to what he has to say,

And treat what he says with the respect that he deserves. Would Belafonte's praise of Obama change my mind, maybe, maybe not. But it would certainly go a long way towards rehabilitating Obama's image in my eyes.

[JackRiddler]

174. See, here's the problem in what you do...

It's not just the fallacy in the first part of what you say (the projection, the assumptions).

It's this:

"Clown Car Express, a new slimmer model with better mileage."

What is that? What does it add? What does it even say?

Why can't someone answer back with this same meaningless thing? You say clown car, I say clown car, we trade ROFLs and the last one to post wins, right?

What a great discussion that makes. Or do you imagine it goes like this?

"Stupid!"
"No you - Stupid!"
"Bullshit"
"You Bullshit!"
"Bot! Batshit!"
"Crackpot! Ooga ooga!"
"Clown Car Express, a new slimmer model with better mileage."
*moment of stunned silence*
"Clown - ? Oh no. Sorry. No answer for that. You win."
"Win! Win! Win! Booyah!"

[harmonicon]

168. As someone else has already said, yes, he has far more "cred" than Obama.

Whithout Belafonte, there would not be a black president of the US.

[Whisp]

175. and someone else here already said

what you said is stupid and ridiculous and worthy of nothing.

Belafonte is responsible for Obama being President as much as my left foot.

but thanks for the laugh, I actually enjoyed that.

[harmonicon]

183. Enjoy your dream world.

Here in the real world - the one that's existed since before you and Obama were both born - Belafonte did a great deal in the advancement of civil rights in the US. Unfortunately, in your dream world where Belafonte didn't accomplish anything important, the US would possibly still be an apartheid state.

[fascisthunter]

204. Great Post

and I have to agree

[Bluenorthwest]

223. Did your left foot help fund the program that allowed Obama Sr to come to study in

the US, where he met the Mother of the President? Harry Belafonte did. So, unless your left foot did that, you are rather incorrect. And making a show of it as well. For the President, of course. You do this 'for the President'.

[Bluenorthwest]

325. I note that you did not answer me. Did your left foot fund the program that got

the President's father to the US for study? Or not?

[Whisp]

357. look, Belafonte has done a lot of positive things.

and my crit here is not about his life and deeds. It's about his piss poor choice of words about moral compasses. That is just plain stupid, but we all are allowed a few of those here and there.

[Number23]

192. "Whithout Belafonte, there would not be a black president of the US."

Truly the dumbest thing I've read today. Inane. Idiotic in the extreme. I'm sure even Harry Belafonte would not say something so deranged about himself.

Edit: And I can't help but note through my laughter that most of the people here saying "Harry has more cred than Obama" have NO cred themselves. This type of thread really highlights the disconnect here.

[Mimosa]

201. Without Sidney Poitier and Harry Belafonte to pave the way...

To Denzel Washington and other admirable role models...it is possible Barack Obama would not have risen to the US Senate so fast. Nor would he have been able to build upon the images black men before him had pioneered.

[Number23]

206. Laughable. Why not say without Jimmy JJ Walker there'd be no Obama either?

That premise is no less idiotic and mindless than the one you are currently pushing.

[Bluenorthwest]

219. An actual fact regarding this esteemed elder and the President's father:

"In 1959, Obama Sr. received a scholarship in economics through a program organized by nationalist leader Tom Mboya. The program offered Western educational opportunities to outstanding Kenyan students Initial financial supporters of the program included Harry Belafonte, Sidney Poitier, Jackie Robinson, and Elizabeth Mooney Kirk, a literacy advocate who provided most of the financial support for Obama Sr.'s early years in the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.

You can note that Mr Walker is not on that list. Draw your own conclusions. I want to tell you that you do not honor the President with this sort of tactic.

[Number23]

225. I wish to all that is holy that you would stop running around DU

and telling everyone that you disagree with that they "do not honor the president." It is truly one of the most idiotic tactics that you take and that is truly saying alot.

I am pleased that Harry Belafonte has done the things that he has done. I would never dishonor him. But the idea that because he helped financed Obama's dad in his educational pursuits that he is responsible or even one of the top 400 reasons that Obama became president is idiotic. SIMPLY idiotic. And YOU dishonor yourself and your ever present need to dishonor this president when you take such desperate tacks.

See? I can play that game too.

[harmonicon]

233. Obama's not a time lord, you know?

The point is, without Belafonte, Obama wouldn't have ever even been born. He's not some time traveler who started off as president and then went back an influenced his own father's life.

[Number23]

240. "without Belafonte, Obama wouldn't have ever even been born."

OH GOD! This just somehow gets more and more desperately stupid

So because Harry Belafonte funded the dad's education and Obama Jr. was born, if it wasn't for Harry Belafonte, Obama would never have been born and thus would never have become president. Forget the role that the man's parents played. Forget his hard work and determination instilled in him by his brilliant, unconventional mother. Forget the role that racism and prejudice and traveling the world had in instilling a sense of hard work and interest in the downtrodden.

It was HARRY BELAFONTE helping to pay for dad's education that caused Obama Jr. to become president. For the love of God, I wish you guys would drop this. You could not sound more unhinged if you were trying to.

[harmonicon]

244. Trust me. I'm not the one who sounds unhinged. nt.

[Number23]

249. Glad that you think so.

[Old and In the Way]

264. Well, I guess we should be blaming Belafonte for giving us Obama!

Thanks Harry! Why did you saddle us with a moral compass-less president?

[Bluenorthwest]

321. Here is the exact statement from that poster to which I responded with the Sr info:

"Why not say without Jimmy JJ Walker there'd be no Obama either? That premise is no less idiotic and mindless than the one you are currently pushing."
I simply informed him that Harry helped found and fund the program that got O Sr here to the US to study, and this is where Sr met Anne Dunham. Thus, Harry is one of a handful of people who literally paid for the President's parents to meet,,,,,
That poster yells at me and calls me 'idiotic' for informing him of what he did not know. Ironic.

[harmonicon]

332. Yeah, that's the one I was following up on. Sometimes the truth just hurts, I guess. nt.

[Bluenorthwest]

320. I think you should take your posts in this thread to your OFA office and ask them

if they think this is a way to honor the President. I think it is disgusting to exploit the President's name and office in order to indulge in destruction and slanders against a man who is an American treasure, who literally helped pay for the President's father to study in the US.
Anyone who'd funded my Dad's progress would get my honor and I'd sure not want people to shit on him thinking they were 'helping me'.
Feel free to take this thread to your OFA office. Send it to the WH and ask them if this is what they wish to see their 'supporters' say and do.
Or just read what DU is telling you here. Listening is key. Insults and name calling are the tactics of those who know they are wrong. Lashing out is not an argument.

[Bluenorthwest]

323. You seem offended that I taught you something you did not know....

Look. When you slander elders who were in any way helpful to the progress of a man's father, you are not honoring the man, nor the elders. You were equating Harry to Jimmy Walker. I pointed out a slight factual difference. So you respond with this? Personal attacks, name calling? I said attacking a man who founded the fund that paid Sr's way to the US is to dishonor the President with foul tactics as you are slandering a man who assisted the President's elders. That's my opinion. I'm not calling you 'idiotic' nor am I characterizing your actions. You are doing that to me. I do not take that kindly.
I knew something you did not know. You are attacking a man who helped O Sr directly. Thought you might actually want to know that.

[TheKentuckian]

413. Damn difficult for Obama to be President if he was never born

Very tough row to hoe, indeed.

Nearly as tough without the civil rights movement.

Just a hop to him actually being born in Kenya without an American parent.

Lots of critical pieces to the puzzle.

There isn't a definitive thing other than shrub wrecking such havoc and causing such consternation that electing a black guy who's name is often mistaken and/or wilfully conflated with the former #1 most wanted enemy of the state in this racist motherfucker.

[Mimosa]

220. What a stupid analogy/joke you have proposed

I am certain you weren't a teenager or even in middle school when MLK was marching in Selma.

It's hard to convey to younger generations what the civil rights movement was like. You can't possibly remember the burning of churches, the killings of Medgar Evers and Malcolm X. Or JFK and RFK. The 1960s were traumatic. That's how that time led to an era which was more open minded.

[_ed_]

310. Jimmy JJ Walker

didn't march at fucking Selma. Belafonte did.

Amazing how you can marginalize a civil rights hero just to stay on top of the 24 hour news cycle. Disgusting.

[Whisp]

359. and a lot of other marchers at Selma would not say

stupid things about stupid compasses like Harry did.

Lets add them up and see what the average is then. Or does Harry's words trump all the others out.

ridiculous beyond measure.

[harmonicon]

232. I agree that I, as a white man born in the 1970's, played no pivotal role....

in the civil rights movement. Belafonte, on the other hand, did. If he would not say so, it would be only because of his sheer grace and modesty.

[Number23]

243. "Playing a pivotal role in the civil rights movement" is WHOLE 'NOTHER ANIMAL

from saying "there would have been no black president without Harry Belafonte."

One of those is a statement of truth. The other sounds like the ravings of a loon and almost hysterically ignorant as well as simply stupid.

[politicasista]

148. He has a right to his opinion, though....

respectfully disagree with his critique of the POTUS. He has already accomplished more than his predecessors given the mounting death threats and a gridlock Congress.

[1stlady]

191. Harry is an idiot

I'm sorry, I don't care that he marched with Dr King. Just because you marched with MLK doesn't make your perfect. Obama has done more in his first two years than any president in recent history. If you don't like Obama, go campaign for Mittens and the other clowns, its quit simple.

[Bluenorthwest]

221. I wager Harry can count to three...

The President's tenure thus far is three years, not two.

[EFerrari]

250. He did a lot more than march.

And any Obama supporter who calls someone like Harry Belafont an idiot is not doing Obama any favors.

[_ed_]

311. "I don't care that he marched with Dr King"

That's all I need to know about you.

[PA Democrat]

403. You are embarrassing yourself. Belafonte did much more than just "march with MLK."

He provided much funding that made MLK's work possible, funded the freedom riders, and much more. Why don't you take the time to educate yourself.

http://www.jamaicanjournal.com/index.php/2010/02/18/harry-belafonte-s-work

[HuckleB]

194. I love Mr. Belafonte, and I am disappointed in many of Obama's acts.

Still, we all say a lot of things. And...

[Mimosa]

195. How dare Harry criticise the President!

Old Harry has no idea what the young whippersnappers had to go through. His generation had things easy! *grr*

Whiney old calypso singer!

[unkachuck]

215. K&R....n/t

[Wistful Vista]

231. Who ghost-wrote that? He never had the brains to compose anything like that.

[EFerrari]

247. You obviously know nothing about the man. Embarrassing.

[Wistful Vista]

402. Well, I suppose you're right and so is he...Obama has no moral compass.

happy now?

[EFerrari]

405. I'm not compelled to have emotional responses to statements of fact. Are you?

[Wistful Vista]

411. I'm not compelled by anything. Are you referring to Belafonte's "statement of fact"?

I like our president, I don't much give a fuck what some old has-been/never-was entertainer says.
\
on edit: I am not by any stretch a kneejerk defender of EVERYTHING Obama says or does, I have no problem with legitimate criticism, but that idiotic "no moral compass" stupid shit just raised my ire way above "full". That's all I'm saying. Having a popular song a thousand years ago does not confer political wisdom on anyone.

[_ed_]

312. Are you so fucking ignorant

that you don't realize that Harry Belafonte was a close friend of Dr. King, and marched at Selma, among other places?

I guess you don't have the brains to even use wikipedia before you shit all over a civil rights era hero.

[DonCoquixote]

236. Let me be honest

Yes, criticism of Obama is good, holding his feet to the fire is good, the fact that harry feels he can say things are good.

That being said, there are a bunch opf critics who never, ever, from second one, meant to give an honest critique of Obama.

They range from Ted Rall, who is right now advocating the violent destruction of America while slamming the idea of non-violent protest as a "riduclous fetish" that will be" laughed at."

http://www.rall.com/rallblog/page/8

They range from Jane Hamsher, who insisted that she did not oppose Obama on racist grounds, yet used Blackface, something that even Rush Limp-Paw knows is outright stupid:

http://www.angryblacklady.com/2010/12/19/firedoglake-sheer-idiocy-soupcon-of-racism/
http://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/jane-hamsher-is-a-parasite-on-the-democratic-party-and-the-progressive-movement/

To say nothing of getting paid by GOP operatives:
http://rootedcosmopolitan.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/jane-hamsher-republican-consultant/

and of course making an alliance with Grover Norquist, which helped the little troll get media time he later used for great effect.

Now, let me be clear who I am NOT talking about: if you are a teahcer mad at Obama's education policy, or a LGBT mad that Obama buckled, that is one thing, but if you ALSO,

note the word ALSO, as in "in addition to" as in a second condition that takes place,

if you ALSO ignore the fact that there are people trying to hitch their wagons to you and you cheer them on, then you are allowing the GOP to use you as a pawn, a game which they perfected in 2000 and 2004, elections they never could have won, but that we LOST, because we sought to have a perfect ideal handed to us, insetad of building our castle from the ground up. I do have to give the GOP one kudo, unlike US, they realize that you need to start somewhere, that is why, even after the sheer unholy orgy of venom and backstabbing that the GOP convention will be, they will get together, and make sure whover has the R in their name wins.

To paraphrase Voltaire: I will fight for the right to criticize, regardless of if I agree or disgree with you. However, if you also deny that much that is sold as honest criticism is indeed outright treachery, then I can and will weigh that when you criticize.

[JackRiddler]

248. You sure showed that Belafonte.

[demgrrrll]

253. I like Harry Belafonte He has a right to say whatever he wants to say.

Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 03:13 AM - Edit history (1)

Having said that I agree with your last quote which I think is very appropriate. Very recently there was a great HBO documentary about Harry Belafonte and all the good he has done in the world. I think that he did not attend the inauguration in 08. I think he felt there were some fundamental differences that he could not ignore and chose not to attend. My compass is that I think whatever he says or does he does from the heart and what he feels or believes is his business. Before I watched the documentary I was really unaware of just how much he has done for the causes of human rights all over the world. He said something interesting, he said after the civil rights era "we blinked". Interesting phrasing and very accurate. I think he is passionate about human rights and I have a great admiration for him regardless about how he feels about the President.

One of those fan Grrrls!!! oh yea.

[Better Believe It]

251. Is it now time to bash Harry Belafonte? Under the bus with him! Join the crowd!

[Karmadillo]

252. Sad & very, very true.

[joshcryer]

256. Oh Harry, another one who thought Obama was a populist.

Such naivety.

[EFerrari]

260. May 16, 2011 And to those who say, "If you want President Obama re-elected, you will undermine him

AMY GOODMAN: And to those who say, "If you want President Obama re-elected, you will undermine him if you criticize him; and consider the alternative"?

HARRY BELAFONTE: I think we will not only undermine him, but undermine the hopes of this nation, if we don’t criticize him. Absence of protest in the times of this kind of national crisis — Theodore Roosevelt once says, "When tyranny takes over the national agenda, it is that time that the voices of protest must be awakened. And if you don’t raise your voice in protest, you are a patriotic traitor." And I believe that patriotism is betrayed by those voices that are not heard. Those who would distract you from that fact are those who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Nothing will happen but good for Barack Obama and the United States of America, and indeed the world, if everybody stepped to the table and said, "This is the course we must be on."

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/16/sing_your_song_harry_belafonte_on

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

324. For the 100-millionth time: NO ONE IS TRYING TO STIFLE CRITICISM!!!

We have a right to disagree with that criticism and voice that disagreement!!

Please stop this nonsense!

[EFerrari]

337. Lmao. "NO ONE IS TRYING TO STIFLE CRITICISM. Now, stop this nonsense."

Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[bvar22]

349. <Gasping for air LOL>

Worthy of Saturday Night LIVE satire,
but it is REAL!


No one is telling you what to do!
Now Get Off My LAWN!!!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

350. Nothing really to laugh at. The self-victimization is really tired. Indeed, it's pathetic!

And that's not funny at all. It's rather sad.

[EFerrari]

376. Now you're going to tell me what to laugh at, too?

LOL

Hilarious. Next, "Stifle yourself, Edith".

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

380. Victimhood again. "Now you're telling me..."

*yawn*

[EFerrari]

396. Do you even read your own posts?

LOL

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

397. Yes, I do and I think they're pretty damn good.

Have a good weekend, EFerrari.

It's been real.

[EFerrari]

398. I don't think casual even if hilarious name calling is good for anyone

and especially not for DU at this moment. You obviously operate under a different set of priorities, in your greater wisdom, the one where your rhetorical gestures are the responsibility of your unfortunate audience.

lol

[jefferson_dem]

378. Any and all criticism of this President from supposed "progressives" must go unchallenged...

It's simply Un-'Mercan, don't ya know?

Only amen-Hallalujia-choruses permitted.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

379. WRONG!! I can't speak for others, but that's not where I am.

Again, self-victimization where it is unnecessary.

[jefferson_dem]

381. Um...

I was being sarcastic. Perhaps I didnt' make it obvious.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

382. Oops! Sorry. :)

Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 05:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Just trying to understand why people resort to victimhood when their views are challenged, accusing others of trying to keep them from expressing themselves. It's getting worse than what the people on The Right do.

They have a right to an opinion and to express themselves. And we have a right to disagree. Voicing that disagreement does not equal trying to "stiffle dissent" or "rah rah rah," or whatever nonsense they put forth.

It's ridiculous. With the number and volume of anti-Obama threads that are allowed on DU day after day, I'm still waiting for evidence that there is some Facist Pro-Obama Syncohantic Regime that has been successful at shutting down debate.

[jefferson_dem]

387. Ridiculous indeed.

I find it remarkable that, in this case, the outlandish anti-Obama charge (that he has no "moral compass&quot is not even defended.

...Instead, the one who promoted it is deserving of some protected "legacy" status based on his biography...or something.

[RetroLounge]

432. NO ONE IS TRYING TO STIFLE CRITICISM!!!

Where The F have you been?



RL

[Old and In the Way]

265. I so forward look to seeing $50MM worth of Harry Belafonte ads from Mitt Romney

telling us about Obama's lack of a moral compass. Thanks Harry!

[G_j]

274. I truly believe MLK Jr. would agree with him if he were alive today.

If you don't think so, listen to his "Beyond Vietnam" speech.

[countryjake]

282. Mr. Belafonte has thrown the racist-right into a quandary...

For years they've been firing attacks at our prez, smarmy barbs of "commie-pinko", "terrorist-loving", "reverse-racism". Now, suddenly they are confronted with this wise, warranted criticism of a leader they despise because of the color of his skin...whatever shall they do? Agree, repeat, and stand with Harry? Just wait til they find out exactly what Mr. Belafonte stands for and has fought for throughout his entire life! Their ignorance is my bliss!

I cannot wait to shove this right back down the throats of the bastardly bigots who would undo every Civil Rights-related act, if they were given half a chance.

Thank you, Mr. Belafonte!

President Obama would be wise to weigh those words carefully and try to reach an understanding of why the honest people of this nation feel so disappointed, desperate. History can make Obama, too, if only he allows it to.

[1stlady]

295. The Banana-Boat singer

better be lucky we're under a president he can speak out against at all. Remember what happened to the dixie chicks under Bush??? I don't understand why these so called progressives are so angry. Obama never campaigned as a far left progressive, he was a moderate democrat. Furthermore, I don't recall any of these progressives attacking Bill Clinton. And Lord knows he was no progressive, he's to the right of Obama. To try and call out Obama without mentioning the rethugs obstructionism, downright unAmerican politics by rethugs goes unmentioned.lol Can republican obstructionism be morally justified? What a joke, no wonder rethugs are so successful, they never get the blame.

[Fumesucker]

301. Telling snark, satire and parody from honest commentary has become impossible..

I honestly don't know what category to put your post in, you rang so many cliches in one paragraph that snark is by no means impossible but I get the feeling you're being straightforward.

Oh, and welcome to DU..

[EFerrari]

334. i think the appropriate respone is, "Bingo!"

[MinervaX]

303. When you have to hold up George W Bush's Presidency

to shine a good light on Obama's Presidency, you've really already lost the argument.

[tpsbmam]

308. I'm thoroughly disgusted with the ignorance on this thread. THOROUGHLY!

Is there no one those who fervently support Obama won't trash. Are you fucking kidding me.....HARRY BELAFONTE!!!! Holy shit, you're trashing one of the people responsible for Obama being president!

Yes, that's right. He's one of the people responsible for Obama being where he is today. For, without Harry Belafonte, his close courageous friends, and the people who fought at their own peril for the civil rights Obama enjoys today, he'd never have been elected to the presidency as an African American, or whatever people might be calling blacks in America at this point.

Harry Belafonte was part of the core group fighting civil rights. He and MLK were close, close friends. Here's how close -- this is a picture from MLK's funeral, with Coretta Scott King sitting next to HB.




Harry was one of the primary planners of the historic March on Washington. He helped to plan numerous demonstrations (and he was there, too, for many of them), gave TONS of his own money and raised TONS of money to finance the civil rights movement. He put his own life and his own career in jeopardy with all of the things he did. He was a civil rights activist before he was a performer and he remains an activist today. Paul Robeson was his mentor, and he joined with Paul in the courage both had to face down daunting discrimination & hatred in white America. Robeson paid dearly -- he was blacklisted, had his passport confiscated, and more. And Harry paid, too.

Harry Belafonte was one of the primary people to push JFK & RFK into being the strong advocates of civil rights that they became. They'd been indifferent to the movement until Harry and others pushed them.

Harry Belafonte has every right to voice his opinion about Obama. He has every right to talk about Obama's moral compass. We all have that right but HB has EARNED that right!

And yes, you all have the right to post the ignorant, right-wing'ish, disgusting things you've said here about Mr. Belafonte.

Those of you who trashed Harry Belafonte should be ashamed of yourselves. Go bloody well educate yourselves about the civil rights movement and you'll find this man at the core of it.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

417. I'm pretty sure they don't know who Paul Robeson is either,

but good post.

[tpsbmam]

420. Thanks. It's their great loss....this incredible man's life embodies the history of the country

He moves me and empowers me like few do. In this one man, I hear and see the agony of the slave, the courage of those who fought the gravest injustices this country ever perpetrated, the pain & sorrow of those who have been ravaged throughout history and the determination to prevail.

These two songs say it best for me. Partially because I know PR's history, Robeson brings tears to my eyes with both songs. Every. Single. Listen.

And, fortunately, there are progressives who aren't clueless about the great Paul Robeson and his contributions to the world! Someone set a Wisconsin "union busting" protest to Paul Robeson singing Joe Hill.

Thank god there are progressives who DO know the debt we all owe Paul Robeson, Harry Belafonte and others whose names aren't the men & women of the civil rights movement known to pretty much everyone (e.g., MLK, Rosa Parks).

What I see here is truly disgusting!

[BklnDem75]

314. I respect ya, Harry, but neither agree with nor respect your insult

Walking with Dr. King doesn't give you insight on anyone's moral compass, so stop pretending. Try not to be another black face for the haters to parade around. You're only useful as long as you say something they like.

[LanternWaste]

315. From 'fool' to 'lost his mind' to 'a republican'...

From 'fool' to 'lost his mind' to 'a republican'-- the labels Belafonte is given simply because the opinion is different.

How very rigid and dogmatic to perceive the world through such a myopic process of thought -- much like the late night cable televangelist who lashes out at those who criticize his most sacred of cows, and follow up with petulant rationalizations. Substantive in both thought and word, or simply a visceral reaction to our idolatry?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

318. I wish people would avoid exploiting MLK, Jr. to shield themselves from criticism or to support

their position.

It's disgusting when people on the Political Right claim that Dr. King is their hero, or they marched with Dr. King so they can't be racist. They even claim that Dr. King would be a Republican were he alive today.

It is equally disgusting when people on the Political Left use Dr. King to prove a point or shield themselves from criticism. Harry Belafonte is unquestionably a Civil Rights Movement hero and icon. But just because that is the case, or because he marched with Dr. King or was an activist on civil rights issues doesn't mean that his opinion is automatically right or that no one can criticize him.

Again, it's is equally abhorrent when the Left does it, not to mention offensive.

That some of us disagree with Harry doesn't mean that he will be "thrown under the bus," a phrase that is as tired as my right big toe. It doesn't mean that we no longer love or revere Harry Belafonte. It simply means that some of us disagree with him.

To exploit Dr. King in this way is irresponsible.

I am kindly asking people to stop!

Using Dr. King doesn't prove your point or make it any more valid.

[EFerrari]

342. This thread is not filled with loving, reverent disagreement. nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

354. I hope you included yourself in that because you've contributed to that discourse.

[Cameron27]

361. That's what you've gotten from this thread?

You've got your back up because you see people using MLK & Bellafonte to "shield themselves from criticism or to support their position."

Seriously? Because what I'm seeing are people jumping in to defend a civil rights icon against an onslaught of the kind of verbal character assassination that would make a RWer blush. Where's your condemnation of that?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

364. They can defend Harry Belafonte on Harry Belafonte's OWN merits! No need to use Dr. King

for that. Harry's own record, triumphs, and philosophies are his own. They are two separate men. Both great in their own right.

But why not just focus on Harry's thoughts? Why exploit Dr. King like so many on The Right do?

[EFerrari]

399. I don't have to include myself in what you claim for yourself, nope. n/t

[G_j]

353. I have an opinion

as stated above, that MLK Jr. would agree with Mr. Belefonte, though no doubt choosing his own words. Dr. King has always been a guiding light for me, and this is my honest opinion. For example, I believe his heart would be broken over the countless drone strikes and our continued military conduct in Afghanistan. I think Dr. King's words lend substance to my opinion.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

358. You have an opinion, and that's fine. You're entitled to it. I've kindly asked, however,

that people stop using Dr. King to make a point.

The issue here is what Belafonte has stated. That is what is being discussed.

[G_j]

360. though they were close friends

fighting for causes they both believed in.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

363. Close friends. Two different men.

[1stlady]

384. THIS!!!

I wholeheartedly agree, even Ron Paul used MLK to shield himself from being labeled a racist. I'm sure if he were alive today he would call these folks out on the left and the right and he definitely wouldn't be attacking Obama of all people.

[EFerrari]

454. So, everyone but you should not use Dr. King to make a point?

I love these threads. They're hilarious.

[tpsbmam]

421. I have no problem with respectfully disagreeing with the man. That is NOT what's happening here!

Last edited Sat Jan 14, 2012, 02:14 PM - Edit history (1)

And you know it. The degree to which this man has been trashed on this thread is revolting.

And here's my proof -- here are some of the comments made about Harry Belafonte upthread:

"Harry has lost his mind"

"No, he's just doing the KISS thing. Keeping it simple, stupid" and then goes on to say Harry doesn't understand the complexity of Obama's presidency.

"Fool."

"maybe someone should tally his bananas, I think he's short a bunch"

"The gonorrhea has spread throughout his brain, poor man." (Hidden by a jury, but only by a 4-2 decision.)

"Mr. Belafonte is an idiot. The Matt Damon of the calypso world."

"Harry is confused about how the system works" Yeah, right, this man who's known & worked with presidents and leaders since Kennedy. Even before Kennedy, in 1958 "Harry Belafonte [led] a delegation of student leaders to the White House to meet with President Eisenhower. They [were] turned away, neither the President nor any of his assistants or aides are willing to meet with pro-integration students." Oh, and that's from a civil rights movement timeline. But according to this DUer, he's some kind of simpleton who doesn't understand how the system works. Riiiiiiight!

"Harry is a singer. He is likely not a constitutional scholar. I bet he cannot identify the top 10 Supreme Court cases or US statues on any given subject, nor can he apparently figure out that the most moral president in the world doesn't get his way entirely." Once again, Belfonte is a simpleton who doesn't know shit about the US, the Constitution, American history, the key Supreme Court decisions in the US......he was out there fucking fighting to make a few of those decisions happen! HE is not the one who sounds like a simpleton here!!

And I got tired of reading the crap at this point and moved back to post my edit. I'll only add here that you and others then post things like this, "Precious Harry can never be criticized. We get it." From an poster who's an avid Obama supporter. And it's pretty much a short version of what you said.

Excuse me, that is NOT what anyone said! What we criticized was the disgusting crap above.

And I, for one, am totally fed up with the disingenuous bullshit that gets thrown around here. It's clear if you read the thread that people are NOT objecting to disagreeing with HB -- disagree away. But I'll damn well criticize the ignorant, hateful, venomous bullshit that's been thrown out there about Harry Belafonte and many others who get trashed because they speak out about disappointments with Obama.

[ibegurpard]

331. agreed

[ProSense]

388. Obama

"sucks less" http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002163533

[cliffordu]

407. HARRY HAS A NEW MOVIE OPENING TODAY!!!!!!

NO SHIT.

look it up!!

[kneedeepinthehoopla]

441. What an elegant statement from an elegant man!

Of course he's right! The notion that Obama is somehow "weak" or "naive" is such a stretch that I can barely see straight. If Obama really had such a desire for "change," he would have used the Democratic majority in Congress to change the bejeebus out of this country and eff the supposed one-term threat. He wouldn't care if he didn't get re-elected because his chief aim was to end these illegal, immoral, bleeding-us-dry wars, getting SINGLE-PAYER installed (like Sen. Sanders managed to do in VT.!) and FORGIVE ALL STUDENT DEBTS!

[mzmolly]

446. Gosh, then it must

be so.

[AtomicKitten]

451. Zzzzzzzzz.

LOL.

[Honeycombe8]

452. Well, that's vague enuf for some to go on board. But for those who want to know...

exactly WHAT someone's complaints are about, it falls short. He didn't say exactly WHAT Obama did or did not do that Bellafonte wanted him to do, or not do, and why that was a moral decision, and why what Bellafonte thought he should do, or not do, was the right way to go, to the point that there was no other reasonable choice.

I just hate it when someone trashes a public figure without being specific. They use their public platform to put the screws to someone, w/o saying why. It's so easy to get people to follow you, if you have a public platform, I think. Matt Damon is doing the same thing, except Damon is being more specific. Obama didn't do what Damon wanted him to do regarding teachers and public education (his mom's a teacher).