Here's what happens when spineless Democrats refuse to fix problems:

[MannyGoldstein]

When triangulating becomes more important than delivering results, we get shit like this: Romney's family has money in Ohio voting machines.

Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company That Could Decide The Election Causing Concern

From fucking Forbes, no less.

Really great idea to stay away from making Republicans mad by keeping hands off their precious magic electronic voting.

Ken Blackwell will be laughing so hard and continuously from now through November 6th that he'll need a Foley cather to keep the place dry.

[Warpy]

1. We went ahead and made them mad here in NM

because the election theft in 2004 was blatant.

We got paper ballots statewide in 2005.

At that point, we ceased being any sort of battleground state.

Funny how that works.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Congratulations!

You folks have some brass!

I guess we get the government we deserve.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

3. Needs to be done nationwide.

CAN YOU IMAGINE if this was Obama who had such close and blatant ties to voting machines? This would be FRONT. PAGE. NEWS. and he'd be disqualified from the race immediately.

But since it's a fucking Republican - it's just fine & dandy.

[WCGreen]

29. That's why I vote absentee....

More people need to do so if you can...

[Ms. Toad]

36. In Ohio, absentee/early voting typically uses the same method of voting

as on election day. So unless you are doing absentee voting by mail, if your county uses DREs, you will vote on a DRE as an absentee/early voter.

But you have a right (even on election day) to use a paper ballot (in Ohio).

[WCGreen]

68. Early voting is actually going to the Board of Elections in your county to vote.

Absentee balloting is a ballot sent to you and you fill it out and send it back.

Early voting is not Absentee voting, two different things all together.

[Ms. Toad]

70. In Ohio, all early voting is absentee voting.

Last edited Sun Oct 21, 2012, 05:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Regardless of whether you go to the precinct or not.

There are several mechanisms for absentee voting (by mail, picking up a paper ballot at the polls, voting on DREs at the BOE). When you go to the precinct (rather than mailing an application form in) what you do is fill out the exact same request for an absentee ballot. If you are going to vote immediately rather than take a ballot home with you, you check an extra box. But shichever option you take, you are still voting absentee. I don't know how it is done elsewhere - but I do know the law in Ohio.

(In addition, I've been observing since Oct 2 and I've heard the BOE employees explain it over and over to people who insist they do not want to vote absentee. )

ETA: FAQ about Absentee voting - http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/elections/Voters/FAQ/AbsenteeFAQs.aspx

After absentee ballots are available for voting you may request and vote your absentee ballot in person by going to your county board of elections office or designated voting location.

[WCGreen]

81. Well, I vote absentee every election since 2000....

The ballots mailed leave a paper trail that are stored for up to 20 years.

I use to be on the Board here in Cuyahoga County. I was under the impression that those who actually voted early voted on machines located at the board of elections.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Ms. Toad]

82. Machines are one form of absentee voting

Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 11:14 AM - Edit history (1)

The law changed a few years ago to permit no fault absentee voting. However you vote early (entirely by mail, picking up a paper ballot and mailing it back, picking it up and filling it out in a single trip to the BOE receiving it by mail and hand carrying it into your BOE, or on the machines in advance of election day) is all absentee voting, from a legal perspective.

And the form confuses a lot of people because they hear early voting used colloquially, and some are almost confrontational when they are told they have to fill out the absentee ballot application form in order to vote on the machines at the polling place in advance of the election since they don't want to vote absentee, they want to vote early. They get cranky when they are told by the BOE that anything before the election is absentee.


I used the absentee/early voting as a concession to the colloquial use of the phrase "early voting" since that is how people commonly refer to casting a ballot before election day, even though legally it is all absentee voting - and to familiarize people with the "absentee" language that will be on the form when they go to vote in advance of the election.

[pa28]

4. I thought that was really interesting too.

You had some bizarre official and unverifiable results like we've seen in Georgia and Ohio and then you went back to paper.

Now NM is solidly blue.

How about that.

[truedelphi]

25. I remember seeing that in Fadiman's film about the election process

And how NM really figured it all out and got itself protected.

If only the whole nation would do that.

In any event, Congratulations!

[Warpy]

34. People here are still pissed off about 2004

and I've found NM Hispanos, especially, to carry grudges almost as long and vehemently as we Irish do.

[geardaddy]

89. We have paper ballots here in MN.

Thank dog!

[kath]

5. Aw, Manny, don'cha know that "Democrats'" have to follow the lead of our "Democratic" President and

reach across the aisle to play kissy-face with the Republicans. Things would just get too nasty if they didn't do that...

[MannyGoldstein]

6. After the Grand Bargain, Republicans will finally

realize that we're sorry for being mean to them. They'll realize that we're people they can do business with.

The Devil's business.

[blue neen]

7. You have the words "Democratic" President and "Democrats" in quotation marks.

What does that mean? Does that imply that he's not a Democrat or that we aren't Democrats?

...just need a little clarification. Thanks.

[uponit7771]

56. What do you mean by having the dems in quotes? Regards

[Egalitarian Thug]

8. K&R What could I add to the previous replies? It's almost as if there were only one agenda run by

a single faction creating an illusion of something or other.

[kath]

9. Aww, how can you even *think* that - this is the greatest democracy in the whole world!

USA! USA! USA!

[Egalitarian Thug]

10. You're absolutely right, I must have been possessed by evil, unpatriotic demons or something.

We're #1! We're #1! We're #1!

[kath]

11. You're supposed to say "I got my mind right, Boss".

Now behave yourself, hear?

[Egalitarian Thug]

13. You should see all the new scars I've got on my tongue from the last few months.

18 more days, just 18 more days...

OTOH, I'm giving our horse double lessons and making great progress.

[truedelphi]

26. Or as Jon Stewart has been chanting "Lord, Please make it stop."

Like you say eighteen more days. Eighteen more days.

And in a few minutes, it will only be 17 days before the sound and the furry stops.

[Egalitarian Thug]

31. ROTFLMAO! Not sure if it was great comedy or a typo,

but I love the furry!

[blue neen]

40. In 17 more days we get to re-elect President Obama,

take a few Senate seats from the Republicans, and possibly win a lot of seats in the House.

That's pretty damn exciting. How strange that others see that as a time of dread.

[truedelphi]

85. The dread comes from the fact

That come what may on Nov 6th, we will still have the same basic pro-One Percent economic policy, with the Geithner/Bernanke guys still passing off the wealth of the Middle-incomed to the Fat Cats at Big Financial Firms.

And Kissinger, should he continue to keep his chest cavity beating, may still be an "adviser" to the President.

Dread is also in the fact that many Americans refuse to understand economic matters. Who still view the Occupy movement as something brought about by retro-"dirty-hippy"-ism. Until they themselves happen to be the ones in medical bankruptcy, or they are the ones who were foreclosed on, or they were the ones whose jobs were off shored. Then and only then do they wake up.

Dread also descends at moments like the one where Colbert had a very serious piece on the drone wars and the damage done, and the audience - uncomprehending of what America's number one satirist was saying, was whooping it up and then applauding. They weren't applauding Colbert's genius, but the deaths of innocents. Colbert looked a bit stunned by that.

[ronnie624]

12. Preposterous!

The mere suggestion that the United States of America should have verifiable elections is a product of conspiracy theory!

Who do you think we are, Venezuela?

[undergroundpanther]

17. Sigh

Sometimes I wish here was Venezuela.I can't live in a plutocratic feudal fascist empire. I can't stand this culture it's killing me.

[ronnie624]

23. I would certainly welcome a thousand or so international observers. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

66. Me too.

I feel a bone-deep disgust for my own country lately. The disconnect between our bravado and bragging about "the greatest democracy" and the reality of this corrupt, plutocratic-run system is wearing me down. Add to it the millions of Moron-Americans supporting Republicans like so many chickens rallying for the Colonel and it's just too much to take.

[scheming daemons]

14. "spineless" Democrats fought and got Ohio's early voting restored

... and blocked PA's and WI's voter ID laws blocked for this election.

... and are bringing GOP voter fraud in VA to light.




Quit attacking the good guys, Manny.

[kath]

16. Yeah, some progress has been made against the recent mushrooming of vote suppression via "Voter ID"

laws.
But some people have been kicking and screaming for nearly TWELVE FREAKIN' YEARS about the abomination that is Black Box Voting. And virtually NO ONE in power has cared to listen to them. (except for a handful of "fringe" types (guess I might need the sarcasm smily here) such as Dennis Kucinich, as mentioned in the post below)

[truedelphi]

28. Now, now, now, Kath -

When the Dems first had their big majority in Congress on Jan 20 2007, there were some seriously important things to do. Like hiking the US Postal rates on small businesses, and making sure the Larger Players got discount rates.

How could the Dems possibly take on that important struggle of Postal Rate Rights for the Biggest Companies AND see to it that there was legislation being put in place to make it hard for the Republicans to do voter list purges, or to hamper the hackable electronic machinery monopolizing the vote count in state after state. Do you really expect these Democrats to chew gum and take on Voting Rights issues as well?

[L0oniX]

62. LMFAO

[truedelphi]

87. I am glad I've made you laugh

I think you've been making me laugh more than I can ever return the favor. Were you the one who used to be on "The Well"??

[MannyGoldstein]

18. Good point. It's not like we

lost a presidential election before because of rigged voting In Ohio.

[scheming daemons]

19. what exactly did you want them to do?

[MannyGoldstein]

44. Fix it? Nt

[Zorra]

60. Simply addressing the issue would have been, (would be) at least, refreshing, IMO.

I believe that many progressives are fervently hoping US Attorney General Holder, and the FBI, are investigating these serious problems right now.

If they are not, it is not unreasonable for us to speculate on why this is not a matter of concern for the most powerful law enforcement agencies in our country.

They appear to devote a great deal of time and energy on boogeyman issues like medical marijuana growers and Occupy protesters, and appear to be completely ignoring the extremely serious, literally deadly, problem, of orchestrated institutionalized voter fraud.

It really does not get much more serious than that.

WTF are they doing about it? Every available resource should be in use right now to cage the 1% flying monkeys who are attempting to steal this election.

I believe we deserve an immediate, detailed explanation as to why this issue has apparently, not been, and is not being, addressed.

Is that unreasonable? We've been all over this shit for years, with barely a shred of acknowledgment.

2003: DU Electronic Voting Links Library



I really miss Stephanie.

[Hippo_Tron]

65. The Democrts controlled all of Ohio's state government for 4 years

How about instituting paper ballots hand counted in front of television cameras for the public to watch. They do it in Europe and it works pretty well.

[tinrobot]

21. It's not like we controlled the US Justice Dept in 2004.

We didn't control Ohio's, either.

[truedelphi]

30. However we had a damn majority of Democrats in the House and the Senate

Starting on Jan 20th 2007.

And then by January of 2009, we had a Democratic President to boot.

So please about the excuses, why make them? As a semi retired voting activist, I was there when Andy called my home to tell me Feinstein's staff wouldn't give him the time of day. And Feinstein is very popular - she always gets whatever f__king war and military actions her little hubby needs to keep their 16 million dollar house purchases going. If somebody like Feinstein wanted to have this happen, it would be a done deal. But apparently there is not enough profit in it for her or Richard.

LIKE OTHERS ARE SAYING, IT WAS DENNIS KUCINICH AND DENNIS KUCINICH ALONE AMONG THE CANDIDATES WHO RAN BACK IN 2008 WHO WANTED THE NECESSARY THINGS DONE TO SECURE OUR ELECTIONS.

[Egalitarian Thug]

33. Now, now, It's just astonishing good luck that an upper middle class housewife becomes a

multimillionaire being a public servant earning $150K...

[blue neen]

38. So, you're bashing Democratic Senator Feinstein...

right here on DU, in the final days leading up to the election. That's a clear violation of the TOS, just like previous posters questioning whether the President is a Democrat.

"Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side."

[Egalitarian Thug]

41. No, it's nothing like questioning whether the President is a Democrat. Both she

and the President are unquestionably Democrats. Further, she doesn't stand for reelection until 2014.

Why are you so concerned about her incredible string of good luck?

[blue neen]

51. Why are you so concerned about it?

?

You've already been pretty open with your feelings.

[Egalitarian Thug]

71. 17 more days...

[blue neen]

73. Yep!

17 More Days!

Damn, you can almost smell the Republican desperation, huh? I agree with you...it is rather amusing!

[Le Taz Hot]

46. Except Feinstien isn't up for re-election this year

so there is that.

[blue neen]

52. So, it's okay to bash Democrats on a technicality during election season.

Got it. I'd still consider that part of undermining or suppressing the vote, so there is that.

[Le Taz Hot]

57. I don't consider the U.S. Constitution

to be a "technicality." Additionally, my logical mind is not able to equate one person criticizing one Democrat on a fairly unknown message board with "undermining or suppressing the vote." But that's the trouble with logic -- it's so logical.

[blue neen]

74. The question of technicality was about DU's Terms of Service.

You already know that though, because you are so logical. You had replied to post #37 where I quoted the TOS. Please logically link to where I mentioned the U.S. Constitution. Thanks.

"Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side."

I have to run now...going outside to put up Obama yard signs. What are you doing tonight to get President Obama and other Democrats elected and re-elected?

[truedelphi]

90. Feinstein is never busier than during an election year -

She calls about 90% of the shots as to who she will encourage to run for any California office higher than local dog catcher.

Without her encouragement, you can't run.

With her encouragement, you will get on the ballot and yet might not win. For whatever reason, she is quite willing to put people on the ballot who will not be able to win. Look at what happened when she chose Bustamente and then a few years later, Phil Angelides to run against Schwartzennegger. People in the know politically speaking knew Angelides wouldn't win. But she refused to put Steve Westly in the mix - even though he would have done far better.

But then again, she is tight friends with the George Schultzes.

[treestar]

53. Yep. Some people prefer to judge others rather than lift a finger themselves.

And you can always find at least one flaw if determined to find someone else did something wrong.

[progressivebydesign]

78. thank you!! his point could have been made without trashing the Democrats. nt

[Zorra]

15. Rep. Kucinich: "An open and honest examination of the flaws in electronic voting

will lead us to only one possible conclusion: electronic voting machines are dangerous to democracy
because there is no way of ensuring their accuracy."

[div style="display:inline; background-color:#FFFF66;"][font color="blue" size="size" face="face"]DON'T BLAME ME! I VOTED FOR DENNIS![/font]

[undergroundpanther]

20. And we all know

republicans with corporations OWN the proprietary machines.Since the fascist assholes can't just force us top vote for the dictator crony,they steal the vote to keep the ILLUSION of democracy going as they continue to abuse people.The lower the income you are, the more liberal,less authoritarian,more aware of your rights,the more injured mentally troubled,different and the less male,white and christian and straight you are the more abuse by proxy you get just because you continue to exist.


I can't live like this the country has become a nightmare and there is no waking up,because the right wing delusion has made so many people so selfish,mean,controlling and stupid,they'll drive us into ruin rejoicing..

[iemitsu]

32. And they simply sell the voting machines to one another

as each new candidate gets in line for his or her turn in the Whitehouse.
If it happens again, we will have to occupy the streets of every town in America and we will have to stay in the streets until we get our country back.
The thing about democracy is that it has to be taken. It can't and won't be given.
We have to take it back.
It may seem like time to leave this place (I've considered it too), but its our country and we need to stay and fight.
People win when they won't take no for an answer.

[upi402]

22. Kucinich was not allowed into the nomination debates

Gee golly.
Makes ya wonder WTF is up.

[a2liberal]

24. K&R (n/t)

[Summer Hathaway]

27. Like clockwork.

This train is always on time.

[Raster]

72. There are potential problems with electronic voting. Far more than just...

...Kucinich have said the same thing. Election fraud is not some nebulous concept.

[Summer Hathaway]

76. I wasn't commenting on the problem with voting machines

which we are all well aware of.

I was commenting on the fact the OP's train is always on time.

Take from that what you will.

[Raster]

77. OK then, I am confused...

...and glad that the train is on time.

[Summer Hathaway]

80. Well, the good news is

the train is always on time.

The bad news is the train doesn't really go anywhere.

[Astazia]

35. When I saw this it made perfect sense how that jerk Twitt was so confident about Ohio...

Two words "paper trail". They want to steal this election and this has scared me for awhile! With that voter registration debacle & the voter id. On top of it, all that money, voters being harassed...itit's starting to look like romnesia is no problem.

I an nervous as hell & do not know what will happen to this country if something like stealing this election happens. The more we hear that the race is tightening (regardless if WE believe the numbers or not) the more I worry about the real vote count. Especially Ohio & FL!

We should have paper ballots artists the country like Canada! (and NM nt)

This just smells!! Fucking Repuklicans!

(tried to post to similar thread earlier but when I posted it said thread was deleted so I am glad I saved reply in case the thread returned)

[Ms. Toad]

37. Hart has voting machines in only two (2) counties.

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/Upload/elections/votingsystems.aspx?page=25056

[budkin]

39. This getting coverage in Forbes is huge. MSM media outlets may start to pick it up

I say we keep submitting it to them.

[ProSense]

42. Howard Dean was DNC chair in 2005,

the President was a Republican, and Democrats won the 2006 and 2008 elections.

Not sure that Ken "Dickhead" Blackwell was laughing during those elections.

Still, this is a huge concern, and I'm not sure what you think "spineless Democrats" could have done about private investments?

There are all sorts of laws governing conflicts of interest.

[MannyGoldstein]

43. Howard Dean, Third Way persona non grata,

implemented winning strategies for winning elections. As DNC head, I do not believe that he was responsible for legislation.

This is not about the repeal of Capitalism. It's about the repeal of unverifiable voting.

[ProSense]

47. Then it's possible for the "spineless Democrats" to overcome

shithead Ken Blackwell, who you apparently believe is a relevant person in this election.

[MannyGoldstein]

48. Blackwell is cheering his team

as a retired football coach would.

"Damn, I taught you well!!!"

Thanks to exit polling, Republicans have been able to steal close elections but not Democratic blowouts. That could change.

[ProSense]

84. And you're cheering for your team.

I strongly believe the 2004 election was stolen.

You're talking Blackwell.

Why didn't Republicans steal the 2006 and 2008 elections?

"Thanks to exit polling, Republicans have been able to steal close elections but not Democratic blowouts. That could change."

Yeah, GOTV.

If Democrats are so up on this, why on earth is anyone hedging?

[truedelphi]

88. Here's a synopsis of what it will take

"Slight" change in conscisousness:


http://www.paulchefurka.ca/LadderOfAwareness.html#

[kentuck]

45. Are Democrats naive?

Naw, we don't believe the Republicans would try to steal elections. In 2000 and 2004, those were flukes. We trust the electoral process.

Also, we don't see any need to change the filibuster rule because the next Republican Senate will be different. They will not use that rule to block everything we need to do to get our country back on track. Anyway, they may use against us when they are in the majority?

Spineless?

[truedelphi]

86. The rank and file follower can be quite naive.

For the most part.

However, the leaders of the party are very cynical and very wealthy. And they certainly are doing A-okay.

It must be nice to be in a class of persons whose decisions to economically wipe out the middle class in this nation, while bombing "terrorists" in other nations, comes with huge rewards. (However most people of normal moral character would find they are trading such favors for the ability to sleep at night. )

When SF Chronicle remarked that Di Feinstein's new 16 million dollar home in the Presidio had a view "to die for," all I could think of was the thousands of service people who did die for it, as well as some 900,000 Iraqi civilians.

[spanone]

49. blaming democrats for the smelly shit of republicans....okay.

[MannyGoldstein]

50. Should Lincoln have fired his losing Generals?

After all, it was the Confederacy that was causing the problem.

[ProSense]

58. So Republicans aren't to be blamed?

You're saying the Democrats fucked up the country?

OK!

Not buying your theory, but as long as you still support Democrats, cool!

[MannyGoldstein]

63. No.

The Confederacy was to blame for the Civil War. Lincoln fired his losing Generals because they did not do the job they were supposed to do.

[ProSense]

64. No, you don't support Democrats?

Or no you don't blame Republicans?

[MannyGoldstein]

67. One of us has difficulty with the English language

Hopefully a transient condition.

[ProSense]

83. Yes, the one

who keeps posting this lame question:

"Should Lincoln have fired his losing Generals?"

I mean, is the answer to that question going to prevent you from voting for Obama?

Do you actually believe this a relevant point?

Not a single person going to the polls this November will be remotely concerned with who Obama's "generals" are as it relates to casting her/his vote.

[SidDithers]

54. Obama must be trending higher in the polls...

'cause it's time for Manny to bash Democrats again.

Sid

[CrispyQ]

55. They will try to steal it. It's what you do when your ideas & policies only work for the 1%.

They tried in '08 but O's numbers were too high. I think he won by a lot more than the numbers tell.

This great article by Michael Parenti will make your blood boil. It's a bit dated, but still good info to know.

http://www.michaelparenti.org/stolenelections.html


Also, donate to BradBlog: http://www.bradblog.com/ Donation section is on the front page on the right but you have to scroll down.

[L0oniX]

61. RBInMian jury

Here comes MANNY THE ULTRA BITCHER once again. Please Manny, piss in someone else's Cheerios.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1593816

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Personal attack.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Oct 21, 2012, 01:44 PM, and the Jury voted 5-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: "This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate."

It's all of the above.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: Be glad I don't have ban powers here cause this dude would be TS'd. Blatant violation and disregard of DU rules.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Not the kind of discourse we want here.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given


WTF is with juror 1?

[tblue37]

69. I posted this comment on another thread abotu electronic voting fraud:

I suspect that some powerful and not very liberal Democrats have made a deal not to squawk about the electronic cheating as long as they are protected by those machines from facing viable primary challenges.

[bvar22]

75. Aw Manny,

Elections are too important to leave up to The People.
Besides, the Republicans aren't scheduled to re-take the White House until 2016 as per the Corporate Power Sharing Agreement.

[oxymoron]

79. Seriously, where the fuck is the Justice Department? nt