Afghanistan Near Collapse

[applegrove]

Afghanistan Near Collapse

October 24, 2021 at 3:50 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 88 Comments

https://politicalwire.com/2021/10/24/afghanistan-near-collapse/

"SNIP.....

“Afghanistan will shortly collapse into chaos unless the international community acts rapidly, Swedish and Pakistani ministers warned on Saturday,” CNN reports.

......SNIP"

[Wingus Dingus]

1. Is the Taliban not good at running water treatment plants and

making the trains run? Who knew?

[paleotn]

7. They weren't good at it prior to 9-11. Still not good at it.

Kind of like the dog that caught the car. OK, now what do we do?

[joetheman]

38. Same thing happened in Iraq. The people who knew how to run things were killed or left. nt

[Wingus Dingus]

40. I remember that. And ISIS trying to run parts of Syria didn't work too well either.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Predictable, we were propping it up the last 15 years...

[pwb]

3. Sorry CNN, swing and a miss.

No war for you anymore.

[JohnSJ]

4. Exactly

[zipplewrath]

6. That's not what is being suggested

They suggest direct to individuals economic aide as well as support of NGOs and working around the talisman. They also suggest that world needs to set up conditions for the Taliban to participate on the world stage.

[JI7]

9. The problem is the ideology which is incompatible with a civilized society

Even at the lowest levels of it .

Yes, we can try to help but whoever does will likely be killed and the ideology would not allow that help.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. +100000

Human beings who want to help will lose their lives. They won't accept it.

They want 'money' and 'inclusion in the global economy' without basic human rights for all citizens.

[lindysalsagal]

17. Right. We all think sending more money in will help regular people.

Sorry. I'm not buyin'.

[zipplewrath]

24. Okay, but...

That's different from accusing CNN from wanting more war. I understand, throwing money at a confused situation isn't necessarily a good thing, but neither is withholding it across the board. Anyone, any entity that can demonstrate the ability to avoid a humanitarian crisis must be heard. Blanket rejections of their offers don't help.

[lindysalsagal]

28. Exactly what I'm offering: no help.

Just like their arab neighbors.

[zipplewrath]

31. So that's your standard for behavior?

Moral standards are based upon what YOU can do, not what other people can do. If we can help in a humanitarian crisis, we should. It isn't always easy to know what that is. Aid groups that go into countries with disasters have to do very specific evaluations of what money they should spend IN country (and potentially cause inflation and shortages) and what they should bring in from outside (but not cause the collapse of local markets and suppliers). Yes, the Taliban should be circumvented at every opportunity. But people should be helped at every opportunity as well.

[lindysalsagal]

36. I don't want to play.

[zipplewrath]

41. Fine but...

Afghan civilians that have nothing to do with the Taliban will die in great numbers due to starvation and abuse in the mean time.

[meadowlander]

37. LOL. Eat your green infrastructure first, and then you can have your bombs through chimneys.

[Thomas Hurt]

5. Part of the Pig's legacy, of course the christofascist will try and blame this on Biden.

[JI7]

11. Yes, but in this case the blame really is with Islamic fundamentalists

[Bucky]

32. I agree with Mark Milley, the Afghan end-state wasn't significantly altered by US policy

This cluster isn't even Trump's legacy. He essentially entered hand-off talks with the Taliban indistinguishable from Biden's policies.

It's Dubya's legacy. We had a comparatively small window (maybe 3 years) in which to install a reasonable moderate (by Afghan standards) regime that could manage the infrastructure and aid needed to put the country into a stable state. Bush instead threw most of the Afghan resources into the Iraq distraction. The resulting negligence allowed the Taliban to rebuild and dig in.

This country was never going to look like the elite Kabul region did in the 1970s -- But a gradual and peaceful easing of women's social status, if done through the established regional clans and leadership elite was possible. It would've taken a LOT of bribery and ignoring a LOT a corruption, but a less violent path was possible 18 years ago. The October 2001 invasion was a teachable moment. But we blew it. Bush blew it.

[cadoman]

8. "collapse" meaning no Western nation will be running a puppet government there?

Look, I know there are piles of natural resources there, and seemingly good amounts of people that could be imported as and/or converted to slaves to extract those resources, and it'd be great to protect the opioid industry from Taliban interference, but maybe for once in our nation's history we should take the high road and let the Afghans run Afghanistan? Tell the billionaires to fuck off? It's a core reason the nation put the Democratic party in charge to begin with.

[JI7]

12. The way I see it is that if we could help we should. But 2 decades is more than

enough proof we can't. And too many muslims use it to blame "the west" instead of admitting Islamic extremism is the problem.

[JI7]

10. Maybe they need to pray some more. And Pakistanis are still cheering

on the Taliban "victory" in Afghanistan.

[lindysalsagal]

18. Where the eff is their god, anyway??? Why doesn't he ever help????

[Bucky]

33. They see him real clearly

His hand helped drive out the Americans, as it did the Soviets and British before. God quite demonstrably loves and protects their land for them as a reward, presumedly, for living by their version of Shariya law and keeping the corrupting beauty of their women away from the weak eyes of the men. God drove out the infidels in a week. Do you seriously need more proof?

[maxsolomon]

13. Pakistan should take immediate action

they broke it; they bought it.

[orwell]

15. Couldn't agree more...

...you break, you take.

Enjoy your "nation building"...

[Ritabert]

14. Let the Muslim nations in the area step in

Pakistan hid the Taliban. Let them and Turkey, Turkmenistan, Iran, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan chip in.

[marie999]

16. Afghanistan is a country in name only except when it is invaded.

If no one attacks it then it is just a bunch of tribes who hate each other.

[Delphinus]

23. I think

you might be right.

Now if they would let people leave who want to, that would be good.

[harumph]

19. I'm going to say something that I know is cruel.

Let it collapse. Let the immediate surrounding countries step in or face
millions of refugees. Namely, China and Pakistan. Pakistan has played us for a fool many many years.
In Afghanistan and elsewhere in this world
cruelty is a fait accompli. It's going to get a lot worse in the next 20 years with climate change and
The wealthy in our country have no intention
of stepping up to plate. It's going to be a fucking mess for everyone so get ready or give up.

[GoCubsGo]

20. It's not about to "collapse."

It's about to revert to what it was prior to decades of Western interference: A collection of tribes, who often don't get along with each other, surrounded by a bunch of countries.

[dalton99a]

21. Let Afghanistan be Afghanistan

A land where different tribes live.

Let them figure it out

[zipplewrath]

25. So let them kill each other

Especially women and children who behave in such ridiculous manners such as learning to read and write. There are organizations that are attempting to make things better. Not governments, not even intelligence agencies. But Afghans and other NGO's that deserve support, even if you don't like the Taliban.

[roamer65]

22. Let Chinese RMB do the bailout.

The Chinese can have both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

They already have Pakistani PM Imran Khan in their hip pocket.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. China and Pakistan

Have to figure this one out.

[Goodheart]

29. No aid, military or otherwise, to Afghanistan!

People will suffer, no doubt, and I feel bad for that.... BUT

MORE will suffer in the long term if we relieve the Taliban of economic pressure and social unrest. It's time for Afghans to rise up on their own accord.

[Xolodno]

30. Apparently the Taliban never heard...

..."be careful what you ask for, you just might get it".

They will eventually get bailed out, but not after making serious concessions to China and Russia for its mineral wealth. They fear ISIS just as much as anyone else and that group will slaughter them as well. They don't play by any rules.

They want international recognition, but don't want to change their ways. It doesn't work that way. And I'm certain that a lot of smarter Afghans bailed on the country during the withdrawal or prior, creating a huge brain drain.

[twin_ghost]

34. Maybe we Should send 100,000 troops there and give them $2 trillion dollars?

[BannonsLiver]

35. I'll add that to the list of things that aren't my problem, but wish weren't problems for anyone.

[FakeNoose]

39. Are the Taliban/Afghans even asking us for help?

I haven't heard that they want our help. Nor should we feel we need to give it to them.