For the longest time, I have said that the working class republican truly believes that some day

[CTyankee]

they, too, will be rich and that's why they let the rich off the hook for taxes that they should pay.

They ENVY the very rich to the point of near worship. They deeply DISRESPECT the working poor, especially if they are black because they haven't worked hard and built a business like the poor white guy.

Some have come around to the need for universal health care when they have a child who needs health care that they can't afford. If we Dems could get them to expand their idea of what role government can play in all our lives and to the end of our lives, we would be so much better off. All of us.

[Diamond_Dog]

1. I often hear this argument from Conservatives....

“Billionaire Bob EARNED all his money from hard work! Shouldn’t he be allowed to keep it instead of being forced by the government to give it away to lazy people who won’t work?”

That “welfare queen” trope that Reagan perpetuated sure became ingrained in their brains.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

2. In my experience

I know more Republicans on public aid than Democrats.

[Thomas Hurt]

4. Bob took advantage of our freedoms and the protections of this country to get what he earned...

not just hard work, he should pay more taxes to keep his affluence.

[Diamond_Dog]

5. Good infrastructure benefits everyone.

As do good schools and a healthy population.

But they only can think of what’s in it for them. Because everything is a zero sum game.

[CTyankee]

7. "perpetuated" is so right! He didn't invent it but he knew it would work with "his" people.

And it sure did, until at least SOME people caught on to what he was doing.

We seem to go through this thing in cycles. Reagan was a long time ago, so the Right has to fire it up again ever so often to remind some people why they look down on poor people.

[SergeStorms]

26. Everyone who lives in a red state gets welfare.

They get back far more in taxes than they ever pay into the federal government. If it weren't for blue states there wouldn't be red states.

They don't see this as "welfare" though. They believe this money is owed to them. Talk about an entitlement attitude!

I suggest we pass legislation that would limit any state's federal aid to 130% of what they pay in. 😁 These red state assholes want to complain about everything, let's give them something to really complain about!

[Johnny2X2X]

3. And they don't understand what rich is

I can't even count the number of times I've heard some college grad Republican say that they're easily in the 1% when I know for a fact they're barely making 6 figures. It takes nearly $550K a year right now to be in the 1%. Middle managers at a corporation making $140K a year are doing well, but they're not even close to busting into the 1%.

I've been around real wealth, I don't think the average person gets how rich really rich is and what that means for their lifestyles. The system truly is rigged for the very wealthy, they can't lose.

My wife and I barely qualify as top 10% and we still struggle with bills at times and we're better off than 90% of the rest of the country. Think about that, we don't have a ton of security, but we still are doing better than 9 out of 10 other families. You've got 2/3s of the country living hand to mouth, it's not sustainable.

[fescuerescue]

8. There's no one definition of 1% form what I can tell

Some people define it by income (such as your post)

Other define it by wealth.

It also depends on the area.

Earning $500k in NYC isn't that big of a deal. Basically middle class.

Earning $500k in Alabama is.

[Johnny2X2X]

10. But there's a definite attempt to expand the definition by Cons

"You see, you're who they want to tax, you're one of the makers, one of us."

I appreciate Biden being very clear about his tax plans, $400,000.

[fescuerescue]

12. well sure. Politics is all about redefining old words

to fit the agenda.

That's not a new trick.

[uponit7771]

14. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 Too many Trump voters think someone wants their trailer ....

..."...the average person gets how rich really rich is.."

This too !!!!

A lot of people think their Cessna 152 is the average price of a biz jet !!!

People in America (mostly rural America) have NO idea how much middle class cost in their own town

[FakeNoose]

18. The 1% for the most part are born into wealth

Other than a few lucky rock stars, pro athletes, movie stars, etc. - and we will never fit that description - the huge wealth accumulators (i.e. the one-per-centers) were born into wealthy American families. They went to the right schools, cultivated the right friends, made the right connections, and built their stock portfolios (and other properties) during the rah-rah bull years. They've employed lawyers and accountants to bury their assets in offshore accounts, and otherwise invest wisely for tax avoidance wherever possible.

None of us will ever get a sniff at that wealth because they aren't sharing it with anyone.

There have been a few exceptions like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos who were born poor and used their brilliance to build up their own empires. However most of those doors are closed to the next generation in this country. There won't be another time like the 70's and 80's when a few babyboomers were able to grab the brass ring and hold on.

Luckily in the US, many Americans can still get by, at least married couples with 2 incomes can still afford to buy a home and send their kids to school. When that becomes impossible, and it could happen soon, we'll have another revolution because the next generation won't put up with the income disparity we're seeing now.

So I'm agreeing with your last statement: the way things are right now is not sustainable.

[Johnny2X2X]

19. Social mobility has fallen in the US dramatically

The land of opportunity has never offered such little opportunity as it does right now.

The % of Americans who will make more than their parents is below 50% now, it was close to 90% after WWII. it was still 70% in the 70s.

[FakeNoose]

21. Exactly right

My parents were married in 1950 and they birthed, raised and educated a family of 9 children. My sibs and I (the next generation) have each raised one or 2 kids, but we're mostly retired and doing OK. Our kids' generation are only having 1 child, some aren't even getting married. I can hardly project the grandchildren's future, it's going to take a miracle for them to get by.

In my family we're doing everything by-the-book, and in 4 generations we're definitely downward mobile.

[Johnny2X2X]

25. 9 kids, wow

I had a close friend growing up who was 1 of 10. The family lived fine on a factory worker's income, plus the mother worked part time in our school. Today 9 kids means poverty and GoFundme pages for some of the basics.

And that's a huge problem too, we need more kids / eventual workers to fund the social programs we'll all be relying on in old age. People cannot afford big families anymore.

I was having a debate with a good friend I've known since high school when we worked in restaurants together. He was arguing against a living wage, said those jobs are just to start and people need to gather skills to move up. This was the late 80s and early 90s, so I countered with, "yeah, but you do know we worked with people at that restaurant who lived off their income from being a line cook right?" There were people making $7 something an hour there who could afford apartments and used cars just working that 1 job. And this wasn't 1975, this was 1990. $7 an hour in 1990 is like $14 an hour today.

The fact is people working any job should be able to afford the basics. Doesn't mean live a glamorous life, just be able to afford to live. Why do people forget that's what we used to have?

[CTyankee]

27. We might also have benefitted from bequests. Altho my family was far from rich, my mother had

a financial planner, a very good guy, to invest the money she had, mostly into bond funds. I inherited all of it when my brother quite suddenly passed away while my mother was still alive. So when she died I had her estate. I earmarked a portion of it to cover my passion for art and traveled to Europe several times. I was uninterested in luxury cruises and found Road Scholar, a travel company for people like me. It was the best investment of money I could ever hope for!

My husband had inherited land and a house in a rural area of Wisconsin that has soared in value. His half that he shared with his sister, was worth more than we had imagined. He was also (before he retired) working for state and local agencies, covered by union contracts and his pension has also soared in worth.

I feel very fortunate indeed.

[Johnny2X2X]

28. Inherited wealth is sustaining for generations

That's why Red Lining after WWII and beyond was so devastating to black Americans. My grandfather fought in WWII, he got home and was able to get a GI loan for the home he raised my father in. We ended up buying that home from my grandmother when my grand father died. So I very much benefitted from what my grandfather took advantage of after WWII. It meant I grew up in a stable and safe neighborhood. If my grand father had been black, he might have been forced to raise his family in low rent housing complexes because Red Lining prevented black vets from buying houses, I may not have had the stability that inherited house gave to me. It meant my parents retired debt free and sold the family home and bought a condo. It means that they didn't have to move into one of their kid's homes in retirement, they will be self sufficient for many years in retirement.

The wealth can mean debt free school for some, a head start on life for the next generation. All of it means a much better chance to have more to pass down to future family generations.

But that is one thing, the generational wealth the 1% are passing along ensures dynasties, it ensures that their children cannot fail. You see it in dynastic families who let their inept kids run their huge companies into the ground.

[sanatanadharma]

6. "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous", Reagan era TV

The Reagan era TV show, "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" began in 1984.
For a decade TV idolized and propagandized the extravagantly excessive lifestyles of wealth.
Everyone was sold the possibility of "champagne wishes and caviar dreams."

Celebrity-worship does not teach, train, or develop any higher thinking skills.

[llmart]

13. Also, shows like "Dallas".

I remember people thinking that if you lived in Dallas you were "rich". I know someone who had a two-year degree who moved there thinking he'd get rich. That's also the era when wearing name-brand designer clothes was all the rage. The designers were the only ones who got rich off the rubes who wore the clothing.

[wiggs]

9. The 'American Dream' of mid century went from being a house, kids, BBQ, and an education with

one working parent...to....lifestyles of the rich and famous, starting with the 80s 'me' generation.

Also: Not an accident...marketing and propaganda work.

[Johnny2X2X]

16. And in the process the dream of the middle class was forgotten

My dad was a skilled worker in the auto industry starting in the 70s. Today he and my mother are retired comfortably in a paid for condo with enough pension income to not want for anything. Me? I went to college, got an engineering degree, went back, got a Masters. I'm doing just fine, have a home I can afford, have 2 cars and some savings, have a retirement which is doing OK, I won't be destitute. But I kind of am taken aback when I think about it, I will never do as well as my father did, I will not retire as comfortably as he was able to. And I'm one of the lucky ones, I was able to finish school and get a useful degree.

The rich took all of the gains. Workers had their lives taken away by the rich. White collar / middle management types like me now need advanced degrees to be middle class in the way our parents were middle class.

I said it in another thread, my household income is barely top 10%, and I feel like I'm doing well, but then I think that 60% of the country used to have this lifestyle and now 90% of the country aren't doing as well as us, and we're not wealthy by any measure, we simply have a few months buffer where as most of the rest of the country has none. This is not sustainable, you can't have a society where the majority of people are desperate all the time and living on the edge.

Practically everyone I knew growing up in a very diverse neighborhood had middle class things, that stability. Now when I think where I am and realize 9 in 10 Americans aren't doing as well as I am, it just is stunning. I am not living some fancy life, I have the basics that everyone in the US should have if they work hard. That was the promise of America, that was the dream that has been forgotten. Work hard and you could have a good life. Get an education and work hard and you could have a great life.

[prodigitalson]

11. Calvinism and protestant "work ethic"

A lot of the early settlers of what would become the US were religious nuts who European kingdoms wanted out of their hair.

The idea of an 'elect' or people chosen by god for salvation could be spotted by their success (material wealth) was a central tenant of their worldview - along with the corallary that the poor are sinful and not among the 'elect'.

[Johnny2X2X]

17. I live in West Michigan

Calvinism permeates every institution in our area. The simple belief that rich people are rich because they are virtuous and god favors them and poor people are poor because they are sinners. It's a circular argument to them too, it excuses all sorts of dishonesty and treachery because if you're rich, you must be virtuous. It's how greed has become a virtue to the Religious Right.

[sanatanadharma]

20. Calvinism is essentially a social class caste system

If the principle is good enough for Christians, then no aspersions may be caste upon others' systems of caste.

The imprimatur of god is upon the upper-crust caste silver-spoon incarnations; the takers of the makers' value and wealth.

A God of personal desires, preferences, favoring the few over the many is manifestly not god.
No good can come from such immoral theologies.
A religion of greed is the front door to hell.

[ForgedCrank]

15. And this is exactly why

we need to work as hard as we can to keep them from regaining any power or control.
They are a dangerous bunch who will squash anyone and everyone to get their way.

[wryter2000]

22. Agreed, and...

They'd be on the way to being rich if the government would stop taxing them to feed lazy black and brown people who have huge families.

[TlalocW]

23. It's one of the right's greatest victories

That they've been able to drive a wedge in between non-rich Whites and every other race at the same economic level. "You could be rich like us if it weren't for Black welfare queens, Mexicans taking you jobs, Asians taking your kids' spots in college, etc." when so many of their economic and other goals line up so perfectly.

TlalocW

[IronLionZion]

24. Some of them like unions for resisting vaccine mandates and for police

so they see some benefits in collective bargaining.

[Mr. Ected]

29. I don't necessarily ascribe to this theory

Perhaps for some republicans, but mostly I think the typical working class republican has been brainwashed for so long that liberals and Democrats are their mortal enemies, which induces in them a Pavlov's dog type of reaction whenever they consider Democratic proposals and policies. They're not as much AGAINST billionaires being taxed as they are AGAINST the Democrats who propose it. For them, it's been reduced to a binary equation and they don't even have to consider the arguments; it's going to be "no" if we stand for it.

[CTyankee]

30. Yes, not to put too fine a point on it.

I tend to overthink this subject and I welcome thoughts from people seeing a different view.